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HOMER
10-31-2003, 07:01 AM
Well .......... I have to concede, the Exmark is going to have to be my next machine.

I have one on the trailer right now, I demo'd a 27-60 Lazer yesterday and I get to keep it till lunch today. I fell in love with it yesterday on the lawns that I cut. It has the mulch kit installed and I got to experience the "turns leaves to dust"----"makes leaves disappear" capabilities. The machine is tight as it can be, turns are very predictable and quick. The 27 Kohler had more than enough power for what I had it in.......today I will finish the demo out on my yard.

I was impressed to say the least. What was also amazing was that I didn't get nearly as dirty with the mulch kit being on there as I was with my mower. I was expecting blowout from it but there was none. Everything I ran over it gobbled up. Pine straw was one thing that I had to slow down over but it even took it down to a small enough size that would have been acceptable to all of my customers.

I could mow the lawns I was in so much faster than I could with my mower and faster by far than my bagging machine, with the same results. I've heard all the hype, read it on here, and now I have to agree that they are bad azz machines.

In all farness to other mowers out there ----I haven't demo'd them,but I know this dealer, he's right here in town. He's exclusively an Exmark dealer and it makes no sense for me to go anywhere else.

When I'm ready.....it'll be Exmark.

Sorry Eric:rolleyes:

MOW ED
10-31-2003, 07:20 AM
I know you will get lots of replies to this one Homer because of the allegiance you "had" to the other mower that will be leaving the trailer.
I too ran more than a few demos on mowers this season. I was very impressed with the Exmarks quality of cut. I had one for a while in the spring. As you may or may not know I am a Walker fan and probably will always be just because it has made me a good chunk of change over the years. I know a big Z can be useful in my business and if I decide to expand next season then there will be more evaluations.
I rate the Exmark at the top but now Toro comes out with the new design and I have to give that a try in the spring. It seems that every year there are more and more improvments made to our benefit. I guess those guys that make them are reading these posts.
I know you will like the Exmark, Good Luck.

John Gamba
10-31-2003, 07:21 AM
IT'S NO BULL. Homer sounds like you got a winner there.
John

HOMER
10-31-2003, 07:39 AM
I know that anytime you get off a 4 yr old mower and get on a new one your gonna be impressed. The equipment I have right now has been good to me, can't complain about it. My point is: I could demo anything at this point and probably think it was the greatest thing out there.......but all those dealers are 25-30-50 miles away. I probably will demo some more before I shell out the big money, not that I need to, more that at my age I need to experience things and not let emotions take over.

BUT RIGHT NOW I'M IN LUVVVVVVVVVVV:blob3:

65hoss
10-31-2003, 08:48 AM
I fell out of my chair.














Glad you liked the machine. I'm on my second Lazer and neither of them have ever given me any problems.

lawn perfection
10-31-2003, 10:33 AM
You won't be sorry.

Runner
10-31-2003, 10:45 AM
What are you running right now, Homer?

TLS
10-31-2003, 10:57 AM
HOMER,

Welcome to the "Previous Dixie Chopper owners that realized Lazers are better Association of America"

Its a growing group, and we'll be happy to have you join our exclusive club.

davesgs75
10-31-2003, 11:37 AM
Great to hear Homer.

I picked up my new Lazer Z hp Last week, An I am so impressed with it. what a machine..

:blob3:

HOMER
10-31-2003, 12:03 PM
I currently run a 50" Chopper, a 72" Chopper and a 48" Scag, all of these have their own good points but overall the Exmark......previously known as Axemark....seems to have everything rolled into one machine.

I must say after posting this I put it to use in my own yard. I was enjoying the early morning mowing.....and testing it's ability to mow heavy dew situations......when suddenly a spring broke and the mule drive belt came off:angry: 3.1 hours on the mowchine and it has to happen to me! Took it back to the dealer and he fixed it but I didn't have time to get it back to him before he needed it for a show so I left it with them. He said that was a rare occurence:confused: and I believed him.

Personally..............I liked a lot about the machine and the mulch kit works great for leaves but..................I'm so used to having the OCDC that I would have to have one on this mower for MY conditions. The roll bar would have to go.......I got slapped by an angry limb yesterday and it made me cuss.:angel:

Overall I still want it........the price he quoted for a 27-60, the one I was on, was $8800.00........he gave me another price for a 23-60 minus the roll bar for 8250.00 tax taters and all. Having made too many snap decisions in my day that were costly, I'm going to have to think about it for a while, mulch kit or no mulch kit.......freebie ends today When I get back on my old mowers I'll probably change my mind but I have to remember.............them things are PAID FORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

How's that price anyway?

John Gamba
10-31-2003, 12:50 PM
Heres your OCDC.
John

Tider6972
10-31-2003, 12:55 PM
are you dealing with Advance?

Here in Montgomery I was offered the same 2004 Lazer 27-60
w/ mulch kit for $8000 beginning of September, JFY Info.

PM me for dealer, if interested. I am not connected with them in any way, have never even bought from them, only talked to them: general mgr, salesman, parts men, and 2-3 mechanics...
seem like good folks, I'm prolly gonna use them when I buy.

G-father
10-31-2003, 09:00 PM
Homer - I got a price of 8650 for a 2004 27hp lc kaw with a roll bar. I also got a price of 7750 for a 2004 27hp kol with a roll bar. I would keep looking if I were you. (both with 60 in cut)

cblackwe
11-01-2003, 02:06 PM
Nobody said it so I will....
Demo'd the new Toro Z500 last week. It IS an Exmark... Cost is less too since they have the new deck there is a promo model w/ a 23 Kohler available for under 7K here locally.....It is the one I demo'd and didn't bog at all in heavy growth grass or on slopes of retention basin!! I'm gonna buy one. Why pay extra $$ for extra hp when a 23 will do?? And like I said, the Toro IS an Exmark with only minor/cosmestic differences.

TLS
11-01-2003, 02:53 PM
cblackwe,

Sounds like a nice machine, and if your happy with the power, then more power to ya (pun intended!) :D

Here is a torque chart. At the low end is the engine your thinking about buying. While this chart doesn't have the 27hp Kohler (42.7ft.lbs) or the 28hp Kohler (44 ft.lbs), as you can see, the 23 is not really in the same class.

http://www.scag.com/images/enginetorquechart.gif

I HAD a 25hp Kohler (shown) and I HAVE the 27hp LC Kawi (shown) and while both mow grass well with a 60" deck. Never would I consider either to have EXTRA power. I could always use more.

But then again, your happy, and this is why they make engine choice an option.

Good Luck

CNYScapes
11-01-2003, 05:57 PM
It definitely is nice to have the extra power when you need it, but I have lazers with both kohler 25s and 23s. Price aside I you would always have to take more horsepower, but my 23s have made me an awful lot of money. The only difference is you might have to slow down a little once in a while when in tall, wet stuff. Im sure you will be happy with either one you choose.

cblackwe
11-01-2003, 09:16 PM
TLS,

How does the Gator-Rator work w/ the Lazer. I guess I could expect the similar performance w/ the Toro??? Do you have the extensions that bring it out to 52 or 54"???? Just curious about how well it did during the fall aerating season???:D

David Haggerty
11-02-2003, 02:25 AM
Homer;
If you havn't seen it I think you should look at the new deck that Toro has developed for that machine.
http://www.toro.com/professional/lce/zmaster/z500/z500Flash/index.html

Dave

goodbeus
11-02-2003, 03:41 AM
Can't wait to get my first Z...prolly some time next year...right now, my main mower is a 52" Exmark Viking that is 9 years old...still runs great(16" v-twin Vangaurd), but looking forward to retiring it:D

Southpaw
11-02-2003, 03:51 AM
My wife was the acct. for a large LCO for several years. They used Dixies, Scags, and eXmarks. She would often sit with the crews after a long day and listen to their comments. Now that we have started our own business, this is what she gathered from their comments and the paperwork she had to do.

Dixies: Fast and effecient, lots of downtime and costs in repair.
Scags: Beat them to death and they keep running, just not a favorite of most of the guys.
eXmarks: Not many if any complaints from the crews, often arguing who was going to use the Lazer Z's today.

I haven't done all my shopping around yet. I've demoed at the Toro/Scag dealer, checked out a Tank but still have not been to the exmark dealers around here yet. My nearest two dealers are about 30 miles away each. But with the great advice on this forum, I would be a fool not to give them very serious consideration before my next purchase. I think I have already made up my mind anyway based on their comments as well as all of your posts. Thanks for the advice!

GarPA
11-02-2003, 05:45 AM
I swear in my area there is an Exmark Z on 75% of all the trailers...used to be, the Orange ones were on most of the trailers....I;m still amazed how nice they cut, even with not-so-sharp blades

What a money maker my 52 is and it can handle grandma's small property with obstacles as well as the big open commercial props....

GreenQuest Lawn
11-02-2003, 10:37 AM
WOW Homer!!!!!


Welcome to the Exmark family.:blob1: :blob4:

HOMER
11-02-2003, 10:56 AM
I think I will check out the Toro, there is a great dealer that sells Scags also.

Sounds like there are some cheaper prices being thrown around too. Why mine has to be the highest is a mystery to me. I paid a hefty amount for both the Choppers and price will be an issue this time around.

My problem is there are.......all within 30 minutes of me..........a Toro/Scag/Grasshopper dealer, a Walker, Ferris, and Hustler dealer, of course the Exmark dealer, a John Deere dealer, a Kubota dealer, a Bunton/Snapper dealer.......even a Cub dealer...........I got options a plenty:blob3:

Most of these dealerships are top notch. I own a Scag and have had great service out of it, still use it. There are cheaper (less expensive) mowers on the market than the one I demo'd that will serve me just as well. Either of these dealers will support they're sale.

Again, I really liked the Exmark but this purchase will be done at a slower pace than the last ones and I will demo till I'm blue in the face.

Price isn't always the determinig factor but____ I'm not paying top dollar when the equipment that's out there today is so close in quality and the dealer support is there to back it up..........why spend an extra grand when I can get the same package with a different color?

Lawn Tek
11-02-2003, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by TLS
HOMER,

Welcome to the "Previous Dixie Chopper owners that realized Lazers are better Association of America"

Its a growing group, and we'll be happy to have you join our exclusive club.

And thier machines will preform as advertised , unlike other manufactures who put out new machines that skip grass between the outer and inner spindles , then tell the customers to fix it themselves .

And Exmark will honor a warranty at all of their dealers .

Other companys talk about support , Exmark delivers

Lawnworks
11-02-2003, 03:49 PM
Dixies: Fast and effecient, lots of downtime and costs in repair.
Scags: Beat them to death and they keep running, just not a favorite of most of the guys.
eXmarks: Not many if any complaints from the crews, often arguing who was going to use the Lazer Z's today.


I disagree with the Dixie comment. Lots of downtime? That is not true. Exmarks are awesome mowers. I think Scags are a little more troublesome. What about Hustlers? 15mph and lifetime warranty on their deck!!

John Gamba
11-02-2003, 06:12 PM
Originally posted by Lawnworks
I disagree with the Dixie comment. Lots of downtime? That is not true. Exmarks are awesome mowers. I think Scags are a little more troublesome. What about Hustlers? 15mph and lifetime warranty on their deck!!

On the OUTER EGDE of there deck.

Mark P
11-02-2003, 08:40 PM
:) Homer im like you My dealer gave me a price on a 2004 Toro 52" 27HP Kohler for 8779.00 with nothing but the mower, My exmark dealer is about the same don't offer any extras, maybe a hat. Must be nice to live where you can get a fair price for a new exmark or Z-master...I know a 27 with 60" Deck would be over 9-K. I demoed the new Toro with the 28hp EFI, Deluxe seat and that new Tubroforce deck and it cut great, i didn't get any pic's of the underside of the deck but the picture of the exmark and the new Toro's look just alike Toro's deck just has that nice adjustment feature on it and its nice.........Marks Mowing Service

G-father
11-02-2003, 08:51 PM
Mark the prices I got were from Indiana!! If you are unhappy with the prices/extras you are getting from your dealer just do some calling.

Mark P
11-02-2003, 09:04 PM
:) G-father im right on the Ohio River did you get those prices in northern IN or near INDY? Heck id still drive 300 miles to save 2 grand, Im a machinest and do most of the work on all my equipment, Please let me know...Mark's Mowing Service

G-father
11-02-2003, 09:18 PM
Mark you have a pm...

Fine Lines Lawn
11-02-2003, 09:23 PM
I fell out of my chair too!

TMlawncare
11-02-2003, 09:39 PM
Homer, how great was it to be out mowing without 3 inches of grass and debris around your ankles and in your face. Thats what amazed me about exmark, great cut and very little blow out. Dixie, great cut usually (occasional streaking) and tons of blowout. If you have never used a dixie you don't know what blowout really is.

TLS
11-03-2003, 12:07 AM
Think how bad the DC blowout would be if it DIDN'T have the big foot platform! The blowout is bad on them, however the foot platform deflects a LOT of it.

Warranty Schmarranty. Warranties only protect YOU from DEFECTS IN MATERIALS AND WORKMANSHIP. Banging your deck into the side of a pole and tweaking it is NOT a defect, and the factory will not warranty something YOU did to it. Same with lifetime warranties on FRAMES. If it didn't break in the first season, and a few years later it breaks, YOU BROKE IT. The factory didn't mess it up when they built it.

This is how I get when people start bragging about lifetime warranties. Its usually something that cant/usually doesn't break. Kinda like the DC Stainless Steel rust through warranty! :rolleyes:

TMlawncare
11-04-2003, 12:10 AM
Thats a great point. I never really thought about how much that big foot platform deflects the debris. I continue to be amazed that after mowing two lawns I go to get off the mower and when I look at the foot platform you can see a 3 inch impression of where my feet were. From the top of the deck to the bottom of the foot platform will be completly full. When you mow across some leaves you can see them fly 5 feet in front of you and blow up shoulder high. I am not kidding I am covered everytime I use my 2002 dixie. I just got through installing the new anti blowout baffles and the new nose cone (suppose to help with the streaking problem). Hope it helps out some................!!!!

GarPA
11-04-2003, 05:41 AM
sounds like they have a significant design problem

TMlawncare
11-05-2003, 12:26 AM
Dixie has been having a problem with the new silver decks leaving a strip of uncut grass between the center spindle and the spindle on the discharge side of the deck. They have their R&D department looking into it. So far they have came up with a new nose cone that installs in the front of the deck. The blow out problem is the worst I have ever seen. They came out with some new baffles that I just installed but they say you can't run them in wet or tall grass. So I guess using them in the spring is out. Hope the R&D continues.

HOMER
11-05-2003, 07:32 AM
Yep.........after riding the Exmark I realize how bad the blowout really is on the Dixie.

Had an opportunity to demo the new Toro the other day. I didn't get into any tall grass so I missed out on the true performance of the deck. It didn't leave me with the same impression that the Exmark did for some reason. I'm almost thinking the deck wasn't pitched right because it was missing some of the grass that it should have been getting. It also had the 23 Kohler that I was told had plenty of power but even in the short stuff I was cutting I could tell when I turned around and headed back in the opposite direction that it bogged down. When I got into a thicker patch of grass it bogged as well.

Just didn't impress me as much.....next demo will be the Scag Turf Tiger.

floridalawncare
11-05-2003, 04:49 PM
you're on the right track homer. you've demoed a lazer, now demo another machine. the tiger is another good machine. in fact it's got the best bearings on the market. find me another mower with all tapered rollers, even in the front wheels! exmark has good spindles too, but i question them not having any grease fittings on them. look at all the tie rods, linkages, controls, etc. take the time to see witch one is built the heaviest. don't let dealers con you with just mere blade speed either. a good baffle system will out cut the highest blade speeds any day. i ran grass hoppers with 198 mph blades, dixie with over 200 mph, and scags 186 mph. to my surprise the scag out cut both. and when the heavy grass came, the extra torque from the slower ratio blew by the 25 hp kohler hopper and the 27 hp dixie. in fact a friend of mine with 25 hp 60" tiger cut cleaner and stronger than my 52" hopper with the same engine. he'd pass me up in the heavy grass leaving far less to no uncut pieces. higher blade speed will also shorten spindle bearing life. so take the time to look at them all. and remember that each dealer wants his comission, no matter what he sales. try to determine witch will be serviced the easieast. just don't rush. take the time to make a good decision. and good luck!

Lawnworks
11-05-2003, 09:29 PM
My chopper leaf blowout was pretty bad, but I just found out I can loosen a couple bolts and pull the baffles down. Big difference!! Not much blowout now. In the summer I never even thought about blowout. I think they are raised like that so mowing at 15 mph is possible. Exmarks are great machines, but I just don't think they are as efficient and smooth as Dixies. I think they are a great machine to run on crews, but w/o my Dixie I could not cut 20 yards a day.

TMlawncare
11-18-2003, 11:44 PM
Oh yes adjustable dixie baffles. I run them in the lowest position it helps a little. The problem is that there is no baffle for the center of the deck, behind the anti scalp roller. I was even more amazed that the new nose cone is not adjustable so you still have tremendous amounts of blow out. P.S. installed anti blowout baffle the new ones for leaves and dry conditions. They hep a little. Problem is just like before it blows right under that center anti scalp roller were there is no baffling. THAT BAFFLES ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Doster's L & L
11-19-2003, 12:54 AM
This Spring i paid $9K for my 28hpefi Kohler 60" Lazer with no options other than the good seat, and it has been well worth it. No down time + no $ spent on repairs = money i made. When i had my '98WOODS, there was one day in particular that i went to my dealership 3 times to fix the P.O.S. 80min round trip each. Will most likely never will have another. I LUV my Lazer.