Low Baller

[River Hill]

I had a conversation the other day with a Lawn Care professional, and he told me I was Low Balling and I took 2 of his customers at the beginning of the year. I just blew it off because I think he was jealous of my opearation, but he got me thinking. Let me give you some background. I am a part-timer and do all my cutting in Maryland. I cut no more than 20 hours a week and average between $75.00 and $90.00 per hour. I work by myself most of the time, however I did have my brother help me some this summer. I feel with the prices I charge, I am fair. I pay taxes, have insurance, and do the best job I can. I normally turn away work at a rate of 4 to 5 customers a week. I will probably never do this full-time, I am happy with the extra money I make. Maybe some of the guys are getting $100.00 an hour, but I am happy with what I make and my low over-head. The only thing I am considering doing besides cutting is aerating. I may start doing this next year in the fall to make some quick money at the end of the season. Like I said I turn away work all the time, so it's not like I am trying to steal customers or take on anymore work. I just am wondering do you think I am a low-baller? I know most people would be happy making this kind of money, and I have been blessed. All of my work is in a two mile radius. I had to vent because I don't want to be thought of this way.

[Edited by Brians on 10-20-2000 at 03:06 PM]

[TGCummings]

That's it, I'm moving to Maryland! :)

I don't think you're low-balling, brother, not at all. I took a job from a fellow landscaper recently(the customer came to me and asked for a quote, I didn't 'undercut' him), and bid the job at $35/hour. I was told in no uncertain terms that my rate was higher than the last guy, but I did a better job. He chose me.

$75/hour in any market is more than fair. Keep cutting, brother!

-TGC

[Skookum]

I agree with TGC, $75.00 - $90.00 an hour is not low balling by comparison to my area as well. Way to go Brian

BUT,
This will get some posting action: What is LOW BALLING anyway? It's only low balling to the guy that lost the work or did not get the job to begin with. This business is like any other in this great country of FREE ENTERPRIZE. You charge what you want, I charge what I want. If I take away an account from you, it is called competition. Would we all like to have a government controlled industry that governs what we are allowed to charge?

Several years ago, I took several accounts away from two companies here that had been the only two in town for almost 20 years. They acted like I had raped them. Even treated the accounts badly by calling and sending letters to them. They acted like little babies!

BRIAN, If you get the work and you are happy with what you charge, it is not low balling. The other professional that told you this, is not really a professional, nor understands the reality of business!

[scottb]

I have to agree with Skookum. No low balling in your area.
Keep up the good work.

[Toroguy]

As long as you make a legitimate profit you can tell the crying competitor to take a flying leap.

[jcoat]

Brians, I've been on the forum since the first of the year and haven't posted in awhile, but you, my man, are my inspiration. I have a full-time job and will be beginning my lmo late winter/early spring. My goals are <20 hrs/wk and no less than $35/hr here in Tulsa. If I can become as efficient as you sound, I'll be sitting pretty as a lone operator... keep it up!!!
btw- are you making that rate with just the basics (edging, mowing {mulch or bag} and blowing)?

[Vandora Lawn & Landscape]

I think Maryland has some of the highest rates around. Luckily, I'm from Maryland!

[Bobby]

Hey Brians, just curious. 85per hr at twenty hrs=1700 a week part time.Do you have a regular job?

[TJLC]

Sure beats $18-20 per hour down here!

[MIDSOUTH]

you know of any good houses for sale-i'm on my way up there!

[Keith]

Yeah, you're lowballing. You should be charging at least $1300-$1400 an hour. You are just taking food off that man's plate.

My reply to him would have been....oh never mind, it would get deleted anyway :)

[Edited by Keith on 10-20-2000 at 09:23 PM]

[Richard Martin]

MIDSOUTH wrote:

<b><i>you know of any good houses for sale-i'm on my way up there!</b></i>

You'd better bring a lot of money! My 1040 square foot, 3 bedroom, 1 bath rancher has a market value of over $140,000. And bring plenty of time too. A 15 mile trip here during rush hour can take over an hour. And I live in the sticks.

[River Hill]

I appreciate your guys input. I feel much better. Here's the answers to some of your questions!

Jcoat- Yes, I a pretty much a MOW, EDGE, TRIM, AND BLOW guy in that order. I don't do any mulching except for a townhouse complex I do. I work after my full-time job 3 evenings a week sometimes 4.

Bobby- I come closer to $1500 a week and I average about 28 cuts for the season. Some of my customers get 26 some get 32. I have a few that are real slow growers and only get 24. I average about 28 weeks of steady work however, and yes I do have a full-time job.

Richard Martin, Vandora, Lazerz101, Guntruck, DHicks, and Lawman are all from Maryland to my knowledge. Their are probably some more however. Housing is very expensive in this area. I live in the sticks as well, Richard. I travel about 45 minutes to get to my job and all my cutting is in that area. I don't have to worry about ruch hour, I start my full-time job at 6:00 a.m..

If I could just find one good employee, I would run the operations and let them do the work. I could sit back talk to customer and collect the cash. My problem is if I found someone good and he quit I would be S.O.L....

[KirbysLawn]

Oh great.....now I feel like a lowballer. :)

[landscaper3]

Your not a lowballer at all, at $75 to $90 and hr thats high baller up here. We get $40.00hr for Maintenance and $65.00hr for Landscaping services

[Premo Services]

Lowballer ?
I lost a good customer(or what I thought was a good cust.) to a LOWBALLER!
I bid mowing of her new prop. at 110.00 a cut, he came in at what he said was a high price of 70.00. I told cust. that I could not do for that low and she keeps telling me but he will do it for that, why can`t you? I finally got tired of trying to explain all costs of operating, but she was stuck on price I told her to get lowballer. I went by there a couple times since, it looks like kids are doing it.This house probally cost 1-2 million easy.

[thelawnguy]

Skookum summed up my feelings on "lowballing". Seems its a fancy word for "my overhead is higher than yours" (or is it the other way around?)

BTW what does cost of the house have to do with it?

[Premo Services]

Originally posted by thelawnguy
Skookum summed up my feelings on "lowballing". Seems its a fancy word for "my overhead is higher than yours" (or is it the other way around?)



Mabey overhead is higher, or mabey they are not paying taxes, don`t have insurance, I would like to see the look on customers face when loballer says " INSURANCE"??,after something goes wrong and there is damage to property or something else. And what about taxes, just because all you say you pay taxes, does this mean everybody is legit and pays taxes.



[Edited by mow money on 10-21-2000 at 02:02 AM]

[Charles]

We have had this discussion many time before lol.
Some think you should charge the average or above the goin rate for your community.
Some think you should charge less money than everyone else. So you can out bid them and get the job.
What it really comes down to. Is how much money do you want to make (NET) in a year?. And can you make that with what you are charging? It seem to take a few years for new some companies to realize they are not going to reach their goal with what they are charging and some never realize it. There is just so much time in a day and you have to make so much an hour to reach that goal.
Can you get as much business as you can handle with out underbidding? I believe some see this as a game to see how many people they can beat out of a job. Thats why after around 3 years they are out of business

[Runner]

Brians, what do you cut with? I don't mean to sound sceptical or anything, but $1500 a week for a 20 hr. week sounds like an AWFUL lot of money. I've been in this business a long time, and know alot of people doing it as well, and for basic lawn maintenance I've NEVER heard of such a thing anywhere except one guy in our area who does the Michigan School for the Deaf, and he runs all kinds of equipment that he keeps right there, including a gang reel. Take into consideration trim time, and cleanup, and also figure that you have an hour and a half driving time per day to get to the are you are cutting. This is of course before any machinery maintenance is tacked on to the roster of what is called "part time." Just a thought.

[HOMER]

If I were making that kind of money part time......................I think I'd try full time real soon!

Homer
Broke in Bama

[River Hill]

Runner- I cut with a 48" Turf Trace HP 99% of the time, with a Velke. Like I said in my original post I have been blessed. My accounts are all within a two mile radius. Sor for example day 1, I might cut 12 lawns all within 2 blocks at $35.00 a piece in 4 hours, that $420.00 in one day do that 3 to 4 days and you get the picture. I set up my schedule so all my homes are on two are three streets that connect, so travel time is like 30 seconds, and most of the time there is no travel. I also do a townhouse complex, in the same neighborhood. Like I said I do no more than 20 hours of work a week. People laugh at me when I cut, they tell me all I do is run, and I do. The drive time to my full-time job is 45 minutes so I am already in that area. I know some people find this hard to belive but I walk real fast with the blower, edger, and trimmer. I do good work most of all that's why I have to turn away work. Most of the homes are on 1/4 to 1/3 acre lots, then you put the home on that there is not a whole lot of space let to cut. As you can see these lots are not real big and most of the neighbor hood is fed up with guys trying to take there ZTR'S on there lawns, I think the space is a little to tight or I would of bought one, which I was going to do. This is the first question customers would ask me when I would get calls. You are not going to use one of those sit down mowers are you?

Homer- To answer your question about going full-time. I have thought about this for a long time but I decided I did not want to. Let me give you some examples. I will give some rough numbers so you can see why. Lets say I make around $50,000 at my full-time job. Than you add all the benefits 401, family health, disabilty, and 3 weeks vacation. These add up to about 30% additional pay. So thats's about $65,000 a year. Now lets say I decide to cut full time. I could double what I am making part time just cutting with no probem. Say that's about $80,000 by the time I deduct health and all expenses, and headaches I am better off staying in my current situation.


[Edited by Brians on 10-21-2000 at 01:14 PM]

[lawrence stone]

Brians a pro slide might be a better choice of a sulky for the size of your accounts.

[Lawn Cruiser]

Man if that is lowballing I need to low ball that price so I can make more, here were I live $20-25 an hour if I'm lucky.