New rider for small mowing business

[pottstim]

Hey everyone,<br>I just became a member earlier this week, and instead of posting in here, I made the mistake of posting in the What did you start with? section of the forum. I don't guess that that part of the forum is visited too often because i only got 1 reply. LOL<br>Now I hope by posting in here, I will get more responses.<br>I'm gonna be starting a small mowing business (part time) in the spring of next year. I've just bought a used rider this week that i am working on now. This one I plan to use as a secondary rider. <br>At the first of next year, I'm going to buy a new rider. I don't have a tremendous amount of funds on tap to buy a really expensive model.<br>I was wondering if I could get some recommendations from some of you on what would be a good rider for around $2000.<br>I'm just starting out here, so anything that you guys could tell me would help out a great deal.<br>What i'm doing is picking up my equipment piece by piece. That way, I can pay cash for everything, and can avoid getting a bank loan. I have a 2000 Chevy Silverado that I bought at the first of the year, so I've got a vehicle that will tow a trailer. An aquaintance of mine has an extra trailer that he wants to sell, and i'm gonna go over to his place in the near future and check it out.<br>I also have a good friend that has a full service landscape business. He's gonna give me advice on bookkeeping and bidding jobs.<br>Anything that any of you guys can contribute would help a lot, and it would be greatly appreciated! Thanks very much :o)<p>Tim

[stslawncare]

hi tim,<br>I am in the same boat as you though im pretty sure your a lot older then me, i am only 14. You will learn so much on this forum! I have only been on for a few weeks (2.5) and i half already learned so much. These guys will give you tons of info on what mower to get and everything else possible. they no what they are talking about to! Good luck!<br>Scottie<br>STS Lawn Care

[pottstim]

Hey Scottie, thanks for your reply. I'm 23 years old. I replied to your post titled &quot;New&quot; earlier this week. Go back and check it out if you have time. <br>Take care,<br>Tim

[southside]

The first thing you should cosider is<br>public liability insurance.If you hit someone<br>with a rock,ect. your business will be down<br>the drain real quick.Then the customer is<br>liable for any damage/injury you caused as<br>well.I would check out turfquip.com for<br>a good used mower.<p>Karl<br>

[GrassRoots Lawn Care]

Southside is right about the insurance. It will run you about $300 a year. Keep on paying cash for things you can afford, great way to go. As far as picking up a rider for $2000. I don't think you'll find a commercial rider in that price range. The normal price range is between $4900-$10k for new and a little less for used riders. I'd recommend not getting a residential riding lawn mower(ie Home Depot, ect.) When I started this business I was told by a veteran &quot;anything with a steering wheel is obsolete&quot; and he was right. Also, if you are doing mostly residential accounts, a small 36&quot;-44&quot; commercial walk-behind mower might be a better choice. They are only slightly above your price range ($2000-2900) new for a belt drive. It will save you time in cutting and repair compared to a res. rider and the increases productivity will pay for itself alot faster than a rider. Just my $0.02. <p>----------<br>Mike Reynolds,<br>GrassRoots Lawn Care, Florida

[little green guy]

i second Grass Roots post. don't get a residential rider. You can get a good walkbehind for around that pice and it will be much faster that a rider and you will lokk more profesional and the cut is better. If you don't want to walk get a velke. good luck

[mowerman90]

I wish you the best of luck. Concerning your bookeeping - checkout www.medlin.com and download their AR (accounts receivable) program. I've tried everything including clip and quickbooks pro and nothing is easier, faster, or more customizable for the lawn service industry than medlin. Now the best part, it's only $35 and you can try it before you buy it. I've been using it for over 10 years. Only thing it doesn't have is scheduling but if you've only got 100 or so accounts that shouldn't be a problem. If you've got any questions feel free to e-mail me mowerman@atlantic.net

[lawnworker]

a good used walkbehind mower like exmark brand can be found for around 1400.00 if you shop around for it.Go commercial on your mowers are they will not hold up to hard use good luck on your venture.<p>Lawnworker

[AB Lawn Care]

Little Green Guy hit on the head!Unless you are unable to walk buy a commercial walk-behind!I have run Walkers ever since I started my business about 6 years ago.Then last year i bought a Scag 36'' dual hydro 14hp.We bought it for small yards yards with gates and hills.A commercial walk-behind like Scag Exmark Ramsomes Ferris and so on will out last a home depot style rider 5 times over!!!!I too though walking would stink.But even after all those years of buzzing aroung on my Walkers I don't find it bad at all!!!!It is not like a push mower it does all the work.Little Green Guy and I are not the only ones on here that will tell you to get a commercial walkbehind.Countless others have started using walk-behinds after running riders for years.Many on here use all walk-behinds.One large advantage is old ladys will not wine that they don't want you useing a rider on there lawn.That is why walk-behinds are so popular in Flordia.I hope this will help you out!Ask the others getting a walk-behind is far and away better than buying a home depot special!!!!!<p>----------<br>from:Adam<br>AB Lawn Care

[pottstim]

Thanks everyone for your posts! I really appreciate them. As far as the liability insurance goes, I've already thought about that, and it's something that i won't start my business without. I don't want to take any chances, stuff happens to put it mildly. LOL<br>I saw some walk behinds in the paper at the local New Holland/Simplicity Dealer. They were MTD brand. Are these any good? I'd like to hear your opinions.<p>Thanks a bunch,<br>Tim

[scottt]

Look a little further down the page and you will see a discussion titled &quot;mtd pro&quot;. I think this should answer your question.

[pottstim]

Whoa! forget about the Mtd walk behinds, i just read some posts in forum. LOL<p>Tim

[AB Lawn Care]

MTD is no good.They make 95% of the home depot style mowers.Like I said before look for names like Scag Exmark Toro Ferris Ransomes,these are the brands that will be reliable and last for years.Don't be afriad to buy from a dealer even if he is 1/2 hour away from where you live,Good service and parts service will go along way!Look in your yello pages and find out which brands other than MTD are avalible in your area.All here can tell you weather or not that brand is any good.With 1000 members chances are someone here has used or still uses what you are looking into.Let us know what you find!<p>----------<br>from:Adam<br>AB Lawn Care

[little green guy]

I run exmark, scag and ransomes and there all realy good. as long as you get a good name brand and the mower and engine are in good shape ur set. The thing with getting a good name is that it's easier to get parts for. Mowers do break and when they do u need to get parts fast or your beat.

[AB Lawn Care]

Agian Little Green Guy hit it on the head!If you where to go out and buy a MTD or somthing of that nature you will never find any replacement parts!When I started out I bought a Weed Eater brand trimmer.It was only 1/2 year old and the trimmer head flew apart on a country job.Part of the head flew in to the brush and was never found.Do you think I got the part?:)No!You are better off with a 10 year old commercial unit than a 1 year old MTD!Commercial brands try not to change their machines very often and when they do they generally use the same platform and alter things a bit.Hope this helps!<p>----------<br>from:Adam<br>AB Lawn Care

[Greenkeepers]

I'm with the rest of the guys. If I were you I'd keep my eye out for a 48&quot; walk-behind. If you are looking to spend about 2000 you might want to save up alittle more and you could buy a new walkbehind. I prefer Exmark buy thats up to you, a new 48&quot; beltdrive is around $2500. I think it would be beneficial to you, if you could, to get a new mower. That way you are starting off on the right foot. You will have a warranty, so if anything goes wrong it can be fixed for free. If you go the used route and something goes wrong it comes out of you pocket and might end up costing you as much for the parts that you could have just got the new one. Just my opinion though. Good luck with the business and glad to see you found this site. It is very helpfull.<p> Mark

[pottstim]

Hey everyone,<br>I just found a nice Troy-Bilt 33&quot; walkbehind in a TB catalogue that they sent me in the mail today. It's got a 9hp Briggs I/C engine Peerless tranny with 4 forward speeds, and a 3yr. warranty. Any thoughts on Troy Bilt Equipment?<p>Thanks,<br>Tim

[Firebrand]

I don't know much about troy-bilt mowers, but I would caution you about purchasing a mower from a company that doesn't specialize in making mowers. Also I would definately want more power than a 9hp. Good Luck.

[AB Lawn Care]

Here is my honest opinion!Don't buy the troy-built.They are great mowers..........for home owners not a day in day out daily bashed mower.Trust me buy a name brand like Scag Ferris Exmark Toro Bob-cat Ramsomes John Deere and so on.I make no money from saying this and hope you will take my advise.Now if not one of these brands where whithin 2 hours than maby go to troy-built but even then I would probably drive that 2 hours to get a name brand.Hope this helps!<p>from:Adam<p>----------<br>from:Adam<br>AB Lawn Care

[little green guy]

Pottstim, didn't you listen to anything we said?

[pottstim]

Little Green Guy, <br>Didn't you read what i said in my post? I'm just starting out here, small and slow. I work a full time job (45 hrs a week min), so that prevents me from going full-time in this business. Also, I do not have a large budget here, sure i would like to go out and spend several thousand dollars on a premium machine, but i just can't do that. Not right now anyway. I am going to buy what i can afford right now, and upgrade in the future.<br>I've seen plenty of people here in my area that do this partime who are also on limited budgets like me that run Craftsman, Murray, or Mtd equipment. What i want to do is start out with about 5 yards. I am just the type of person that doesn't go beyond his means.<br>Maybe I've made this a little clearer now.<p>Thanks,<br>Tim<br>

[pottstim]

Greenskeepers,<br>Thanks for the advice concerning the Exmark 48&quot; walkbehind. There's a dealer here near me, and I'm going to go and check one out sometime within the next week. $2500 doesn't sound too bad, but I just want to stay in my budget. <br>I've got time on my side being as i've decided not to start till next spring. So that will give me plenty of time to prepare, and save and buy equipment a little at a time.<p>Thanks again,<br>Tim

[thelawnguy]

If you find a way to get that &quot;premium&quot; machine the term &quot;limited budget&quot; will soon be obsolete from your vocabulary.<p>Bill

[AB Lawn Care]

If you can afford $2500 for a commercial walk-behind GO FOR IT!I under stand you have a limited budget but if you can afford that $2500 just do it as nike would say!Let us know how that goes!<p>----------<br>from:Adam<br>AB Lawn Care

[accuratelawn]

Starting out ...only want five yards??<br>Borrow the $$ to buy a commercial mower.<br>The increased productivety will allow you to work twice as fast= 10 yards.<br>10 yards at $25 = $250 per week. <br>5 yards at $25 = $125 per week.<br>Take the extra $125 ($500 per month) and buy a real mower. MTD crapsman etc. will cost you in the long run.

[lawrence stone]

Tim wrote:<p>&gt;I've seen plenty of people here in my area that do this partime who are also on limited budgets like me that run Craftsman, Murray, or Mtd equipment<p>Me too. It is hard to keep from laughing as I drive by.

[pottstim]

Mr. Stone,<br>Have you ever heard the saying, &quot;You have to start somewhere?&quot; <br>Or did you take the time to think, &quot;Hey maybe that's all that guy can afford.&quot;<br>I really don't think that it's funny to laugh at someone because they can't afford an expensive piece of equipment, and I'm one of those guys, and i'll tell you that I'm not ashamed to admit it. In this world you have to work for what you've get, and i've never had a damn thing handed to me. So if it means starting out with not so expensive equipment, then so be it. If I had my way and plenty of $, I would go right out and buy a top dollar machine, but that's not possible for me now. Hopefully someday it will be. <br>I've learned a lot from this forum, and there are plenty of nice, helpful folks in here. But I will tell you one thing, I don't come in here to get insulted, and I don't take too kindly to some of the remarks that were made above. Yeah inexpensive machines may be inferior to top dollar machinery, I realize this, but it all comes down to what you can afford at the time without overburdening yourself. I just don't understand why some folks can't understand this. Different people have different needs and situations. I have other financial obligations, like student loans, truck payments, insurance, groceries, and many other things. So i watch my $ closely, that's the reason i don't wanna take on another loan right now.<br>Maybe this forum isn't for me, I don't know. I come in here to learn the fundamentals of the business, not to hear wisecracks from a couple people. I really do appreciate all the helpful posts and emails that i have gotten from you guys. It means a lot!<p>Take care,<br>Tim<br>

[Ocutter]

I started with a caftsman 22&quot; for $300. Upgraded to a Exmark 36&quot; for $1500. Then a 48&quot; Snapper for $1200. To a snapper 52&quot; for $3500 (new). Now a rider Toro used for $2300. I stayed within a budget and still do most of the work myself. To this day I still have all the mowers I bought due to good servicing on my part. P.S. The craftsman doubles as a good brushcutter too.

[pottstim]

Ocutter,<br>Sounds like you've done well for yourself. Thanks for the post! Everyone has to start somewhere, even if it is small. <p>Tim :o)

[Lazer]

If you're going to earn your living with it, it's CHEAPER to get the best. <p>Many folks make the mistake thinking the purchase price will be the most expensive part of owning a mower. Not so-- especially when you're talking about productivity and opportunity cost.<p>If you're just going to work part-time, I'd get a job with a commercial lawn contractor for $15/hour rather than working with equipment that will net you less than that.<p>

[lawrence stone]

Tim wrote:<p>&gt;I've learned a lot from this forum, and there are plenty of nice, helpful folks in here. But I will tell you one thing, I don't come in here to get insulted, and I don't take too kindly to some of the remarks that were made above. <p>&quot;A man should not mince words<br>just to spare the sensibilities<br>of the thin-skinned or the ignorant.&quot;

[FIREMAN]

TIM....I HAD A TROT-BUILT WALKBEHIND WHEN I STARTED...A NEIGHBOR GAVE IT TO ME, AND I FIGURED IT WOULD BE A GOOD START, BAD MOVE....SLOW,SLOW,SLOW IS THE BEST WAY TO DECRIBE IT...FIND A GOOD QUALITY USED OR NEW COMMERCIAL WALKBEHIND...YOU'LL SAVE TIME AND HEADACHES WITH A GOOD MACHINE..CHECK OUT TURFQUIP.COM.....REALLY GOOD STUFF THERE..HOWEVER YOU DECIDE TO GO GOOD LUCK....

[Eric ELM]

Tim, I agree with Lazer. You asked for advice and we are trying to give you advice. We have learned from mistakes, you have a forum to find out how to do this, most of us didn't. A home owner mower will get some grass mowed til it falls apart and it doesn't take long for that to happen. If you get a commercial mower, you may spend more, but you will get more done and it will hold up lots longer thus make you more money with less headaches. <p>----------<br>&lt;a href=&quot;http://pages.prodigy.net/eric.erickson/&quot;&gt;Eric@ELM&lt;/a&gt;<br>The Grass is always Greener on the other side of my competitors fence

[snow]

pottstim- if you are cutting only 5 yards, you don't need a rider or a 48&quot;wb unless they are very big.I cut 8 mid-size lawns usually by myself with a 21&quot; snapper. riding mowers scalp and do not work the best. my mower is very fast and has never stalled out on my even cutting 8&quot; grass in the fastest speed. snapper and other companies also make 26&quot; mowers. look in your paper and see what's for sale. check with local power equipment stores and see what they have in stock.<p><br>Bryan<p>----------<br><br>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.snowplow.web.com&quot;&gt;The Snowplow Homepage&lt;/a&gt;

[accuratelawn]

It sounds like you have made up your mind to purchase a piece of junk. Quit responding to the opinions of those that are trying to help and get to mowing! <br>P.S. I started on limited budget. I bought a new 36 gear drive $2250. I still use it 4 four years later. Repairs = replacing a fuel filter and starter cord.

[1MajorTom]

Hiya Tim,<p><br>I understand where you are coming from.<br>Not everyone has the money to start out with the best and most expensive equipment. (And that is nothing to be ashamed of.)<p>I know that there are a lot of people on this forum that have been in the business for a long time, and have made mistakes in the begininng.<p>If you were to ask 95% of those people if they, when starting out, had bought expensive large pieces of equipment, they would have to answer no. And why would their answer be no? Would it be because they didn't have the luxury of a nice informative forum to tell them to buy the best? OR, would it be because they too didn't have the capital when starting out to buy dixie choppers, etc..???<p>It doesn't take much logic or common sense to know that the more money you invest in your equipment, the more productive you will become. Bigger equipment means more potential income, plain and simple. Bottom line.<p>But starting out isn't easy. You spend what you can afford. <br>Should you go into over $20,000 debt easy to buy top notch equipment, if you are not sure if you will succeed in this business? Are you confident that you can get enough accounts to cover the cost of the new fabulous equipment?<p><br>Everyone has different priorities. And you make it clear that you have other bills, commitments to handle. So I say, start small. Be sure that you like this type of work. Get your feet wet before getting yourself strapped to a bunch of large expensive equipment.<p>And don't let Lawrence Stone offend you. If you can get past how he comes across, you will find he does know his stuff. He seems pretty savvy when it comes to equipment, although I don't reckon he always buys new. I'm sure he buys what HE can afford while still making a profit.<p>You do the same. Buy what YOU can afford.<p>P.S. After two years of being laughed at by &quot;the professionals&quot;, we, at the end of this season, will be buying ourselves some bigger and better equipment.<br>What were our other priorities these last two years? Buying a house, and paying off over $20,000 in furnishings, renovations, and appliances. We did this with small equipment all the while learning the business and gaining new customers.<p><br>Hope I've been able to offer some insight.<p><br>Major Tom<p><br>

[geogunn]

well...I suppose it's time to weigh in on this discussion. seems like everyone has a good point so far...I think.<p>pottstim--the way I see it it doesn't matter if you cut commercial grass or not. a man needs a good lawn machine just because he's a man. women don't understand this but swat 'em on the rump and send them upstairs. we love 'em any way!<p>obviously, you need a good used commercial mower. it will work within your budget and provide room for growth when you expand. lesco makes a NEW belt drive for $2200, on promotional sales. check it out. not bad with a two year warranty.<p>1majortom wrote:<p>&quot;And don't let Lawrence Stone offend you. If you can get past how he comes across, you will find he does know his stuff. He seems pretty savvy when it comes to equipment, although, I'm sure he buys what HE can afford while still making a profit.&quot;<p>this too is good advice. HELL, stone is the king of used equipment (as long ass it's toro and kohler). nothing wrong with that!<p>I'll tell a funny one on myself. coming home from the lake today, I saw a truck pulling a trailer with a red ZTR on it. I quickly caught up and said &quot;look honey...that's what I want to pick up soon!&quot; you know, I was kinda gettin' her used to the idea.... WELL, upon closer inspection, it was an MTD PRO! I had to back pedal real quick cause she saw the name. I don't have a problem with MTD PRO but I'm not looking at them. I thought it was an EXMARK LAZER Z!<p>good luck to all,<p>GEO

[pottstim]

Major Tom,<br>Thanks very much for your post. Yes, you provided a lot of insight, and you seem to really understand my situation.<br>You hit the nail on the head when you mentioned &quot;getting your feet wet&quot;. That's exactly what i'm trying to do. I want to start out small and slow. I've thought to myself, &quot;Hey what if this doesn't work out and I have all this equipment that costs mega bucks sitting around.&quot; I don't want to be stuck with a huge loan and have no way to pay for it, or not be making enough $ starting out and not being able to pay for it.<br>Ever since I was a young boy, I have loved to mow and work out in the yard. I used to mow a few yards for neighbors, and a few times I mowed a couple rental houses for the local Century 21 office. I was always taught by my parents to take pride in my work, and I get a lot of self satisfaction from a job well done. Everyone that knows me in this town i live in knows that I am this type of person. So I think that will give me some pretty good referrals and references. <br>But I just don't want to get into the business too big too quick, because of my budget, and the obvious risks of operating a business. Therefore, I am gonna start small and get my feet wet, and buy what I can afford and take on jobs that I can handle and what my equipment can handle.<br>Thanks very much for your understanding, Tom. It is greatly appreciated!<p>Tim :)

[kutnkev]

hi pottstim,<br> i'm looking to get started also on a very tight budget. i can tell you if you think as did i that you cant afford commercial you can! you can lease what you need for in many cases zero down, no pay for 90 days wi/one dollar buyout.the money that you would spend on sears type stuff, you could have a BASIC setup w/ commercial equipment. finally if you think you cant afford it try to eat the cost of lost business for the week that sears says it will take to send you &quot;afordable&quot; mower out for repairs. go commercial lease and grow at your own pace with no breakdowns while you are doing so.<p>kevin

[little green guy]

pottstim-<p>don't get all offended because you asked for advice and i gave you my opinion. The reason i made that comment was because you seemed open to what we said so when all the sudden you asked about something else that was the opposite of what we where talking about it made it seem like a waste of time replying to your post. Also you siad it was near your buget and then when stone made is comment you claimed you don't have the money.??? <p>By the way i did read your post. <p>Anyway i still think your better off getting a used walkbehind for around 1000.00 than a piece of crap residential mower that's going fall apart with no parts avialable in 6 months. But hey, do whatever you want.

[HOMER]

I'll say one thing and shut up.............I'm 38 years old and have just now got my first brand new vehicle. It came after the equipment and after 4 years of bustin' my ass to get established. You could do a lot with an older truck and newer equipment...............just my observation, but hey, nobody asked me!<p>Homer

[pottstim]

Little Green Guy,<br>Hey, I just want to say that I appreciate all the posts that everyone made to me. I did state in my first post that I can spend around $2000 on a machine. When I saw the Troy Bilt, I thought that it wouldn't hurt to ask if anyone hand any experiences with them. I'm just trying to get some thoughts about other brands out there. I'm sorry that you got agrivated about me asking about another brand. I feel like this an if you don't wanna buy what I suggest, then the heck with you thing. And you are right, I'll buy whatever suits me and my needs.<br>As far as Stone goes, I just didn't care too much for the posts that he made. The man does know his stuff, but he needs to be more tactful. <br>About the equipment, I've got a while to look around. I may start later this year, or just wait until next spring. I haven't quite made up my mind yet. I'm going to look at the walk behinds that you suggested, and some other equipment that I'd like to check out, but I'm thinking I'll probably go for new. We'll see how the prices are here at my local dealers. If i've got one thing going for me, it's time. So I don't have to make any rush decisions. I'll let you all know what I find, I may go out this weekend and do some comparison shopping.<p>Take care,<br>Tim<p><br>&lt;font size=&quot;1&quot;&gt;Edited by: pottstim<br><p><font size="1">Edited by: pottstim

[SMB]

As far as Troy Bilt goes...<br>We bought a new Troy Bilt 22 HP 46 inch cut (WAY overpowered, they do that to sell them) Troy Bilt is now made by MTD. Our Troy is EXACTLY like any other MTD. The belt kept comin' off so we took it back. I'd get a good &quot;Heavy Duty&quot; brand.<p>----------<br>SMB<br>