landscape designers

[yardfaery]

who knows what 'trained' professional designers should make per year?

[paponte]

ummm ok. Depends on how go you are. If they were unemployed I wouldn't think they'd be making alot. :cool:

[Team Gopher]

Here is a quote from this site (http://www.du.edu/~ecotter/Careerpaper.doc), maybe it will be helpful.

" With the right amount of education and experience, an eager young landscape designer is more likely to feel satisfied with the beginner’s salary. If you have the credentials and know what you’re doing the opportunity for growth will come a lot more quickly. However, according to the Occupational Outlook Handbook, Median annual earnings for all architects were about $39,500 in 1996. The middle 50% earned between $30,200 and $53,900; 10% earned less than $23,900; and 10% earned over $65,800. In 1997, the average annual salary for all landscape architects in the Federal Government in nonsupervisory, supervisory, and managerial positions was about $53,300. "

[AGLA]

There is no definition as to what a landscape designer is, there is no standard of what they do, what education or experience level they have, therefore their is no standard as to what they get paid.

There are tons of people from tons of backgrounds that are or hope to be landscape designers. That is great because there are tons of different expectations of clients, so there is a place for all and a demand for all.

The trick to earning money as a landscape designer is to be valuable. More often than not the trick to being valuable is less on how great a designer you are and more on how well you can make someone money. In other words you will make more money by selling landscape jobs than by selling design services.

If you work for a landscape company getting more profitable jobs directly from your ability to design and sell or a nursery that is moving more material, they will make sure you are taken care of. They are unlikely to throw money at you until you have proven yourself. Once you have, you can make over $50k in a good market for a good company.

The down side is that most landscape companies are small and can not produce enough to support a full time designer/sales person. In which case the owner usually doubles as the designer. Many of the larger companies stay out of design all together and bid on jobs designed by others.

To sum it up, you can make a lot more money working 40 hours a week doing designs billing $40 per hour for 20 hours and making $100,000 sales than you can billing $100 per hour selling nothing but your own hours.

If you are a contractor looking to make extra money by designing that is a two edged sword. Design takes time away from you doing other things. It is also your sales tool. If you charge too much, you'll lose potential clients that you would have made a lot more money from by getting the "build' job. If you go after design work and get it, you'll lose time from running the other aspects of your business especially if you are not going to get the "build" job. In my opinion, a small contractor should design only what he has a high probability of building, he should charge enough to cover costs and disuade tire kickers, and should limit how much he takes on. The value is what you make from landscapes well tailored to your abilities and profit margins - you make more money.

If you are an independent designer, you are in the toughest place. You are trying to make a living at it, so you need to cover costs and pay yourself through only design fees. That means that you have to charge the client more than the others to make the same wage. That makes you less attractive to a client. You also are not able to produce the built landscape or an actual proposal with an actual price for the client, or an actual time frame of when the work is scheduled. That makes you less attractive to the client. It is a competitive disadvantage with very many people wanting to do it.

[mdvaden]

agla posted this...

"There is no definition as to what a landscape designer is, there is no standard of what they do, what education or experience level they have, therefore their is no standard as to what they get paid."

Maybe that's why a previous chairman of an Oregon State green industry license board referred to designers - as an associated group - as "an illegitimate child" a few years back. That was at a meeting of designers.

Anyhow, agla's post reminded me of the meeting where that came about.

[AGLA]

I don't look at designers as little bahstards. I don't fear them. I don't view them as illegitimate. They are valued by those that hire them and most should be proud of their work.

There is simply too wide range of skills, knowledge, and abilities to put assign a specific pay rate to.

[mdvaden]

If there is no standard, definition, or identifiable pay, that can be a lot like not knowing the ancestry of someone.

I think the trade, in general cultural vocabulary, can be described.

The average person, experienced in home and landscape ownership, has little difficulty describing what a landscape designer is.

The pay rate can be indicated. Many landscape designers list their approximate fees on websites.

The poster of this thread might consider visiting a few designer's sites via a web query to see which ones list rates. A few sites list the hourly rate.

Some list estimated project totals. The sky can be the limit for how much time and detail can go into a plan, but in general, for an average home, even a fairly big yard, 3 to 5 days accumulated time should be more than adequate to deliver a substantially complete final plan.

Some sites may indicate length of experience to show how long it took to reach a certain plateau.

[newleaflandscape]

I charge seventy five an hour. Dont know if that helps

[Keith Howells]

There is a standard for landscape designers. Go to this site: http://www.apld.com/ It's the Association of Professional Landscape Designers. They have a certification process that is fairly difficult to get through. They also have to be re-certified periodically. They also have a list of professional standards that they adhere to.

They are a very active group and they meet several times a year. There are designers that I have met at their conventions that do nothing but design and seem to make a decent living. A lot of them got their start in urban planning.

[olderthandirt]

Originally posted by AGLA
There is no definition as to what a landscape designer is, there is no standard of what they do, what education or experience level they have, therefore their is no standard as to what they get paid.

There are tons of people from tons of backgrounds that are or hope to be landscape designers. That is great because there are tons of different expectations of clients, so there is a place for all and a demand for all.

The trick to earning money as a landscape designer is to be valuable. More often than not the trick to being valuable is less on how great a designer you are and more on how well you can make someone money. In other words you will make more money by selling landscape jobs than by selling design services.

If you work for a landscape company getting more profitable jobs directly from your ability to design and sell or a nursery that is moving more material, they will make sure you are taken care of. They are unlikely to throw money at you until you have proven yourself. Once you have, you can make over $50k in a good market for a good company.

The down side is that most landscape companies are small and can not produce enough to support a full time designer/sales person. In which case the owner usually doubles as the designer. Many of the larger companies stay out of design all together and bid on jobs designed by others.

To sum it up, you can make a lot more money working 40 hours a week doing designs billing $40 per hour for 20 hours and making $100,000 sales than you can billing $100 per hour selling nothing but your own hours.

If you are a contractor looking to make extra money by designing that is a two edged sword. Design takes time away from you doing other things. It is also your sales tool. If you charge too much, you'll lose potential clients that you would have made a lot more money from by getting the "build' job. If you go after design work and get it, you'll lose time from running the other aspects of your business especially if you are not going to get the "build" job. In my opinion, a small contractor should design only what he has a high probability of building, he should charge enough to cover costs and disuade tire kickers, and should limit how much he takes on. The value is what you make from landscapes well tailored to your abilities and profit margins - you make more money.

If you are an independent designer, you are in the toughest place. You are trying to make a living at it, so you need to cover costs and pay yourself through only design fees. That means that you have to charge the client more than the others to make the same wage. That makes you less attractive to a client. You also are not able to produce the built landscape or an actual proposal with an actual price for the client, or an actual time frame of when the work is scheduled. That makes you less attractive to the client. It is a competitive disadvantage with very many people wanting to do it.


Ditto!!!! The man speaks the truth

Mac

[yardfaery]

thank you everyone who replied. lots of good input. i will check out the apld web site. seems i know some one of the members. thanks again

[mdvaden]

Hey NEW LEAF...

I've had that name registered here since near 1980.

If you come to Oregon, let me know so we can take care of some paperwork.

Yard Faery...

Looks like Howell's post is part of the path you were looking to head down for answers.

Best wishes.

[AGLA]

Keith,

That is a standard for APLD designers. Those are standards designed by a private organization and nothing more. It is a good thing to belong to any group that is recognized as having standards so that people can see that you have met a certain criteria. APLD is a widely known and respected organization among landscape designers. I've yet to have a client ask me if I belong to any organization. It is something that you can point out to them and they can see the standards on the web site. Any certification program is good for personal development and might you over the top if a client is sitting on the fence between you and someone else. But, most people choose a designer by the perception they get from you, others recommendations, how smoothly they can go from design to construction (scheduling, your connection to the installation company), and your portfolio of built work.

There are no standards for landscape designers in all but a few states. I think that I have heard that Oregon might be one of them:)

[mdvaden]

Also, consider doing a query for a college like PORTLAND COMMUNITY COLLEGE in Portland, Oregon.

It has a landscape technology program, but also the 2 year landscape design degree.

If you work your way through the site to the landscape technology section, you will eventually find the classes that are listed. Those classes will show you what a group of professionals determined as a framework to be effective for the wants and needs of consumers in Oregon.

For pay - I will say this; lawn mowing services here charge $25 per hour per man. And window cleaning (little training) is based on $40 per hour per man. That's not low bid, but people that expect to remain in business.

So a designer, with training, should desire for at least $35 to $50 per hour to base an estimate if its their own business. Possibly less if employed.

Found this just now:

http://www.pcc.edu

The majors and classes on this page:

http://www.pcc.edu/pcc/pro/default.htm

Scroll down to the Technical Programs and you'll find Landscape Technology.

Some departments may have email contact, and its possible that the instructors may offer a personal opinion on what kind of median salary can be anticipated.

[newleaflandscape]

mdvaden what are you talking about

[mdvaden]

Your name - New Leaf Landscape - is that your business name?

That's what I was referring too.

That is the name I registered with the corporation division in Oregon years before registering M. D. Vaden.

I still hold the assumed business name on New Leaf Landscape in Oregon.

But I don't need it. So if anyone wants to use that name, they can contact me, if they need to set up shop here under that assumed business name.

[aperfectlawn]

My job is to design houses and I make $10.50 an hour. And this is a national design firm not a hole in the wall place. Am I underpaid? YES. But I can't get any better than this. I wish I could make $35 to $50 an hour. I hope this helps.

[mdvaden]

The difference between building design and landscape design is interesting.

Building maaterials don't grow or get disease. There is rust and rot to consider, but in general, those materials keep the basic dimensions.

But building architecture appears to yield a much greater amount of income for large projects.

I think most designers are happy with the income from the better projects, whether buildings or gardens.