Starting new biz... How important is a Skid Steer?

[westernmdlawn]

Hi all... I'm expanding my lawn business to incorporate and focus more on Landscaping work. I want to be able to do lawn installations, hardscape installations, and general landscape installations. I know I have much to learn about EVERYTHING. Anyway, have been doing alot of reading on this awesome site and have gathered that it is quite possible to run a profitable operation that does the above listed work by myself, or with 2 or 3 guys at most in most situations. It has been mentioned here that purchasing equipment helps to minimize labor. Labor that can be lazy and unreliable, requires overtime pay, and all the negative stuff associated. Equipment affords the benefit of avoiding such pains in the rear. Well, of course equipment requires maintenance and fuel and so on... but still it is better, right? Anyway - would it be best to have a skid steer or a tractor with 4 wheel drive, a bucket, and a PTO. I was thinking a tractor would be more useful since it has a PTO and most SKID STEERS dont (or am I wrong there?). What do you guys think?

[MacLawnCo]

Rent until you need one. At this point, you do not even know if this aspect of your bus will take off, correct?

It would make sense to continually rent up until you just about pay annually in rent what it would cost to own one (dont forget maintenance costs too).

[yacht]

I think the answer will depend largely on the type of work you get or pursue. Currently I am doing a large job on a site that has nice established grass and I don't have to worry about the tires on my tractor tearing up the grass when I turn. Ofcourse skid steers are probably faster than a tractor. :)

[hoyboy]

Unless your a farmer, skip the pto stuff. Buy a skidsteer. If your jobs are really small, consider a dingo with various attachments. May make sense for your size operation.

[olderthandirt]

Originally posted by yacht
I think the answer will depend largely on the type of work you get or pursue. Currently I am doing a large job on a site that has nice established grass and I don't have to worry about the tires on my tractor tearing up the grass when I turn. Ofcourse skid steers are probably faster than a tractor. :)

Ditto Yacht!!!
But i'll take my trac over a skidder any day when it comes to big open areas they are faster, small residentials probably the skid steer becoase of of its manuvability.

[Shuter]

Pretty important if the you choose to do skid steer work. If not rent it as needed and add the cost into the job quote.

[DUSTYCEDAR]

i run a tractor loader back-hoe and powerake i can go from slow to 20 mph to move around the sites a skid steer has 1 speed slow
the tractor has more ground clearance and is easier on the lawn
a skid steer is good for some things but not 4 my uses

[olderthandirt]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ffshuter
[B]Pretty important if the you choose to do skid steer work.

LMAO good one, and right to the point!

[zedosix]

How important is a skidsteer?

How important is your back?

[DUSTYCEDAR]

skid steer - trailer is abought $30k u can rent a lot to see if it is worth it plus ins and a place to store it

[xcopterdoc]

I'm just a mechanic but if ya'll dont mind my opinion...I think a small compact tractor with a bucket and PTO would do ya. Way more versatile, lower purchase price and less maintenance cost... ie... TIRES! I like the small to mid size Kubotas myself. I agree though with the others.. rent it first, see how it fits ya, go from there. Some of these skid steers are gettin way high tech! Too high tech! With most small and mid size tractors its a turn key deal with no worries. Attach what ya need to the old trusty 3 point and go. Attach something to a skid steer and its pricey, needs aux hyd and or wiring. Just my opinion.

[BigEd]

Have you already recieved your MHIC license. In Maryland you need to have this in order to do any landscaping installs. Your even supposed to have it just to plant a shrub.But if you plan on doing new lawn installs or any landscape work you need it.The only landscape work you can do without it is service or maintenance. Just trying to help if you didnt already know.;)

I like a compact tractor with turf tires for doing landscape installs on already existing turf.A skid steer is easier to manuever and faster but you tear turf easier.

[workaholic]

I totally agree rent it until u have enough work and being that u dont have much experence in hardscapes u could possibly end up looking at itmore then sitting in it..

[Scag48]

We don't do alot of renovations and don't plan on doing so, therefore we can use the skid not having to worry about tearing up lawns. I don't see how tractors are cheaper? Kubota B21 last time I checked was over $25,000 new and a new skid steer with an engine twice that size with more capability is about $20K. Tractors are slow, lets face it, I don't care what anyone says. We have an older Kubota L275 that we use in the orchard that wouldn't be a bad size tractor for landscaping and such but they are horribly slow turning around and take alot of room to do so. I like to be able to move 20 yards of topsoil, mulch, gravel, etc. in less than 1 1/2 hours within a reasonable distance and you just can't do that with a tractor. So what it comes down to is this: if you're doing large areas, established lawns, or are just a plain tractor guy, buy a tractor. If you want to get work done in a hurry, buy a skid steer. I can change attachments way faster on a skid steer than you can with a 3 pt. There's my .02

[olderthandirt]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Scag48
[B]so. I like to be able to move 20 yards of topsoil, mulch, gravel, etc. in less than 1 1/2 hours within a reasonable distance and you just can't do that with a tractor.

Nope, I would of had it done in a 1/2 an hr. on my trac

[zedosix]

I love these spittin contests. Skidsteer hands down fastest machine to move large piles of gravel or soil. I have a 7800 kubota with a 54" bucket and a 153s skidsteer with a 60" bucket. Ok the bucket is a bit larger on the skidsteer, but I'm tellin ya...for moving large piles of dirt there is NO comparison.

Ha

zed

[westernmdlawn]

Thanks for all the help guys... it is much appreciated! I will be getting my MHIC in the next month, so that is no prob. Sounds like a trac would be the way for me to go for now. Well see!

[olderthandirt]

Originally posted by zedosix
I love these spittin contests. Skidsteer hands down fastest machine to move large piles of gravel or soil. I have a 7800 kubota with a 54" bucket and a 153s skidsteer with a 60" bucket. Ok the bucket is a bit larger on the skidsteer, but I'm tellin ya...for moving large piles of dirt there is NO comparison.

Ha

zed


Now Zed, making comments like what you just did is like spittin in the wind it can come back and get all over you.:D I see your wanting to compare 54 in bucket on a trac to a 60 incher on the skidder. Now the old Deere 750 sitting out back with the custom 1 1/2 yd bucket might prove you a little wrong. You might want to compare apples to apples before making a blanket statement. :eek:

[Scag48]

I wouldn't advise 1 1/2 yard bucket on a tractor that small, the wheel bearings might not handle that kind of stress long term. For what we do a skid steer is much faster, period. Tractors have their place and that's fine, but not for me.

[olderthandirt]

Originally posted by Scag48
I wouldn't advise 1 1/2 yard bucket on a tractor that small, the wheel bearings might not handle that kind of stress long term. For what we do a skid steer is much faster, period. Tractors have their place and that's fine, but not for me.

SMALL, this trac is an older one, not a compact the hoe on the back hangs a 30inch dirt bucket alone, When it was built it would almost dig as fast as a track hoe. weighs around 18k

[Scag48]

That's basically a backhoe, which is almost useless for most landscaping duties, too big and bulky. But I'm not doubting the 1 1/2 yard bucket on that size of a machine though. Glad it works for you, but you're not comparing apples to apples when you compare that size of a machine to a skid steer when the original comparison was between skids and COMPACT tractors. If I had a backhoe I sure as heck wouldn't be in this business.

[olderthandirt]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by zedosix
I love these spittin contests. Skidsteer hands down fastest machine to move large piles of gravel or soil. I have a 7800 kubota with a 54" bucket and a 153s skidsteer with a 60" bucket. Ok the bucket is a bit larger on the skidsteer, but I'm tellin ya...for moving large piles of dirt there is NO comparison.

Ha

zed



Scag, read my preveous post thats all I was refering to!

[ksss]

I will throw in on this one. I Last year at the site of a new Super Walmart I was loading topsoil into our truck with a 95XT skid steer. The soil had been piled with scrapers in the spring and was plenty hard by Fall. Because of the tough digging conditions I had the smaller 73" tooth bucket on. I was loading next to a 430D Cat Backhoe. His truck was 12 yard ten wheeled dump truck. I was loading a 20 yard semi trailer. On average I was 2 min. behind loading my larger truck then he was on a smaller one. The moral of the story is taking on a backhoe with a large skid steer can be done. If the material was softer allowing me to use my 83" bucket I would easily matched him truck for truck. We surpise excavators all the time on how much material we move with our large skid steer. There are applications that a loader backhoe is more productive but in the landscape world anyway there are not many. I think the same applies to small loader tractors they have a place just not in moving, digging or spreading soil as competetively as a skid steer. I hate to draw fire, but if it takes 1/2 an hour to move 20 yards of material your still too slow. With a ground speed of 12.5 mph, Ride Control and 83" bucket, I would have moved the material, back and forth several times and still had time for lunch in the same half hour.

[olderthandirt]

Originally posted by ksss
I will throw in on this one. I Last year at the site of a new Super Walmart I was loading topsoil into our truck with a 95XT skid steer. The soil had been piled with scrapers in the spring and was plenty hard by Fall. Because of the tough digging conditions I had the smaller 73" tooth bucket on. I was loading next to a 430D Cat Backhoe. His truck was 12 yard ten wheeled dump truck. I was loading a 20 yard semi trailer. On average I was 2 min. behind loading my larger truck then he was on a smaller one. The moral of the story is taking on a backhoe with a large skid steer can be done. If the material was softer allowing me to use my 83" bucket I would easily matched him truck for truck. We surpise excavators all the time on how much material we move with our large skid steer. There are applications that a loader backhoe is more productive but in the landscape world anyway there are not many. I think the same applies to small loader tractors they have a place just not in moving, digging or spreading soil as competetively as a skid steer. I hate to draw fire, but if it takes 1/2 an hour to move 20 yards of material your still too slow. With a ground speed of 12.5 mph, Ride Control and 83" bucket, I would have moved the material, back and forth several times and still had time for lunch in the same half hour.


And I can grab a cat payloader with a 4 yd bucket and move that 20 yds in 5 trips You're missing the point I was making lets compare apples with apples. IV'e got tracs and I have a skidsteer and they each have a purpose in landscaping. I don't use that old hoe except on my own property to dig stumps, the neighbors have it more than me. I was responding to a post that made a blanket statement that skidders are faster than tracs and that ain't the case all the time.

[kris]

This always seems to be a touchy subject ... With the kind of work that WE do...design- build, there is no comparing a tractor to a skid steer ... we have 3 skids each getting used 1200 hrs plus each season ... our mt50 had about 500 hours last season... our kubota loader -backhoe ( small one) only got used 250 hours.. couple of other older tractors barely moved out of the yard. It really does depend on the work your doing. Skid steers for us ..hands down.

[muddstopper]

I think the person at the first of this thread had the right ideal, rent until you figure out what you need. then you can come here and start your own spittin contest with the rest if these yahoos. most of these guys are right, different machines have there own places. One thing I have found that works best is to try and purchase the machine that is the most versitile for your type of work and then if you have a project that needs more or bigger then rent it. Notice the previous post that stated he had various other tractors that where barley used this year. In cases like this its cheaper to rent than own.

[bayfish]

28 hp diesel Massey Ferguson with bucket and bushhog comes in very handy. The FWD is essential to eliminate any tire spin on turf. It won't lift as much as a skid steer approx. 1000 lbs. but has a lot of uses.