Kohler Engines

[Dave]

Eric ,have you or any other members here,here from kohler about there 25hp failures,I had read the post that was put in by them back in early Oct.I have not seen any answers from them on questions that were ask to them about other failures that has happen with there 25hp right up date,I wonder if the letter that they wrote was mass copied to hand out to the dealers and the customers,as a pat on there back that they are taking care of the problem

[Eric ELM]

Paul Scholten from Kohler hasn't posted since that post you read. I just checked and he has 1 post. In this article http://www.kohlerengines.com/command_hp_help.html he said:

Questions?

If you feel the problem with your Command 25-hp engine has not been corrected, please contact us at kohler.engines.service@kohlerco.com and we will work with you to resolve it.

[Mr.Ziffel]

An interesting thing I noted was that he referred us to a web site discussing the fix, but it referred to 1998 problems! The information I've found on this site has led me to specify a 27LC Kawasaki when asking for a quote on the ZTR I intend to purchase this winter/spring. I wonder if Kohler realizes how much potential business they may be losing? When I've asked several dealers about this they act like they don't know anything about a problem--strange!
Will M.

[Sammy]

Some dealers dont want to scare you off. They want to sell you a new mower. One of my dealers said the same thing, he had not heard of any problems. The other said he had heard about some problems.

[John DiMartino]

Just so others,know I was contacted privately by Paul,after he read our posts.I gave him all the needed info on the engine as he requested.It has been 3 weeks-still hasnt reteurned my e-mails,or wrote back to tell me where we can go with it.So I think it was just to make us think they cared,they have no plans to actually make good on any of the bad 25's out there,unless we take them to court.The idea has been crossing my mind for quite some time.If anyone has a better plan let me know.

[lawrence stone]

John maybe Kohler does what do put out the labor to the Dixie dealer to R & R a new engine.

If they provided you a new engine in a crate would you
R & R the engines yourself?

This would not cost them any real money out of pocket except for motor freight to your door (less than $100).

If they can't do that I think a boycott of all Kohler products would be in order.

Or maybe it is time to give the NYS Dept. of Consumer Affairs a call.

[John DiMartino]

Id rather R&R it myself than have the dealer do it.It would take all of 1/2 hr including a coffee break and removing my trac-vac bracket.The only reservation I have is, will I go thru this all over again in 75 hrs.There is no guarantee that the new one will be any better.It is easier for me install it myself than to trailer it to the dealer.

[Edited by John DiMartino on 10-28-2000 at 01:17 PM]

[turfman99]

My Walker dealer replace my Command 25 without question. Of course, I let him know exactly what was at stake here. It was a broken crank shaft. Took them three weeks though.

I agree with John, better off to do the R&R oursleves. Thast how we fixed our 15 hp.

We can have these engine in and out in no time.

[John DiMartino]

Turfman,3 weeks is totally unacceptable.my dealer would have me running that same day if i got it there before 2pm.They stock 3 CV25's on the shelf,along with at least 7 other kohlers.Scarey part is now they sell as many Kawis'a as kohlers-I asked where kawi engines were-i wanted to look at them-He said we dont need to stock them-they havent given us any problems.Dealer is aware of my oil use and says to keep running it for now.I am starting to get a lower end noise at 3500and above,just started this week.Sounds like a rod to me,I never hated an engine so much until bought this 25.I try not to aggravate myself,im such a picky person who wants all my equiment to run just right,and sound good and tight.

[turfman99]

John,

Dealer provided me a loaner, even thought we had to put a battery in it and do some work to it, I did not lose any production. I do not know if he would do that for a smaller contractor, because I throw my multi unit weight around if I have to to keep my production running. I agree, three weeks is totally out of line.

Dealers do not stock anything out here. They feel because it's only 40 miles to metro Portland, they don't have to . We end up air freighting a lot of stuff direct from the factory.

Funny you should mention low end knock at 3500. The new motor they installed has that at about 10 hours. I am going out to mow my yard and pick up leaves with it in an hour. Hope it's not like the last time I did it.

All we want is equipment to perform and do it's job. I don't have these problems with my older Ford engines in my Stang and pickup.

[Getmow]

I too, listened to my dealer when he said all the problems with the 25 were fixed. So when I bought my third chopper this summer I bought the 60" flatlander with the 25. Now when I cut grass it sounds like 100 union carpenters working away and the power doesn't seemup to par.
I have just dropped it off at the dealer again. Stay tuned for more.

[John DiMartino]

I think the writing is on the wall here,these 25's have not been fixed like Paul said they were.If the head gasket was redesigned, mine wouldnt be on its second set right now.If the engine was fixed-they are still putting old ones into newer equipment,which shouldnt be.MowEd,good luck-from what Ive been thru with the 25,I have come to the following conclusion;Low power,burning oil,hard starting,especially cold,governor hunting, ticking lifters,blown head gaskets,ignition failures,blown mufflers,rod knock/piston slap and massive backfires are all normal,and the only ones that they will fix are head gasket replacement and smart spark modules.Unless the engine locks up solid,or literally breaks the crank in 1/2,they will not replace these known defective engines.It is not the dealers fault either-if they replace them-KOHLER wont re-imburse them,so dealer ends up eating it.

[TLS]

The reason some dealers are still pushing the Kohlers, is simple. The dealer can make alot of money on warranty. Kohler pays its warranty bills quicker than some regular customers. Kohlers are easy to work on, and once you did a few, you get real good (quick)at doing it.

I personally think it is an engine design problem. Possibly due to a 4 fastener head retaining system. There should be an equal distance between any 4 of the head fasteners (stud or bolt), the Kohler design doesn't allow for this.

In the meantime, I sold my Kohler 25 Vertical (DIXIE) and went with a 27hp LC Kawisaki.



[Edited by dixie1 on 10-29-2000 at 02:07 AM]

[turfman99]

John mention's lifter ticking. The Kohler regional house told me that because we had put 30W Chevron Delo in the unit they were denying warranty. They speced 10W30 in the book and said that would cause the lifters to not pump up. What a bunch of crap.Oil viscosity has nothing to do with lifters pumping up. The head bolt thing is a valid assumption also.

I would like to disagree on the dealer making money on the warranty work. Kohler may pay faster, but virtually all manufactuers do not allow the dealers enough time, nor do they rebate at the going shop rates for unwarranted repair.

Warranty repair has flat rates that are set at the factory. They do not take into account many variables. The rates they pay the dealers are at least 15% to 20% under the average shop rates in most areas. Been there and done that.