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View Full Version : 2 cycle equipment is bad for environment?


alpine692003
01-03-2004, 01:53 AM
Is it true that 2 stroke engines equipments such as the shindaawa's, stihl's, backpack blowers, trimmers are bad for the environment?

Richard Martin
01-03-2004, 03:05 AM
That all depends on who's perspective you're looking at the issue from.

I believe that all of the emissions from 2 stroke handheld lawn and garden equipment in the U.S.for 1 year probably doesn't add up to the emissions from 1 aging coal fired power plant running 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.

In Maryland coal fired power plants account for over 60% of emissions. The remaining 40% comprises everything else including automobiles, off road equipment, farm tractors, boats, aerosols, freons, chemical plants etc...

Outdoor power equipment which comprises of everything from bull dozers to boats to handheld 2 strokes makes up less than 4% of the total emissions.

Sometimes you see the analogy that one 2 stroke trimmer releases more emissions in 10 minutes than an automobile that is run for an hour. This may be true but the emissions from automobiles that are running at any given time far outweighs that from 2 strokes by simple virtue of number of automobiles to 2 stroke equipment.

Charlie Sierra
01-03-2004, 08:13 AM
I think in the big picture, Mr. Martin has the right take on it. However, two strokes do spit alot of their fuel right out of the exhaust which ultimately is not going to be a good thing environmentally and is certainly bad for business.

I have heard that 30% is a good figure for how much fuel the two strokes spit out their exhaust; can anybody verify this? If it is true, thats $30.00 right off the top of every $100.00 worth of oil and gas you buy and that is a pretty serious handicap if you think about it, especially if you run alot of equipment.

BTW, in the interest of remedies, has anyone here tried the Stihl 4Mix or the Honda four stroke trimmer yet? Opinions?

Sauls1686
01-03-2004, 08:15 AM
..or the echo Tornado Boost engines?

Martino
01-03-2004, 08:23 AM
The Tornado Boost Engine is unbelievably good! You don't have to worry about annoying valve maintenace either.

EvandSeby
01-03-2004, 08:24 AM
All of you not in the west, get ready for the new EPA "improvements"(term used loosely) on your two stroke machines. In Arizona, I can't even find most of the two stroke models discussed on this forum!!!! I wonder, in what other states this is taking place?

Richard Martin
01-03-2004, 08:44 AM
I'm not sure which side of the fence you're standing on "Charlie Sierra". If that is your real name....

Didn't some of your buddies knock on my door last year?

Kelly's Landscaping
01-03-2004, 01:12 PM
Thank Mr. Clinton for the clean air act another worthless coward president that makes laws that donít go into effect on his watch what a big gesture that was thanks Bill. If any one has studied for the pesticide supervisors license they will remember the LD50 rating which is leathal dose in 50% of lab animals even table salt or cola will kill you if you have enough parts per million. You want to call something unsafe everything on this planet will classify if you take charts like Mr. Gore and miss read them.

The emissions testing is a joke and has been since it was enacted Remember the dreaded green house gasses. You want to ponder a real fact a single volcanic eruption produces 40,000 times more cfc gasses then man has in his entire existence on this planet thatís the truth we are insignificant were little specks on this rock and couldnít harm it if we wanted to all we can do is make so we cant live here but the planet would recover just the same.

Read your label on the 2 cycle it says it can cause cancer if your concerned about that then donít use them. I can understand avoiding the exhaust for that reason but gas also causes cancer. Ahhhh so either way youíre screwed. Hereís a thought we do not mine any asteroids or other planets so everything on earth came from earth if that is so how can it be called pollution if the very stuff that is considered the pollutant came from the planet it is said to pollute. Can things be come inhospitable to man or unsightly yes definitely but in the big picture all we did was move around a few elements on the planets surface.

In the 1930s when we enacted social security for retirees age 65 you were suppose to be dead it was just incase the average life expectancy was 62 then. Now here we are with a huge problem which how to pay for all the retirees. We now live 78 or 80 years on average and it continues to go up. Thatís what nearly 25% more life in a mere 70 years if the environment was as bad as we are told why isnít that number going down and not up.

alpine692003
01-03-2004, 09:46 PM
Just a question, that's all :)

bastalker
01-03-2004, 10:19 PM
Everything nowadays is bad for the enviroment. Some more than others. I think 2 cycles fall at the bottom of the list.....

badranman
01-03-2004, 10:33 PM
I think Charlie Sierra was on the right path. A 2 stroke by nature is a worse pollutant than a 4 stroke. After the spark ignites the fuel and sends the piston on the downstroke, the cylinder has to rid itself of the exhaust and suck in more fuel for the next spark, all before the piston reaches the top again. During this overlap if you will, alot of fuel gets wasted and gets put out the exhaust.

musselman
01-03-2004, 10:41 PM
Kelly if your ever in Utah look me up I think we would get along real well....nice post. I dont know about the enviorment but 2 strokes are good for buisness...I also have a honda trimmer...great machine for the quick jobs...but to heavy if your going to use it for long periods of time.

Charlie Sierra
01-05-2004, 07:03 AM
Originally posted by Richard Martin
I'm not sure which side of the fence you're standing on "Charlie Sierra". If that is your real name....

Didn't some of your buddies knock on my door last year?

Hi Richard,

Please let me clarify: I agree with your position that the environmental impact of two stroke engines in LCO and/or homeowner service is non existent when compared to power generation and the huge numbers of automobiles choking our cities.

However, the side of the fence I stand on is the side where the profits are. If I can reduce costs and increase compliance with State and Local noise abatement and pollution regs (no matter how ill thought out or misguided as we know many are) by moving away from two stroke power plants, that equipment is as good as gone from my pool.

I used to work in the firearms business and have had to deal with more bad laws and assinine paperwork than many others but learned alot about innovation and adaptation. It is through the lens of this experience that I view the issue at hand regarding two stroke power plants.

BTW, my real name is William; Charlie Sierra is just my middle initials phoneticized as I could not think of an amusing LOGIN involving my name that was not already taken.

Best Regards!

Doster's L & L
01-05-2004, 05:53 PM
I tried the Honda 4-stroke in Louisville at the expo. I didn't like it. I was not impressed at all. I expected way more from a name like HONDA. It cranked up well, but it idled like absolute hell, jarring and shaking madly. It has plenty of power though from what i could tell. They didn't give me alot of tall weeds to test drive it in, so i cant tell you just how poewrful it is! Hope this helps!

Richard Martin
01-05-2004, 06:40 PM
Originally posted by Charlie Sierra
BTW, my real name is William; Charlie Sierra is just my middle initials phoneticized as I could not think of an amusing LOGIN involving my name that was not already taken.

Best Regards!

C.S.

I was just hazing you a little there William. A real Sierra Club member would have been spouting all kinds of garbage and making a mess of the enviroment here at Lawnsite!

ilovethisgame
01-05-2004, 10:57 PM
Originally posted by EvandSeby
All of you not in the west, get ready for the new EPA "improvements"(term used loosely) on your two stroke machines. In Arizona, I can't even find most of the two stroke models discussed on this forum!!!! I wonder, in what other states this is taking place?

Here in CA it's awful. The new 2 cycle machines I've used don't idle for sh-t and start after about 23 pulls on the rope AND THAT'S WHEN THEY'RE WARM! Stock up on the good stuff while it's available because in 2005 you will all join my equiptment hell.


-Dave