national landscape companies

[workorder]

I was wondering if any has any experience dealing with or working for any of the "national companies" in particular Brickman or Tru-Green. If so, what is your opinion of these companies and how has it affected you, the industry, and your opinion of things to come?

[Vandora Lawn & Landscape]

Brickman cuts my private-high school. They seem to do good work. But I've got a feeling there over priced. They just have that "feel".

[Eric ELM]

In the area we work, Brickman had a lawn there, but lost it. I didn't even see them around this season mowing any lawns in our area, but I do see them on the road. Their main office is close to us too.

[workorder]

Do you feel large companies are good for the industry and our reputation as whole, or do you feel they are a hinderance? My opinion is split and I am looking for some insight.

[cos]

I see Brickman and Davey Tree and Landscape in my area. They do a really good job. They always have 1 American driving and a truck load of the spanish dudes. They utilize their help very well. I never see them doing horrible work. I notice some flaws, but every one has them.

I have no idea how they affect us. They sure make themselves look good. Maybe we should idolize them, AND charge the same going rate.

[bob]

I subbed out a large fertiliztion job to Tru-Green. They only got it right on 1 out of 5 visits. I'm shopping around for another applicator.

[sunrise]

Tru- Green sucks they tell there guys to fert even if its raining.
Tru-Green Landcare is to big for there paints. They thank that they are the top dog in thr bussiness and they are but at about 3-5 Percent profit. They are losing a lot of big propertys in the D.C area.
I plow for them and do littl mow job for them.
Brinkman, interview in a lawn mag. he stated they only make about 3% on landscape project and the cost is the same as 1975 prices
Overall they help me I not huge and the people like to see me and know who is mowing there lawn instaed of this crew this week and another next week.
But they pay me more then I would nave charged to do the job for the cust.

[Toddppm]

I'm sorta in the same area as sunrise and tru-green does suck! I see them at about 20 different places in my area and they do a terrible job at all of them. They definately bit off more than they can chew around here.

[turfman99]

A topic near to my heart. Tru Green came in and bought up the bigest LC in the Northwest two years ago, that being Northwest landscape Industries. All their clients thought it was great. Until Tru Green began reducing services and reaping the profits. They have all the clients that care about pricing only. The quality of their work is terrible. It makes companies like mine look great. It makes prices like mine justified. They have a hospital for 2600 per month. That was $ 1200 less than our bid, but then again, we prune the shrubs and change the color, and fertilize more than 3 times per year. They make scrubs look like heros. I will have that contract back next year, you can bet on it. They lowered the bar for quality of services and they have horrific turnover. They got rid of or had quit almost 100% of the management staff that had been there over 10 years.

I saw a Davey Tree vehicle in Portland a couple of weeks ago, but I have not heard anything about that.

[SLC1]

We have Brickman around here and we have gone head to head in bidding jobs against them one we got one they got. The work I see is good and as said I always see one American foreman and 10 spanish workers on every job there on. I think that there pricing is fair and as long as they don't start undercutting then I have no problems with them. The way I see it is that there is way too much work out there to worry about competition. Also Brickman is usually doing large corporate accounts in our area, I have yet to see Tru-Green maintenance division around here, but we do have one U.S. Lawn's company, never really had to deal with them.Just my two cents

[Chuck Sinclair]

True Green Land Care is losing accounts faster then the speed of light here :D i have been asked to bid on a bunch of there accounts.

[Skookum]

I was a sub for both TruGreen/ ChemLawn and Brickman for a few years. Both paid me on time and were very good to work for as a sub. Brickman was best to work for, but they lost the national account I was doing for them. They did give the local account my name and number and a high reference.

I used TruGreen as my applicator on several commercial accounts until I got my applicators license. In fact they are why I got my license. They screwd me for three years. I told my rep I was worried about weeds not fertilizer. I agreed to 4 applications of weed and fert with the stress on weeds. They sprayed once in 8 apps. When I complained, I was told they did not spray established yards,(but they could charge me for it) just use granular and spot spray. When I complained they sent someone out to spot spray, they missed the worst area like they had for two years.

I had Yellow Nut Sedge. "Oh, we do not do that" they said. I had Crabgrass on a very special residential account. "Oh, there is nothing to kill Crabgrass" What is Trimec Plus, works great on crabgrass. Tried to get an additional app on Crabgrass preventer the next year for same lot, I said no. Later that next summer rep bragged about how the crabgrass did not come back, Hell no, I killed it with Trimec just like I did with the Yellow Nut Sedge.

They are pros at trying to talk you into doing things that you do not need. Tried a few years ago to get me to sign up for 2 apps of grub killer. Thier research center was predicting a really bad year for grubs and grub damage. I said no way. They seem to want to get more and not take care of what they had.

I got two of thier full service accounts on that very reason. Both places called me that last fall after the last cut I subed for them. When the TruGreen rep found out he called and said he thought I was a professional and they had a no competition policy with thier subs. He threatend to call and turn me in for not having a pesticide license. I told him I'd had a license since the summer. He was just ticked cause both accounts I got were on the top of thier list they show to prospective customers and they considered one of them as a showplace. It looks better now with me doing it all then it has in five years that they did it, I was told by the GM of the account.

I have seen thier people spray in a down pour on a 30 degree slope that ended at a lake! I have seen more granulars in the road and on the sidewalk then in the grass. I think they have severe employee problems. They get them to get a tech license so they can do fert and they worry about spraying when people call and complain.

This is my experience with them anyway.

[Edited by skookum on 10-30-2000 at 01:11 AM]

[Runner]

Tru brown, - or I mean ah, Tru Green doesn't do any maintenance around here, but they do some fert jobs, though. I have a customer that had them and another customer next door that didn't do ANY fertilization. You couldn't tell the difference in the appearance of their lawns. I told the fertizing customers they might as well save their $62.50 an app. They're not getting anything for it. Well, now I'm feeding their lawn, and it's twice as green and twice as thick as it EVER was with you know who.

[performanceturf]

Some of Tru greens former customers I know call them "The colored water spraying people." I love it when a potential customer tells me he has had them. I know I can do a better job and get my price.

[workorder]

I haven't read too many negatives on Brickman, but I guess Tru-Green is sticking it to a few people. I have seen Tru-Green and Brickman in my area, but am not familiar with too much of there work.

[bob]

If we all lost the % of accounts that Tru-Green loses every year, we'd be out of business!

[steveair]

hello,

I interviewed with brickman a few years ago, and they do have a impressive operation.

However, I do not feel that they are doing anything that is to worry about.

they focuss on larger accounts, and therefore aren't a threat for a majority of us smaller companies.

One thing I heard though, is that brickman will come in with some LOW bids if they really want an account. Had a friend said they went head to head on a bid and brickman came in at a price that he couldn't even imagine. They don't mind losing money for 1 year, being as they have a LOT to back them up. They then will bounce the price up big time upon completion of the first contract, and usually get the account the following year, making up for the loss. Big companies do some scary stuff.

As for there work, its allright. I've seen there crews, nice equip., nice uniforms, etc. etc. However, I've been mowing next door to them and say they are SLOW. Done twice the amount of mowing, leaving a better cut, than they did in the same time. I have yet to see a 'english' speaking foreman on there site, and wonder how they communicate with the client sometimes.

They really don't impress me. To me, they seem like the 'McDonald's' of the green industry.

steveair

[eslawns]

We have both around here. I have been underbid by both by so much money it makes me sick. They run over trash, and blow clippings and leaves into the street. I don't know how they can put in bids that are so low. They must pay everyone minimum wage.

[thelawnguy]

"I don't know how they can put in bids that are so low. They must pay everyone minimum wage."

Our local Brickman crews are 6:1 migrant/WASP supervisor.

And so is the secret of getting good accounts and making money-keeping your overhead low. You dont make money in this business by buying new trucks every year just so you can be "hip" with the latest vehicle style.

"brickman will come in with some LOW bids if they really want an account."

I have done this. After servicing the account for a couple weeks you put them on the elevator, usually you can get more money out of them, by then most co's schedules have been filled and they have nowhere to go. If not no real loss.

[Rodney Anderson]

16 years ago I began with the big guys and we took pride in our work people used to stop us to ask what we were doing and didnt hesitate to have us do their lawn.We use to drive by existing accounts just to see how they were doing. As compitition grew we had to lower app. prices increase dailey production do more lawns and quality went down hill.
What would you do if Chemlawn says we'll give a $500.00
sign on bonus and if you do 5,000 a week we'll give you 10%
of that at the end of the pay week. How fast do think they can go. Then the salesmen in only concerned about his or her commision, if company xyz will do it for 50.00 Chemlawn will do it for 40.00. Todays shopper is only interested in saving a buck or two. Then the applicator has to do the under priced lawn. to make that quota he's going go as fast as poissible and get to the other lawn.

[workorder]

Since I started this thread I have done some background research into Brickman. I noticed someone mention that they were the "McDonalds" of the industry, this is very true to the case. Brickman designed and installed the "McDonalds" World Headquarters and still maintains it to this day.

[workorder]

Starting with the fact that we are one of the most underpaid professionals in the work force, I find it hard to believe that so few people have an opinion on these large national companies. Volume of business has a tendency to dictate what a company can charge for their services and still maintain the profit margins they desire, I have read discussions on "kids" mowing lawns, but very little on the "Big Guys", what is your opinion? Is it that most operators don't care, or are they in it for the short term? I am really interested in what this group thinks.

Keep in mind one day the big guys will be knocking on Mrs. Jones' door to fill in the void between their large corporate national accounts, with the capacity to perform the work even under emergencies. Think about what it costs you to mobilize crews between sites!

[Edited by workorder on 11-04-2000 at 10:34 PM]

[osc]

I sub-contracted some fert and landscaping to tru-green and they did not even complete the work. I refused to pay the entire bill and they squealed like a stuck pig. I paid a portion and sent them a video tape of the uncompleted work. They still whined that they didn't make any money. I told them they should have known what they were doing when they quoted it to me in writing. After that I dropped them on a 10K fert job and they got a little torqued. They still leave me nasty messages about not returning their phone calls. Funny, they never were so quick to return mine when I was a customer.
In any event, I do my own work now and have satisfied customers. Some of my customers forbid Tru-Green from pulling on their lot. Like the time they used subbers to mow this particular account and they string trimmed the vinyl siding and tore holes in it on EVERY SINGLE BUILDING. I could see if a guy hit the siding once and said, " Oh no, I won't do that again! " But no, they weed whipped holes in the siding around all 18 buildings and then went on like nothing ever happened. The customer refused to pay any bills because Tru-Green refused to pay for the siding and the apt. manager caught some of the spray they were using and sent it off to be tested which came back as pure H2O. Tru-Green says they are dead-beats. I have the account now and they forbid any sub-contracting.

[Runner]

What does Brickman and Tru Green use to cut with? Years ago, when TruGreen cut here in central Michigan, they used those big ol' Toro Groundmasters.

[workorder]

Brickman boasts 4000 employees and Tru-Green 7000. About 25% of these employees are skilled and or have college degrees in horticulture. Does this scare anyone when corporate sites start looking at who the players are, human resources, or experience in this industry?

[Vandora Lawn & Landscape]

Brickman is underpays its staff, there lazer Z operator makes 8.25 an hour... Its ludicrous.

[steveair]

On what they pay.

Yes, brickman does have a very large percent of college degree professionals, along with a VERY large foreign work force.

There public relations is just undisputable. They have full time employees that do nothing but work on getting immigrants into the country to work for them. To try to compete with them on labor is very hard to do, considering they are running crews with a average pay scale of 7 dollars an hour per employee.

As for the college grads, I'll say this. When I graduated college, I interviewed with brickman and yes, they are a impressive company to young individuals. However, was the pay there.....Hell no. When I asked about 3 years ago, they started college graduates out at around 24k a year, and believe they work 50 hour weeks. I'm sure it has risen some, but you can work for just about any local company and easily make that and a hell of alot more. Also, that was for a job in the washington D.C. area. I couldn't imagine trying to live on 24k a year in D.C.

So, why so many grads? Because they really lay it on. Right out of college, most of these people have never really worked in the field, so to see the projects that they do is very impressive. Face it, they have it all, and as a start, a very good place to start.

However, I would be very interested in what there turnaround rate is for these young grads. I wouldn't be surprise if something like 80% leave after a few years, when they find out all there job consists of is driving around in a s10, checking on crews, and learning spanish. However, because they are HEAVY into recruitment, they can have a new batch of fresh college souls ready to go to replace them and to keep there '25%' college workforce quota.


Maybe just me, but I'd rather learn things for myself, and make money while doing it rather than sacrificing my self/income/body just for the privelidge of saying that I work for "BRICKMAN". Ya, I make mistakes, but I also make the money I want, and instead of getting pd. my 400 dollar salary for working on a 10k job for a week, I get pd 4k to work on a 10k job and hire some college kid home for the summer and pay him the 400 bucks.

steveair

[Ssouth]

Never heard of Brickman until I saw it here at LS. Tru Green only does apps in this area( as far as I can tell). Athough there are several big players in my area. Most of them started 8-10 years ago. I'm in my first year so I don't have much experience dealing with the bigger company's. I did just recieve a contract for the local utilities company. I bid against two larger operators and had the low bid. I could do so because I'm a one man show. Now I will have to hire one full time employee. These other two companys have several crews. I feel staying small I can have a better work/profit ratio.
Anyway my point is I like being small. I can provide quality service, charge more for it, and be there to make sure it is up to my standards.
Hope this makes sense to you.

Stuart H. South
Ssouth@Hiwaay.net

[workorder]

I guess some people will work for minimum wage. What about all the so called lawn care operators who carry no insurance, nor do they pay taxes. At least companies like Brickman fulfill there legal obligations. Is the English language really a prerequisite to work in this business, we should not forget this country is a melting pot. Years ago people complained about the Chinese, Polish, German..... etc immigrants. The Big question is not about crews nationalities, I am sure most of us are decendants of non native americans.

[workorder]

Does anyone work for any of the "national companies". What is your opinion of them or your competitors, and what do you think about companies this large?