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View Full Version : What Equipment Used For Large Seeding Jobs ,Over 1 Acre


Lawn Tek
01-09-2004, 01:16 PM
What type of equipment are you using for large , bare dirt , seeding jobs over 1 acre ?
Looking for specific makes and model # "s
Why do you like it , or dislike about it ?

1145JohnDeere
01-09-2004, 03:37 PM
We have seeded some industrial sites and use a 80 Hp JD 6300 and 14' disk to disc up the seedbed. We apply fertilizer with a buggy and seed using a Vicon pendulum spreader. I have a 16' seedbed finisher, actually an alfalfa roller, that we run over the seeded area. We then rent a Finn strawblower to blow the straw. On smaller jobs we have a Case 60XT with a 8' Harley, sometimes we use the finish box behind the tractor.

olderthandirt
01-09-2004, 03:58 PM
Harley rakes on tracs. Seed & fert using atv pulling broadcast spreaders and blow straw on. If over 35 acres we start using "farm equip" disk, cullypacker, grain drill, & then blow on straw. Tracs are New holland tc 30 & 45 atv is yamaha big bear with gears, straw blower is Goosen I like every thing about this set up, it took a lot of trial and error to figure out that this set up is what works best for my applications. On the bigger props I use a ford 5000 trac. Finn straw blower that I rent. I only do 1 maybe 2 of the larger props in a yr and have good results with the above mentioned.


Mac

teeca
01-09-2004, 04:33 PM
what about a ZTR with a jrco spreader? i have thought about getting one for fert. apps. thought it might work for seading also.

pjslawncare/landscap
01-09-2004, 06:01 PM
Ive only done smaller yards (up to 3/4 acre). Doesnt anyone use a gill any more, or am I not up to speed.

muddstopper
01-09-2004, 06:24 PM
Depends on how much over an acre we are talking about. 3 or 4 acres I use an areavator with a seedbox, bigger I rent a tractor and seed drill. If I cant drive over it I use a Bowie.

PLI1
01-09-2004, 07:12 PM
I use a gill rake, a Lely spreader to fertilize very large areas, broadcast spreader on smaller. Then I use an Olathe tractor mounted seeder. Its kind of a dinosaur, but it works. Then I blow on straw on level areas. Excelsior matting on slopes.

workaholic
01-10-2004, 07:29 PM
HYDROSEEDER....

olderthandirt
01-10-2004, 09:03 PM
Originally posted by workaholic
HYDROSEEDER....

Hydroseeder, only seeds they don't prepare thhe soil. If the soils not prepared right sod will even die. Its all in the prep work!

Mac

workaholic
01-10-2004, 10:14 PM
Originally posted by olderthandirt
Hydroseeder, only seeds they don't prepare thhe soil. If the soils not prepared right sod will even die. Its all in the prep work!

Mac I agree but the question was what type of seeder to use on 1 acre or more. he didnt ask how to prep the soil so the quickest method would be to use a hydro seeder.

olderthandirt
01-10-2004, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by workaholic
I agree but the question was what type of seeder to use on 1 acre or more. he didnt ask how to prep the soil so the quickest method would be to use a hydro seeder.

Then the correct awnser would be broadcast spreader if your seeding.

Mac

workaholic
01-10-2004, 10:27 PM
Originally posted by olderthandirt
Then the correct awnser would be broadcast spreader if your seeding.

Mac why would you use a broadcast spreader on such a big area? A hydroseeder will seed it fertilize it & mulch it elimanating alot of work for yourself..

olderthandirt
01-10-2004, 11:13 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by workaholic
why would you use a broadcast spreader on such a big area? A hydroseeder will seed it fertilize it & mulch it elimanating alot of work for yourself.. [/QUOT

I would use a broadcast spreader becuase its faster I have a hydro so I know what the difference in time is. I can seed and fert an acre in about 20 min. and then maybe another 30-45 min. to blow straw. Or I can spend the time hydroseeding and then filling my tank and mixing and starting again. And even if your using a nurse tank you have to stop and fill it up. And that does not include the clean up time, Also when you start talking about doing more than a few acres its not cost effective to your customers there not going to pay to have it hydroed and even if they would whats the benefits unless its kept watered its not going to grow any better.

Mac

chris08087
01-10-2004, 11:37 PM
refill? for an acre? you need one of these http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6729&item=2452605942

if I have to prep the site I will run a few tandem loads of t-soil in and grade it out with a dozer, hand rake, then seed. I find that I get better results by using a spreader, but I would say a hydro seeder is more efficient. spray once, and I put down lime, fert, seed, and stabilize it. it all depends on the situation.

muddstopper
01-11-2004, 12:40 PM
Its hard to give a specific answer when you dont know all the specifics of the job. Every answer given so far will work for the question as asked. I talked to lawn tek last nite so here are a few more spec. The job is a DOT road renovation in a state park. Area is approx. 13 acres. Some of the job is ditches and roadbanks. Job calls for seeding first and then applying mulch. Mulch can be straw or hydraulic wood or grass cellouse mulch. Havent figured out the grass cellouse mulch, never heard of it. Straw must be blown on and tacked after applying. Lime & fertilizer applied before seeding and worked into soil. Additional lime and fert. applied during seeding. Seed can be applied by broadcasting or hydroseeder. Havent seen the site but sounds like some area to steep for tractors, ect.. BFM will be used in some areas.
Now with this info lets see what kind of recommendations we get. And does anybody know what hydraulic grass cellouse mulch is. It should be noted that Lawn Tek doesnt own the equipment to spray wood mulch or bfm mulches. Not sure about a straw blower. And dont know about spraying grass cellouse mulch since he or I havent ever seen any.

muddstopper
01-11-2004, 01:16 PM
Spreader verses hydroseeder
If you are just broadcasting seed it would be extremly hard to beat a broadcaster. But if you must fertilize, lime and mulch after seeding I think it would depend on what size hydroseeder you where using. A 3000 gal seeder could possibly seed an acre per hour appling everything in one pass. If the land is steep a hydroseeder would probably be the best choice. But on wide open flat ground a tractor and a broadcaster along with a straw blower would be hard to beat even with a 3000 gal hydroseeder. Im not figureing loading time since you would have to load which ever piece of equipment you choose to use. The biggest advantage to the hydro seeder would be that the seed and fertiizer would be more drilled into the ground and in the event of not being watered it would probably give a thicker and more even stand as the mulch would tend to hold the nitrogen in the fertilizer and soil a little longer than just broadcasting it on top of the ground and covering with straw. On large jobs broadcasting is a lot cheaper than hydroseeding altho blowing straw requires more people. And if the area requires large amounts of lime you probably couldnt put it all down in one step with a hydroseeder.

olderthandirt
01-11-2004, 01:22 PM
I think grass cellouse mulch is the fancy name for matting, Its basicallly burlap that has straw seed and fert sewn in between the layers. In ohio thats What dot requires for ditches that have water flowing through most of the time. You can pin it in moving water and it still grows. Without seeing the spec sheet I'm just guessing but a question I have is this 13 acres all rd. or as you stated park area, if its park area I doubt that they would require the whole area be tacked. But if they would want the whole area tacked I would work it with trac as I stated in fact all would be the same except I would hydro mulch LIGHTLY with tack over the straw just to stick it.

Mac

workaholic
01-11-2004, 07:41 PM
Originally posted by olderthandirt
[QUOTE]Originally posted by workaholic
why would you use a broadcast spreader on such a big area? A hydroseeder will seed it fertilize it & mulch it elimanating alot of work for yourself.. [/QUOT

I would use a broadcast spreader becuase its faster I have a hydro so I know what the difference in time is. I can seed and fert an acre in about 20 min. and then maybe another 30-45 min. to blow straw. Or I can spend the time hydroseeding and then filling my tank and mixing and starting again. And even if your using a nurse tank you have to stop and fill it up. And that does not include the clean up time, Also when you start talking about doing more than a few acres its not cost effective to your customers there not going to pay to have it hydroed and even if they would whats the benefits unless its kept watered its not going to grow any better.

Mac Hydroseeding requires no need for straw, and I will stick with my opinion not to say that you are incorrect. It all depends on job site and conditions both procedures are achievable..

NCSULandscaper
01-11-2004, 09:49 PM
Right now we use a 3pt tiller, rotary spreader, and straw blower. Personally i think it would be quicker than a hydroseeder and get the same results from what i have seen.

sawdust
01-12-2004, 01:59 AM
Brillion turfmaker sets seed 1/4 to 1/2" under surface keeping seed moist. No need for straw on level ground. Why put weed seed on lawn with straw?

AztlanLC
01-12-2004, 02:22 AM
I have seen many lawns fry after they star germinating for the lack of straw and lack of water also, straw will help a lot to stablish a lawn if properly apply, it sure will bring some weeds to the area also but you have to make sure you buy your straw from a respectful company and dont get hay.
Grass seed also contains weeds seeds, the amount is on the label, you have to choose a good brand also.

I always put straw in a large area or hydroseed, don't put lime unless you test the soil, starter fertilizer is good also, but the best recommendations is to do a soil test before applying any seed.

olderthandirt
01-12-2004, 09:28 AM
Originally posted by sawdust
Brillion turfmaker sets seed 1/4 to 1/2" under surface keeping seed moist. No need for straw on level ground. Why put weed seed on lawn with straw?


Becuase bid sheet calls for it!!:dizzy:

Mac

Lawn Tek
01-12-2004, 10:13 AM
Good topic , The drill jobs I have seen , evidentaly the drill was not as wide as the tractor , leaving wheel paths after it came up .
What kind of drill is the best ? I understand they won't work on a hill , why ?

olderthandirt
01-12-2004, 10:29 AM
I use a landpride and it will work on hills to point, as far as tire tracks you have to cross ower it at a 90 degree angle. If this is DOT work, talk with the inspector or field engineer for the project they usually are not that picky. Its the guy that sits in the office that draws up all the plans that puts the specs in and they have know idea what will work at a particular site At least thats the way it is in Ohio. Drive n. on I-71 and you will see alot of my work. You need to meet with the state inspector for the job I believe you will find out its noy that hard.

Mac

NCSULandscaper
01-12-2004, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by sawdust
Why put weed seed on lawn with straw?

Exactly what kind of weeds are you getting out of wheat straw?

Only thing you will get is the occasional wheat sprig which will die off in heat. You can consider wheat a weed when its in grass but its no big deal, unless you are combining crab grass and putting t he clippings down instead of straw, its not causing a real problem. Always have used straw and always will use straw.

Old Red
01-12-2004, 01:08 PM
NCSULandscaper, After you broadcast seed do you rake and/or roll it?

NCSULandscaper
01-12-2004, 02:48 PM
Originally posted by Old Red
NCSULandscaper, After you broadcast seed do you rake and/or roll it?

Usually just put a section of chain link fence behind the tractor to disturb the seed just a little bit. But you dont want to overdo it.

Lawn Tek
01-12-2004, 07:21 PM
Ya'll quote this
750000 sq ft
seeding fescue - not hydroseeding
fertilize
straw
site is flat with easy access

now quote ground prep , site will brought up to grade specs, all you have to do is prep for seeding with machine/s

NCSULandscaper
01-12-2004, 09:48 PM
Originally posted by Lawn Tek
Ya'll quote this
750000 sq ft
seeding fescue - not hydroseeding
fertilize
straw
site is flat with easy access

now quote ground prep , site will brought up to grade specs, all you have to do is prep for seeding with machine/s


Roughly $17,200 including supplies and labor

MWS LAWN
01-12-2004, 10:53 PM
NCSU, with your quote I calculate that you are only charging an est. $420.00 per acre. That is a lot of work for that amount of money. I figure materials will run est. 10,000.00 with 10 lbs. seed per 1000sq. ft. and one bale straw per 1000. I could not install for that price. We use a woods super turf renovator with seed box- 72" and 4310 4x4 J.D. for installations.

NCSULandscaper
01-12-2004, 11:17 PM
Originally posted by MWS LAWN
NCSU, with your quote I calculate that you are only charging an est. $420.00 per acre. That is a lot of work for that amount of money. I figure materials will run est. 10,000.00 with 10 lbs. seed per 1000sq. ft. and one bale straw per 1000. I could not install for that price. We use a woods super turf renovator with seed box- 72" and 4310 4x4 J.D. for installations.

Calculate your figures again...

750,000 sq ft is a tad over 17 acres

at $1000 per acre comes to just over $17,000

Lawn Tek
01-13-2004, 09:06 AM
N C S U , your price is a tad over .02 cents a foot , for straw , fert , seed . prep am I correct ?

B T W , what was the big tall white boy who played for N . C. who
turned arround and hit the luckiest shot in N C A A basketball history , beating my beloved , multichampion Ky Wildcats out of another title some years back ?:D :D

NCSULandscaper
01-13-2004, 11:32 AM
Yup that would be correct. At that price i can make a very nice profit.

Tractor work would cost me roughly $1,000
Straw costs me $500
Straw blower rental would be $100
Seed would be $5400
Fertilizer depending on soil tests, average price would be $170

Total material costs $6170
Tractor work cost $1000

Total cost i have in the job is $7170 with a $10,030 profit.

For that many acres i might consider a discount on the work.

NCSULandscaper
01-13-2004, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by Lawn Tek
B T W , what was the big tall white boy who played for N . C. who
turned arround and hit the luckiest shot in N C A A basketball history , beating my beloved , multichampion Ky Wildcats out of another title some years back ?:D :D

Was it for NC State, Duke, or UNC?

MWS LAWN
01-13-2004, 11:59 AM
NCSU, My figures are correct- after materials you will make est. $420.00 per acre. I think I misled you. I know what the acreage is. I took out material cost from the quote you gave and divided it by 17. On a install of this size I would have to include enough money to make sure all 17 acres gets watered, depending on the weather conditions you could go in the hole if you have to have your help out there every other day watering grass and not charge enough for it up front. Example- watering 3 times per week for 3 weeks on average. Thats 9 waterings. Est. 2 to 3 men per day to move waters hoses around. 16 to 24 hours X 9. Est 180 man hours at 10.00 per hour= $1800.00. Now you are at $315.00 per acre with out paying your help for the install. I know that watering was not asked to be in the quote, but you had better figure it in, because I know if the grass was not to come up or if it was bare in spots it going to cost you alot more. So after paying for help, use of my tractor and seeder, diesel, etc. I would have to make more that .006 cent per sq. ft.

NCSULandscaper
01-13-2004, 02:03 PM
Watering was not mentioned so i did not include that. Which i am not responsible for watering anyhow, thats stated with the contract that the customer is responsible for all watering. My tractor work is subbed out and my man would only charge around $1000 for that area. He just does this as a hobby and not dependant to make a living doing this so i get it cheap. So basically all i have to do is load the seed in his spreader and blow on the straw. 2 days worth of work for me at the most. Thats basically why i dont have to charge as much, my overhead is alot lower than yours.

Since i am solo and only have part time helpers when i need them, i wouldnt even think of watering 17 acres of grass with hoses. You need a large irrigation system to even think about getting enough water on that large an area, its just not practical i dont think.

MWS LAWN
01-13-2004, 02:58 PM
There is no need in furthering this conversation. We are not comparing apples with apples here. You said it all when your are subbing a professional service as a hobby job to a man that does it on the side. Where as my company is a full service incorporation that installs and maintains the job that our name is on. BTW where can I find straw in N.C. for 500.00 that would cover 17 acres?? 500.00 would only buy an est. 140 bales here. That is nowhere close to enough. I would like to see $500.00 worth of straw be blown and cover 17 acres!

Lawn Tek
01-13-2004, 04:35 PM
Yall chill out ,N C S U , I think the straw figure is way low too .How many bales are you figuring ? Also , preping 17 acres for 1000.00 is one hell of a low price .
M W S what would your price be ?

1145JohnDeere
01-13-2004, 06:02 PM
BTW Lawn Tek, that job muddstopper mentioned is a job I bid on yesterday. Don't forget prevailing wage.

NCSULandscaper
01-13-2004, 06:52 PM
Originally posted by MWS LAWN
There is no need in furthering this conversation. We are not comparing apples with apples here. You said it all when your are subbing a professional service as a hobby job to a man that does it on the side. Where as my company is a full service incorporation that installs and maintains the job that our name is on. BTW where can I find straw in N.C. for 500.00 that would cover 17 acres?? 500.00 would only buy an est. 140 bales here. That is nowhere close to enough. I would like to see $500.00 worth of straw be blown and cover 17 acres!


Ohh ok i see how it is, just because i dont own a tractor and hire someone that does it cheap, i dont run a true business. Well ill tell you right now thats a bunch of crap. What does it matter if he does it for a hobby basically, he does a good job, and is fully covered by insurance. And when you can get straw for $1.75 a bale, you have enough to blow over the area, its not like it has to be a 4" thick coating of straw.

cantoo
01-13-2004, 08:43 PM
Flat site would mean not as much starw needed I would think.
Never said to include water in quote, of course he never mentioned cutting either maybe we should add that to the price.
I am also a hobby guy I probably wouldn't bid something this big but I do have the equipment to do it if needed. Rental shop.

olderthandirt
01-13-2004, 09:15 PM
This is one of my main money makers [roadside renovation] I own all my equipment and I would bid it at 3-4 cents a square ft. without looking at it. In Ohio Straw $1 bale.


Mac

Lawn Tek
01-13-2004, 10:47 PM
Originally posted by 1145JohnDeere
BTW Lawn Tek, that job muddstopper mentioned is a job I bid on yesterday. Don't forget prevailing wage.

I Didn't