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Blades of Steel
01-17-2004, 01:07 PM
I have a neighbor kid I was thinking of taking out this season just to pick up trash and run a 21" mower. He is 15 years old and has nothing to do all summer so I was thinking of giving him a shot to making a little money over the summer. I was going to pay him 6 $ an hour but not make him work like a dog either. If he works out I could pay him more money next season.

What's your take on this idea? Legally or whatever?

Tim

PROCUT1
01-17-2004, 01:46 PM
I dont knowabout in your area, but in Ny you cannot employ someone under the age of 18 to operate power equipment. Also your insurance probably wont cover him. Nice idea but with everybody and their "mother" hint hint.......looking to sue......its kinda risky.

Ground Effects NH
01-17-2004, 02:17 PM
Tim
I have been doing this the past two summers.
So far it has worked out great, for the kid's and me also.
In my circumstance only need them couple times a week,on my large residential jobs thy weed, dead head flowers, water, fluff mulch, mow "push only", string trim, plant flowers or bulbs, misc.
Have spoken to all property owners prior and
ALL thought it was a great idea! One of the owners, daughters works with me (but she will not work on her on property:D ) Have hired young boys and young lady's (some of the young lady's will put the boys too shame) Come spring, will have 7-8 kids calling to work. I stress the attention to detail and it really show! I think the kids enjoy it (keep coming back) ya it's probably the $$

The kids are out of trouble also little cash in there pocket !!

Bill

Avery
01-17-2004, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by PROCUT1
I dont knowabout in your area, but in Ny you cannot employ someone under the age of 18 to operate power equipment. Also your insurance probably wont cover him. Nice idea but with everybody and their "mother" hint hint.......looking to sue......its kinda risky.

Put me down for a "no" vote also for the reasons stated above.

cuttingchris
01-17-2004, 02:25 PM
i started mowing when i was 14 and so did 2 other guys on my crew

PROCUT1
01-17-2004, 02:38 PM
i dont mean to sound negative about this as i started real young myself....

Kelly & Sons
01-17-2004, 02:56 PM
I started when I was 13 years old... I think it's ok... I would let them on any of the riding mowers though... and would probably keep them limited to raking, blowing, watering, planting, etc... I have one of my little sisters friends wash my machinery about once a month... pay him $6 an hour... and he cleans up all the mowers...

GTLC
01-17-2004, 02:58 PM
I am planning to hire a 16-year old buddy of mine next season to assist me for mowing.

macaw
01-17-2004, 03:05 PM
I have worked my son 4 years this will be his 5th Started out at 5.00 per hour Up to maybe 8.00 this year he can do everything I
can knows all the jobs and what to at each one.He started at age 13.

Blades of Steel
01-17-2004, 06:03 PM
Thanks for all the feedback. I will check local laws and also talk to my insurance agent. I really need him to pick up trash, run the billy goat push vacuum, drag bags to the curb and hand pull weeds. Other than that he MIGHT push a mower on small stuff. Not too hip on him mowing yet (i have seen his fathers yard).

But all of you make good points in all of your replies.

Tim

BigEd
01-17-2004, 06:47 PM
Originally posted by n1alx
I am planning to hire a 16-year old buddy of mine next season to assist me for mowing.

How is somebody that is 16 going to hire someone else that is 16? Your not legal yourself, so you can hire someone that is 4 it still dont matter!:rolleyes:

GrassBustersLawn
01-17-2004, 08:05 PM
Check with your state rules. In Indiana no one under 16 can operate power equipment. So he could shovel mulch and sweep up but not mow, trim, blow, etc.

Check first! Not worth it if you have the CHANCE of running a-foul of some local rule.

MIKE

FrankenScagMachines
01-17-2004, 09:52 PM
Originally posted by GrassBustersLawn
Check with your state rules. In Indiana no one under 16 can operate power equipment. So he could shovel mulch and sweep up but not mow, trim, blow, etc.

Check first! Not worth it if you have the CHANCE of running a-foul of some local rule.

MIKE
I was doing my LCO when I was still 15. also when I was 14 I worked at a JD dealer and mowed about 6 acres +/- with a 54” 25hp JD ZTR, ran string trimmer, etc. also I got to drive anything on the grounds from riding mowers to Gators to utility tractors with attachments (just to move them out of the way to mow).

I think the 16 and under law is really stupid. Most kids wouldn’t be doing this work at that age unless they enjoyed it and knew what they were doing anyway. If they know what they’re doing, they’re no less safe than anyone else honestly (if they’re experienced and not being stupid about it).

Kelly's Landscaping
01-17-2004, 10:04 PM
Its 18 here in Ct to operate equipment. Only way I would hire some one under 18 to do that kind of work is if he was my son. And seeing that I do not have any that I know of I don’t think that will be an issue for many years to come.

As for non-equipment use jobs perhaps when I get larger and have regular work in that area then Maybe but now it’s just to few of those jobs to even consider hiring children. My ex boss use to have some 15-16 year old girls plant flowers at the gas stations he maintained each year and that got allot of looks and even a few contracts but I never felt it was fair to them being unemployed the following week. When the flower planting ran out.

Kelly's Landscaping
01-17-2004, 10:19 PM
Eric the law may or may not be stupid I sure thought it was when I was 16 and couldn’t use a cardboard ballier at work and when I was 15 and couldn’t get work. But just look back 100 years ago and your understand why the laws are there 11 and 12 year old miners dieing of lung diseases before they were 20. Or being maimed for life in a factory before life even began like it or not kids make impulsive decisions and with power equipment that could be all it takes to lose a hand or worse. One thing that makes this country quote modern and civilized is its child labor laws. I will never defend education and lie to you and say it will make your life better if you only had gone to collage but high school is a bit different isn’t it while writing and spelling are over rated math can never be impressed on young minds enough. If you cant spell a few words on your contract no biggy but if you cant calculate your monthly invoices or balanced your checkbook your screwed.

bob
01-17-2004, 10:19 PM
I taught my son to run the ZTR when he was 13. He would help me with some wharehouse properties(nothing that he could turf up). Now he is 16 and is my right hand man. I pay him $10 per hour -over the table. He also cuts 5 lawns in our development. He has no overhead. I let him use my mowers at will. He is like a clone of me. Most of his earnings go directly into the bank or his IRA account.

tiedeman
01-17-2004, 11:31 PM
The only legal thing that I know about working kids under 18 years of age is that they can only work a certain number of hours a week especially during the shcool year.

GTLC
01-17-2004, 11:35 PM
A. my second man will only be operated a string trimmer, blower, and maybe a 21" mower.

B. My father is a lawyer and he can take care of all the legal crap for me

Avery
01-17-2004, 11:49 PM
Wrong is wrong. And running equipment underage is wrong. Guess it is OK for you though....you have daddy to take care of it if something bad goes wrong. Answer me this though. Is daddy gonna support this kid the rest of his life if he gets severly injured on the job? No? Didn't think so. :rolleyes:

Expert Lawns
01-17-2004, 11:55 PM
The only time I have young kids helping me is in the spring when I have my nephews rollerblade door-to-door hanging my ads. I would be skeptical to hire a young person, responsible or not, accidents happen. and when you're around gas, oil, chemicals, and high powered lawn mowers with decapitating abilities, I would just want to make sure that they were aware of the potential harm.

Turf Medic
01-18-2004, 12:29 AM
In Nebraska you can't run any equipment under 18, unless you are working for your parents. Big fines if caught, all it takes is a small injury to catch you up in this. A small rock to the eye or anything like that will force the attending physician to report you, even if it doesn't cause permanent damage.

Soupy
01-18-2004, 04:48 AM
I think the under 18 lawn is federal. You can't legally operate a dishwasher under 18 (I'm talking like at a resturant, not at home) The only way around this law is if you work for your parents.

For all you kids out there thinking you are operating a professional lawn care business, Your not. You can not leagally sign a contract for anything. This includes insurance policies. You might get by with it. But if you ever hurt anyone while cutting a so called customers grass, they are going to be up the river without a paddle. The insurance will use your age as a loop hole. How are you going to feel about hurting someone then makeing the customer lose everything they have paying for your mistake.

I'm sorry, But this really gets under my skin. There is plenty of jobs for kids to do, why are they messing up the green industry?

Soupy
01-18-2004, 04:54 AM
Originally posted by Turf Medic
In Nebraska you can't run any equipment under 18, unless you are working for your parents. Big fines if caught, all it takes is a small injury to catch you up in this. A small rock to the eye or anything like that will force the attending physician to report you, even if it doesn't cause permanent damage.

And don't think it can't happen either. I was operating a Brush hog once and my dad drove up next to me with his window down. A rock flew out and broke his glasses. Think god he was wearing glasses or he would have lost an eye.

I'm sorry, I won't preach or rant anymore on this topic.

Soupy

BigEd
01-18-2004, 05:22 AM
Originally posted by n1alx
A. my second man will only be operated a string trimmer, blower, and maybe a 21" mower.

B. My father is a lawyer and he can take care of all the legal crap for me

A. Oh that stuff listed is not equipment?? My fault.LOL:rolleyes:

B.I dont care if your dad is the Pope.

BigEd
01-18-2004, 05:26 AM
Originally posted by Soupy
For all you kids out there thinking you are operating a professional lawn care business, Your not. You can not leagally sign a contract for anything. This includes <A TITLE="Click for more information about insurance" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||insurance|AA1VDw">insurance</A> policies. You might get by with it. But if you ever hurt anyone while cutting a so called customers grass, they are going to be up the river without a paddle. The insurance will use your age as a loop hole. How are you going to feel about hurting someone then makeing the customer lose everything they have paying for your mistake.

I'm sorry, But this really gets under my skin. There is plenty of <A TITLE="Click for more information about job" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||job|AA1VDw">job</A>s for kids to do, why are they messing up the green industry?


Couldnt say it better myself.I have nothing against young people mowing a few lawns for money here and there,just dont portray yourself to be something your not, a legitimate LCO!

BigEd
01-18-2004, 05:27 AM
oops

Blades of Steel
01-18-2004, 10:10 AM
Well, I have opened a serious can of worms here. I guess my idea sucks all the way around. I was just trying to give the kid something to do over the summer as I did when I was his age. I guess times have changed over the past 20 years.

Too bad, I thought i could put a little cash in his pocket over the summer.

I wasn't looking for cheap labor just trying to help a neighbors kid make a little money. He comes down when I am working on my equipment. Hnags out and wants to learn. He stutters real bad so I thought it would be a job where he wouldn't have a lot of public conversing. Therefore help him grow a little without the teasing that the kids would do at McDonalds, Wendy's and places like that.

Not to mention I would rather have my son do lawn care at that age, teaches them to work hard.

Tim

Soupy
01-18-2004, 10:17 AM
Tim, my comments were not directed at you, it was directed at the kids talking about when they started their so called LCO.

It would be fine to hire a kid to pick up trash etc., just don't let him run equipment. Also if he is under 16 make sure he gets a work permit if he needs one.

dreamertex
01-18-2004, 12:00 PM
I can easily relate to your thoughts about helping a young person with a job. But as Soupy stated true facts, also the customer could be partially liable of any "accidents" involving this person. Not just the Federal and Local authorities would be looking for violations of any wrongful practices but the Almighty Lawyers that see large settlements by attacking a piece of all involved...ie LCO, Customer, and if possible eguipment manufacture. I think many of us have wanted to do similar deeds and unfortunately have to make decisions that do not seem just.

JohnK
01-19-2004, 07:52 PM
I was going to pay him 6 $ an hour but not make him work like a dog either. If he works out I could pay him more money next season.

What's your take on this idea? Legally or whatever?

That's below minimum wage in Washington ($7.16 per hour) and applies to workers in both agricultural and non-agricultural jobs. Fourteen- and 15-year-olds may be paid 85 percent of the adult minimum wage.

If you decide to do it inspite of all the other replies you might want to verifiy what the minimum is in your state.

PROCUT1
01-19-2004, 10:42 PM
i thought minimum wage law is federal?

Soupy
01-19-2004, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by PROCUT1
i thought minimum wage law is federal?


Procut, there is a federal minimum. But on top of that there can be state minimums which are higher.

MikesLawnServiceLLC
01-19-2004, 11:20 PM
I'm sorry, I never meant to offend any of the landscapers in my area when I was ten years old, found a Bolens Lawnkeeper in my neighbors trash, totally restored it ON MY OWN WITHOUT MOMMY OR DADDY's MONEY, and started cutting lawns in my neighborhood. I didn't mean to take the 4 customers away from any legitimate business paying taxes. But, I was ten years old, I did it on my own. Doesn't that count for something? I payed for the parts from money i saved from my first job (I GOT WHEN I WAS SEVEN). I used to rake Mr. Remington's yard every friday for three dollars and a hamburger. Took me 3 hours.....didn't know much about minimum wage when i was that young. But I DID IT. I'm only 20 now, but some of my customer's ive had for ten years, and I thought that was a good thing. I study Landscape Architecture at Temple University, Ambler Campus, Pennsylvania...again I PAY FOR IT MYSELF. I own and operate a LEGITIMATE landscaping business now, however I don't think i would have gotten blessed to be this far unless I started young. In the words of Frank Sinatra...."I did it my way..." ps another LEGITIMATE landscaping company in my area even recommended some of its smaller customers to me....when I was twelve.


Thanks,

Mike Platt:blob2:

Soupy
01-20-2004, 12:15 AM
Originally posted by MikesLawnServiceLLC
I'm sorry, I never meant to offend any of the landscapers in my area when I was ten years old, found a Bolens Lawnkeeper in my neighbors trash, totally restored it ON MY OWN WITHOUT MOMMY OR DADDY's MONEY, and started cutting lawns in my neighborhood.

This doesn't offend me (even though i'm sure it did to the guy you lowballed). I'm offended by the 10-17 year olds going around pretending to be a legitimate business.

The biggest insult I have ever had, was when my aunt came to visit my parents. I stopped in to say hello and she says "I hear you do lawn care, My son does the same thing you do. He handed out flyer's around the neighborhood and makes pretty good money." Her son was 10 years old at the time. I had $20,000 in equipment, insurance, payed taxes and had what is called overhead, and she is telling me that her son that goes around using other people lawn-mower cutting grass was in the same business as me.

That's probably the reason I have a strong feeling on this subject.

Soupy

MikesLawnServiceLLC
01-20-2004, 02:19 PM
Well, actually the four customers were going to look for a landscaping company but before they did I came along and they became my first "customers". Hey, I understand the strong feeling, because that same situation would insult me (the one you were in). I now have lots of overhead and I dislike lowballers that try to take the good out of the business. I won't hold anything against a young dude who made it on his own though. I don't want to be a hypocrite, just a constructive criticiser. :-) Good to meet you guys by the way, I've been a a member since Feb of 2003 but could never post but I finally straightened it out with administration so here i am. Glad to be talking to a bunch of good landscaper/lawn guys. -Mike

grassrootsinab
01-20-2004, 03:13 PM
Here in Alberta there are no restrictions on the type of work kids over 14 can do. I teach full-time and know some really good workers (farm kids etc.) who work around heavy equipment all the time. I've hired a couple of 16-18 year olds to run a 21" mower the last 3 summers and it works pretty well. They are making $8/hr (minimum is 5.90) but I figure you get what you pay for. Also I MAKE SURE THEY ARE WEARING THE SAFETY GEAR (ear muffs/ear plugs/safety glasses/sheilds) and I have workman's comp coverage. It also helps that I'm friends of the family. My customers appreciate the work they do (other offers to paint, clean windows and shovel walks), in fact last summer, my employee got a job haying with one of my customers running the baler and covering stacks. I don't see a problem with it as LONG AS IT'S LEGAL IN YOUR JURISDICTION!!

will123
01-20-2004, 05:17 PM
I started working with my dad's buisness when i was 12. Using blowers ,weed wacking, weeds mulc. I didn't start using the riding moweres till I was about 15. I don't think its a problem if its your own child but some other kid from the neighborhood could get u some law suits if the gett hurt on power equipment!!!!

Soupy
01-20-2004, 06:19 PM
Originally posted by will123
I started working with my dad's buisness when i was 12. Using blowers ,weed wacking, weeds mulc. I didn't start using the riding moweres till I was about 15. I don't think its a problem if its your own child but some other kid from the neighborhood could get u some law suits if the gett hurt on power equipment!!!!

I agree, If your working for your parents, then it's all legal. Any mis-fortunes would fall on the parent (business owner). I will have my son work for me when he gets about 14.

By the way, I never said a 14yr. old couldn't be a good worker. It's just illegal to hire them to run equipment, and for them to play pretend business owners:nono:. I started working when I was 14 for a ice company. I started out just cleaning up around the place and moved up the ladder as fast as the law would allow. I worked there until I was 21 and was 4th out of 60 in seniority.

Soupy

Larr Bump
01-20-2004, 06:23 PM
All it would take is one accident to put you out of biz.

mh1314
01-20-2004, 09:47 PM
A friend of mine who has a equipment rental company is awaiting her fine for allowing a 16 year old to make deliveries and operate equipment. Also working too late on a school night.

mrusk
01-20-2004, 10:00 PM
Yes the law saw no one under 18 can operate mowers, however this law is often overlooked by many people in my area atleast. I have been framing houses since i was 13. By 14 i was using nail guns, driving the lull, saws, drills, etc. When i was 15 i worked in a trailer shop. I didn't weld, however i did use sanders, grinders, plasma cutters. I never got hurt. If i did it proably would of been my fault and i would of taken responsiblity for it. Both people i worked for were close friends of my family. I thank them for the oppertunitys and skills i learned working with them. I know a hell of alot more about carpentry than those kids who been going to tech school for 4 years.

matt