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GeoffDiamond
11-01-2000, 06:19 PM
I heard this today, I am not sure how true it is so don't get your hopes up.

Ford is currently developing a 6.X diesel engine, many people have said this engine would be the replacement for the 7.3. However I have heard today, this engine is a "baby" powerstroke, designed for the F-150 and Expedition. The 7.3 will still be used in the Super Duties.

Again these are only rumors, I am not sure if Ford plans to keep the Powerstorke (Navistar 444-E) or use a smaller Powerstroke in the Superduties, and the F 150 and expedition may never see Diesel.

Geoff

plowking35
11-01-2000, 08:53 PM
From what i have heard the 6.0 is the replacement for the 7.3PS.Notice I didnt say pos. Anyway, they are also developing a smaller diesel for the applications you mentioned. Seems as epa gives tighter guidlines for gas engines, diesel is considered as an alternantive fuel source.
So as time goes on you will see more auto makers offering diesel in different product lines.
Geoof you should really check out http://www.forddiesel.com
They will have alot of this info available for you.
Not to beat a dead horse, but the new duramax is in some way what has motivated the developement of the new 6.0. Also epa is making diesels exaust to much tougher constraints, along with reclassifing trucks to more stringent pollution controls. So the old T444E just isnt able to meet these requirements. Thus a new engine is being developed. Also I hear that ford loses around 2K per power stroke option on every truck they sell, so they are trying to work a better deal with INT on this new engine, by footing alot of the developement costs.
Dino

[Edited by plowking35 on 11-02-2000 at 02:00 AM]

GeoffDiamond
11-01-2000, 08:55 PM
Dino, thanks for the website, been reading it for almost a year now. I make sure my engines get the additive every 15K.

I really hope the 6.0 is for the F 150, Long live the all mighty 7.3. I almost cried when the 306 and 351 died.

Geoff

eskals
11-01-2000, 09:38 PM
Geoff:

I believe that the 6 liter will be put in the super duties. I have also heard that it is going to be a camless engines with electronically operated valves (although it won't be introduced as camless for a few years after it is out). The little diesel you talk about will be a baby to the 6 liter. It will be 4.5 liters and be put in the F150 and Expedition.

Ford is also developing a new 5R110 Auto Trans.

Eric

plowking35
11-01-2000, 09:45 PM
I just went to my GM diesel site,(funny how you can get the ford info on a gm member site) and the baby PS will be a v-6 for the 150 and expedition, and maybe even the ranger. I am surprised that the ford site doesnt have more info for you blue oval guys, the GM site has had info on the duramax for over 2 yrs now. Guess thats just one more thing that gm does better.(I know that was uncalled for, but I couldnt resist)
Dino

GeoffDiamond
11-01-2000, 09:53 PM
So, Dino whats the address? I don't mind reading about some GMs to get the dirt on a real truck. Are you saying the 6.X is for the F 150, Expedition, and maybe the ranger? Or are you talking about a different motor all together? Never mind, just give me the address.

Geoff

plowking35
11-01-2000, 10:02 PM
http://www.62-65-dieselpage follow the forum link
The 6.0 is for the 250 and up line. I dont know if it will affect the 550 or not. GVW means alot to the epa on emmissions.
Then there will be a smaller v-6 diesel for the 150 and so on.

DaveO
11-02-2000, 04:42 PM
Geoff,

The info I have heard is same as Dino. The 6.x will replace the 7.3 in the Ford SD's. A smaller version is slated for the lighter trucks. The EPA is puttin pressure on the diesels, causing the new designs coming out. You might want to hold on to your 7.3's

This is why Cummins went to electronic fuel control a couple of years ago, and I'm sure they will have to change more.

And only time will tell how good the new Duramax is. I hear it's rated for 200k miles, sound right Dino?

Dave

GeoffDiamond
11-02-2000, 04:52 PM
I read about the nex 6.0, on blue oval news http://www.blueovalnews.com

They are expecting increased HP and better millage on the new powerstrok. They also have a new R5100 trans in work, which is going to be better thant he current R100.

Geoff

plowking35
11-02-2000, 07:42 PM
From what I understand that rating is used for medium duty platforms only. It is a yest that rates the % of engines still running at that mileage.I think the quota is 90% still running at 200K in a meduim duty platform. For the record the T444E is rated at 200K and the cummins is rated like 400K. So the rating is similar to what we see with the current engines from INT and ford. Now in a light duty platform such as pick ups and small c&c that rating is much higher. What we finally see now is all three using medium duty engines in light duty applications, where as before gm used a light duty engine in a light duty truck.
Where GM has finally exceeded the others is with an entire drivetrain (read tranny) that can handle the power from the engines.
Dodge I hear will have the allison in the 2003 model year,but I guess ford has decided to stay on their own. I have to ask that if the allison is the tranny of choice for the 650/750's then why wont they bite the bullet and install in the 250-550? My guess is that they are already over paying for the PS and dont want to lose more money with an outsourced tranny to boot.
Dino

GeoffDiamond
11-02-2000, 08:52 PM
Yes, the allison, is generally the choice for the F 650 and F 750, when you go with an auto.

I have 3 trucks, with the engine tranny combo, of an Allison auto push button, and a cat 312 engine.

I think this new 5 speed auto, if built right, will solve Ford's tranny and Diesel problems. However no information is aviable about this current tranny. The current tranny Ford builds, will last and work, if not beat on, and properly maintained.

Geoff

plowking35
11-03-2000, 06:22 AM
When you get into the gvw and towing weights that people are using the super duties for, one shouldnt have to worry about "beating" on the tranny, or just working it for that matter. No matter how well ford designs the tranny it wont compare to the allison. I have heard some reports on the specs on the new 5sp,clutch packs and torque convertor sizes are way smaller than the allison. Plus I hear no grade braking feature, with precludes a very stout design as the weight of the truck is now being stopped or held back by the tranny. Ford really needs to look at this issue very well before it starts testing the new tranny on the public.
One reply I heard on the ford diesel page was that , We know the auto tranny has problems, and we are trying to make it better, but we have done about all we can do, so you have to just live with what we have until we can figure out something else.
Dino

DaveO
11-03-2000, 12:49 PM
Dino,

Good info. I believe Ford is sticking with THEIR tranny for the same reasons that Dodge is supposedly going to MB diesels. Out sourcing those parts cuts into the profit margin, AND also costs them lost work/revenues for THEIR employees making the parts not used.

Pickups have not been this HD since the mid 80's. Glad to see GM is raising the bar. We all benefit eventually.

Dave

plowking35
11-04-2000, 06:37 PM
Well said Dave, only dodge may not be using MB in the truck line in 2003, from what I read they are trying to stick with the Cummins or possibly detriot diesel, MB now owns them as well. Time will tell what the outcome will be, but at least for now I can say that I own a GM truck with out hanging my head.
Dino

thelawnguy
11-04-2000, 09:01 PM
For 2002 Dodge has completely revamped its truck line so look for any changes starting next model year.

plowking35
11-05-2000, 09:30 AM
The change in Dodges line up will be in the 8600 gvw trucks and down, they are going to split their line up much like ford and gm with a light duty and heavy duty pick up line. The dodge HD wont be out till 2003.
http://www.pickuptruck.com
they have a lot of info about all the brands there. GM even has a new show truck much like the ford super cruizer, only IMO not as good looking as the ford.
Dino

John DiMartino
11-08-2000, 10:59 PM
Dodge is staying with Cummins-the website has a confirmation letter from Daimer-chrysler on thier site.The baby PSD is a 4.5 liter v-6,it is a light duty (under 8500) diesel,for the F150,and expedition.The new 6.0 will replace the Powerstroke.Geoff I cant figure out why you would be disappointed-the 6.0 will dust the 7.3,while getting better MPG,starting faster,and requiring less maintance.It also weighs about 100 lbs less than the 7.3.Hp should be in the 300-325 range with torque around 525-550.Emmisions are so much cleaner on the new 6.0 that much more fuel can be added without the typical smoke the PSD belches as HP gets near 300.