Advice on 72" ZTR

[luckylawnboy]

WEll how many of you are using 72" mowers. I have never ran one before and wasn't aware of the power requirements. I have 60 Dixie flatlander that is the best thing on gods Earth to me. The 25 hp kohler is great. But is it enough to run a 72"??. Dixie's spec sheet says there Single engine gas 72" will only run 8 mph, Well if you use this equation from Exmark the 72" it will not out mow a 60" Flatlander at 12-13 mph.

72" x 8mph /120 for 80% effiency = 4.8 a/hour

60" x 12mph /120 = 6 a/hour

So what are some opinions on running 72" are they woth it or not and, what about power?

[gorrell]

I too have a flatlander and thought it was the cat's meow until I got my new s'burb'n turb'n. This machine will make a believer out of you. We maintain a commercial property with approximately 45 acres of grass. When we started we ran two Ransomes T-3102 3 wheel riders and it took 7 to 7.5 hours to mow it all, then I graduated to 2 61" grasshoppers and reduced the time to 6 hours, now with the flatlander and the s'burb'n turb'n we can cover it all in 4 hours flat. 40 horses on the turb'n, no substitute for horsepower. Lynn

[toddman35]

if you still want a 25 kohler go with the exmark 72" but that would be underpowered if you were cutting thick grass, but probably OK if it was thin grass. You should look at the Exmark/Toro 26 Hp EFI 72", you can go 10 mph on those, so 72*10/120=6 a/h, well in that case get another 60" like you have but i would be skeptical (sp?) of the 25 hp kohlers, maybe you got a good one. hope this helps.

[Cutter1]

Exmark new engine lines are for the bigger decks. They are coming out in January. They have a 31 hp gas, 26 hp Diesel. They also have a 27 hp Liquid Cooled Kaw and a 26 hp Kohler. I ran the new diesel with a 72 deck, it was nice and extremly quiet. I would never buy a 72 deck, I think its just too big.

[toddman35]

plus on the emxmark XP series, you can go 11 mph so that would make you be able, 72*11/120=6.6 a/hr. and the new diesel is 27 hp not 26. hope this helps.

[luckylawnboy]

Is threre any information on the new Exmarks on the internet?? I have also looked at the new the 72" 5000 series Diesel Dixie, But I have not herd a price, and if it is a lot more that a Flatlander, it would really have to outperform it to justify spending a couple more thousand on a mower.

[John DiMartino]

I think the xxw4000-suburbn turban is on special now-and is about 5K less than the 41HP turbo diesel 72".5k buys a lot of fuel,but the yanmar should burn less than 1/2 fuel of the kohlers.I think the yanmar will outlast at least 8 kohler 20's.That is 4 sets,as they are used in the Subn-turban.

[Eric ELM]

The 72" DC with the twin 20's will go 15 MPH so this would be the fastest and cheapest 72" other than the 25 HP 72" City Slicker. You can also get the 72" with the 26 HP Yanmar, but I feel the 25 Kohler and the 26 Yanmar would lack some power in tall grass. If you are mowing all your big properties weekly, they would be OK. The XXWD 5000 will be pricey compared to the XXW4000 and I think the XXW4000 is about the same as the XXWD2600. The XWD2600 will go 12 MPH, but I'm not sure on the XXWD2600.

I know of a guy in Kentucky that bought a new 72" Exmark and it broke down, so he borrowed a friends new XF2500 Flatlander 60" and mowed his properties in less time than it took with the 72" Exmark. He ended up buying a XFD2600 Flatlander diesel. This just points out that the size of a deck isn't always the fastest way to go.

[Lawnworks]

I have a DC XF2500 w/ a 25 kohler. The spec sheet says it will go 13 mph. I do not know if I believe this. Also, I raised my rpms to about 3730-3750. Will this help my top end? So far I am loving the chopper. I get alot of compliments and stares.

[Cutter1]

sorry todd....27 hp.

[Greenman2ooo]

Gorrell-

Would your mowing experiences and times on this 45 acre site likely translate loosely to what could be done in a park like setting with ballfields and slightly bumpier outlying turf areas???

I am bidding a 60 acre plus property and want to check and recheck to make sure my figures are right since I don't have any real life experience on this particular site.

I've walked the property and it is fairly level and is moderately smooth in 70% of areas and slightly bumpy in the remaining 30% (no tire depressions or anything of that caliber). Not too many obstacles in most areas, with a few exceptions. It looks like some areas could be mowed at top speed,which would compensate for the drainage ditch and a couple of other embankments that would slow a mower down.

Is 3 acres per hour production from a 60" Mid Mount ZTR easily achievable under the conditions I have described?

Any guidance or insight into anything I am missing would be appreciated.

[HOMER]

I have a 72" Chopper with the single 25 Kohler. If this park is to be cut on a regular basis this is the machine you want. If it's a little bumpy then it is definately the one you want. I have a 50" Flatlander as well and it will fly but the bumps will slow you down, the 72 smooths a lot of them out with the wide stance. I cut everything with my 72 and it has never been so underpowered that I regretted buying it! On a large area like you are referring too it only makes sense to use the biggest thing you can find. Another buying point is the extra width of the 72 makes it nearly impossible to turn over. you will slide off a bank before ever rolling it, I tried so I know!

3 acres per hour is nothing, you can probably achieve 4 or 5 with no problems if the majority is open mowing.

[lawrence stone]

Greenman welcome to the world of wide area mowing.

B/4 I would go any further how are you getting the acreage figures for these jobs.?

When I measure a job site I bring a 44" toro walk behind with a stand on sulky in the back of my pick up (ramp gate).

I steer the t-bar with one hand and use the wheel measure in the other. This way I am able to get EXACT (almost)turf
and bed measurements at large sites in no time with out walking a marathon.

[Greenman2ooo]

Homer-

Thanks for your input. You guys with your Dixies are gonna have me trying another this Spring. I'll give her the once over and be able to compare to another 60" ZTR head to head this time. I think having more of an idea what to expect out of a Z after having more hours in the seat will make this evaluation a little more meaningful to me than last year's demo was.

Also, how well does that 72" fit on a typical lawn service trailer? It seems they would be a tight fit.

Lawrence-

I measured with a measuring wheel. Actually, the measurement they gave and my measurement matched really closely! I must agree about walking a marathon. This property was set up so I could measure the length by driving with the measuring wheel in my truck. I simply had to get out and measure the width.
I didn't want to take the chance they had made a mistake in measuring that I would have to pay for when I win the bid.

[HOMER]

It's close but it will fit. I have a 8'x20' and there is just enought room to get up.

[mmorgan]

How many of you are mowing asphalt? 15MPH!!! I have 2 John Deere M665's I only have a couple of places that you can mow at their rated 11 mph. Almost all other places are too rough. Maybe I am to fussy, but I don't like to shake my machine to death or have a kidneys screaming to slow down.
The best thing that I have found to cover large open areas are wing mowers by Acrease. I mow a 20 acre city park which is mostly open area. Myself with my JD 60" pulling 2 Acrease 60" wings, and another JD 60" trimmming around trees and playground equipment, takes us 2 hours. Cutting 14' per swoth (6" overlap per wing) is really covering the area without tearing up your equipment. If anyone has questions about Acrease equip. e-mail me. (No I don't work for them, I am just pleased with the quality of equipment, job done and the money saved by not paying an operator for 60" of cut grass!)

Matthew
mmorgan@htb.net

[Eric ELM]

Mmorgan:
I agree you can't mow fast with JD. I've owned 4 of them and if you try to mow fast, the blade tip speed isn't fast enough and they will shake you to death. The top speed cutting with them is about 4 or 5 MPH and the cut still isn't as good as my Choppers going twice that fast. I couldn't believe it either, even after owning both brands. I used to be a Green Paint Nut, the key word is USED to be.

As far as tearing up my equipment, my oldest Chopper has been to the dealer less in 6 years than the last JD I got was in the first month after buying it brand new.

I did go to that website and looked at those pull mowers. Looks like a good setup. There are lots of pull mowers out there now and for huge lawns, they might be the answer.

How are they to load up to go to the next lawn? Do you use them all week long or just on that one job?

Eric

[lee b]

Matthew, how do you like your m665's? How do they compare to other ztrs? Is there anything in particular that you don't like about them? I'm also interested in the pull-type mowers you mentioned, does acrease have a website? Thanks for the info.

[mmorgan]

Eric,
I don't know what kind of JD you were using, but the new M665 mid-mount will cut like a carpet, even on the few places that I can go all out. In the past, I have used JD 425 and 445 all wheel steer models. Blade tip speed is a concern with these machines as you mentioned. 5-6 mph max. I still own 1 1996 model 425. Excellent machine. I was running that machine in a vacant lot last season and one of my employees litterally mowed circles around the tractor. With a better cut to boot!
I like the M665 very well. I feel that other machines have some advantages though. JD does not offer a liquid cooled gas or diesel engine and if the rep. at Mid-Am in Chicago was correct, they aren't planning to. The current mower has a 25 hp Kohler. Over all a good mower. A huge benefit for me is excellent dealer support.
As far as the wing mowers go, I only pull both of them on two accounts. I take care of a lot of country lawns where I use 1 wing on all of them. I don't advise using them on smaller residential lawns. You can still go right around a tree or poll when you get on to them, but you still have to manuver around with them. They are best kept in larger areas. I have looked a lot of pull behind wing mowers and these are by far the best built. I have also found that they are the most expensive as well. You get what you pay for though. A 7guage welded deck, Pnumatic tires at all 4 corners, a 15hp Kohler Command Pro engine, Hour and Tach meter, etc. Extremely well built. I would not have any other.
As far as loading and unloading goes, that is another story. I have the largest commercial models, so they are the heaviest. 1 strong man can roll one up onto a trailer. 2 are better.
Pulling both wings, I can cut at about 6-8 mph depending on grass moisture and height. Not a bad speed for 14 or 9.5 foot per stretch.
The huge benefit is you are not paying a man to cut 60 inches of grass. These days when labor is sometimes short, that in itself is a real bonus.
I dno't know about the web site. They are built by Kuntz engineering, so maybe try the obvious first.

[ncmow]

I want to see a picture of your JD Mid-Z pulling the wing mowers. If I understand correctly, you are pulling them w/ your M665's. Correct? How did you do rig a hitch w/ the mule drive system? I think this is interesting. What is this doing to your wheel motor?

[mmorgan]

ncmow,

I built a receiver hitch system for the back of the mower. The hitch slides in and out of the receiver bolted to the lower frame of the machine, below the pulleys. I will take pictures and send to you soon. Please overlook the dirt, it got to cold to wash and wax the last time before I finished the season, and the shop is not heated.

[Eric ELM]

As I said in the above post, I did to to that website and looked at them. This is the link. http://www.acrease.com/acrease.htm

These would be nice for a park area or any big area to mow. I have seen the Dixie Chopper pull behind model too. They have a 25HP motor on them on a 72" deck. If I had some big open areas, I might get one of them.

Ncmow asked what will this do to your wheel motors. Most wheel motors are pretty tough, so it shouldn't hurt to pull this behind unless you have some steep hills. If you do, just unhook them and do the steep part with just a ZTR or W/B.

[HOMER]

I checked out the web site, pretty neat idea. How much does each unit cost?

[mmorgan]

I have the 60" commercial model and depending on your dealer, mine were $2800.