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trying 2b organic
01-22-2004, 10:08 PM
The province I live in is about to update is exempted list as part of its Pesticide regulations. They are going to add acedic acid or horticultural vinegar to the list. I know it will kill weeds in the hardscape, I was thinking about putting it in a weedstick and wiping it on broadleaf weeds in the lawn? Will this work. Will this service help me compete as an organic provider?

turf9
02-08-2004, 05:34 PM
Originally posted by trying 2b organic
The province I live in is about to update is exempted list as part of its Pesticide regulations. They are going to add acedic acid or horticultural vinegar to the list. I know it will kill weeds in the hardscape, I was thinking about putting it in a weedstick and wiping it on broadleaf weeds in the lawn? Will this work. Will this service help me compete as an organic provider?
Hi I'm over here in Langley Hows it goin eh
I was going to ask you if youhave used this stuff does it work as good as round up the brand im thinking of using is eco clear havent heard of any feedback from anyone in the field I found out about it from terra link horticultual it's $100 a jug just wanted to now you oppinion Bye for now lets get with the spring already how far does a 10l jug go (dillution and so on)

Dchall_San_Antonio
02-13-2004, 10:59 AM
20% vinegar is truly remarkable in action. You can almost see it working. I have great success using it on oxalis but others using it on poison ivy and oak report similar results. I'm not kidding when I say it turns brown in an hour and turns crispy dry in two hours. The tops die off completely in two to four hours on the really susceptible plants. Now on the other hand, the adjacent St Augustine grass takes several days to die out completely and any adjacent English ivy or bermuda don't seem to be affected at all.
20% vinegar is available at some garden centers, some feed stores, and some Lowe's Hardware stores in their organic section. Brand names include Bradfield, Garden-Ville, Greensense, and Burn Out.

http://www.garden-ville.com
http://www.greensense.net
http://www.bradfieldind.com , and
http://www.biconet.com/lawn/burnout.html

The vinegar you get at the grocery store is 5% and will work against some weeds, so you might go ahead and try it. You will not get the fast knockdown like you do with the 20% acidity.

HAZARDS: The vinegars I'm talking about are not your household vinegars. The 20% vinegar is pretty rough stuff. I read one report where a ranch hand was pouring some into a sprayer and splashed it in his eyes. Three months later his vision returned to normal. Keep this in mind when transferring from the gallon container to your hand sprayer. If you are prone to accidents, I'd not use it. If you are comfortable around strong acids, then use your normal precautions when pouring and spraying it. It will smell like my grandmother's salad dressing for several hours and then the smell goes away.

Here's how I use it. I opened my gallon and poured about 2 ounces of molasses in to help the vinegar stick to the target weeds. Another additive you can add is two ounces of orange oil to increase the effectiveness. The orange oil apparently dissolves any waxy coating on the leaves so the vinegar can penetrate into the leaf better. Then I wait for a really sunny day to spray. The hotter the better. I spray it full strength from a hand held, 16-ounce trigger type sprayer. I try to avoid over spray at all costs because it will kill everything (with a few exceptions). You don't need to saturate the soil, just mist the leaves. If it drips off, you are spraying too heavily. If the plant regrows, spray again in a week or two.

After you're finished spraying, pour the rest down the drain and flush the drain with lots of water. Also flush the sprayer and spray a lot through the pump to flush the acid out of the metal parts inside the pump plunger. If you don't you'll only get one use out of your sprayer.

Vinegar on a stick should work just fine. Keep in mind it can be very useful in weed control but there are a few caveats, addenda, and quid pro quos.

DUSTYCEDAR
02-22-2004, 08:57 AM
how long do u have to wait before re-seeding? if u spray the vinegars

trying 2b organic
02-29-2004, 12:43 AM
Ok, testing complete, it killed the weed but the weed just turned yellow , it didnt really shrivel up. It killed a small circle of grass around the weed. I consider this test a failure but will contunie testing. This time I will test with another organic non-selective - fatty acid spray.
The vinegar worked great on the hardscape weeds, I gave them a pretty good blast and they totally disappeared.

DUSTYCEDAR
02-29-2004, 09:25 AM
r u trying scyth

Dchall_San_Antonio
03-02-2004, 02:33 AM
I would think you could reseed 24 hours after using the vinegar. My confidence level is about 50 out of 100 on that. If you watered the soil, that would dilute any residuals left over. Remember the soil is not supposed to be drenched with the vinegar. It is a foliar spray.

Catmann
03-08-2004, 08:55 AM
The first time I opened a bottle of BurnOut a few yars ago I opened the cap and took a big whiff to see what it was like.

I almost ended up on the floor passed out!!! It is STRONG. Be careful.

It does work well, but we use it only in the hardscape. Lawns are difficult on a commercial scale basis. Too labor intensive and there is a good chance of little brown drip marks. But, for smaller companies it may be feasible.

jefftest
05-05-2004, 07:15 AM
Hi, I'm a total noob to this stuff, but I'm gonna stick an oar in anyway based on my extremely dim remembrance of chem classes long ago ;)

If a problem is the burning of surrounding grass, is there a chance of trying to neutralize the acid there with some higher-ph substance - like maybe limestone? If the prob is direct burning of the grass, maybe a spray, or if it's the acidization of the soil, maybe just fine dry limestone? Seems like it ought to be relatively safe - the reaction makes water, CO2 and Calcium ideally, right? Just hope that the heat of the reaction doesn't burn on its own...

Although if it does, then maybe the acetic acid could be neutralized right on the weed - first apply the acetic acid, then "later" (this might take some experimentation - could be a few minutes to a few days, tough to predict) apply maybe ammonia, ethanol or limestone... (acetic acid has reactions with ethanol and ammonia, I don't remember what the products would be especially when not in solution, but they can't be *too* awful, these are reactions that would occur a lot in nature). The ethanol or ammonia would probably be too volatile to use to treat the surrounding grass, but ought to work better directly on the acetic acid covered weed. Burn once from the acid then again from the heat of the exothermic neutralization reaction, ideally...

(Back to lurking - and thanks for all the great info!)

bioman
05-05-2004, 02:56 PM
Burnout does not work all that efficiently. Neither does a 20% vinegar with acidic acid. The best Argo. vinegar out there is one with yucca extract in it. I know you can spray it directly on nut sedge in St. Augustine grass, and kill the nut sedge and only harm the turf a little. However, the turf will be back to normal in less than a week. We have this product in stock.

Thanks,

Ron

dan deutekom
05-05-2004, 08:14 PM
Well I tried horticultural vinegar several weeks ago. Was impressed by how fast it burned down the weeds. Was not impressed by the cost. I did a comparison side by side with Round up. After week one the vinegar looked like it did the good kill with the Roundup doing next to nothing. Week 2 both looked about the same. Week 3 the vinegar side is growing back very quickly. I now have to retreat with roundup so that I can plant the ground cover I am going to use.
Cost vinegar $70.00 + need to retreat before planting
Round up $3.00 and I can plant

Also I found the vinegar tended to irritate my nostrils when spraying and I have never had any irritation of any sort with Roundup.

So far, for me, it just isn't a viable option as far as reliable and inexpensive weed control is concerned.

googleplex
05-06-2004, 11:54 PM
Dan,
did you overseed the area, or just wait the three weeks?
Do you think spot overseeding would work after vinegar application?

dan deutekom
05-07-2004, 08:41 PM
Actually I am planting with Vinca. I really need to keep the regrowth of weeds down to a minimum so that the Vinca can get established and become strong enough to suppress other competition. I usually only wait about a week with roundup and then rototil the soil and weeds in. But I wanted to see how vinegar and roundup compared. If I where to plant the vinegar area the Vinca would never get established because the regrowth of weeds is just incredible. They almost look healthier than when I sprayed! The dandelions had some burned leaves and then just grew on like nothing happened and the Garlic mustard burned down to the ground and then just continued growing from thier hearts(the vinegar couldn't get into the furled leaves)

leogod
05-20-2004, 10:19 AM
So has anyone tried household vinegar undiluted? Did it do anything?

leogod
05-20-2004, 02:03 PM
Has anyone tried 5% vinegar (household)? Does it do anything?

DUSTYCEDAR
05-20-2004, 05:52 PM
Originally posted by leogod
Has anyone tried 5% vinegar (household)? Does it do anything?
not strong enough
waste of your time
need 20%

Garden Panzer
05-26-2004, 11:04 PM
Long term use of vinegar will sterlize your soil- be careful. Hard surface is one thing but growing medium is another

TurfProSTL
05-27-2004, 02:23 AM
I don't understand why anyone would be against using RoundUp for a project like this. My understanding is that glyphosate is immediately broken down by soil microbial activity. So the chemical does the job it is supposed to and then feeds organisms. What's the problem with RoundUp, tree huggers?

Just wondering.....