NEXT LEVEL

[HOMER]

I was in my zone today with weedwacker in hand and began to think about all the hits Phil got on the cruise for Chuck. I think Chuck deserves the cruise so please don't misunderstand what I'm about to say, if Phil can get a response like that for Chuck, what else, where else could this forum lead to. I won't say I've given it any in depth studies or anything but some of the ideas that came to mind today were support for the new guys, not just on the internet support, I mean one on one, legal support if need be, accounting support, all by Lawnsite members that have the same vested interest in the Green Industry. As I said, I haven't given it much more time than I'm giving it right now but with almost 1000 members now, some which don't even contribute but do peek in from time to time we could have ample support in a few short months. What about a guy about to take his pesticide exam using an experienced applicator as a tutor, working together to ensure the rookie passes the test and beyond that making sure he doesn't screw up once he gets going. How about a training session on irrigation repair or even installation? <p>We have Phil, Bill and several experienced operators in mowing, landscape design, installation.........a wealth of knowledge. If you join the PLCAA you get a newsletter and pay them for what, to be a member? I'm not saying thats a bad thing but it doesn't fill that niche that seems to be getting filled here, when we ain't fighting! We can all be considered a consultant and help each other out State by State, region by region, sorry Karl, even country by country. You could head up the Australian end of it! Everybody has their own methods of operation but 1000 and growing, where can it go from here? Once a year we can have our own convention, or regional conventions, in a few years maybe all the talk of being on the &quot;same page&quot; could become reality, it is possible. Just something to consider. Back to the idea of raising money for Chuck, there is no reason we couldn't do the same thing to fund all of the above, maybe even a Lawnsite magazine dealing specifically with the issues we discuss and hash out on here........the mind keeps going into the deeper waters, need to quit while I'm ahead and let ya'll voice your opinions now!<p>Homer

[Jason]

Homer, Great ideas. Chuck mentioned setting up a user profile by zip code for potential customers looking for maintenance. We'd pay 50 bucks to be listed. I've been thinking if that idea takes off, I might make up some www.lawnsite.com stickers for my truck and trailer. Who knows what can happen. Like you mentioned we have almost 1000 members now. The sky is the limit. There are so many talented and knowledgeable people here. I think you're on to something.

[southside]

Homer, I agree 100%. Would be good to educate<br>the new guys in the industry,to reduce the <br>number of &quot;cowboy&quot; operators.It would help<br>promote proffesionalism. Perhaps if this<br>site could be tied in with the PLCAA or<br>whatever,it could work well.Not too many<br>other Aussies here,but I'm working on it.<p>Karl<br>

[Charles]

Why not find a health insurance provider who would want a shot of a potential 1000 Lawn care providers. Maybe give us a group rate.

[NeilG]

Homer, it must really be hot and dry down there, for you to have all that Brainstorming time. But, you do have some great ideas.<br>Charles has hit on something also. Health Insurance cost me over $6K a year, and I just had a 25 o/o increase. It takes alot of lawns to cover that kind of overhead.

[TGCummings]

Count me in on this from top to bottom. All you really had to say was &quot;health insurance&quot; and my wallet started to hurt all over again. My rates were recently reviewed and BC decided not to increase them; but instead reduced our coverage... :(<p>-TGC

[Charles]

Got an idea. Turn this into a pay membership site. Nothing big. 5 to 10 a month. Part of the money goes to Chuck. Part of the money goes to a health insurance group plan. Part of the money goes to the posters. To qualify for the money(lets say .50 to a 1.00 per post). The post must be lawn care related. Yep Homer and I do have alot of time on our hands with this drought going on lol.

[Toroguy]

Great ideas gentleman!

[Charles]

Let me add to my last reply. Their is a pay web site that charges 15$ per year. He announce that he had over 400,000 members. Thats $6,000,000 per year! Their are 1000s of contractors out their who do not know about this site. Of course you might have to add naked pics to get them here:). Just kidding their is power and influence in numbers. We could become the next arrp. i think insted of a vacation that Chuck would rather have a greater monthly income and a vacation. And we could all benefit in some way. Insurance, learning and post paying etc. This is like Homers another thought. I think the vacation for starter and with it the promo is a great Idea. Chuck could take some of them money he earns and run advertisements of this site in the lawns sections of newspapers around the country. You could also set a limit on the number of post contributors could make money off of. I think Phil had the idea of making this a pay site awhile back. But i am sure The administrator as thought of all the angles too<br><p><font size="1">Edited by: Charles

[AGG Lawn Maintenance]

Years ago I thought about traveling to the warmer states when it was cold in NJ to see what other guys were doing in the business, and to check out the market accrossed the country. This site makes it all a reality everyday. Like I said in one post after 13 years I'm still learning. This forum helps to bring people up to a standard. Something we tend to lack in our business. I believe we should have a standard for pricing to keep people from under bidding by so much. And also to keep people from comparing a really low bid to yours. Just the other day a priced pruning some shurbs at about $160.00<br>The other guy priced it at $80.00. I've seen guys put down mulch with no edge the list goes on. This site will give the new guy and the old school guy some hope. As far as the insurance thing you have my vote New Jersey is one of the highest.

[Toroguy]

If we were paid for responses, would my previous response merit a payment? Their would have to be a criteria to eliminate &quot;yes&quot; or &quot;no&quot; type responses for $.<p>What about inaccurate infomation? <p>It would be easier to share information if payment was recieved. This site and information gathered puts me ahead of the competition. Do I want to inform the competition that Eric@Elm showed me the light on how to stripe? Or when the neighbors all comment and want the same thing done to their lawns-I know they call me. You dont want to cheapen the currency by making it to available.<p>Educating all on the pricing would be beneficial, but a daunting task.<p>I will continue to share...just not about the technology I acquired at Roswell:)

[HOMER]

Well at least I got ya'll thinking! The insurance thing is a great idea, I also saw a post by a green industry finance group on here, what about 1000, 2000, 3000, potential customers! Good financing good get that company well on its way too, the trickle down effect.<p>I think if you wanted to be a bona-fide member you should have to pay a monthly fee, not to look on here but to actually partake of the benefits associated with being a paid member. If Chuck continues to recieve good press from the &quot;GREEN&quot; magazines it will only take a while for more members to come on board.<p>I asked a fellow full timer today to helpp me mow the 10 acre Church we have, I said if he helped I would give him 1/2 the money.......he is struggling, you wanna know why? Because he has not been educated enough to know that you need year round accounts, they live from cut to cut, and he ain't gettin to cut much! I wound up giving him the whole amount today because he continued to help me do another Church and my largest school. I needed his help to stay on track with my accounts, he needed me to feed his family, it felt pretty good to finally be able to helpp someone. He does good work and his wife is his helper so I am going to refer him to some of the people that call me, I wised up and will only accept irrigated accounts now, it's taken me a while to understand everything too, I didn't have Lawn Site back in '96. <p>If you get an opportunity to help someone do it and you will gain a friend, not a competitor, someone that will help you when your in a jam insted of pull your accounts away from you. I recieved a $40.00 gift certificate in the mail yesterday for a steak house in my area, it came from someone I've never met in person, just over the internet, I must have helped him somehow, someway for him to do this for me. I appreciated the gift because it is a GREAT place to eat. If these things can happen on a small scale think of the connections that could be made on a larger scale, coast to coast.<p>More ramblin'<p>Homer

[Nilsson Associates]

Few years back I did an article that appeared in Landscaper Publications, (New York regional trade mag) on this very subject. Article was based on .. &quot;collective power&quot; and what could be done with it, for green guys and gals. Large companies already have power because they are big. Small companies have very little power because they don't ban together, try to remain totally independent in many ways. Independent is okay ... but it doesn't win wars. <p>Here are a few excerpts from the article ..<br>1. Credit Union formation to lower interest costs and also serve as an investment vehicle.<p>2. Group vacation discounts (even cruises at real big discounts)<p>3. Group advertising coop by region<p>4. Purchasing alliances to lower your costs on almost everything you buy to run your business.<p>5. Capital formation to allow more rapid growth by &quot;buying out the competition&quot;.<p>6. Creation of mergers.<p>7. Fomation of the &quot;master mind group&quot;.<p>8. Group insurance.<p>9. Investment opps, plus time share, real estate, vacation resorts.<p>10. Group purchases in bulk, and (negotiated buying).<p>All this sounds pretty good. Problem? Cooperation and the lack thereof. Big companies on Wall Street got that way because capital was pooled to make the expansion of America possible. <p>Another doable idea I thought was good was to have widespread consolidation of small lawn care companies to form a very large company ... maybe even the biggest in the USA. Remaining independent (like a franchise) but coming together to have advantages in markets. Problem? Cooperation.<p>This is a subject that has always interested me. Don't even think about doing it without group investing in all the systems that need to be in place to make it happen. Time, money, management, execution.<p>And the question for tonite is ... why is it that you (pay) to (enter) a trade show where the object is to sell you things displayed at that show? Shouldn't entry be free?<p>I like the widespread consolidation idea the best. Operators still run their &quot;own show&quot; but enjoy advantages in a franchise &quot;like&quot; atmosphere. How? Pooling of resources (money) just like on Wall Street.<p>But the biggest problem I'm trying to solve right now is raising money for Chuck's vacation cruise. If you haven't made a pledge, please do so at the Chuck Going on A Cruise? post.<p>Phil Nilsson<p><p><p><font size="1">Edited by: Nilsson Associates

[curlawngreen]

Very good question.But then again we get to watch TV for &quot;FREE&quot; dont we?If we dont go to a baseball game we have not paid some idiot 4 million dollers per year to play first base have we? But what THEY have that WE dont is COOPERATION, we dont seem to represent the costs of taking care of the clients investment very well. I had a guy ask me to cut his yard because the other guy only cut the tops off. The guy did not like that, I told him that I would cut to the recommended height and that was that, he didnt like my answer.It looked like the other LCO was doing a good job.Would you take his work and cut lower or go by the current guidelines of lawn main.?

[HOMER]

If you watched the game on T.V. then you did help support the 4 million dollar a year player. People watch, networks sell ads.<p>Cut the grass per customer specifications, it belongs to him and if his spec's damage it he has to pay to have it repaired!<p>Homer

[Charles]

Phil, what would be a way to get this forum on sound financial footing? I mean after the vacation promotion. One section of lawnsite would be free(this section) and the other section would be pay. One would offer a group insurance link by a reputable nationwide insurance company. And a link to a group investment company. And seminar on lawn, pesticide, snowplowing etc. Group discounts on almost everything. More members seem to be the key. We need more members though, 1000 is really not much because only a small % of them is going to participate. You need about 10000 members to get 1000 to participate. Its hard to get year around contracts in my drought prone region Homer so I too am unemployeed at this point. No rain in site. I am looking for ways to make money and save money. A group insurance company would be a big draw and a good sponsor

[Nilsson Associates]

Hi Charles,<br>First thought is continue to keep the site running. ... It's a tough call on the one hand it takes money to run a site, and on the other most forums are free. Problem with internet sites is funding them with advertising or sponsors to pay the bills and of course make them a worthwhile thing for a site owner to get involved with. So you add up the costs of running a site (all user fees) add up all time spent by owners, administrators and divide those total hours each month into remaining revenue after cost ... if any. That tells you what you made for each hour spent. If the answer comes back, a minimum wage pay rate per hour, then I guess you could go broke if you keep doing that.<p>That's the problem for many web sites, each day we hear of more of them who quit and go off line because the income to run them just isn't there. So I guess if a site is to continue to run, eventually it has to make ends meet, otherwise a site owner would either run out of money or lose interest. If the site owner is a Bill Gates, then that's okay I guess.<p>I can't speak for site owner Chuck Keough, and it's not my place to do that. Most site owners will want to turn a profit eventually and that's no sin. Everybody has to pay bills, you can't fault anybody for wanting to earn a living which we all know isn't easy.<p>I think your question comes down to money. With money ... the main resource is in place that could fund any project or goal that an individual or group of people might want to pursue. All the things mentioned so far are possible to do. Question is who has the time to do them, without sacrificing current avenues of making a paycheck? <p>Group stuff like arranging group insurance, negotiating cooperative purchasing, getting involved with any activity in order to &quot;nail down&quot; something of value for the group .. needs to be funded by membership or sponsors so that management or people are put in place to work on the goals. Then there's the question of organization ... profit or non-profit? It's quite involved, and difficult to accomplish when cooperation is needed. <p>The possibilities are mind boggling ... It's like saying .. well I myself can't afford a condo in Barbados, but 10 people can so ten people put up 10% each ... take 2 weeks each a vacation ... with the other weeks available to rent out. Stuff like that. The possibilities are endless, but it's takes a real &quot;organized effort&quot; and focus to do those kinds of things. <p>Again, I don't know Chuck personally, and it's really none of my business what he has in mind for the site. He is site owner, and has started a good thing which continues to grow. I hope it turns out to be something worth the work he has put into it. <p>Phil Nilsson<p>P.S. for any of the ideas above to work ... need 3 things<br>1. A faultless plan<br>2. Money to work the plan<br>3. Professional approach <br><p><font size="1">Edited by: Nilsson Associates

[thelawnguy]

Who ever said the forum wasnt on &quot;sound financial footing&quot;? Nobody here, save the administrator and higher powers, knows what the real scoop is. Maybe the expenses here are necessary for whatever personal agendas might be going on. I dont know, you dont know, Phil doesnt know.<p>Quite frankly, I am beginning to see the Chuck vacation fundraising turning into Phils roundtable dream, turning Lawnsite into a pay site. Maybe my guess is wrong, but today the wind is blowing from the west and Im starting to smell something rotten coming from Hart Street.<p>Chuck will get his cruise, but its gonna cost this forums' members a lot more than $3.50 mark my words.<p>Bill<p>PS If you want group insurance, group purchasing, join your local Farm Bureau most states around $50/year. TLG<br><p><font size="1">Edited by: thelawnguy

[Administrator]

Bill,<p>Your looking to far into this and you are being pessimistic. I am not going to charge anyone for anything except for a service that lawnsite.com might offer and that will not be a manditory service. <p>LawnSite.com has a lot of possibilities and I am working on projects from my own capital. If my capital runs out I might look for capital from outside sources but im trying to save my pennies and spend them well.<p>I guess well just all have to see.<p><p><br>&lt;font size=&quot;1&quot;&gt;Edited by: administrator<br><p><font size="1">Edited by: administrator

[Nilsson Associates]

Like I said before, we're about to find out the support that forum people are willing to offer. Some months ago when a paid forum was mentioned, many said they would leave if they had to pay. I have no interest in owning a forum ... because it's too high maintenance. Look at how many times admin has to intervene with posting, it's time consuming. I use forums for marketing my stuff. <p>We're asking the folks who come here to invest $3.50 cents into A PERSON , A PERSON, A PERSON, A PERSON, CHUCK IS A PERSON, CHUCK IS A PERSON, not a forum, yet who many get it? think it's some kind of stunt. Who would even care if it were (which it isn't) for $3.50? Small time pocket change and look at the trouble we're having raising even that. Do you think folks would support a paid forum? I don't think so. <p>There are hundreds if not thousands of forums out there. I hope I'm not wasting my time posting to this one lately ... to try to raise a vacation trip for Chuck. At this rate, it's going to take month, after month.<p>Phil Nilsson<p>P.S. I'm asking you to send Chuck who is A PERSON on vacation. I edited back to make sure everybody understands ... it's a person, not a thing. Thank you.<br><p><font size="1">Edited by: Nilsson Associates

[thelawnguy]

Phil, youre never going to get there at 3.50, there may be 1000+ registered users but my guess is many of them are gone and not around anymore. Larry flint, retro, to name two.<p>I suggest someone open a trust account and get this thing off the ground, if its serious. Thats the only way anyones going to fork over 35 cents let alone more.<p>My postal money order for 50 bucks is sitting here waiting for the right place to send it. But I'll be darned Im the first one to mail it in. <p>Bill

[Administrator]

A trust account will be setup on Monday or Tuesday. I did get a $15 check from Rick's Lawn Care yesterday. I will open the trust with that check.<p>Thanks

[turfquip]

I agree with Bill. I've said it before. There needs to be a trust account with Phil as the administrator. If desired, I'll supply a page where contributors and contributions will be listed. There won't be any funny business because each person can verify that their name is on the list with the appropriate contribution. <p>Chuck's gift from the members should be handled in a award atmosphere with lots of press. One or more sponsors should be sought to participate - possibly coordinate a LawnSite party. No sponsor will get on board when guys are sending the owner money with an uncertain outcome.<p>Some say what difference does it make where we send the money, Chuck deserves it. That's fine. Those wishing to may send money to Chuck anytime they want...as often as they want. It's their prerogative, but for THIS promotion we need an account set up for the express purpose of fulfilling the goals of the promotion.<p>Once Chuck gets back from the cruise the topic of funding the site will surely arise again. At that time, if Chuck desires to engage the members in such a discussion, we can do so more clear headedly - not commingling operating funds with trip expenditures.<p>Phil, I encourage you to discuss this with Chuck behind the scenes, make an announcement, have Chuck verify the arrangement with us, and let's get it done, knowing that we'll have something to celebrate very soon.<p>IMHO, it's not going to work any other way.<p>Faithfull friend of LawnSite,<p>Ed<br><p><font size="1">Edited by: turfquip dot com

[Nilsson Associates]

Ed .. I already did the backgrounder on this ... 3 banks, and the cruise line itself, that an account in Chuck's name was the absolute best way. Lot of reasons but cripe it's Sunday afternoon, so why make a federal case of of it?<p>It could be that not the full amount will be raised, if so .. funds are released to him anyway. If all those little checks had to be returned? Too much trouble. Who knows, like I said trying to get the full $3,300 but not sure will make it. <p>A third party receiver? that would cost many of the dollars we're trying to raise. Nobody wants to take charge of &quot;this kind of money&quot; I certainly don't ... <p>It's not a big deal. Have a little faith. If we all keep talking like this, we'll probably sour people from contributing.<p>Simpler is better?<p>Phil N

[turfquip]

<br>No federal case Phil, but I would be interested in hearing what a cruise line has to say about how the funds were raised. Just curious that's all.<p>But that's it. I've said all I will say. I'll remain silent lest I be blamed for the fund not reaching it's objective. I'm in for my original $7.00. <p>Not another peep out of me on this one....

[HOMER]

OH WELL, SO MUCH FOR THAT!

[Nilsson Associates]

Ed ... call cruise line yourself .. find their number at www.rccl.com no time to explain details here.<p>opposing viewpoints not welcome.<p>Phil Nilsson

[HOMER]

I hate to whine, cry, piss and moan, but I wish when a person, this time me, makes a post about an issue other than how is feet smelled when he took his wet, stanky, shoes off and how to avoid nose hair growing out of your ears, that the damn thing won't get so off track and distorted.............Phil. Keep your fundraising efforts in your own post and quit runnin' all over everybody!<p>Maybe there is a book out there you should buy from somebody else and it will teach you a little respect. <p>A famous guy on the John Boy & Billy Big Show says the following and it applies now:<p>QUIT RERNIN MY DAY<p>HOMER

[Toroguy]

O.K. Homer back to the topic,<p>Phil brought up an interesting scenario of a mega merger, or franchising.<p>In Pro magazine a company called U.S. Lawns offers franchises. I dont know what the fee is, but a one crew show, just mowing with all new equipment: truck, mower, whacker, blower would cost $24,000. Depending on truck and equipment. But it takes years to build a customer base. Whereas a &quot;Subway&quot; shop is constructed and all the hungry people stop in for food, within days.<p>The merger concept would also take time.<p>I look more likely for expansion via buy outs of sole proprietors who are having a change of heart. They still mow, but do not have to manage things, suffer the stresses, etc.<br>The customer still see's them once a week.<br>

[Nilsson Associates]

My rough guess, is that by merging under a single banner, the average one or two man outfit would add perhaps $5,000 to $10,000<br>right into the back pocket each year, maybe more ... yet still stay independent 100%.<p>However, won't say more than that because certain folks around here say I'm dominating the conversations. I'm just the messenger delivering the message, don't expect flack though would you? <p>Phil Nilsson<p>

[curlawngreen]

Riddle me this, riddle me that,why dont you just say what the &lt;b&gt;edited&lt;/b&gt; is on your mind?<p>&lt;b&gt;If you use language like that again you will not post on this forum. This is a public forum and is seen by public eyes.. children do not need to see that type of language.&lt;b&gt;<p><font size="1">Edited by: administrator

[Toroguy]

During the off season I will look more in depth at the ideas, and possible prospects. If it works out I will give you a call Phil.

[Guido]

Ok, I'm bringing this post back from the dead, but not to rile up comments about Chucks Cruise or Phil's agenda or Turfquip.com being cheap, etc. The reason I'm doing this is because Homer started a great post and one of the very few I've seen in the past couple of weeks that could really help the memebers here. I haven't been replying much lately because all I see is the same questions over and over: How much do I charge?, Which is better MTD or Toro? You get the point. I understand theres guys trying to get into the business, and I don't discourage you from asking questions at all, but look through the old posts first and narrow it down a little bit. And one other thing I, and a few others I've chatted with, have seen is a bunch of &quot;kids&quot; not even old enough to drive yet asking about $10K-$40K pieces of equipment. LEARN, again, I'm not out to discourage anyone but you don't have to act like a Big Shot around here, you'll probobly get less help that way. I rather help out a kid pushing a 22&quot; craftsman around his neighborhood then somebody that has &quot;crews&quot; as they say it. If you have more than one truck/trailer and you have &quot;people&quot; working for you and your asking questions like How much do I charge? How do I stripe a lawn? What do I do with a bent blade? (I liked that one the most!)then you have a problem that I can't help you with!! Anyway....the morale of the story:<p>Something that can help us all like Homer, Phil and some of the other guys said is ORGANIZATION!!!! I wish I knew how to make that big bad and bold but I'm not that good with computers! Thats going to be the key to the future for us. Heres an example, I know where all spread very far around the US (and I think me and Karl are the only ones in the overseas division of Lawnsite!!) it would be hard to have any kind of monthly meeting or anything, but check it out. Say you split up into 3 or 4 regions accross the states. Meet once a quarter, talk about pricing standards, new equipment, changes in the area, legal and financial issues, etc, maybe have a little seminar, etc. Now I know what your saying.....&quot;I know everything, why do I need to go listen to a bunch of SCRUBS talk about cuttin grass, etc?&quot; Heres a good reason: If we held back our large $ purchases until these get togethers and then found a distributer, weather it be bulk materials, fertilizer, or power equipment, trailers, even trucks, that would sell at a bulk rate discount. Imagine the money we could save?? <p>Another good point, like Homer said, was edumakating some of the younger, newer guys. Would it kill you to spend a day with someone trying to get into the business and let them try out some equipment, let them ask some questions?? I don't know.....it would take a lot of organizing to pull this off, but I think it can happen. I know Phil Nillson and Bill Phagan, and a couple of others around here have some connections with the trade mags, and we're going to start seeing lawnsite pop up in ther evry so often. I bet we got over 30 new members here since that one article, imagine if we all pitched in and put a small ad in one of the mags?? This place could be hoppin!!<p>Heres another advantage, some guys here complaining about too much work and some complaining about not enough. How bout it, If we worked together as an ORGANIZATION of members that we are, If I had a job I couldn't take on, instead of turning it down so it can be picked up by one of the huge contractors out there, I could call up so and so from the forum who's in my area and give it to him ( or her ) Its a way to keep the &quot;scrubs&quot; out of our field. I know I sound kind of negative sometimes about new guys, but I hope you understand. I don't mind someone trying to start up a business, but the ones who don't like doing it, don't put any PRIDE into it, lowball the rest of our estimates, and are just there to make a quick buck and run PISS ME OFF! They are the people that ruin our image, and because of people like them, we can't get paid the dollars we deserve!! Well I hope I got all of you thinking about this. Once chuck gets up that system by zipcode, you'll be able to call up somebody from your area and get together. This idea will work....mark my words!<p>&quot; ASK NOT WHAT THIS FORUM CAN DO FOR YOU, ASK WHAT YOU CAN DO TO BUILD THIS INTO A GREEN INDUSTRY EMPIRE&quot;<p><p>----------<br>&quot;guido&quot;<br>David M. Famiglietti

[bdemir]

Guido,<p>I have more than 3 trucks cut around 4k of grass a week and run two crews. I am the one who asked if there is a better way to bend a blade back or just toss it. I have a lot of work and i jumped into the business just this year. Ive invested 40k and dont know too much. I have cutt grass and i do a great job but there is a lot i dont know. Mine is a special case. Most people spend 4 years to try to build a route so they can make that but its my first year and i dont need to save on some fertilizer but i go through blades because i cut a lot of grass. Im glad you like my post. I will ask more of those simple quesions because i learn from them. Thanks<p>bdemir

[Nilsson Associates]

It's no riddle ...<br>A harnessed horse pulls the loaded wagon with a destination and purpose. The unharnessed horse bolts around the field accomplishing nothing and going nowhere in particular. That's a fact Jack and go figure .. if I may borrow those two expressions from Grassmasters.<p>Green industry is powerless ..<p>There are over 100,000 green industry firms in the US alone ... yet not one of them save for a few has any power. Like soldiers dazed, wounded, UNORGANIZED on the battlefied no wars are won like this.<p>Phil Nilsson<br><p><font size="1">Edited by: Nilsson Associates

[Guido]

I hoped that we could actually progress with this one, I'll be happy if just one person responds to this with a positive note. As for BDEMIR, You prove my point exactly with your post. Instead of posting a question like that, do your research. If you ran a search for blades, and read the previous posts (probobly 100 of them!) you would have read the importance of balancing the blades. Once you knew the importance of a balanced blade, you (hopefully) could use your head and say, hmmmmmmm a bent blade would probobly be hard to balance, I better just use it as a paper weight. The other thing I don't understand about your post is this : You say you use a lot of money on bent blades. WHY?? HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU (or your crew) HIT THE SAME OBSTACLE IN THE SAME YARDS YOU MOW EVERY CYCLE???? Make a walk around the yard that would take a few minutes instead of costing a blade or two. After a few cuts on a property you (or your crews) should know it well enough or atleast be able to pay attention to whats in front of the mower before you run it over!! I'm not trying to argue with you, nobody here wants to hear it either, so lets not make it out like that. I was just making a point to do the background checks before asking a question like that. You'll still learn!!<br><p>----------<br>&lt;a href=&quot;http://communities.msn.com/guidosequipmentpics/&quot;&gt;&quot;Guido&quot;&lt;/a&gt;<br>David M. Famiglietti

[Guido]

Phil, Bill, what do you guys think? Somebody has to understand the power we would have if we were organized, plus the money we could save. Share your thoughts guys!!<p>----------<br>&lt;a href=&quot;http://communities.msn.com/guidosequipmentpics/&quot;&gt;&quot;Guido&quot;&lt;/a&gt;<br>David M. Famiglietti

[Guido]

Hey Homer, I found two of your posts that I'm bringing back up for old time sake!


This one started off great, but veered a little bit off track, but we'll see if we can get back on the original subject.


I'm bringing up these older posts because there are a $hit Load of new guys around here, and I think their added input on these will be great.

Hope you enjoy!