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View Full Version : Lawn & Landscapers union ?


workaholic
02-14-2004, 09:06 PM
How many have thought about creating a union for the green industry? what are your veiws about this? do you think its possible?

paponte
02-14-2004, 09:37 PM
Rhought about it many times. Possibilities... I don't know. :confused:

Kelly's Landscaping
02-14-2004, 10:02 PM
For owners or for employees? Whatís in the best interest of the union is never in the best interest of the company and seldom in the best interest of the employees either. Once they get going all they care about is self-preservation. When I was a kid and got me a job at the local grocery store it was mandatory you gave up 75 dollars and became a union member after 60 days or you no longer worked there. It was much later I realized they raised millions of dollars and spent it on democrats campaigns again how did this help me. I would rather keep my money then have if taken and spent in a manor that didnít suit me. Then when contracts came up it was a done deal there was no real sale and the only people that got anything were the meat cutters even the full timers got little and the part times got zip. Yet it was the numbers of the last 2 groups that gave them all the power.

In the green industry it would mean min prices for workers and if you didnít wish to be union it would mean the kind compassionate liberal union members doing everything in there power to destroy your life ruin your business and vandalize you and your customers property they cant handle rejection and you need only look at the teamsters to know if anything I was kind about their tactics. The next thing would be medical insurance for all employees then life then pensions and any other befit they can think up like ot after 8 hours on a day not 40 in a week.

Perhaps it will bring some of the giants to their knees and make them raise their prices but eventually it will filter down to the smaller landscaper companies. And if you think your safe cause you have no employees wrong they will take their new political power and ask for laws to make it near impossible to begin a company and then demand for taxes on that industry to offset the costs of all the new benefits they feel entitled to i.e. you will be expected to help foot the bill for Tru Greens employees.

Now if your talking about a union for companies i.e. price controls that would be either a monopoly or a cartel and would be instantly crushed by the government as unfair. Since it is only fair for employees to have such bargaining power and you rich landscapers should be ashamed of your selfís.

Feel free to debate this but I know I am right and I would hate to see such a movement take hold. I donít know if anyone knows Costco but its a club perhaps its with out the T in it I forget any ways they merged in CT some shops were union others werenít the north haven store did a million a week but was union they actually closed it rather then pay the added labor costs.

SodKing
02-14-2004, 10:05 PM
Ditto.................

drains
02-15-2004, 12:27 AM
Labor unions are no more to blame for the problems in this country than crooked lawyers and politicians and crooked ceo's, insurance is a huge scam also, I mean we could go on and on with this.

promower
02-15-2004, 12:52 AM
As kelly said "Unions are not in the best interest of the buisness owner" Unions give the employees the trump card. It is much harder to fire people, and its harder for you to have the last say even though its your buisness, you have the possibilty of a strike which in this industry could severly damage your company. Unions arent always the best for employees either I wont go into it, I was in the union a few years back and theres a lot of things I didnt agree with.

dkeisala
02-15-2004, 01:17 AM
Unionize?!! I'd sell everything and go into another type of business.

Ursushorribilus
02-15-2004, 01:20 AM
Well said, Kelly!

hole in one lco
02-15-2004, 01:41 AM
A union is there for job security, fare wages, benefits,and a healthy work place ..

I'm not one to argue but i will this time .

I paid 10.00 extra to put the union bug on my business cards out of respect to the (working stiff and yes thats us). Without unions you could work 35yr for someone and then be fired and be left with just your balls in you hand.

IndyPropertyCare
02-15-2004, 06:11 AM
Wait a minute people :confused: Everyone is centering around the current union ways of running a union. Not that I am totally for it.....but if it were to be created for the business owners..by the business owners and all were to be in total harmony in what is spelled out in the base configuration. Then it just might work. It does not even have to be a "union".... There are several ways to gather many busineses together and provide the same great outcome for all.

Step back and look at the BIG PICTURE here. There is not 1 focal point group in this type of business anywhere in the USA, sure there are several small ones, but if there were to be 1 place for all to land there feet at....WOW ...just think of the potential.

Think about it..... The future is how we create the present time we are in.

GarPA
02-15-2004, 06:44 AM
I would rather see some kind of state certifcation beyond the chemical/fert requirements. I dont like excessive govt regs but some of the rip off landscaping jobs I come upon on customers properties, border on criminal, and are at a minimum, completely unprofessional....12 inches of mulch, plants thrown into the ground with the baskets/burlaps still strangling the plant, pruning that turns plants/trees into lollipop look-alikes, and on it goe.

We often talk about how many of us want to raise the bar in this industry. By having an exam/cert procedure at least some of these morons would at least have to learn proper landcare procedures to get certified. Of course this would not guarantee they actually use the proper procedures, but at least for those who dont know any better, some would do things the right way.
Yes, some private orgs offer landscape certifications but the vast majority of us don't go after the certs (me included btw)

We want to be viewed by the public as "professionals"...well then we need at least something on the front end to demonstrate we know the difference between bushwhacking and hand pruning.

We often use the plumber as an example of a profession that people respect. CPA's, electricians, plumbers, auto mechanics, etc, all have front end as well as continuing education requirements. Our "profession" should be no different if we indeed want to raise the publics perception of our worth.

Randy Scott
02-15-2004, 10:10 AM
This has been discussed here before. We all have our opinions. All I know is that I will control my destiny in life, nobody else needs to interfere with that.

mtdman
02-15-2004, 12:13 PM
I was in a union at one of the stores I worked at, total waste of time and just a way to suck my money. As an owner, a union would not be in my best interest. As has been said, unions benefit workers in a company. Not interested. I agree with Randy Scott, above.

kmeforou
02-15-2004, 12:44 PM
A union would not work. There are too many independents out there. You have a huge number starting up businesses evey day and you know most would not participate, thus they would be in a position to undercut us. I do not know how bad it is in your area, but the illegals are taking a lot of business away from the citizens of this country too and I see no way they would join.

workaholic
02-15-2004, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by IndyPropertyCare
Wait a minute people :confused: Everyone is centering around the current union ways of running a union. Not that I am totally for it.....but if it were to be created for the business owners..by the business owners and all were to be in total harmony in what is spelled out in the base configuration. Then it just might work. It does not even have to be a "union".... There are several ways to gather many busineses together and provide the same great outcome for all.

Step back and look at the BIG PICTURE here. There is not 1 focal point group in this type of business anywhere in the USA, sure there are several small ones, but if there were to be 1 place for all to land there feet at....WOW ...just think of the potential.

Think about it..... The future is how we create the present time we are in. I like your thinking. how about Lawn & Landscapers business owners Group,something to think about...

Soupy
02-15-2004, 07:37 PM
Most people I know that are in a union say that it is a waste of money. I'm sure the unions can argue that without them most workers wouldn't have benefits. But there are a lot of non union companies that supply good benefits. I used to get crap from this one teamster guy for drinking Coors products. I told him that I'm sure every Coors employee was treated better then him. He workers for the trash company. Anyway, I would always tell him that I seen his wife in WalMart and that would shut him up.

battags
02-15-2004, 07:48 PM
Workers Unions did have there place in U.S. industry. Just ask any of your grandfathers or great-grandfathers who were a mill worker, miner, machinist, etc.

Those times have changed. Don't get me wrong, I'm in a union now. FOP/Ohio Labor Council. We have now succeded in paying worthless cops who do nothing the same amount as enthusiastic hardworking and professional employees. The Union has done nothing but hold me back.

As far as LCO's go, I agree that we need some type of "professional standard" that should be met to hold those professionals up above the rest. Those standards have to be defined and then the organization has to establish some type of legimaticy and credibility for it to work.

If someone can figure out how to get something like that started, let me know. I'll be on board.

Brian

juststarting023
02-15-2004, 08:23 PM
I can tell people this, I believe if they let the gates open for all these people to come over the border to work in this country they are going to drive the cost of labor way down.With that being said, If you do not have a colledge education in this country in the near future you will not have a pot to piss in, you will probably make 20 to 25k a year if that and after a 5 or 10 years of that, I can say I believe unions will make a big comeback people will get tired of working for nothing. Just look at the cost of things anymore, Big business is out of control and I mean government also actually they are 1 and the same, you kiss my a$$ Ill kiss yours.Does'nt matter who gets elected both parties have a plan to let these people into this country thats good for some of you bigger Lco's out there but little guys look out.You will be working for whatever the going rate is for those people. I don't always agree with unions I grew up with everyone in my family in unions but the government and big business has found away around them for now, they just move the work out of the country along with all their money and dont pay taxes and leave the burden on small business.

locutus
02-15-2004, 08:43 PM
The concept looks good a first glance, but given the history of labor unions in this country, I would have to conclude that eventually it would be corrupted by the thugs elected to run it.

sgrprincees
02-15-2004, 08:47 PM
If you were to organize a group for the owners I would worry about it becoming a trust.

mbricker
02-16-2004, 02:34 AM
What we should be interested in is not UNIONS, but PROFESSIONAL LAWN CARE ASSOCIATIONS. Band together in your area; when you have some numbers, lobby hard for city/county/state regulation of lawn care. The primary reason is NOT so some agency can tell you how to run your business, although there will be some of that. The whole idea is to make it difficult for the scrubs to operate, with licensing-insurance-reporting requirements, so they aren't driving down prices in your market.

But when I talked it up here a couple of years ago, all I heard (and I've read plenty of it here) was "I'm not about to stand up and ask for more regulation."

GarPA
02-16-2004, 05:32 AM
mbricker...I think you and I are on the same page on this issue.

Union no
Some sort of professional certification or accredidation...yes.

Many of us attribute the low price problem to "ease of entry" into this business. Little wonder. Yesterday a guy was working at Wendys, and next week he takes his MTD and starts knocking on our customers doors offering low ball rates. He Knows nada about landscape and turf practices. His entry into the business is perceived no differently than Johnny the Neighbor who takes Daddys lawnboy up and down the neighborhood asking if anyone needs their grass mowed.

If we dont work towards getting at least a minimal standard of knowledge to enter this business, then we need to stop whining about the know-nothings that drag this industry into the hole its been it for a decade or more.