PDA

View Full Version : Exmark questions ...


facelessfriend
02-15-2004, 04:50 PM
I have just started in this business part time last year. Having more customers this year I need to get a ZTR. I am not interested in walk-behinds.
I posted i before regarding Gravely's new 34z at $4000. It's only 34". Most my lawns are small but I'm looking for 1/2 to 3/4 acre residential lawns. I took ( Bruce I think it was ) the advise and started looking at 42 to 44 inch ZTRs (no bigger). Money is tight as I plan to pay cash. I looked at encore ... but they seemed on the lower end of quality. Gravely has a 44" at $6500.
I went to Wiengartz (dealer) and they had a Lazer CT - LCT4418KC for $4999 (44") . But the engine is a 18 hspr Koehler
- SINGLE NOT TWIN . It is a lower profile and smaller casters in front and a little smaller frame that the Lazer HP. Has anyone used this commercially? What do you think about the 18 not being a twin piston?
Now the Lazer HP LHP4417K is a little beefier (bigger casters) and frame with a twin 17hspr Kaw. It also has a better seat and a better air filter and still a 44" cut ... but it is $6499 (list is 7214) and I can get a free Redmax EB7001 backpack blower worth $500 or the cash ... $375.00.
It's a stretch to buy the HP ... the CT would save me some cash.
What do you experts think? The Gravely is the same as the Lazer HP ... so I'm leaning towards the Exmark .... help is needed.

John Gamba
02-15-2004, 05:01 PM
Go Lazer HP 48" 20 Kohler for about 6800. Or do the 44 HP its better built then the ct. The ct is made for the home owner.

John Gamba
02-15-2004, 05:07 PM
Heres the 48, There ia alot more deck and HP's to do half acre or bigger lawns.
John

CNE
02-15-2004, 06:39 PM
$6500 for the Lazer 44" is too high. I bought a new 60" 23HP Kohler for $7100. Toro dealer here has 48" 18 HP Kohler for $4100. I would look around at some other dealers. You can beat those prices. Why not a walkbehind with a sulky? I love mine, I can do small yards walking and throw the pin through the sulky and do larger yards with no walking. It's a 48" Hyrdo Gravely. I bought it with only 18 hours for only $3000. I foyu will shop around, you will be surprised what you can find. A lot of dealers have some leftover last year's models cheap.

facelessfriend
02-15-2004, 07:22 PM
I thought so as well. They will credit the blower but for only $375 ... still $6124.
What could be a expected "good & reasonable price". I don't mind paying for top of the line product ... but I don't want to get ripped off either.
Anyone else have a newer 44" lazer hp ... if you don't mind ... what did you pay (if purchased new).
I live in Michigan ... Wiengartz are known to be high priced. Thanks

Mac V2.0
02-15-2004, 07:31 PM
if your dealer doesnt make a profit, he wont be around and without your dealer your machine wont get serviced...so why would you want to take him and yourself out of business over a few hundred dollars?

Quality Cuts PLS
02-15-2004, 07:41 PM
I purchased a Lazer Z HP 44", 20HP Kohler in December for $6550.00, including shipping for special order, mulch kit for $135.00, and Comfort Ride suspension platform for $199.00.
I looked at Gravely, while a little cheaper, it is not the machine my Exmarks are, and there is no way the dealer is better than mine.
My dealer does a lot to take care of me, and that means a lot more to me than saving a few bucks at purchase. Buy the Exmark, you will not regret it, also, if you take care of your dealer , he will take care of you.

facelessfriend
02-15-2004, 07:44 PM
Mac ... I fully expect the dealer to make a "reasonable" profit. As I stated ... I'm new to this and I'm seeking advise of those of you who know what to expect. Example ... the government buys a toilet seat from a vendor for $600.00 ... is it worth it? There is
a fine line to what is reasonable and what is not. My wife thinks I'm crazy for spending almost $7000 for a mower. I need to make sure she understands I did my homework. Hope that clears it up.
Can you help?

Navig8r
02-15-2004, 08:06 PM
Ask yourself this.. If you buy something that is basically as cheap as you can get away with.. are you gonna end up with a machine that you grow out of in a year or so?
That being said.... why not consider financing partially if the purchase of the right machine is gonna "hurt" you financially to pay cash?
On the issue of the machines...... I have not seen a CT first hand, but I have an HP, and from what I see, I would not want a CT.... for ALL the reasons you mentioned.... right down to the seat.....and especially for the twin.
If I were in your position... assuming you will only own one machine... I would buy a Hydro WB with a good sulky.
The only reason I did not go that route myself was that I already owned the Scag WB (belt Drive) and I figured the ZTR was a better long term purchase.
Note on the CT vs. HP... the '04 HP is listed as having the Ultra-Cut deck..... I wish my '02 did.... The CT has the Tri-Vantage.

Quality Cuts PLS
02-15-2004, 08:16 PM
All Lazer HP's have Tri-Vantage decks, in 44", 48", and 52" sizes. Full-size Lazers have Ultra-Cut decks, in 52", 60", and 72" sizes.

jason r.
02-15-2004, 08:24 PM
I have an 2002 lazer hp 44 with the 17 kawi. Bought new for 4,999.00 on sale. List price was 6,399.00 . Awesome machine, has been very reliable and seems like it will last many more years. It does feel a bit underpowered when mulching thick southern grasses. Side discharging or bagging it has no problem at all.

jason r.
02-15-2004, 08:29 PM
Here's a picture! Actually, I was looking at walk behind's at the time but couldn't pass on this deal. 4,999.00

BULLGRAZER
02-15-2004, 08:34 PM
Quality Cuts PLS wrote:

I purchased a Lazer Z HP 44", 20HP Kohler in December for $6550.00, including shipping for special order, mulch kit for $135.00, and Comfort Ride suspension platform for $199.00.
I looked at Gravely, while a little cheaper, it is not the machine my Exmarks are, and there is no way the dealer is better than mine.
My dealer does a lot to take care of me, and that means a lot more to me than saving a few bucks at purchase. Buy the Exmark, you will not regret it, also, if you take care of your dealer , he will take care of you.
____________________________

I purchased a eXmark 44 with a little different configuration - BUT - I totally agree with Quality Cuts PLS remarks about the dealer. I have the same situation here and these relationships, if maintained properly, can prove to be invaluable - been so for us time and time again. May spend a little extra here and there but sure enough I'll save a little here and there too and even have referrals thrown at me - I'm talking a Dallas Texas dealer (no small town 3 companies for customers to choose from stuff). Dealer relationship is very important - at least to The BULL GRAZERS Team. Its like anything in the professional business world - professional courtesy is a two way street.

I live 38 miles from my dealer with 6 other reputable dealers within 10 miles of my house - there is a real reason for this and not because I like to drive to Dallas - becasue I don't!

AND...eXmark is just quality!

-=KC=-

lawnman_scott
02-15-2004, 09:17 PM
Originally posted by Mac V2.0
if your dealer doesnt make a profit, he wont be around and without your dealer your machine wont get serviced...so why would you want to take him and yourself out of business over a few hundred dollars?

I dont think the dealer will be going out of business for taking a few hundred off the price, and if he does he probably wasnt worth having anyway. Stay in school.

Quality Cuts PLS
02-16-2004, 12:21 AM
The dealers don't make as much as you think on these mowers.
Facelessfriend was quoted about $700.00 off list and a free $500.00 blower. To me thats a killer deal because even if you got a little more off on the mower, you would probably still have to buy a $500.00 blower. Again take care of your dealer, he is in business to make money, same as you. If he can't make his profit, he won't be there to take care of you in the future. I let my dealer make what he needs to, if he gives me a deal, good for me. I make sure I make my minimum profit or I don't do the work. I wouldn't expect my dealer to not make money of off me. Technically the equipment cost is irrelevant, because it will make you much more money than it's worth. Personally I think it is a good deal - go for it. It is a great machine, I chose the 20HP Kohler for the canister air filtration, and if the engine would have to be replaced for any reason it is less expensive than the Kawasaki. Again good machine, great deal.

facelessfriend
02-16-2004, 08:56 AM
Thanks for all the replies. Lot of good points. As I said ... I expect the dealer to make his money. I just don't want to be overcharged. It sounds like the dealer is giving me a fair shake. Except for the gentleman who paid $4999. What was up with that? Was it used?
Thanks again ...

65hoss
02-16-2004, 09:06 AM
That is not a bad price for the HP. Get the blower. Best one on the market.

The HP will allow you to get the work done more effeciently. The Kawi makes more torque and torque is used in the grass.

Most people don't realize their motors (kawi or kohler) need the RPM's adjusted pretty regularly. They don't have tiny tachs and don't think things change. That is why most think their motor doesn't work as well. Throttle cables stretch on a pretty regular basis. They must be adjusted to keep the rpm's up to the correct level. You will not notice the sound difference.

65hoss
02-16-2004, 09:08 AM
I've owned 2 HP's since 2000 and I would buy another one tomorrow if the need arises.

dmk395
02-16-2004, 09:21 AM
exmark makes a nice machine

amw
02-16-2004, 09:48 AM
Just a little comment on this..
I live in michigan and deal with that Wiengartz, and the one on van dyke near m59...

from what i have been told by atleat 3 OTHER dealers is that any exmark mover sold in merto dertoit area (no mater which dealer you buy from) comes thru Wiengartz as they sell to the other dealers

yes Wiengartz is known for high price....
But also offer GREAT service they bend over backwards for me all the time

I would go with Wiengartz if you want exmark!

.02

landscapingpoolguy
02-16-2004, 11:20 AM
BUy an exmark 52' HP... if yur gonna go for ZTR 52 is the smallest i would go.......There really are only two size machines ya really need...a 36 to get through gates and a 52 for open areas......anything smaller then a 52 is really a waste for yur money...ill bet the 52 is only a few bucks more then the 44 and yur not gonna get that 44 through any gates anyways so why not go for a 52?

Chuck

cush
02-20-2004, 07:35 PM
Just got a quote today for a exmark 48hp w/21hp kaw 6999.00 seems reasonable. Ultravac was 1198.00 and drive kit 90.00, 236.00 for the stripe kit and 146.00 for the mulching kit.

Are these fair prices, if not what should I pay for each unit.

I mow mostly commercial and also want to know if this would be the best mower for the $ in the exmark brand.

Thanks cush

greengator
02-20-2004, 09:23 PM
i bought a lazer z hp 52 23hp for 6400 2 weeks ago, had a 110 hours but perfect shape.

brucec32
02-21-2004, 12:01 AM
Originally posted by facelessfriend
I have just started in this business part time last year. Having more customers this year I need to get a ZTR. I am not interested in walk-behinds.
I posted i before regarding Gravely's new 34z at $4000. It's only 34". Most my lawns are small but I'm looking for 1/2 to 3/4 acre residential lawns. I took ( Bruce I think it was ) the advise and started looking at 42 to 44 inch ZTRs (no bigger). Money is tight as I plan to pay cash. I looked at encore ... but they seemed on the lower end of quality. Gravely has a 44" at $6500.
I went to Wiengartz (dealer) and they had a Lazer CT - LCT4418KC for $4999 (44") . But the engine is a 18 hspr Koehler
- SINGLE NOT TWIN . It is a lower profile and smaller casters in front and a little smaller frame that the Lazer HP. Has anyone used this commercially? What do you think about the 18 not being a twin piston?
Now the Lazer HP LHP4417K is a little beefier (bigger casters) and frame with a twin 17hspr Kaw. It also has a better seat and a better air filter and still a 44" cut ... but it is $6499 (list is 7214) and I can get a free Redmax EB7001 backpack blower worth $500 or the cash ... $375.00.
It's a stretch to buy the HP ... the CT would save me some cash.
What do you experts think? The Gravely is the same as the Lazer HP ... so I'm leaning towards the Exmark .... help is needed.

Ok, here's a little more input on the matter from me. : )

The CT is just not enough mower. It's fine for a homeowner, and will do ok for commercial work, but day in day out you will be much more productive with a more powerful mower. 18hp single, I can't imagine it has much torque. And even the small displacement 17hp twin kawi on the 44" exmark is marginal for tall or thick grass. Just about any mower can take an inch off cool season turf, but really dense or tall grass you'll have problems. The CT will also probably not last as long, not having as heavy duty construction.

The Gravely looks good, at least on paper. But always remember than MSRP on a mower is not the same as what you'll have to pay, especially this time of year when discounts are flying around. I have seen several new Gravelys pop up on Ebay from time to time at very attractive prices, if money is tight. Offered by dealers, so warranty and financing would still be there.

You can buy a Lazer HP 44"/17hp just about anywhere for $5999, I see ads for them frequently. But I would step up to the 20hp Kohler. I had the 18hp Kohler (same engine basically, and same torque numbers) on a previous HP and it did fine. 1100 hours with no major problems and it sold for $3500 at 4 1/2 years old. Paid about $6000 way back then. Cheap mower to own. If you do gates a lot, 44" is good. But the 48" will have a little more trim side edge to work with and be around 10% more productive. So you'll have to make a choice on that too.

The blower isn't free, of course. They just jack up your price accordingly to pay for the "free" blower.


I would say stretch. It will cost more to use an inferior mower in the long run. I can only imagine how poor the resale on the "residential use" CT would be vs. an HP or full size Lazer. So when you were ready to step up to more power (soon probably) you would lose on resale. The costs of these mowers is so cheap in the big picture, we sometimes forget and go for the upfront savings. But if a mower lasts 2,000 hours and you mow 6,000 residential lawns with it, that's only $1/lawn. You'll make many times that more in increased productivity with a better unit. The price difference becomes negligible in the long run. But if you have limits on what you can afford, I understand that too.

brucec32
02-21-2004, 12:22 AM
Originally posted by landscapingpoolguy
BUy an exmark 52' HP... if yur gonna go for ZTR 52 is the smallest i would go.......There really are only two size machines ya really need...a 36 to get through gates and a 52 for open areas......anything smaller then a 52 is really a waste for yur money...ill bet the 52 is only a few bucks more then the 44 and yur not gonna get that 44 through any gates anyways so why not go for a 52?

Chuck

"a few bucks". Try about $1000 to $1400. The guy was clear that he's on a tight budget.

Wrong, a 44" will get through any standard 4' wide gate where often a 48" won't and certainly a 52" won't. I have a 44" toro wb and used it on about 10 properties last year where even my 48" wouldn't fit. Lifesaver.

36" deck mowers often won't fit through many 3' gates, ironically. Since usually they're more like 37" wide. Sometimes you can squeeze them through, sometimes you can't. Sometimes the guy who made the gate was sloppy and it's really 35" wide.

Smaller than 52" a "waste" eh? Do the math. You would have to be mowing an area 56 feet wide for a 52" deck to save you even A SINGLE PASS vs. a 48" deck. Read his original post. How many 1/4 or 1/2 acre lots do you know of that have unobstructed expanses of grass that wide? And how many passes does one have to save to equal $1000 or more? Now mowing football fields and national parks, that's a different story.

The 52" has a better trim edge, I believe. I used one as a loaner last year but I have forgotten for sure. But the 48" trim edge is satisfactory for an experienced user, will fit in the back of any full or mid sized pickup truck between the wheel wells, which some find useful, and can better handle some types of warm season grass w/o gouging or leaving lines on slopes. It is also handy if you do choose a 32" wb deck for gates (gets through everything) to have a 48" deck that uses the same blades.

So there is no "one size fits all" best mower. That's why they make them in different sizes.

brucec32
02-21-2004, 12:25 AM
Originally posted by cush
Just got a quote today for a exmark 48hp w/21hp kaw 6999.00 seems reasonable. Ultravac was 1198.00 and drive kit 90.00, 236.00 for the stripe kit and 146.00 for the mulching kit.

Are these fair prices, if not what should I pay for each unit.

I mow mostly commercial and also want to know if this would be the best mower for the $ in the exmark brand.

Thanks cush

Cush I paid $6800 plus tax this time last year for that unit from a big dealer at their "open house" type special price. I think I found a mulch kit for roughly the same price. Sounds close enough. They added the ROPS so that would explain the price difference.

Mortymower
09-25-2004, 01:17 AM
Facelessfriend, I live in Jackson MS and I am about to by an Exmark HP 44 with 17 twin, Can you give me the name of your dealer so I can see if my dealer will give me that free blower also because I am looking into those as well. Morty

Runner
09-25-2004, 08:18 AM
Faceless,
Another thing you can do is give our local dealer a call just for a cost comparison. It is Atherton Road Sales, here in the Flint area. They have a website (no prices) that you can get their phone number from. If you do a Google search, or go onto Exmarks site, you can find them through the dealer locater feature. They will probably not be much different than your prices, though. I DO know they are generally higher on parts than Weingartz.

cgotro
09-25-2004, 08:45 AM
The Scag tiger cub comes in 48",52" with 24 honda's. Good prices. Also the Hustler Mini Z's come in 44"& 52" with Honda's and Kaw's.Demo all the models you can. Also the scag Z Cat comes in 36 and 42 with 17,19 if you want a smaller mower. have fun and ride them all before you make your mind up.

Blessed 1
09-25-2004, 01:00 PM
Make the strech to get the HP. And get the biggest deck (48") if you can. My dealer keeps 1-2 used 44" Lazer Z HP's that people have bought and traded in within the first year because they out grow them. Have you considered a used one with 100-200 hrs. I see them here all the time for around 4K.

odin
09-25-2004, 02:05 PM
Id try for the 48 ..actually id try for the 52 but since you said your were on a tight budget i wont discuss the reasons why the 52 is quite a bit better.

And also the 48 will be fine on 1/4 to 1/2 acre lawns.

There is very little trim side on the 48 and i believe the 44 has none at all.

Lack of trim side can make it tough around rataining walls lawn edgeing etc.