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View Full Version : Billy Goat 33inch mower


Kingbman1
02-16-2004, 10:32 PM
Does anybody own one of these, or know anything about them, Im interested in buying one.

http://www.billygoat.com/frame_mowing_line.html ( http://www.billygoat.com/frame_mowing_line.html

Kingbman1
02-16-2004, 10:38 PM
http://www.billygoat.com/frame_mowing_line.html

Fareway Lawncare
02-16-2004, 11:17 PM
This may be a better bet if you're looking for a cheap gate mower. SD hydro & differential.

http://www.betteroutdoorproducts.com/products.htm

Grass Master
02-16-2004, 11:56 PM
The Billy Goat is homeowner quality....very light weight handles etc.

Look at the Bradley mowers instead..much heavier built

www.bradleymowers.com

DLCS
02-17-2004, 12:26 AM
I didn't know Billy Goat made homeowner quality equipment, looks to be a commercial mower to me. Looks like those Bradly mowers must be purchased through distributor only? I've never seen anyone use a Bradly.

gogetter
02-17-2004, 11:00 AM
I've seen those Billy Goats on eBay for about $1500. I looked at these at a recent show, and I thought they looked pretty decent for the right use. In other words, I wouldn't use one as a main mower, but for very small properties and small gated backyards it looks like it would be a decent choice.
Of course, that's assuming it cuts good!.

I have a few lawns where I can't even get my 36" mower through the gate, so a 33" would fit nicely.

One thing I liked about these was the very small footprint. They are really compact, much shorter then a traditional WB. Which would be good in a compact yard, plus it would take up less trailer space.

If I was in the market for a mower under 36", the Billy Goat would be on my list of options to demo.

Moguy
02-17-2004, 01:36 PM
I purchased a Contour last year for certain properties and its taken the place of the other push mower I had. The contour is heavy in certain situations but have never had a problem with it mechanically.

brucec32
02-17-2004, 03:12 PM
Both these designs look interesting for occasional use. They're not beefy full size mowers, but then they're not supposed to be. I like the idea of being able to squeeze one on the back where a bigger mower wouldn't fit. And not having to invest $2500 in a rarely used mower is nice too. But as always, the devil is in the details, so they'd have to be available for testing for me to be interested.

brucec32
02-17-2004, 03:13 PM
reading more, the better outdoors mower seems to have a very innovative height adjust design for the fixed deck. I've always thought they could do fixed decks better.

Kingbman1
02-17-2004, 05:50 PM
i was thinking about using it as my main mower, but i only do 10 lawns. I only have a limited amount of money to spend.

brucec32
02-19-2004, 03:54 AM
I got some info on the better outdoor products one. It's got a true instant reverse, but you're steering manually. But it's only 300 lbs, I believe, so that might not be too terrible with some practice and tricks of the trade using momentum. I dunno.

It does not currently have a mulching kit available, or bagger, but he's working on getting gator blades and accelerator baggers.

MSRP $1999. Not really a huge price advantage over basic belt drive mowers from the big boys.

I see the short length and hydro transmission as the big pluses. The negatives are unproven record, unproven durability, and probable inability to use a sulky with it. That would limit it to back yard gate use only for me, kind of as a super 21" type mower, not a true midsize.

Making it a 34" or less would probably have made more sense since it would get more sales as a gate mower. It's probably not up to wide area mowing.

GPDesign1
02-19-2004, 08:37 AM
Bruce,
Part of our test program was with a large LCO in NC. His guys were accustomed to running 36 Scag hydros. They actually preferred running the BOP Quick36... said it was easier to use and gave a much better quality of cut. Seeing is believing.
Gary

Kingbman1
02-19-2004, 03:07 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2374480102&category=50377



I could get a belt drive bobcat for that much.

gogetter
02-19-2004, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by Kingbman1
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2374480102&category=50377


I could get a belt drive bobcat for that much.

Not sure I understand your point. There's a BIG difference between a belt drive and a hydro. The Outdoor Products mower is a hydro. Plus it has electric start with recoil backup. Most mowers will cost about $300 more for the electric start feature.

Kingbman1
02-19-2004, 04:51 PM
i was saying i could get a well known good quality bob cat for the price of the quick 36, which is not well know and probably doesnt perform as well as even a belt drive bobcat.

gogetter
02-19-2004, 05:31 PM
Originally posted by Kingbman1
and probably doesnt perform as well as even a belt drive bobcat.

Based on what??:confused:

WeatherMan
02-19-2004, 05:34 PM
I bought a billy goat brush cutter about 2 years ago, but only used it once It worked good just too small for what I needed

Lawn Dog2001
02-19-2004, 08:04 PM
I think that billy Goat mower looks pretty solid. This is the first time i have ever really read about one, or seen pictures. The spindles look to be comercial grade, which is important.

I really dont understand the need for 3 blades equalling 33" though. Thats just an extra spindle for a 13hp engine to turn. You would get just as quality a cut with two blades.

I agree with what Gogetter said, I think it would be a great small wb for the right instances. Probably not a good main mower.

The outdoor products mower looks interesting also.

Gabriel Turf
02-19-2004, 08:40 PM
I would get a used belt drive 32 or 36 from a major manufacturer. Like this 32 toro :
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2380276475&category=50376

I wouldn't pay $1850 though, maybe $1200. There should be some in the want-ads soon. Don't worry about hydro vs belt drive. If you do this for any amount of time you will use the money you generate with the small mower to buy a ZTR and then you will try to avoid using the smaller mower. I use my 36 only when I have to (because the lot was so tiny and gated and I already had other customers next door or the money was just too good to pass up.) You will also begin to eliminate properties with gates as your schedule gets full.

And as an added bonus, that mower will be resellable at $1200 for 3 or 4 years and will be worth $900 forever. Not much cost to you. I don't think those souped up homeowner mowers are going to fetch much used....Just my opinion.

Fareway Lawncare
02-19-2004, 08:48 PM
There's better $$$ cutting small town lots than acreages or larger commercials.

Might as well Go For the Gusto.

joed
02-20-2004, 08:51 PM
The Billy Goat seems promising as an occasional use mower. My dealer demoed one and liked it very much and he also sells the troy bilt 33. My concerns would be the fixed deck height adjustment and having 3 blades to turn on a 13 hp motor. That's about 4.33 hp per blade. Would that be enough?

FrankenScagMachines
02-20-2004, 08:59 PM
Originally posted by joed
The Billy Goat seems promising as an occasional use mower. My dealer demoed one and liked it very much and he also sells the troy bilt 33. My concerns would be the fixed deck height adjustment and having 3 blades to turn on a 13 hp motor. That's about 4.33 hp per blade. Would that be enough?
For an 11" blade are you kidding me? Many 21" mowers use 4hp and do just fine. We're talking 10" less here! The load of pulling the machine divided by 3 blades is probably not much more than a 21" mower so that would be plenty of power. I've ran 8hp 32" machines before that did fine swinging one heavy single blade (homeowner riders) I mowed with it at 5 mph most of the time. I ran double high lifts on it once just to see, it had enough power just didn't help on that particular deck. My grandma has a '70's wheel horse with a 42" deck and 10hp Kohler it does fine in normal growth when it's dry. I'd expect more power on a commercial machine, but that 33" 13hp mower is just fine especially since it's so lightweight and not going more than 4mph or so.

rlpenny
05-31-2005, 04:00 AM
[Quick 36 mower] I really dont understand the need for 3 blades equalling 33" though. Thats just an extra spindle for a 13hp engine to turn. You would get just as quality a cut with two blades.
If I did my math right, 3-12" blades at 16,500fpm is faster than 2-18" blades at 18,000fpm...

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?p=1040531#post1040531

TClawn
05-31-2005, 04:51 AM
actually, 18,000fpm is faster than 16,500fpm. no matter how big the blades are, the faster the blade TIP speed, that higher the fpms.

imo, I can't tell the differance between the exmark cut and the quick 36 cut. to me, it evens out, because I mow at around 8mph with the exmark, and around 6mph with the quick, so the exmark has more grass to cut faster.

TClawn
05-31-2005, 04:59 AM
disregard what I said, I just did some math, and the quick actually has a quicker blade tip speed than the exmark.

mbricker
05-31-2005, 05:11 AM
Mr. or Ms. rlpenny, just out of curiousity, why are you bringing up these old threads about Quick and Billygoat wb's?

Richard Martin
05-31-2005, 07:08 AM
disregard what I said, I just did some math, and the quick actually has a quicker blade tip speed than the exmark.

If the Quick is 16,500 fpm and the Exmark is 18,500 (or 18,000, whatever) fpm then the Exmark has a faster blade tip speed. You can do any math you want but that won't change. Simply put, the Exmark blade tip travels 2,000 more feet per minute. It is faster. Considerably faster. I'm not saying that's better, just faster.

Richard Martin
05-31-2005, 07:32 AM
If I did my math right, 3-12" blades at 16,500fpm is faster than 2-18" blades at 18,000fpm...

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?p=1040531#post1040531

You did the math wrong or better said you are comparing apples to oranges.

BTS is affected by engine RPM, real pulley sizes (you can have a pulley with a 5" outer diameter but if the belt rides 1" deep in the pulley then you have a real pulley size of 4") and blade length.

Blade RPM is affected by engine RPM and real pulley size. Blade length has no bearing on blade RPM.

Now while it is true that the Quick blade does have a higher RPM then the Exmark blade it still has a slower BTS.

The real question is: "Is that an advantage?"

I don't know whether it is or not but I do know a couple of things.

The Exmark should discharge grass faster and further.

The Quick blade will hit grass blades more times at a given forward mower speed then the Exmark.

Hypothetically the Exmark should handle wet grass and high moisture content grasses like Crabgrass better then the Quick because it's not cutting the same blades of grass as many times as the Quick making mush.

The grass discharged from the Quick should be a smaller size.

Make what you want of this. These are just my thoughts and are subject to debate.

rlpenny
06-01-2005, 02:37 AM
Mr. or Ms. rlpenny, just out of curiousity, why are you bringing up these old threads about Quick and Billygoat wb's?I don't pay attention to the post dates. Just noted in this thread that someone kept picking on Quick's...er...Better's supposedly low 16,500 blade tip speed. Got me to thinking is 16,500 really that much slower than 18,000? After I dusted off my geometry formulas in the back of my head (yes, I had to verify if 2pi*r=circumference) I was pleasantly surprised to find that at a given forward speed Better's Quick 36 mower, with its 3x12 blade setup at a 16,500fpm blade tip speed ("BTS") should outcut a 2x18 blade setup at 18,000ftm BTS. It was not what I expected when I did the mental excercise. Just thought I'd share my results with the world.

Just ran the numbers and my humble Ariens 21 "trim" mower spins along at a dizzying 17,500fpm BTS!! :dizzy: In my many years of scientific mowing observation with a lowly 21, I've found for any given mower the quality of cut is inversely proportional to the forward ground speed. I figure this inverse relationship is due to the loading (e.g. the inches of grass expected to be cut by each pass of a blade tip) of the blade on underpowered mowers (not likely in your pro setup) at faster ground speeds tends to put more grass to be cut further toward the center of the blade which as we all know has a corresponding decrease in BTS, thus the worse cut.

So, a fast 18,000fpm BTS on a 2x18 blade setup having already being shown mathematically to be inferior at a given forward speed relative to a 3x12 blade setup at 16,500fpm BTS, may I suggest that the fellow running that 2x18"x18,000fpm blade setup at a healthy 8mph clip might get an even worse cut than Quick's cut at the humble 6mph? :)

Oh...almost forgot...it is Mr. :)

Now what I really want to do is go get me a Quick 36 and its 3x12"x16,500fpm BTS and see for myself how it compares to my little Ariens 21 running a single 20.25" blade at 17,500fpm BTS at similar and differing walking speeds.

My hypothesis at the moment is the Quick 36 will eat my thick Zoysia's lunch and won't let my Bermuda lay over at high walking speeds. If my hypothesis holds true, then my wife will be happy with the improved cut, reduced lawn mowing time, and finally be at ease with my, at that point, having spent $2000+ on a new mower. :)

Fareway Lawncare
06-01-2005, 02:42 AM
You Crazy Kids and Your eXtra Blade Chambers...Remember not Only do Smaller Blades Suck More at Mulching .......the Grass Also has to Pass Through an eXtra Chamber when discharging meaning More Clumping Potential in Lush Turf...


Why do you Think Hustler Shelved Their Silly 4 Chamber 48" Gatestar...Too Many Chambers...2 Chamber 36"...3 Chamber 48"...Don't try to Reinvent the Wheel.

BTW the BillyGoat 33" Sucks Large...I Used one for a Week..It's a Slightly Fancier Version of a Sutech 33"...Pure Garbage.

rlpenny
06-01-2005, 02:55 AM
...Blade length has no bearing on blade RPM...True in the engineering sense. However, at a given BTS, which is what the marketers focus on, blade size matters most as RPM can be determined per the following formula:

RPM = BTS / [(pi x L) / 12 ] where:
RPM = revolutions per minute of blade
BTS = Blade Tip Speed (fpm)
pi = about 3.14
L = Blade length (in.)


Asked another way, if a 48" cutting mower had four deck options, each the same price and spec'd at 18,000fpm BTS, which would you order from a quality of cut perspective?...the 1x48", 2x24", 3x16", or 4x12" blade setup? The corresponding RPMs are 1433, 2866, 4299, and 5732, respectively.

rlpenny
06-01-2005, 03:16 AM
Now while it is true that the Quick blade does have a higher RPM then the Exmark blade it still has a slower BTS. The real question is: "Is that an advantage?" ...The Quick blade will hit grass blades more times at a given forward mower speed then the Exmark. Hypothetically the Exmark should handle wet grass and high moisture content grasses like Crabgrass better then the Quick because it's not cutting the same blades of grass as many times as the Quick making mush. The grass discharged from the Quick should be a smaller size.

Make what you want of this. These are just my thoughts and are subject to debate.Great thoughts! I'd not call it a debate...more a discussion that no doubt others will read and enjoy. Me, I'm just a curious homeowner with too much time in the wee hours of the morning on his hands that has a habit of researching each purchase to death. Thus, my many nights of reading on this and similar forums and few posts.

I figure both Exmark and Quick have advantages and disadvantages. For me, I'm just a homeowner with a day job tired of guiding a 21 mower around with the means to pay a lawn service but a wife that won't allow it. Thus, after my test drives of six ZTRs and two WBs left me still wanting, I stumbled across the Quick 36. I figure it should cut wide, store well, mulch fine, and save me some time. The single hydro should replicate my Ariens friction drive (w/differential) and I get a powered reverse to boot. Plus, it'll only cost me $200 to "rent" the machine should I just not like it. So for my situation, the Quick 36 may be just the ticket.

In my inexperienced estimation, if I were quitting my day job and doing lawn service full time, I'd get either a Wright Stander or Scag ZTR. None of that sulky stuff for me (I never did well at water skiing).

Richard Martin
06-01-2005, 06:13 AM
Asked another way, if a 48" cutting mower had four deck options, each the same price and spec'd at 18,000fpm BTS, which would you order from a quality of cut perspective?...the 1x48", 2x24", 3x16", or 4x12" blade setup? The corresponding RPMs are 1433, 2866, 4299, and 5732, respectively.

There is a whole lot more that goes into quality of cut than mere blade speed or RPM. Blade lift and deck design (also called Trial and Error which is the way most manufacturers do it), mower speed and grass type, length, density, moisture on the grass blades and the moisture content of the grass blades themselves are also a part of quality of cut. Even something as simple as how far down the length of the blade sharpening has been done affects the cut.

You could sit down with Issac Newton himself and never be able to mathematically figure out if a particular mower will produce a quality cut on a particular lawn because there are too many variables that are constantly changing, even on the same lawn.

Which mower to buy? Demo, demo, demo.

rlpenny
06-02-2005, 01:21 PM
Which mower to buy? Demo, demo, demo.Agreed. No one around here will let you demo on grass. Worse yet, they'll only let you run the blades if you are parked. Thus, the potential buyer has no clue as to how the mower (ztr's in particular) might behave (vibration, noise, etc.) while moving forward with the throttle wide open and blades running. Basicallly, the demo process around here is you get to here the engine and just walk or drive the mower around the parking lot with blades off. Also, no entity around here rents any mower bigger than a 21 trim mower so I (again, just a homeowner) can buy local and then resell if I just hate the mower, or I can do the Quick 36 thing and send it back and only be out about $200 for the 30 day "rental"....er...shipping fees.