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turfsolutions
02-20-2004, 09:19 PM
What is the amount of product per 1000 square feet?

What are you paying for it?

Any other feedback is welcome.

Thanks

agrolawn81
02-21-2004, 10:03 AM
You want to apply @.25 lb ai/acre or .75 oz/1000 sq ft. Price paid in 2003 was $270 for 2.5 gallons. I have found the best approach for crabgrass control is to use granular in round 1 and go with with liquid dimension in round 2 , spraying just your hot spot areas i.e. tree belts, driveway edges, and sunny areas prone to crabgrass. Taking an extra five minutes or so on round 2 to do this will eliminate service calls for crabgrass in July/ Aug , reduce post emergent material cost, and make you look like a hero! However, since swithcing from pendimethalin three years ago, I have found that spotted spurge has become more of a problem. Seems pendi help control spotted spurge better than dimension.

DUSTYCEDAR
02-21-2004, 10:43 AM
turf from what i have found u have to spray out of a tank sprayer rather than a ride on unit just not enough volume
correct me if i am wrong

turfsolutions
02-21-2004, 11:30 AM
Dusty - I do need to find out the lowest recommended amount of mix per k.

I plan on using a granular fert with team for my march/april ap. I was looking into using the liquid dimension for my 2nd ap mixed with my broadleaf control. This may not work if I am going low volume.

To answer your question about the ride on unit not being able to be used for this type of ap. The z spray can spray at different rates per k depending on the nozzles. I can put out 1 gallon per k if I choose either my changing the nozzle or adjusting the speed I am traveling. With my low volume aps I put out .20 gallons per thousand square feet.

Agro lawn - what are your thoughts on late winter dimension aps and its effect on fall overseeding. The label recommends waiting a year on some types of grass? My thoughts were to use team 1st and dimension as the 2nd of the split ap to give the younger grass more time to root. Just a thought.

James Cormier
02-21-2004, 02:57 PM
We offered a 2nd treatment of crab to customers this year on our renewal form, I plan on using the perma green and spraying dimension, however when I did my budget for this service I used acclaim as my basis so if I have to that will be my product.

Right now 90% of customers are signed up for the season with 55% taking that 2nd treatment. I sure wish I thought of this a few years back

turfsolutions
02-23-2004, 03:39 PM
No one else used liquid dimension?

How about another liquid pre emergant??

agrolawn81
02-23-2004, 08:57 PM
turf- Any lawns which were overseeded in Fall would be better off with a straight fert in round 1; usually last week March / first week of April. Apply Dimension early May for round 2 @.25lb ai/acre. You might want to let customers know who you seeded in the Fall that their lawns will probably get some breakage with crabgrass this first season . Just think you should wait at least until first week of May before running Pre-emergents. Dimension will give you a longer window being it is labeled for early post emergent. In regards to other pre-emergents, Have used pendi in liquid(EC) yellow and smells. Barricade has a longer residual and supposedly works better on hilly lawns, have yet to try it, also a little more expensive and I believe can only be purchased in 30 gallon containers on the liquid end. Also never used dimension through low volume in perma green. I usually apply tank mixed @2.5-3.0 gal./1000 and get excellent control.

turfsolutions
02-23-2004, 10:10 PM
agro lawns - I appreciate the response. I don't think it would be a good idea to go until May before applying pre emergant. The soil temps hit crabgrass levels in late March early April around here. Not sure how it is in Ct. Last year was the worst year for crabgrass since I have been in biz. I agree that putting down dimension in late march early april may be a bad idea. I was curious how others felt on the matter.

I will be putting down team with fertilizer on the first pre m ap. and possibly dimension liquid on the second. I still have not heard from the company. I emailed them asking what the recommended carrier should be for the liquid dimension. Their label literature on their website just said use a sufficient amount of carrier. Not too specific.

Pilgrims' Pride
02-24-2004, 09:52 AM
Hey James,

I like your idea of the second crabgrass control as an option!

I know there are many who "guarantee" crabgrass control and spot spray as needed during the season but you do have a very good idea.

Especially considering the price of post emergent crabgrass controls.

Good luck with it.

Bob

tremor
02-24-2004, 12:19 PM
2003 was the second year in a row that Crabgrass didn't germinate in one big push in Southern New England. Usually we see a flush of germination during the first 2 weeks of May. But no such flush has occurred.

Instead we're seeing constant germination with irregular peaks right through August. So single applications of all Pres have failed for 2 years in a row.

No matter which Pre you use, 2 applications is becoming mandatory unless you like spending your summers spot spraying service calls & jumping through hoops to prevent cancelations.

Offering a second application as a chargable option isn't a bad idea since it get's you off the hook to some extent for failures. But for $18 per acre, I'd probably just stick it in the program & enjoy reduced customer turnover & get more referals instead. Satsfied customers & referals pay for themselves.

.188 lbs AI/A is the low Dimension rate for the Northeast. The EC form is not as effective as the newer Dimension Ultra due to volatility issues. Ultra also doesn't smell as bad either.

Forget low volume machines like the PermaGreen for any liquid Pre. Indeed the majority of broadleaf herbicides aren't really legal at these low volumes regardless of how well they work.

Steve

turfsolutions
02-24-2004, 03:35 PM
"Forget low volume machines like the PermaGreen for any liquid Pre. Indeed the majority of broadleaf herbicides aren't really legal at these low volumes regardless of how well they work."

Steve - can you elaborate on this for me. Are you saying broadleaf herbicides are not legal, or that they are ineffective at low volume aps. I spray super trimec mix at .20 gallons per k with great results. Just curious what you meant.

tremor
02-25-2004, 05:29 AM
Neither. Many pesticide labels mandate a specific volume of water per acre. Fungicides are pretty no-brainer. Less than 40 gallons per acre & they just don't work. But post-emergent herbicides generally perform best at around 35 gallons per acre. So some have language on their labels that require no less water than this.

For instance:

Trimec Classic : 20-260 gallons water per acre
Lesco Threeway:40-80 gallons water per acre
Threeway Ester II 20-240 gallons water per acre

Since the label is the law, any deviation from these instructions is a violation of law.

Not all the folks using Permagreens are within the legal range for the herbicides they're using.

Steve

Grassmechanic
02-25-2004, 07:49 AM
Originally posted by tremor
Many pesticide labels mandate a specific volume of water per acre. Fungicides are pretty no-brainer. Less than 40 gallons per acre & they just don't work. But post-emergent herbicides generally perform best at around 35 gallons per acre. So some have language on their labels that require no less water than this.

Steve I wonder how I kept my golf course weed and disease free for 8 years. I always used 30 gal/acre, in accordance with label, and always had good results.

turfsolutions
02-25-2004, 10:30 AM
I thinks this topic is an interesting one. I am looking forward to more imput from other lco's.

tremor
02-26-2004, 11:12 AM
Sorry folks & thank you Mike. Never post here at 4:30AM before the first cup of Joe kicks in! LOL

I said "less than 40 gallons per acre" doesn't work. I meant 14 gallons per acre which is about what one of my customers applies per acre with their PermaGreens.

10-20 gallons per acre with an EC fungicide like Banner or Spectator might work (a little!) on low cut Bent. But forget about doing it on 3" tall home lawns. Coverage is key to successfully managing turf diseases, particularly when the disease is going down in the crown.

But I'll reiterate my point regarding weed control.

Less than 20 gallons per acre is ILLEGAL if the herbicide label requires that much water be used. Even if it does work.

Sorry for the confusion.

Steve

General Grounds
02-26-2004, 11:12 PM
:blob3: turfsolutions great idea with the second app as a liquid, we do the same, but ill add a little twist to that, i also throw a bottle of gallery in there, it is awesome, my problems lawns as far as weeds go are all but gone, it is a great pre-m for broadleaf weeds. you guys should pick out a few of your lawns that you know get wicked weeds and overspray the lawn with gallery, you can even do it with your 1st app., i think you love the results, i did.

turfsolutions
02-27-2004, 10:08 AM
General Grounds,

Who makes Gallery?

What does it cost per 1000 square foot?

Sounds like a good idea for those new customers with a lot of broadleaf weeds.

TurfSolutions

General Grounds
02-27-2004, 10:27 PM
:blob3: turfsolutions, gallery is made by dow it cost me $ 104 per pound and i use the entire pound in a 200 gallon mix, i mix dimension at the medium rate, not sure of the exact amount of hand though. i think you'll like it, it makes you look like a wiz kid to these customers who said who ever they had couldnt control the weeds:p . tony