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pines
02-26-2004, 08:21 AM
when you guys mulch around a tree how big a radius do you usually create...1', 1.5', 2'? Also do you first remove all the sod and then use a bed edgedger or do you use the bed edger as a part of the process to remove the sod.

Grassmechanic
02-26-2004, 09:16 AM
Trees less than 6" cal. - spray Round-up & Surflan about 1 1/2' - 2' around tree. Apply mulch 2-3" deep, take care to keep the mulch from touching the tree.

pines
02-26-2004, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by Grassmechanic
Trees less than 6" cal. - spray Round-up & Surflan about 1 1/2' - 2' around tree. Apply mulch 2-3" deep, take care to keep the mulch from touching the tree.

Thanks for replying. When you apply these items is there a certain amount of time after application before you mulch. Also, what is Surflan? I am assuming that Round-Up kills the grass. Any comment on the bed edger portion of my question? Thanks in advance.

NCSULandscaper
02-26-2004, 01:42 PM
Surflan would be a pre-emergent herbicide. As far as mulch rings, my bed edger cant do anything under a 2' radius, so thats what i do around smaller trees. Large trees, i attempt to mulch up to the drip line, as grass just wont grow as well under one, esp around maples and trees that produce lots of surface roots.

D Felix
02-27-2004, 10:50 AM
Remember the rule of thirds when mulching trees. Taking into account the spread of the canopy, mulch rings should be one of the following; 1/3 of canopy, 2/3's of canopy, or 3/3's of canopy.

This will keep the mulch as aesthetically pleasing as possible.:)

HTH.


Dan

Coffeecraver
02-27-2004, 10:57 PM
Use a spade shovel and skim the grass from under the tree
2 to 2 1/2' out ,depending upon the size of the tree. Use the spade to create the edge around the tree
then apply 2 1/2 to 3" of mulch.

Mechanical edgers should not be used under trees, spraying
with round-up and surflan, should not be done under trees if it can be avoided.

GarPA
02-28-2004, 06:01 AM
good info above...aside from the fact that you could damage the root system, we never use trench/bed edgers around trees becuase frankly they dont do well going in a circle. Even the ones with the back wheels that turn do a lousy job going in a circle. Best to cut in the edge by hand.

and PAHLEASE...NO MULCH VOLCANOES AROUND TREES...man we all see this all the time ...best way I know to kill a tree in that it can cause the main roots to "girdle" the tree and eventually kill it or at least stunt its growth

one of these days when I see a Paco piling 3 inches of mulch on top of the 5 inches leftover from last year, I;m gonna have to get out of the truck and have a chat .In case you cant tell, this topic drives me nuts becuase the only reason they do it is to sell more yards of mulch...idiots.

pines
02-28-2004, 06:23 AM
Originally posted by GarPA
good info above...aside from the fact that you could damage the root system, we never use trench/bed edgers around trees becuase frankly they dont do well going in a circle. Even the ones with the back wheels that turn do a lousy job going in a circle. Best to cut in the edge by hand.

and PAHLEASE...NO MULCH VOLCANOES AROUND TREES...man we all see this all the time ...best way I know to kill a tree in that it can cause the main roots to "girdle" the tree and eventually kill it or at least stunt its growth

one of these days when I see a Paco piling 3 inches of mulch on top of the 5 inches leftover from last year, I;m gonna have to get out of the truck and have a chat .In case you cant tell, this topic drives me nuts becuase the only reason they do it is to sell more yards of mulch...idiots.

This is the info I was looking for. Just wanted to find out if the edger was best around a tree.Thanks

D Felix
02-28-2004, 10:17 AM
A couple of times last year I was in the process of removing buildup of old mulch around trees, only to discover a girdling root. Found about 3 of them inside of 2 weeks.

Does anyone know what to look for on the trunk of a tree to clue you into a girdling root?

Anyone?


Dan

GarPA
02-28-2004, 01:29 PM
i asked a certified arborist this very ?..he said the only way to know is to dig below the soil surface. By the time it shows above ground, its usually too late

Grassmechanic
02-28-2004, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by Coffeecraver
spraying
with round-up and surflan, should not be done under trees if it can be avoided. ??? what's the reasoning behind this?

NCSULandscaper
02-28-2004, 04:27 PM
Originally posted by Grassmechanic
??? what's the reasoning behind this?

I have read that trees with lots of surface roots can sustain slight damage due to post and pre emergent herbicides. Never seen any effects but thats what some labels say.

gene gls
02-28-2004, 10:32 PM
OK, What do I look for on the tree trunk? Thanks.........
Gene

D Felix
03-01-2004, 04:34 PM
Sorry about not getting back to this sooner, haven't been online in a couple of days...

The only telltale sign that I know of when it comes to girdling roots, is a trunk with a flat side to it. Not all trees with flat trunks have girdling roots, however. The flat spot develops only after the root starts to grow into the trunk.

If you see a flat spot, it's worth investigating. What I use is a trowel/AML soil knife once the major part of the excavation is done. If there is a girdler, I cut it as close to the flare as possible, and as far away from the trunk as possible and lift the piece out.

If you get into a really nasty situation, it may be best to find someone with an air spade, those make MUCH faster work of the excavation!:D


Dan

Grassmechanic
03-02-2004, 09:16 AM
Originally posted by NCSULandscaper
I have read that trees with lots of surface roots can sustain slight damage due to post and pre emergent herbicides. Never seen any effects but thats what some labels say. My experience in both lab and field, showed no adverse effects of using R-up around the base of trees. R-up has to get into the vascular system of the plant to work. The only way we were able to prove, is that it is only possible through the leaf tissue or through a wound in the bark directly into the cambium layer. Root absorption was non-existent, mostly due to the fact that the R-up was broken down before the roots have a chance for absorption. If you could point me in the direction of a study that has been done, I'd appreciate it.

NCSULandscaper
03-02-2004, 03:04 PM
We did a few studies for that at NC State while i was there. Never found a problem with larger trees with surface roots. However on some labels you do find some warnings about spraying surface roots, but still have not found a problem either. I dont see how roundup can get absorbed through the roots enough to do damage as it would travel with foliar application.

D Felix
03-04-2004, 01:09 AM
grassmechanic-
Hop over to Arboristsite (http://www.arboristsite.com/) and do search in the Commercial Tree Care and Climbing forum... Search for "Roundup study" or some variation. Wade through the results, and you will probably find a link to a study that was done over in Europe that says R-up is bad for the trees.

However, I think you will also find in that same thread remarks about how the study was biased, etc, and really has no validity...

HTH.


Dan

Grassmechanic
03-04-2004, 07:49 AM
Thanks Dan..........

treedoc1
03-04-2004, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by D Felix
A couple of times last year I was in the process of removing buildup of old mulch around trees, only to discover a girdling root. Found about 3 of them inside of 2 weeks.

Does anyone know what to look for on the trunk of a tree to clue you into a girdling root?

Anyone?


Dan

treedoc1
03-04-2004, 01:45 PM
no root flare on a portion or side of the trunk...the tree trunk flat or indented is a quick way of determining possible girdling roots.
Norway maples 90% of the time decline from this problem

D Felix
03-05-2004, 09:55 AM
Any tree with a girdling root will decline. Starts at the top, just like any other root problem. Only remedy is to remove the offending root.


Dan

tiedeman
03-14-2004, 04:42 AM
how big is the tree with the girdling root problem?

D Felix
03-14-2004, 09:07 PM
A tree of virtually any size in a landscape can have a girdling root, if that is what you are asking... I personally have removed them on trees as small as a 3' Jap maple, all the way up to a 18" tree.


Dan

charlies
03-21-2004, 10:57 AM
Originally posted by tiedeman
how big is the tree with the girdling root problem?

it is a hypothetical tree.