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agrolawn81
02-26-2004, 02:34 PM
Have used perma green centri for two full seasons; approx. 500 hours. Think its a tremendous asset for the LCO and couldn't Imagine pushing a spreader anymore on every single lawn. I know there's been hundreds of threads in regards to the perma green but never found any discussions concerning the uniformity/evenness of granular fertilizer. It is my belief that the pattern is heavy on each side and lighter where your tracks are i.e. if you go back to your properties 2-3 weeks after a treatment you will see where you went on lawn by it will be somewhat striped; lighter green where you ran your pattern. This is usually only discernable on weak lawns; 0-2 yrs old, sandy soils, weak CEC soil. Established lawns w/ clay soil and higher CEC's you won't see any striping. I have also used different manufactures of granular ferts and have found some to be more uniform than others. I also overlap each direction back to tires per Perma Green directions and my hopper and paddle are always clean

Would welcome feedback on this topic.

James Cormier
02-26-2004, 04:23 PM
The centri has a cable that opens and shuts the spreader. That cable streches throughout the years. Sometimes if your opening and shutting at the end of each pass the cable can move just slightly and the shoot is not open as much as your last pass.


With the hopper empty open the shoot and measure the width of the opening, If you do this ten times you will have 6 different measurments This is gotta be a big reason for striping lawns. This is a big flaw on the centri, the new ultra has a shaft that opensthe shoot so this will not happen.

heritage
02-26-2004, 04:42 PM
agrolawn81,
It sounds like you have thr centuri model (black hopper with a single discharge chute) The new ultra model has a green lesco hopper with 3 discharge holes. The two outside holes can be closed up as needed to correct the discharge pattern.
When I fert I also spread back to my outside wheel track from my previous pass as you do. On a hungry lawn I have seen on occasion striping where the double overlap of fert is occuring. I DO NOT think low cation exchange is the main reason this is happening.

I believe that the applied rate of fert was to low for that peticular lawn in question and you are getting the darker strips where elements are in adaquate supply (double overlap area)and less of a response where the grass needed a bit more fert. (single overlap)

I also rember using a product called twin win by rockland and they combined synthetic fert with milorganite. The problem........STRIPES! Here's why.....The milorganite they used was greens grade(small particle) and only spread about 4 feet wide. The synthetic urea prills were spreading 8'+
Even though I was spreading to previous wheel marks the

heritage
02-26-2004, 04:43 PM
agrolawn81,
It sounds like you have thr centuri model (black hopper with a single discharge chute) The new ultra model has a green lesco hopper with 3 discharge holes. The two outside holes can be closed up as needed to correct the discharge pattern.
When I fert I also spread back to my outside wheel track from my previous pass as you do. On a hungry lawn I have seen on occasion striping where the double overlap of fert is occuring. I DO NOT think low cation exchange is the main reason this is happening.

I believe that the applied rate of fert was to low for that peticular lawn in question and you are getting the darker strips where elements are in adaquate supply (double overlap area)and less of a response where the grass needed a bit more fert. (single overlap)

I also rember using a product called twin win by rockland and they combined synthetic fert with milorganite. The problem........STRIPES! Here's why.....The milorganite they used was greens grade(small particle) and only spread about 4 feet wide. The synthetic urea prills were spreading 8'+
Even though I was spreading to previous wheel marks the small particle milorganite was not reaching the previous pass.
The stripes were DARK GREEN because milorganite is high in iron. The urea fert has no iron thus the color differance(stripes)
This is called SEGREGATION. A good formulator of fertilizer knows about segregation and tests their product before selling it to you and me. Today I use a lot of HOMOGENEOUS fertilizer because all particles are formulated from a mixture and then all N P K S Fe ect. is in each particle in equal parts...thus I have eliminated the segreation issue.

When you buy your fert product take a good look at particle sizing....Especially if the product is in a prilled form. If you bought a 30% S.C.U. product and the sulfur coated urea has a smaller particle size than the urea chances are you will have some stripes because turf will more likely be a darker shade of green where the sulfur and N are being applied vs. the N alone.
For me it's real simple......either I use 100% S.C.U. product or 0% S.C.U. product when I buy this type of fert. (no stripes):D

Perma Green recommends spreading back to the center of your previous wheel marks. With your model hopper you may have to do this if it's not a segregation issue.
Let me know your thoughts and I will surely help you figure out your problem.

Pete D.

DUSTYCEDAR
02-26-2004, 05:23 PM
i have not seen stripes in my unit the centri but i lube the cable so it works fine
i will look harder to see if this is a problem

Nitroman
02-26-2004, 06:35 PM
what are cec's?

make money money make money

heritage
02-26-2004, 06:52 PM
James and Dustycedar,
On the centri model the chute cable connects to an arm that pivots on one small bolt, this arm opens and closes the chute. There is play in that hole, and that will cause the opening to change as james has discribed. You can fix this as I have and It will make the opening of the chute consistant and accurate every time. Remove the small bolt from the pivot point of the arm that opens the discharge chute. Get a tap slightly larger than the largest hole where bolt has been removed and tap holes.
Screw in a new bolt that is the same size as the tap and tighten all the way down then back out 1/2 turn. Hold bolt in that position while installing a nylock nut tight. Now when you open and close the discharge chute there will be NO play at the pivot point and as long as cables are lubed and tight the chute opening will be consistantly accurate.:D

Pete D.

greenerpastures
02-26-2004, 10:03 PM
CEC ---- cation exchange capacity

in basic terms ---the nutrient exchange ability of a soil due mostly to electrical charges of soil molecules. Clays inherently have higher CEC values than sands.CEC values generally correlate with soil fertility.

DUSTYCEDAR
02-26-2004, 10:54 PM
heritage thanks 4 the tip i will give it a shot

heritage
02-26-2004, 11:25 PM
a correction on the rockland fertilizer I mentioned earlier....
It was callen Mill en chem II not twin win. Twin Win Was a great product.

Pete D.

tremor
02-27-2004, 12:17 AM
I saw this last summer with a material that included an oversized ammonium sulfate. The bulk density & size of the AS caused it to travel farther than the rest of the NPK. For lack of a better term I decided to call it "Ballistic Partical Segregation". The applicator hadn't seen this happen with his coventional push rotary spreader. Only the farther throwing PGreen. I would love to have done a collection on a Vicon but he ran out of the fert & wouldn't buy any more. No love lost here though.

4evergreenlawns
02-28-2004, 08:22 PM
I been running Lesco mostly 32-3-8, 19-2-7 pre-m and 24-5-11 fall/winter and have not seen any signs of stripping in the 150 lawns I have been treats for the past three years. I do overlap some but I cut back on the drop rate to keep things even.

Actually I have seen a more even applicaiton out of the perma green than what I was getting from the push spreader. The steady speed over ground and getting to know the spread width is key. I have seen overs strip with the Perma Green and when I have looked at the truf you can clearly see the tracking is too far apart. Only reason I see for that is trying to save time and money.

Reminds me of the guy I worked for before going on my own always saying "wider and faster" during fert apps. He now subs me for all of his lawn treatment and has told me the complaints about fert and come to a complete stop.