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weedmaster
03-11-2004, 04:12 PM
I am considering buying a permagreen. I don't want the extra weight, size or purchase price of the z-spray. In talking with my friends who have them they don't use them unless the area is over 10,000 ft at least. They liken it to painting a wall with a roller you still have to cut in the yard with a backpack or hose. What is your experience as far as weed control along edges of drives sidewalks etc using these machines. How much control do you have. I only have 1 very large account I could really use it for and many 4500 sq ft yards and am trying to justify the $5000 expense. If you are using them on small yards have you experienced this problem around the edges.

DUSTYCEDAR
03-11-2004, 04:52 PM
if u mainly due small yards u will still have to cut in so why bother just use a backpac i have mainly big yards 10k and up so i use it all the time

tennissippi
03-11-2004, 06:23 PM
I use the spray bottle that comes with the PG to do trim work around A/C units and shrubs. Works great for me. I also make sure that my spray pattern overlaps sidwalks about 6". Still...works great for me. Excellent control. Only two call backs in two years.

My personal recomendation...don't buy one if most of your lawns are 4,500 sq ft. I usually treat 1 to 30 acre properties so I have to have one. I use to spray most of my pre-emerge but I got sick of that B*LLSH*T quick. The PG tank just isn't large enough. Now I go to my local farm supply store and have everything custom blended on fertilizer.

TSM
03-13-2004, 05:55 PM
something to think about:
PermaGreen also sells a 12volt battery powered spray tank that you attach to you push spreader. Will cost you around $350. Comes with 2 12 volt batteries. One stays plugged into the ciggarett lighter in your truck so its fully charged .

We have several of them (ours are older and hold 3 gals., i believe the new ones hold 1 gal)

With these units you get the efficentcy of spreading granular fert while spraying liquid weed control. You'll have the same issues as far as along edges of flower beds etc. But its a lot less $$ than the ride-on.

Its the way I would go for 4500sf lawns

get rich
03-13-2004, 10:43 PM
I operate one (z-spray) on almost every lawn i do. They range from 3,000 sq. ft. to couple acre. No problem whats so ever with spraying right up to bed edges or sidewalks. Ain't killed anything but weeds with it. I just check my spray pattern on black top or gravel before spraying and then pay close attention. Works awsome for me. i feel more comfortable with mixing thirty gallons of spray per acre than the perm-a-burn, mixing what eight gallons and still supposed to cover almost an acre right?? sounds like a high risk water to chemical ratio.And i think it's big plus to have more horse power, mine has 18 horse kawi. Definetly get something ,cause time is money right? And less fatigue, means more production.:blob2: :angel:

Tscape
03-14-2004, 12:28 AM
I just bought a Z-spray. The drift control was one of the major selling points. Oh yeah, and it is a solid, well engineered piece of equipment. I don't think a perma-burn ( :laugh: ) stacks up for durability and ease of use. Can't wait to take delivery!

scottt
03-14-2004, 03:55 PM
As long as you mix at the correct rate there is no problem with the permagreen. If you can't read the label and don't know how to read numbers on your measuring cup, then you don't need to be doing this type of work. Having more horsepower does nothing but burn more gas and cost more money. I get by just fine with my 6.5hp motor. The one big advantage I see on the z-spray is the zero turn on small lawns. On larger areas I can't see any advantage until you move up to the larger z-spray which is made for a different type of property.

scottt
03-14-2004, 04:13 PM
I just checked the z-spray website and they come set from the factory to spray 3000 ft per gallon, the pg is set at 4000 per gallon. Looks like pg isn't the only one who thinks low volume works just fine. If you pay attention when you mix you'll be fine with either machine.

ANDY-W
03-14-2004, 04:32 PM
scott,
we have used both pg and z-sprays. our z-sprays use a 1/3 gallon per 1000. our pg used to use 1/8 to 1/4 per 1000. not shure what they use now. our z-spray at least has agitation and we have sprayed upto 1 1/2 gallon per 1000 with wetables. Hey turfscape, you will not be dissapointed.

get rich
03-14-2004, 10:20 PM
I do use the larger unit for my small lawns also. It has a three section boom. I just bring in the left and right boom and spray with just the middle section. It has a great set up for spraying small or large areas. Like i said my properties range from 3,000 s.q. f.t. and up. In and out. But i do know plenty who use perma's. And they all rave about em'. I know they work great for them too. Just pokin fun..... But i prefer more horse power, thats o.k. if it's more gas. That more horses has gotten me out trouble once or twice.( dog don't only chase mailmen) And thats my "paul harvey...good day" sales pitch. For those who know paul harvey

scottt
03-14-2004, 11:53 PM
get rich,
Do you have any small gates to deal with, I thought the larger z-spray was wider than the jr? How do you spray post while fertilizing the small lawns? It seems like raising the booms would make you skip areas between passes. Even with limited use of my new pg I can already see possibly buying a z-spray next just for the zero turn on small lawns. I know what you mean about the dogs. I've given about 100 estimates in the last 7 days and have come face to face with too many pit bulls and rottweillers(sp?). My least favorite part of the job.

turfsolutions
03-15-2004, 09:04 PM
Turf scape - What is the drift control on the z spray?

tennissippi
03-15-2004, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by get rich
..... i feel more comfortable with mixing thirty gallons of spray per acre than the perm-a-burn, mixing what eight gallons and still supposed to cover almost an acre right?? sounds like a high risk water to chemical ratio.

You obviously have never operated a PG, so how would you know whats high risk?

Tscape
03-15-2004, 10:43 PM
Drift control on the Z-spray are the AI tips. They have a larger droplet offering better drift control.

get rich
03-15-2004, 10:48 PM
scott, when you say perma's get 3000 sq ft per gallon and z-spray gets 4000 per gallon keep in mind perma only has eight gallons of mixed spray on board. Z-spray gets 4000 per gallon but carries thirty gallons on board. Thats not exactly low volume. But yes low volume sprayers work great too,but not much room for error in mixing. Or keeping a constant speed. I relly don't have many places with gates, but if i do and the zero turn don't squeeze through....i have to resort to the old fasion ways and drag the hose and push the spreader.damn gates.There is a three valve system on the z that i can shut the left valve closed and the right valve closed and spray with the middle section of the boom, after lowering the pressure of course, because of the pressure build up from closing the left and right valves off. The low drift tee-jet tips and short spacing between them, and keeping them low to the ground allows you to work at lower pressure than some units.Thats the drift control i believe. But when there is a stiff breeze the only thing not drifting is my lesco shower head nozzle on the hose. The zero turn is awsome, i can stop on a dime and turn around and go back the other way. Spraying is a cake walk.I just wish i could blow off the drive ways and sidewalks with it.

get rich
03-15-2004, 10:54 PM
I have tried a perma before i got the z unit. The big sell is thirty gallon, compared to eight....human nature to be cautious. But like i said i know many in town have em and there properties look great too. May have taken longer to get used to it though, or worked out the bugs so to speak. The less room for error one that is.

tennissippi
03-15-2004, 11:43 PM
Originally posted by get rich
I have tried a perma before i got the z unit. The big sell is thirty gallon, compared to eight....human nature to be cautious. But like i said i know many in town have em and there properties look great too. May have taken longer to get used to it though, or worked out the bugs so to speak. The less room for error one that is.

I'm not talking about a test drive the parking lot...have you actually used one...any experience with one? How can there be any errors with the PG? It has to be the easy machine to operate. Aren't you still putting out the same amount of chemical per 1000 as the z-spray.

Tscape
03-16-2004, 04:45 PM
when you say perma's get 3000 sq ft per gallon and z-spray gets 4000 per gallon keep in mind perma only has eight gallons of mixed spray on board. Z-spray gets 4000 per gallon but carries thirty gallons on board. Thats not exactly low volume.

Low volume means the amount of water mixed as a spray medium, not the amount of gallons on board.

I think there is a more significant difference in the rates between the Permagreen and Z-spray than has been mentioned here, but I don't have the specifics in front of me. Off the Z's website: "Factory set 1/3 gallon per 1000 sq. ft. Rate can be easily varied by changing quick release tip. Coverage--120,000 sq. ft." so 40 gallons covers 2.75 acres.

So the question is: how many square feet does the PG's 8 gallon tank cover. If it is 1 acre, we are talking about a mix that is 2X more potent. Am I right here?

DUSTYCEDAR
03-16-2004, 05:04 PM
i have my PG unit spraying 36 oz per 1000 sq ft so i can not go as far on a 8 gal tank as a z-spray that carrys 30 gal but i rarely spray the whole lawn so i can get 2 or 3 lawns out of 8 gal

2 man crew
03-16-2004, 05:08 PM
If I remember the PG covers 34,000 sq ft.

Tscape
03-16-2004, 05:53 PM
Z spray carries 40 gallons. The junior carries 20.

scottt
03-16-2004, 11:52 PM
Turfscape,
PG-4250, Z spray-3000. I was off by 250 ft earlier. If you don't think this is correct look at the website yourself. And yes I do have a PG so I know this is correct. The nozzles can be changed on both machines if needed.
Edited
After reading my response after posting, it reads like I am being a jerk. The post was not meant that way. That's one of the things I don't like about the internet. You can't here the tone in someone's voice.

get rich
03-17-2004, 09:47 PM
I hear ya scott, i hope i don't come off as a butt. Like i said before, i know maybe four or five perma operators in town. And they do a great job for them. So what ever trips your trigger ,right? If it does the job and is more productive than walking, i'd say its all good! But if i were going to recomend one, not knowing the other persons education and practices with mixing and spraying. And based on simplicity of the machine i'd say z-sprat everytime. And that aerator looks like it would sure kick out alot of plugs in a day. I have one of the older models, and i think i said it was thirty gallons didn't i ? It is a forty gallon, one twenty gallon tank on each side. Sorry, i'm trying not to think of giving up my winter break and going back to my daily grind. I say this machine is awsome because, the pump and valve system on this machine my three year old could figure out( not that i let him anywhere near my equipment, nope! ) That to me makes it very easy to show someone how to use it. I still would have to look into the mix rate and ground speed on some perma operators, but still think it's a hot mixture they spray. And Tennesse, i didn't even wanna take it to the point of operating one, i looked it up and down, read up on it, checked around for oppinions, and made my choice. I chose the machine that looked to me like it would run forever and be simple to operate and maintain, considering we also run eight x-mark walk behinds ( with the same engine ) and three x-mark riders on a daily basis ( riders not with the same engine, liquid cooled ) I didn't like the sulkie thing with the perma, and seemed like if you got on an incline ir could possibly tip over, nightmare waiting to happen. MY DADDY ONCE TOLD ME " BOY IF IT WERENT FER BAD LUCK...YOU'D HAVE NONE !!" And he was exactly right, so i'm cautious.

4evergreenlawns
03-20-2004, 10:02 AM
Well I can only offer what I have PERSONALLY experienced using the Perma-Green I have owned for three years now.

My Perma green has done nothing but made me money. I have NEVER burnt or striped a lawn. I have never killed any plants or bushes. As far as a hot mix, let me think about that... Will I add the chemicals, I read the lable, I ask questions at Lesco before hand, and guess what..if the lawn gets burnt I am the one to be blamed not the PERMA-GREEN. My Perma-green has never been a perma-burn. I have seen a few burnt lawn from guys using tank spray units.

As for gates and small yards. The perma-green goes through most all standard 36" gates no problem. I have treated small to larger job no problem.

As for hills it is no different than using a WB and with the drop down handle sometimes I just walk behind it if the hill is wet or steep.

The only thing I have ever used my Back Pack for is spot treatment. I edge just fine with the Perma Green.

The ground speed on the perma-green is steady and once you get the drop rate adjusted you can go all day with a steady uniform release of both liquid and granular. I do not see the happening with the Z-turns. There is a tendency to speed up and slow down on a z-turn seems like that would effect spray and release rates more likely to burn in the turns.

Over the past several I have been treating pretty much the same 150 residential account per treatment. Ever since I started using the Perma-Green with Liquid weed control and granular for every thing else I have not had ONE call back. Combine that with the nearly 60% reduction in labor doing the same work with a walk behind and revisits as well as reduced cost in products the Prema-Green has made my bank account Perma-large.

Bottom line after reading this thread it is again proven that you can talk yourself into of out of whatever you make you mind up on. Asking questions and opinoins only work if you are will to truly list all the pro/cons and than apply them you your business situation. Good luck.

TMlawncare
03-20-2004, 05:02 PM
The perma greens carry only 8 gallons but can cover 30k+. Do you have to mix the chemicals at a different rate due to its low volume. Our does the speed of the machine make up the difference. We to have been looking into one of these.

turfsolutions
03-20-2004, 08:22 PM
Tried the PM before I bought the z spray.

2 words:

ZERO TURN

z spray all the way for me.

4evergreenlawns
03-21-2004, 09:50 AM
Trying one in a parking lot and actually running one is two very diffferent things. If I remember correctly you can NOT demo a perma green (meaning actually put product down on lawns for a day) by law the dealer can not resale any product dealing with chemicals. So I am not sure how some many people say they "Tried" a PG or Z-spray and did not like it. I have never used a Z-spray but I have operated Z-turn mowers.

Most people that run zero turn mowers lean toward the Z spray. In my case after running the Perma-Green when it came time for lawn cuts I went to Great Dane 52" Super Surfers instead of zero turn mowers. I had worked a season on a 61" zero turn and did not like it at all. Unless you like sitting on you ass all day yeilding 30% less productivity.

I am happy with the results of the Perma-Green and equally as happy with the results of the standing ride on mowers from GD. Still leave the key factor being it all depends on what the demands of the business are should be used in the driving factor for the equipment you buy. I will say that as my commercial account list grows I and I treat less residential accounts I am leaning toward a Z-spray myself.

Tscape
03-21-2004, 09:57 AM
Tom demo's Z-spray's all the time. He must have a demo unit. I don't see why he couldn't sell a demo if he wanted. Which law are you reffering to?

turfsolutions
03-21-2004, 04:08 PM
I demo'd the permagreen and it was way better than pushing a spreader all day. However it kicked my but a little bit when it came to steering on inclines. I went with the z spray because of the maneuvarability. The bigger spray tank and collapsable boom along with the fert trays were the icing on the cake.

meets1
03-22-2004, 09:41 PM
I am looking at the perma green. Exactly how are the chemicals mixed? Is the rate different due to spary pattern and spead?