sodium , calcium or potassium

[mountain]

what does everybody use ? is one any better them the other I have been using potassium cloride from the few customers that require ice melt just because that is the only product that our supplier carries.

[Lazer]

Sodium Chloride is Rock Salt, right?

That's what we use on ALL our parking lots and 75% of our sidewalks. A few walkways we use calcium chloride.

The potassium and calcium chloride are less corrosive, work at lower temperatures and don't leave "salt" stains. But they're more $.

[plowking35]

We used to use calcium, but customers didnt like the greasy residue left behind, so we now use a coated salt that works much like calicium and down to the lower temps, yet is 100% enviro friendly.
Dino

[SlimJim Z71]

What is this "Magic Salt" that everyone keeps talking about? I've heard people talking about coated salt, and also stuff that you can buy to coat the salt yourself. Can someone fill me in?

[diggerman]

Please do a search, if I have to listen to Dino's magic speel one more time I'm going to going to commit hairy carry.Wait let me do it, Magic is the only ice melting product that is safe for grass,bushes,shrubs, concrete, wood, paint,plastic,steel ,aluminum,paper,it can even be served as punch at parties.It will melt ice at tempatures only found on pluto,and has the potential to melt four feet of snow.You can buy it alot of places all of which Dino can give you directions to,it could be the most amazing product known to man it might even cure cancer,testings just not done yet.

[SlimJim Z71]

I'm just guessing... but I think I hit a nerve.

[Alan]

Hey Digger, lighten up will ya! The Class Clown act is starting to wear a little thin.

[mountain]

do you use rock salt on the lots because its cheaper or does it do a better job? I signed a couple parking lots for this winter and didn't want to stock two different products . would I get a good result spreading the potassium , that we already stock for our walks , on the lots?

[slingshot]

Yes digger you sound like a little baby. if you dont like what dino post just dont read it. but to tell you the truth i think dino's post are the best ones to read . you cant say he doesnt know the snow and ice biz. he runs his biz like a pro the way it should be. and i bet there is not to many questions he could not answer if you asked him. plus he is a hell of a nice guy. he would go far out of his way to help anyone he could if you asked him. i have never met him and only talked on the phone a couple of times but he sure helped me out and steered me in the right direction. i e mailed him over the summer to ask him a question and befor i knew it he was calling long distance to my home and did not stop calling till he got a hold of me . he answered all my questions and and gave me alot of good advice. so digger if you are trying to get everyone against dino i dont think it will work being he probarbly helped everyone on this forum at one time or another, thanks dino remember mark from scranton........

[n y snow pros]

To answer your question Slimjim,which Diggerman did a fair job of answering.The product Magic is a combination of mag chloride and distilled solids from beer or vodka to put it simply.When this liquid is sprayed on salt it makes the salt about 95%less corrosive and brings the effective working temperature of salt down to about 35o below zero.Salt usually will only work to about 18o and then anything colder and its useless.Some of the side benifits of this product are that it eats rust and is activated by ground temperature not air temp like other ice meltors.The difference being that products like calcium need to pull moisture out of the atmosphere to create heat which in turn creates the melting action.The bad part is 2 fold.1st the surface calcium is being used on lets say concrete,is forced to go through repeated freeze thaw cycles do to the heat the calcium creates which will spauld and crack concrete.2nd the 1/2 used bag of ice melter has now turned hard as a rock because it has been exposed to the air where it is sucking up moisture.Magic doesnt have this problem because it is activated by ground temperture and humidity.The rise and fall of these 2 will cause Magic to react.Magic also has the benifit of a residual effect so that after a storm the remaining product will go into the pavement and react later in the season for the next storm.This in turn will give you more time before your sanders will have to go out to treat the road surface.Magic is safe to your landscaping,steel,pavement,concrete and asphalt and will not leave any visable signs after a storm like the white coating salt leaves.If you have any more questions please feel free to call me if you like.
John Parker 845-485-4200

[thelawnguy]

I use sand/salt mix on my lots, $30/ton fob. For sidewalks I use a mix of potassium, calcium, sodium, sand. Lesco sells one formula but I get the generic for $7/50lb bag.

[GeoffDiamond]

Ok, in life I try to act as the middle man, who is friends with everyone. So my response here is pretty much how I would react in person.

Digger I don't know what is wrong with Dino talking about Magic salt, or any other product, ie Urethane cutting edges. Only so what, he speeks the truth on the these products, and they have helped some members on this board.

Yes, I will admit that sometimes, I thought they were over discussed on and pushed on some users. However, I believe these products are proven and really do produce the results that have been posted. In the end when I thought about it, I said so what if Dino makes a few bucks on the sale of magic salt and cutting edges.

I think Dino, provides a lot of detailed post, providing information to many. I have never talked to him face to face or even over the phone, however he seams like the next door neighbor I wouldn't mind having (the only problem would be those evil GM trucks). However my nearest next door neighbor is 3 miles down the road.

So basicly myself, I am old fashion. Still useing my sand and salt mix, as well as some pure salt, Just giving my customers what they want. I still run my noisy steel cutting edges. Only so what, it works for me, and like I have said to everyone time and time again, if it works run with it.

So In Dino's Defence speak as much as ya want about Magic Salt and Edges.

Digger, sorry to have to say this to a fellow Cat exevator owner, but cut Dino some slack.

In the end we all have the same common goal, move the white stuff, and see how cool of a light show we can put on at night.

Geoff

[Edited by GeoffDiamond on 11-19-2000 at 03:29 AM]

[n y snow pros]

I couldnt of said it better Geoff

[thelawnguy]

"I said so what if Dino makes a few bucks on the sale of magic salt and cutting edges."

He's not making that much, I was quoted prices 50 per cent higher for a urethane edge from a truck equipment dealer close to me, and without any kind of guarantee.

[diggerman]

Boy everybody need to cut back on their caffinated coffee,Dino has been getting off way to easy lately,he hasn't had to delete one of my posts.Just having a little fun at Dino's expense,and I have never known Dino to need baby sitters so give it a rest.The site has a search function for a reason,it would be diff if it was a topic that was rarely talked about but I think there are more posts about magic than anything else.Dino I am sorry if this post offended you,now call off your dogs.Everyone else loosen your ties put up your feet and relax.

[John DiMartino]

We'll loosen our cuffs when you lighten up on Dino,Ive got my sleaves rolled up and Im ready to rumble LOL.

[Chuck Smith]

Temp.(°F) 1 LB. of Salt Melts

30° 46 lbs. of ice

25° 14 1/2 lbs. of ice

20° 8 1/2 lbs. of ice

15° 6 1/2 lbs. of ice

10° 5 lbs. of ice

5° 4 lbs. of ice

0° 3 1/2 lbs. of ice

-6° 3 lbs. of ice

You can clearly see how useless plain salt (Sodium Chloride or NaCl²) becomes as the temperature drops.

~Chuck



[Edited by ChucksChevyPages on 11-19-2000 at 06:16 AM]

[Chuck Smith]

Since this is a deicer thread...

SOME of you may be sick of hearing about Magic. Here's a tidbit the <B>rest</B> of you may be interested in reading.

“Parkway officials announced yesterday that the marvelous goo, which goes by the brand name Magic Minus Zero, will be their main weapon against highway icing this year.
The New Jersey Highway Authority, which runs the Parkway, has agreed to buy $1.36 million worth of the stuff, which can be used in several ways. The authority's existing stockpile of 11,566 tons of rock salt will be run through a giant conveyer- driven machine that will mix it with the substance, not unlike coating popcorn with caramel. In addition, the state is buying 25,000 tons of salt already treated with the product, and Parkway officials also plan to try spraying the substance in its liquid form on the roadway to prevent freezing.”

October 27, 2000 The Star Ledger (Newark, NJ)


Looks like NJ will be joining it's NY neighbors using Magic, as well as Washington State.

Here's some others who use Magic.

NEW YORK STATE DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
NEW YORK STATE D.O.T. – POUGHKEEPSIE, N.Y.
DUTCHESS COUNTY DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
PUTNAM COUNTY DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
NEW YORK CITY DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
NEW YORK STATE THRUWAY AUTHORITY RT 1-87 & RT 1-84
NEW JERSEY DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION

I would guess that Magic works well, or else these Depts. wouldn't be using it, now would they?

As far as discussing Magic, or Urethane, they are no different than any other product. We talk about Boss plows all the time too.... because they are good. The same goes for Magic and Urethane. We talk about Meyer plows all the time too, because to many here, they are lousy plows. We bring up the same subjects a lot is all I am saying. That's what discussion forums are for, discussing....

~Chuck

[jrblawncare]

My 2 cents...Dino seems like a great guy,He has been a great help to me here and on the phone.also I think dig was just bust'em a little.I would love to give Magic a try,But can't get it near Me and I'am not to the point where I need a truck load yet.So...this year I will be using a potassium chloide base product called Ice Melt/Traction & will try Maxey melt{of course I will not need it as much as the rest of you guys north of me}.Do any of you know anything about Mountain Salt & Products Co.here in KY......They were a SIMA associate at one time.I have a chance to meet with them next week to see their products.Thanks

[plowking35]

FWIW dig, when you go on your little tirades, I just overlook them, you also have helped many people here, and you are a big GM fan, given diferent circumstances we might even be buds if we were neighbors. Of course then we would be each others competition and resort to grump old men (the movie) tactics to foil one anothers businesses.
The one thing that I have done as of late so you dont have to read about the edges and ice melt so much, is just to let new people know there are products out there other than the norm and to do a search or email me off forum for details. I to get tired of writting the same things, maybe control c &v are the answer after all. Thank you to all the rest that said the kind things. Now why havent you all bought magic, urethane v plows and GM trucks?
Dino

[John Allin]

I've been so busy plowing and salting, that I missed all the action on this thread.....

I gotta check in more.......

[SlimJim Z71]

Sorry guys... I didn't mean to start a kickin match here. I'm still a newbie to both this site, and the salting business. Thanks to everyone for all the information about "Magic", and just for the record, I was under the impression that Digger was just roasting him a little. I do have to agree though, all of the posts I've read from Dino were very forward and helpful. He makes the snow removal business sound more like a group effort, not like he's competing for every last flake of snow.

Digger... I apologise. I didn't know there was a search function. Dino... keep up the good work.

<img src=http://smilecwm.tripod.com/net7/beerchug.gif>

[GeoffDiamond]

Those darn GM Owners

[Edited by GeoffDiamond on 11-19-2000 at 07:00 PM]

[diggerman]

Thank you SlimJim I was just roasting Dino I figure Dino's used to me by now and was not looking to piss him off that would have been to easy,just haven a little fun.By the way welcome,as a fellow sweeper it's good to have you here. Just ignore me most of the time I'm sort of the black sheep here and I like it that way.They say there is a fine line between the cops and the crooks.Being the cop I just look out for the well being of those looking to run a reality based operation.As for lightening up on Dino or any of the rest of you any more than I have, don't bet on it,what fun would that be.So John better get to rollin cause thats what I'm here for to keep you in line. Made you mad yet,hope so.

[plowking35]

Those of us in fantasy land are offended.BTW just so I can sleep at night, where did you get a magic -0 brochure?

Magic is the only ice melting product that is safe for grass,bushes,shrubs, concrete, wood, paint,plastic,steel ,aluminum,paper,it can even be served as punch at parties.It will melt ice at tempatures only found on pluto,and has the potential to melt four feet of snow.You can buy it alot of places all of which Dino can give you directions to,it could be the most amazing product known to man it might even cure cancer,testings just not done yet.
That all sounds like a direct quote from it, did you have written permission to reproduce, copy and distribute that info?
Boy this thread really has my trigger(edit button) finger itchy.
Dino

[diggerman]

Now ,Now Dino take deep breaths,just because you have a fan club doen't mean I shouldn't remain objective.I have said nothing that is offensive just opinionated.

I was thnking the other day how many other products will you be testing Magic against this year? Two three four,my guess is you plan to look at none,Magic is the best thing to come along lately but why not continue to try to find better things.I had a guy tell me about a product that has a lower melting temp,no color to track in and no hog lot smell,Ill get you the name so you can try it.

[BRL]

Hey Digger, I haven't joined Dino's fan club so I'll join yours instead so you're not too lonely. Of course you'll have to buy my airline tickets to come out there for the annual meetings. Keep having fun while posting, & keep sharing good info. I know Dino doesn't take offense to your comments (well,I'm pretty sure & I would bet on it) & he doesn't need a fan club. ;) Also, <I had a guy tell me about a product that has a lower melting temp,no color to track in and no hog lot smell,Ill get you the name so you can try it.> that stuff is probably one of the Magic spinoffs that have been coming out. I've heard of a few products making the same claims as Magic since its starting to get such good press. I'll bet its a Magic conspiracy and the guy you were talking about is actually trying to get you to try Magic that he put in a different bag ;) Be careful, they're everywhere!

jrblawncare,
Mountain Products that you mentioned sells Magic salt, so you will be able to get it there. That company holds the patent on Ice Beeter which is a product that either is Magic, or is very similar to Magic.

[jrblawncare]

Thanks BRL,I may hear what they have to say,the price was right.Now...... has everyone Kissed and made up!!!

[John Allin]

If you guys kiss, I think I'm gonna be sick.......

[Edited by John Allin on 11-19-2000 at 11:35 PM]

[diggerman]

Thanks BRL but I most certainly would hate a fan club, but its nice to at least see some intellegent understanding.You are also very correct about the product being ice beater,you must have ESP,hopefuly I mentioned at some earlier time.

[BRL]

Digger,
No ESP, got it from their web site ;)

http://www.mtnproducts.com/icebeeter.asp

I've heard Magic called M-50 before so I'm assuming the Ice Beeter is Magic, until otherwise corrected. I'm sure one of our Magic experts will jump in here and inform us as soon as they are done with their latest rug session. Speaking of prayer rugs, where's Storm? Everything OK with him, or is he away?

[n y snow pros]

Ok my turn,the product icebeeter is a spin off of Magic and yes Mountain holds the patent to the name but not the process which is held by Sears oil.Icebeeter works i am sure although how well i dont know.Icebeeter will either dissapear after the court battles are over between IceBan and Sears or it will live under the permission of Sears oil.But atleast for the next 2 years it should be easily available and any of you who can use it should and see what type of results you get.I for 1 would be interested.It's the process that is so important and this is where Magic holds the key as they hold all patents and are presently not enforcing them,but they will in time.

[diggerman]

I haven't talked to storm in a week,but the last time I saw him he was getting ready for battle,but it didn't snow.But he showed me his really nice set up,nothing he can't do with what he's got.

[diggerman]

BRL I haven't talked to Storm in a week,but the last time I saw him he was getting ready for battle,but it didn't snow.But he showed me his really nice set up,nothing he can't do with what he's got.

[iowastorm]

Where in the heck have I been all day?? Man, have I missed all of the fun!!!!!!!!! Any more hot air out of your guys and we're going to get rain and no snow. Digger, nice double post; I was already seeing double before I saw (sawr on the East Coast) those.

I'm not going to comment on anything here until I go back and re-read everything again. I see Digs is making new friends again.

[diggerman]

Sorry about the double post it just seemed important.

[n y snow pros]

Diggerman your ok in my book although its a very short book

[iowastorm]

Didn't know any of you guys could read. I'm impressed.

[John Allin]

I MUST need sleep.
You're all making sense to me.

[Guido]

We use liquid and dry forms of Clearway de-icing materials made by BP Chemicals. Thats for the Airfield. On the roads we use a sand, rocksalt mix.

[cutntrim]

We've used rock salt exclusively since we bought our salters. They don't spread sand anyway, and generally it doesn't get cold enough here for the salt to be rendered ineffective. When I was at university up in Sudbury though, they used sand...big time.