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bobbygedd
03-23-2004, 08:22 PM
i think i know the answer, lets see if anyone else does. if a 50 lb bag of fertilizer , rated to treat 12,500 sq ft of turf, has the numbers 20-10-10 on it, how many lbs of nitrogen per k is being applied?

Envi-Lawn
03-23-2004, 08:34 PM
20%N/2=10lbs
Agr.101

bobbygedd
03-23-2004, 08:37 PM
how many lbs per k?

lars
03-23-2004, 08:50 PM
50/12.5 = 4 lbs fert / 1000

4 x .2 = .8 lbs N / 1000

trimmer
03-23-2004, 08:55 PM
50x.20=10lbs of nitrogen in bag

10/12.5=.8lbs per/k

Envi-Lawn
03-23-2004, 08:56 PM
if my math is right- its .8lbsN/k

Envi-Lawn
03-23-2004, 08:59 PM
It all depends on the person behind the spreader.
Just kidding!

GreenMonster
03-23-2004, 09:07 PM
50*20%=10lbs
10/12.5=.8lbsN per 1k

Interesting how lars got there. I didn't think of it that way.

I believe both are right though?

DUSTYCEDAR
03-23-2004, 09:15 PM
very interesting

bobbygedd
03-23-2004, 09:40 PM
very good, you guys surprised me

jeff_0
03-24-2004, 01:13 AM
how did you figure out the nitrogen. i forgot

Fvstringpicker
03-24-2004, 12:47 PM
Actually, both of Envi-Lawn's post are correct

bobbygedd
03-24-2004, 03:07 PM
ok jeff, it's like this: the first number of the three is the nitrogen content in the entire bag. now, we know that 20% of the bags content is nitrogen. the application rate of this particular product is 4 lbs per thousand sq. ft, we know that cus 50 lbs treats 12,500 sq ft. so, 20% of the 4lbs, is how we determine how much nitro is going down, per 1000 sq. ft. got it?who needs ric anyhow

Ric
03-24-2004, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by bobbygedd
ok jeff, it's like this: the first number of the three is the nitrogen content in the entire bag. now, we know that 20% of the bags content is nitrogen. the application rate of this particular product is 4 lbs per thousand sq. ft, we know that cus 50 lbs treats 12,500 sq ft. so, 20% of the 4lbs, is how we determine how much nitro is going down, per 1000 sq. ft. got it?who needs ric anyhow

OK Genius

How many Pounds of actual P are you applying to the same area at the .8 lb of N rate.

Please no one answer this question but Mr Rocket Science. Oh and please no one send him the answer.

TSM
03-24-2004, 04:24 PM
heh heh heh, yes I do know the answer.

i ussually dont make these types of comments, but here goes,

anybody not know the answer...get out of the business!

Its ok to come in here and spell badly or to use improper english (i stand guilty of both) BUT, you'd better know this stuff or learn it real quick before you leave someone an invoice for your service. Or apply for work at your local 7-11

bobbygedd
03-24-2004, 04:56 PM
.4, i believe. and if i'm wrong, i'm sure you will tell as many people as possible. glad to see you back ric

bobbygedd
03-24-2004, 06:17 PM
well? am i right or wrong?

lars
03-24-2004, 07:16 PM
Originally posted by Ric
OK Genius

How many Pounds of actual P are you applying to the same area at the .8 lb of N rate.


.8 lbs N, .4 lbs P2O5
.4 x .43 = .172 lbs P / 1000

lets do K while we're at it

.8 lbs N, .4 lbs K20
.4 x .83 = .332 lbs K / 1000

Now who needs a chemistry lesson?

bobbygedd
03-24-2004, 07:20 PM
so i was right?

lars
03-24-2004, 07:51 PM
You're actually applying .172 lbs elemental P and .332 lbs elemental K.

bobbygedd
03-24-2004, 07:58 PM
well ric, what do you have to say for yourself?

kickin sum grass
03-24-2004, 08:40 PM
there is a simple formula to use to find any number as far as applying fert. (Rate x area in 1000's / % = lbs to use)
For this we need to find rate.
Basic algerbra here what you do to one side you do to the other. the object is to get the rate by itself. so we start by x the % to both side so 50 x .2 =10. then you need to divide both by area so 10 / 12.5 = .8 so the answer is rate = .8http://

kickin sum grass
03-24-2004, 08:45 PM
here it is on paper hope it helps

or maybe not. cant seem to get it to let me post a pic.
pm me and I can email hoe the formula works if anyone is interested.

kickin sum grass
03-24-2004, 08:56 PM
trying again to post pic

timturf
03-24-2004, 09:13 PM
Well bobbygedd,

Lars pointed out that you where wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!1

bobbygedd
03-24-2004, 09:33 PM
how was i wrong. the answer is .8 on the lbs of nitrogen per thousand sq. ft

Ric
03-24-2004, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by TSM
heh heh heh, yes I do know the answer.

i ussually dont make these types of comments, but here goes,

anybody not know the answer...get out of the business!

Its ok to come in here and spell badly or to use improper english (i stand guilty of both) BUT, you'd better know this stuff or learn it real quick before you leave someone an invoice for your service. Or apply for work at your local 7-11

Originally posted by timturf
Well bobbygedd,

Lars pointed out that you where wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!1

bobbygedd
03-24-2004, 09:43 PM
so then, the answer is 1/3 of a lb of nitrogen per 1000 sq ft? don't know how u come up with that. at that rate, you would need 15 apps a year

bobbygedd
03-24-2004, 09:47 PM
very funny ric, bet you couldn't wait to try and make me look silly. ok, maybe i'm wrong, but i'm still getting tripple what your getting for your apps. ok, i got a quiz for you ric: i have two hands, one is my left, the other is my right. in one hand i'm holding a cookie, in the other, a shovel, which hand has the shovel?

lars
03-24-2004, 09:50 PM
To clear this up, you are wrong on the P and K part. It's sort of a trick question.

bobbygedd
03-24-2004, 09:56 PM
lars, would you be so kind to explain? i just don't get it. i need 4-6 lbs of nitrogen per season. if your suggestion that the above formulation only delivers 1/3 of a pound, i need alot of apps to get my 4-6 lbs. even at a different formulation say 30-10-10 , i'd still need to put down 10 applications. so you are certain, that the 20-10-10 formulation does NOT deliver .8 of a lb?

lars
03-24-2004, 10:05 PM
Bobby, you're not seeing the forest through all the trees. You are 100% correct in that you are putting down .8 lbs N / 1000. Ric asked how much actual (elemental) P and K you are putting down, wich is .172 and .332 lbs / 1000 respectively. That's the tricky one.

Ric
03-24-2004, 10:56 PM
Originally posted by bobbygedd
very funny ric, bet you couldn't wait to try and make me look silly. ok, maybe i'm wrong, but i'm still getting tripple what your getting for your apps. ok, i got a quiz for you ric: i have two hands, one is my left, the other is my right. in one hand i'm holding a cookie, in the other, a shovel, which hand has the shovel?


No Bobby I didn't have too wait. You make yourself look silly everytime you post.

If "One" is you left hand and "One" is your cookie hand. Then The other hand is your Right hand and your shovel hand.

Originally posted by TSM
anybody not know the answer...get out of the business!
you'd better know this stuff or learn it real quick before you leave someone an invoice for your service. Or apply for work at your local 7-11

I hope 7-11 pay 3 time as much also. However I am not so sure you get 3 times as much for your application as we do in Florida. In fact I would bet money you get less.

bobbygedd
03-25-2004, 07:22 AM
you would lose that bet ric. i been to florida sir, and aside from the imports, the people there didn't seem bright to say the least. anyhow i was right about the .8. as far as all the other numbers you came up with, well, i still don't understand, and fact is, i don't need to understand, it's not neccesary to be a chemist , you see, the manufacturer of the product has a chemist who has done all the calculations for me, i read the bag, and do my job. there is such a thing as being overknowledgabe, i think. at some point the eccess knowledge becomes useless. it's kind of like being 7.5 feet tall, but not being good enough to make the basketball team. LARS i thank you for your input, i doubt that ric or tim could come up with the answer you gave. ric, did they run out of things to do at the old folks home or something? glad you came back though, when you ran away like that, it reminded me of that little kid i yelled at, he went running home crying to his mommy.

Ric
03-25-2004, 08:43 AM
Originally posted by boobygedd
you would lose that bet ric.


Booby

No sir, you would lose, Prices start $ 10.00 per thousand per round. Now ask yourself.Why would someone who has taken the time to go back to college in their 60's want to put up with your ****. By your own admission you rode the short bus. Maybe you didn't directly say "I rode the Short Bus". But you certainly implied that you lack the brain power to even get a GED. From your lack of understanding, I would have to agree with you about not being the brightest bulb.

Water seeks its own level. Booby, you and I are not on the same level. Now I have no desire to drop to your level. You apparently don't have the desire or ability to come up to my level. So I will let you play in the sand box with your 2,000 empty posts. And I will try and spend my time more wisely.

Now it is your turn to scream and Holler. However do not look for a reply.

bobbygedd
03-25-2004, 09:11 AM
it seems to me ric, with all that education, you are too smart to be a lawnboy, but too dumb to do anything else. kinda stuck in the middle. my programs start at $12 per k, per app, not PER ROUND. this means a weed n feed app, is $24 per k. WHAT I LEARNED FROM MY TRIP TO FLORIDA: 1)the bass fishing was great. 2)dog racing is for retarted people. 3) the $900 i paid for the 3 night hotel stay wasn't worth it. 4) they are overun with illegal immigrants. 5) the food sucked. 6) the women were easy. 7) the overall population was one step above hillbilly status. 8) if it weren't for revenue from tourists, and people retiring from new jersey moving there, you'd all be living in grass huts, eating aligator eggs. p.s., i got a g.e.d u fool, the testing time was 6 hrs, i finished in 3:45. it's a general education diploma, you know, the same one you spent 4 years in high school to earn. it took you 4 yrs, it took me 3 hours and 45 min. smell the coffee ric.

James Cormier
03-25-2004, 09:22 AM
Stop it now....

longslawn
03-25-2004, 10:30 AM
The question was how many pounds of n, p, k would be applied with a 50 # bag of 20-10-10 per 1000ft2.
Now, the last reply spoke of elemental product. My question is what is the difference between product and elemental product?
If you say 20% of 50# is 10# N, then why wouldn't 10% of P and K be 5# ? Are you using elemental weights ? What is your basis for this answer? Please enlighten me.

longslawn
03-25-2004, 10:38 AM
Ever heard of KISS ? Keep it simple stupid !

GreenMonster
03-25-2004, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by longslawn
The question was how many pounds of n, p, k would be applied with a 50 # bag of 20-10-10 per 1000ft2.
Now, the last reply spoke of elemental product. My question is what is the difference between product and elemental product?
If you say 20% of 50# is 10# N, then why wouldn't 10% of P and K be 5# ? Are you using elemental weights ? What is your basis for this answer? Please enlighten me.

Yeah, enlighten me too. I don't get it, but would like to know.

longslawn
03-25-2004, 12:22 PM
I just had a friend of mine ( a horticulture teacher and another chemistry teacher) agree that .8, .4, .4 was correct. If you look at a fertilizer bag, you will find that the fertilizer manufacturer states that the percentages are actual product analysis not compound (P2O5 or K2O) analysis. If you put out the amount of N, P, K as stated on the bag, then you will get .8 N, .4P, .4K actual product per 1 K. If you don't believe me, call the fertizer manufacturer.

AA Arborist
03-25-2004, 01:01 PM
N is the only contituent that is reported as an elemental weight. The other two are repoted at as oxides. This requires the user to interpret fertilizer recommendations and nutrient content of fertilizer material carefully. As a general rule application rates are almost always repoted in elemental forms, not oxides.

James Cormier
03-25-2004, 02:46 PM
And now...its official....the great NPK debate begins Yeh early in my lawn care days I knew how to figure this out....but you do forget certian things as the years go on.

I know Im starting my 19th Rd1 and one of the last things I care about right now is "elemental forms vs. oxides"

Am I going to have to dig out that old box of stuff I learned so many years ago to have a good season this year....no...

I do agree with TSM, we should know this stuff, But I do see bobbys point as well,

just my .02

bobbygedd
03-25-2004, 02:48 PM
yes longslawn, i also heard back from the d.e.p., i emailed them the question, they said the same thing. .8, .4, .4. thanks ric again, for nothing. by the way, i didn't ride the short bus, in fact i didn't ride any bus, they wouldn't let me smoke my morning joint on the bus, so i walked to school

lars
03-25-2004, 03:14 PM
Ok some of you are right, some are wrong, and some are both. First, we'll figure out how I got the answer.

P and K are in the form of oxides (P2O5 and K2O). When the oxides reach the soil they are broken down into simpler parts. P2O5 can become HPO4 or H2PO4 and K will become a K+ ion. I will not explain how this works or what the structure looks like as the post will become really long. P2O5 and K2O is what is actually listed on the fertilizer label. An analysis actually measures phosphate and potash, not actual P and K. Longslawn, your freind is wrong. When P and K is made, it comes out as phosphate and potash and that is the weight that determines fertilizer analysis. There was once a debate to make an anlysis read actual P and K, but then the numbers would be lower, and people would feel ripped off as it would seem the same fert would have a lower analysis.

So here's how to get the elemental weights of P and K. Get you periodic tables out.

Atomic weight of P = 30
Atomic weight of O = 16
(2x30) + (16x5) = 140
(2x30) / 140 = .43 = 43%
First I added up the molecular weight of P2O5 by adding the two P (2x30) and the O (16x5). Next I found the percentage P by diving the amount of P (2x30) by the molecular weight of (P2O5).

The same applies for K.
Atomic weight of K = 39
(39x2) + 16 = 94
(39x2) / 94 = .83 = 83%

So actual P and K are 43% and 83% of what is listed.

Don't get too concerned about this though. If you are using a soil test, and I hope everybody is cause that is the best way to see how much P and K you need, it should tell you how much P2O5 and K2O to apply. I have Penn State's right in front of me and it tells me P2O5 and K2O, so just go by what is on the fert bag. You don't have to do any extra math.

Essentially, all of this does not really mean anything. I just hope you all can walk away just a little more knowledgable about what a fertilizer label actually reads.

longslawn
03-25-2004, 03:42 PM
I'm replying on this site as a friend of longslawn. I do teach horticulture at the high school level and there's no way I'm going to get that technical with my students. I do remember this sort of subject when I was a student at NC State, but for all intensive purposes it's just to much to for the general public to digest. Thanks for the brain exercise, sometimes I get so involved in teaching the same things over and over- so it's fun to get to think for a change. Happy Gardening !

bobbygedd
03-27-2004, 08:30 PM
i think what the good teacher is trying to say, is that ric is a fountain of useless information

heritage
03-28-2004, 12:00 AM
The info on phos is not useless. If I get a soil test report that tells me the soil in question only has 100 Lbs of easily extracted phosphorous per acre, and I want to raise that # to 250 lbs per acre then over that season I would apply 350 lbs of Phos per acre divided into most or all of my apps for the season, which 43% (150 lbs) would be available to the plant. We can all learn from the old timers like ric.

Pete D.

Ric
03-28-2004, 02:24 AM
Originally posted by boobygelding
i think what the good teacher is trying to say, is that ric is a fountain of useless information

Maybe the teacher is trying to tell us there are Professional Lawn persons and Professional Turf Mangers. Each has their place in todays Green Industry. How these professionals approach the task at hand different. One spends money on Soil and water samples Then plans a program to reach a perfect soil condition. The other say if it works why change. Both methods work to achieve their respective expectations.

bobbygedd
03-28-2004, 08:34 AM
ahahahaha. YOU SAID you weren't gonna reply to this thread anymore. shame on you for lying. honstly ric, glad to see you here.

Ric
03-28-2004, 09:34 AM
Originally posted by boobygelding
my programs start at $12 per k, per app, not PER ROUND. this means a weed n feed app, is $24 per k.


$ 24.00 per thosand for weed and feed??? Yes and you never lye. But you have managed to bring me down to your level.

scweedman
03-28-2004, 09:47 AM
I thought we just set the spreader to the number on the
bag and just put out fert. Why make it so complicated.

bobbygedd
03-28-2004, 10:55 AM
welcome to my level ric, it aint so bad down here. yes sir, i said it, and i meant it, and i have signed documentation to prove, that my clients pay $12, per k, per application. since weed n feed contains a herbicide(one purpose) and fertilizer(another purpose) they pay double for this visit. 12 per k for the weed, and 12 per k for the feed. yes sir, i'm livin large at curb level

Ric
03-28-2004, 10:56 AM
scweedman

I guess you make a good point. However I am not sure if I want to Laugh or Cry. I guess this issue is like Religion and Politic. No matter how much we discuss it, Everyone will keep their own Opinion. I will refer you to my post about Professional Turf Managers, My second post up from this one.

Have a nice day and may you be healthy and wealthy.....

timturf
03-28-2004, 11:55 AM
SO Ric was right!

bobbygedd
03-28-2004, 12:21 PM
no tim , i was right. and.....ric wasn't wrong. the point is, when does there come a time when we over analyze? i don't believe the product we sell, requires that much thought, time, and money spent on education.a certain amount of knowledge and education are important, but, overdoing it is both a waste of time and money. example: in order to eat around other people, you need to learn(hopefully as a small child) how to use utensils, this is important. how to pick up food with a fork, and get it to your mouth without spilling it, knocking out your eye, or breaking a tooth. ok, a little practice, you got it. what YOU DON'T NEED TO KNOW, is where, when and why the fork was invented, who invented it, what earlier models looked like, the material it's made from, etc., this would be over analyzing, and a waste of time, money, and effort.

Ric
03-28-2004, 01:37 PM
Timturf

Now Booby is right about him being right and me not being wrong. It is unfortunate that the Industry has two levels of So called Professionals. The Yard Person and The Turf and Plant Manager. We have college degrees in plant science and booby has a GED which only took him 3 hours and so many minutes. You and I have more years in our education than he has hours in his. Booby also has more than 3 time the number of posts here as we do together. Therefore Booby is wiser and more knowledgeable than we could ever hope to be.

bobbygedd
03-28-2004, 04:29 PM
face it ric, you still work for the same money(actually, less) than me, and my 10th grade, ged education. if it pleased you on a personal level to achieve your level of education, then congradulations, you've climed to the top of the mountain, only to find, there is nothing there. but if the climb alone is what you were seeking, then, you are a success. let me just think about this for a minute.....you went thru 12 years of high school, plus furthered your education, only to do, what a dumb azz high school drop out does, but, you're doing it for less money. i'm not positive ric, but i'm pretty sure, that makes you a moron.

Ric
03-28-2004, 08:15 PM
Originally posted by boobygelding
face it ric, you still work for the same money(actually, less) than me, and my 10th grade, ged education. if it pleased you on a personal level to achieve your level of education, then congradulations, you've climed to the top of the mountain, only to find, there is nothing there. but if the climb alone is what you were seeking, then, you are a success. let me just think about this for a minute.....you went thru 12 years of high school, plus furthered your education, only to do, what a dumb azz high school drop out does, but, you're doing it for less money. i'm not positive ric, but i'm pretty sure, that makes you a moron.
ROFLMAO


originally posted by Ric
Booby has a GED which only took him 3 hours and so many minutes..... Therefore Booby is wiser and more knowledgeable than we could ever hope to be.
Yes you are the man. In fact I think that 10 grade drop outs are so intelligent we should elect you President and let you run the country. I can see your presidential picture now in fact I posted it below.

__________________
May you be be Healthy and Wealthy because you certainly aren't Wise.
Ric

bobbygedd
03-28-2004, 08:40 PM
nah, my arms are much bigger than that guys arms. anyhow, i don't want to be president, too much nonsense involved, i'm sure though, if i mangle a few more brain cells, i could be mayor of florida.

Ric
03-28-2004, 08:47 PM
Booby

Doesn't matter what you do for a living as long as your the best. Your are a pain in the backside and you are the best at what you do.

Now you have managed to bring me into the gutter. However I still have to look down to see you.

bobbygedd
03-28-2004, 09:22 PM
fine. as long as you're looking down at me, at least you're close . funny thing though, i think, in your own weird way, you are starting to like me. it aint so bad down here in the gutter, we have plenty to eat, lots of beer, plenty of fish to catch, and the money changes hands like a florida girl on friday night.

get rich
03-28-2004, 09:39 PM
Wow, a very enlightening coversation going on here. I too am a high school drop out and ged recipiant. Although i've trained under people who have aquired B.S. degrees' and consider myself as filling the bill of lawn tech very easily. I don't believe we all need to speed thousands of dollars with higher education, when we can just train for a couple years under you and learn all of your IMPORTANT knowledge. And save lots of money and time. The guy i trained under had degrees from university of wisconsin and he is a very smart cookie and he always told me life expirence was much more useful than learning from books and field trip to the arbertum. And i hope that didn't sound like a knock on higher education, because i didn't mean it to be. I tell every 18 year old, keep going with school, while it's still affordable. It's just once you've got started making money, it's hard to walk away to spend money, lose time from work, to further my education. The best i can do is keep up with seminars and trade shows. Although i'm looking at all of those posts of boobys and wondering, don't you work? LOL just kidding fellow flunky. And good day to all

Ric
03-28-2004, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by bobbygedd
funny thing though, i think, in your own weird way, you are starting to like me.
No way Booby your just to dumb to be insulted. However you win this round because your too ignorant to realize how stupid you really are.

Fvstringpicker
03-29-2004, 12:45 AM
This thing has gotten way out of hand. It went from lbs per 1000 sq ft to a chemistry lesson to verbal barbs. Ya'll making something that is macro into something that is micro and, in the final scheme of things, does really make that much difference due to the following. one, the fertilizer's analysis is based on a sample that falls within an acceptable statistical range and two, spreaders are not calibrated nor is the pattern stable enough to provide that level of accruacy. The analysis on the bag is sufficient enough to allow the concentration of product to be within probably three standard deviations of the stated analysis when applied according to instructions. The same concept applies to all other chemicals we use. There's simply too much variation in equipment and in applicators for very precise measurements. Remember guys, close only counts in horse shoes, hand garnades, and fertilizer applications.

Ric
03-29-2004, 06:12 AM
Originally posted by Fvstringpicker
This thing has gotten way out of hand.


Fvstrigpicker

Yes you are correct this has gotten way out of hand. Why this Thread was not closed a long time ago would have amazed me if I was not aware of Some factor behind the scene.

Now in some ways this thread is good. Some have cottage fever from the long winter while others have tons of stress to relief. Therefore some name calling helps to relief that tension. I sure have enjoyed the laugh even though I can't seem to insult the gentleman enough. He seem to take no offense to my posts and then insults himself. At least in my eyes.

However this thread might set a precedents for future threads. Therefore I understand your concern.

bobbygedd
03-29-2004, 08:21 AM
ric, me, insulted? considering the source, no, i'm not insulted at all. curious though, just where did you further your education, you do realize you spell at about the same level as a 6th grader? anyhow, the fact remains, you spent more time, more money, to make the same as the misfits in gator town, and less than a hippie kid from jersey, i don't know ric, need i say more? oh yea, and you're old enough to be my grandpa.i really have to speak to the activity coordinators there at the senior center, don't they keep you people busy? you been spending too much time on this computer lately, shouldn't you be at water arobics or something? now put in your teeth, wipe off your glasses, and keep your chin up, it's gonna be a beautiful day today, which basically means, by noon, i'll make more money than you'll make by friday. have a very nice day:cool:

Ric
03-29-2004, 12:40 PM
Originally posted by bobbygedd
ric, me, insulted? considering the source, no, i'm not insulted at all. curious though, just where did you further your education, you do realize you spell at about the same level as a 6th grader? anyhow, the fact remains, you spent more time, more money, to make the same as the misfits in gator town, and less than a hippie kid from jersey, i don't know ric, need i say more? oh yea, and you're old enough to be my grandpa.i really have to speak to the activity coordinators there at the senior center, don't they keep you people busy? you been spending too much time on this computer lately, shouldn't you be at water arobics or something? now put in your teeth, wipe off your glasses, and keep your chin up, it's gonna be a beautiful day today, which basically means, by noon, i'll make more money than you'll make by friday. have a very nice day:cool:

Booby

I have just placed you on my ignore list. How when I re-read these threads, They don't make sense. You are right I am spending too much time on this. As far as making money I am sure your street corner does well. However be careful because you might get the 3 hots and a cote retirement plan.

I also want thank you for the offer of a pair of heavy shoes. However you know us old folks, we don't like cold and the water off of Wildwood NJ. is not the warmest. I do have a life other than the Internet. Yes even here in Florida, God's Waiting room, we have family and friends to spend our time with. Therefore, there is no need for me to post dribble all day long.

How in closing I want to wish you and your's the best. It has been fun but it has gotten old a long time ago. I will also concede the fact you have won our exchange of words. You are the Master. In fact you are a real asset to the way the new Lawn Site is going. Now if you ever get your own private forum at Lawn Site like a few others have, please don't include me.

bobbygedd
03-29-2004, 03:35 PM
now ric, this is the second time you said you wouldn't be back, let's see how long this lasts. the only thing that got old a long time ago, is you. and yes, i agree, i have won this round, face it , you are no match for me intillectually or on any other level. if this were a boxing match, the ref would have stopped it long ago.

timturf
03-29-2004, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by get rich
Although i've trained under people who have aquired B.S. degrees' and consider myself as filling the bill of lawn tech very easily. I don't believe we all need to speed thousands of dollars with higher education, when we can just train for a couple years under you and learn all of your IMPORTANT knowledge. And save lots of money and time. The guy i trained under had degrees from university of wisconsin and he is a very smart cookie and he always told me life expirence was much more useful than learning from books and field trip to the arbertum. And i hope that didn't sound like a knock on higher education, because i didn't mean it to be.

A point well made. There is no reason why you can't be self taught or learn the turfgrass field from somebody else. The person who has a college degree, a 2 or 4 year degree, should be better able to understand how things interreact, and how you can incorporate different concepts, ideas, techniques to achieve your desired results!

When giving advice to young people wanting to be GC superintendent, I always told them to get a 2 year degree from a good turf program, to get a good hands on experience, then transfer to a good 4 year program to get the scientific education of how things work.

I've know people who have a 4 yr turf degree who aren't the best turfgrass growers, and I've seen other poeple who have just learn the trade, and grow great turfgrass! It all depends on how you apply your knowledge!!!!!!

Now if your soil test stated you need 1.8 lbs of p, and you use 12-18-10 fert, how many lbs/m would you have to apply?

BUT, if your soil test stated you needed 1.8 lbs of p2o5, and you used 12-18-10, how many lbs/m would you have to use?

get rich
03-29-2004, 10:26 PM
I'm sorry , i'm not sure i understand the question. But i'm sure my fert reps would because they would be doing the testing for me. I'm sure they would explain it to me in great detail. Thats is why i purchase from them. Not because of price, because of quality of service. Hats off to you though. You have the toughest job around. Granted i have some pain in the butt customers, but you have daily traffic and damage by sad golfers like me. I'll think of you when i replace my next crater of a divets. PEACE

Ric
03-30-2004, 07:59 AM
A point well made. There is no reason why you can't be self taught or learn the turfgrass field from somebody else.

In fact College only gives you back ground and science. Only 20% of what you need to know is taught in colleges. The rest you must learn from Experience. Common Sense is the Biggie. However a desire to learn and the wiliness to read, read and read will get you further ahead.

I think the whole thread can be summed up with one word.
ATTITUDE