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cat320
12-02-2000, 05:32 PM
What is the best skid steer out there is every one like the bobcat the best or the new john deere .I think that the new deers are the best out there. what is every one else's opinion?

Guido
12-02-2000, 05:56 PM
The only time I used anything besides a Bobcat as far as ss's go, it was a CASE and I hated it, it ran like crap. I won't blame it on case though, I'll blame it on the rental house. Case has made some good heavy equipment, so I'm sure they're skid steers are satisfactory.

We have all Bobcat's in our Fleet here.

1 553
1 773
2 863
1 873

and a 324 mini-excavator.

3 of the loaders have the old foot controls and 2 have the new hand controls.

I really like the new hand controls. When I'm running a skid for a while and my legs get tired I like to stretch them without thinking and it ends up sending my bucket in the air! The hand controls are a lot better on rough terrain too, where your feet might hit the pedals by mistake.

We've had great luck with our Bobcat fleet, can't realy complain about anything. Some of you may have seen the pic on my website of me with the 863 (I think) stuck in a swamp when I was digging out some contaminated soil. I had it in the mud over the back engine compartment door and filling up inside the cab. The machine never stalled or even hessitated. After a good pressure washing, its good as new!

We've been using our skid steers and mini excavator more than our larger equipment because lately we've been doing a lot of confined area work and road work. The small streets in Germany can't accomodate a backhoe with out closing down the road, so with the mini and a loader with the dump hopper attatchment we can get away with leaving our roads open while we work.

Lately, in all the construction and heavy equip. magazines they're has been a ton of articles on the benefits of theese smaller machines. Today especially because worksites and neighborhoods are getting congested with all the building going on and a lot of the time, all your going to be able to squeeze into some of these places are a mini or a skid steer.

I posted this elsewhere I think in the lawn care forum, but we have ALL the attatchments melroe makes, and a couple of home made ones, so if anyone has any questions, let me know. I'll be posting the pics of our skid steers and all the attatchments on my site in the next 1-2 weeks or so when I get the time.

tjg
12-02-2000, 07:56 PM
Cat320, you asked me in the Comm. forumn if I got the G series, yes I did get the new G-series and I did look at a used New Holland that was at the White Star(Bobcat dealer), didn't really like it it was to old and rough, also looked at a 1993 7753 Bobcat w/1400hrs in good shape but for about $70.00 more dollars a month a could get a NEW 773 Bobcat w/ a 3year/3000hrs warranty that changed my mind,could easliy pay for itself if something major(motor)would have gone out of the used machine.The dealership was not pushy in any way and there is two of their company dealerships within 1hr or where I bought it they are 2hrs. away but my salesman comes up here 2-3days a week and said anything I wanted to rent or demo he would deliver. Guido how do the tracks work on this machines.You said you had everything or about, this was one thing I would like to have along w/ the tree shears. One other reason was the rebate or discount of $4700.00 that helped.

paul
12-02-2000, 08:05 PM
New Holland here guys, 2 555 skid steers, one 783, one LS190, and one 270 John Deere. We have had some problem with the JD the tourque tube at the rear of the loader twisted and cracked, fixed under warrantee, but still worried about it.

Looking at replacing the two 555 New Hollands this year, with LS160's they both have over 6000 hrs on them, the pins are getting loose and costs more to repin and bush them.

diggerman
12-02-2000, 08:42 PM
We run a Case 90xt,when we bought it I did a demo on a JD and I thought it could be the worst machine I had ever run.I was actually sore after a days worth of use.There is another excavating contractor in our town who uses deere and he was so mad after he got his new machine I think he made them do some mods to another machine until he was satisfied.The bobcats I ran were well priced and seemed to be a quality machine, but did not have the options I wanted.I have never run a New Holland but I do not like the long tale swing on them.

paul
12-02-2000, 08:47 PM
Jd and New Holland are about the same on the tail swing same as with the Bobcat 873.

AK Snow
12-03-2000, 03:19 PM
I've had a Cat 236 skid steer for about 2 months now - so far I'm real happy with it. In size, weight, and lift capacity it sort of falls in somewhere between the bobcat 700 and 800 series machines. Price-wise the local Cat dealer was willing to beat the Bobcat and Case dealer by several thousand dollars on comparable machines - I'm told this is because Cat is still fairly new to skid steers and are trying get some market penetration. If you're on the market, they're worth checking out.

Alaska Dave

steveair
12-03-2000, 06:53 PM
hello,

I won't get into my favorite skid steer, but will just mention if anyone has gotten there latest issue of Northern Tool and Equipment and seen that they are now selling used bobcat skidsteer units. They have 753 for 9999.00 w/less than 2000 hrs, and also 853, 873, and newer 1997 753 too's.

Not sure how well they are going to sell, but just thought it was interesting. Look like they are selling 'floor' models, ie. ones with solid tires, uses for shop/indoor work. Always was interested in their refurbished forklifts, so wonder if they plan on working on the same deal with bobcats.

steveair

snow
12-05-2000, 10:09 AM
steveair-

I saw that also, i was looking at construction attachments and on the top of the page they have like 6 skidsteer models. I don't know how many they have, but they probably bought them all from a company and fixed them up a little. they didn't mention aux. hydraulics.


Bryan

little green guy
12-05-2000, 04:36 PM
I think the New Holland is the best, I've spent alot of time on the Lx865. The Superboom is the best, I've also run John Deere and Bobcats a couple times but I like the New Holland the best. The John Deere that I ran was identicle to the New Holland.

diggerman
12-05-2000, 10:42 PM
Alot of your preference has to do with the type of work you do.I do alot of digging and grading and find that the long wheel base of some of the heavy lift units really tear up the ground when doing alot of turning.Also the boom configurations cut down on visability, and the tail swing can hamper production in tight areas.If I was laying sod or loading and unloading land scaping blocks there is no question I would want something diffrent.

paul
12-05-2000, 11:04 PM
Digger, we do a lot of dirt work and find that the longer wheelbase helps in giving a better finish grade. But for digging you can't beat a shorter unit, the 863 and the XT90 are some of the best machines for this type of work.

Scag48
12-07-2000, 10:29 AM
I'd have to agree with digger. Different machines for different jobs. I like New Holland's Super Boom for lifting and they have the best lifting capacity (I think). Bobcat does make a bigger machine (873) that is about like a New Holland and would be great for a big sod job or finish grading. Longer wheelbase = better grading. But for like landscaping where dig and carry is an issue and space requirements, Bobcat would be my choice. I don't think you can beat their 753's. Best little machines on the market in my opinion. I don't think that Cat has really figured out what they're doing with their skidsteers. I think over time they will but right now they are just swimming in the ocean of competition.

paul
12-07-2000, 05:40 PM
Skid steer Lifting:
Case XT95=3000 lbs (factory ratings)
New Holland LS190=2800
Case XT90=2800
John Deere 270=2600
Case XT85=2600
New Holland LS180=2400
Bobcat 873=2400
only one I know I'm missing is the Bobcat 963
but didn't look at machines weighing over 8000 lbs

Over here for landscaping (Chicago area) New Holland out sells the other three combined

[Edited by paul on 12-07-2000 at 10:42 PM]

plowking35
12-10-2000, 09:53 PM
For whats its worth MPT is running a test with urethane bucket edges. If you would like to be part of that test with low intro priceing, give me a call at 860-859-0739 and I will give you details.
Dino

midjersey
03-24-2002, 05:20 PM
:blob3: CAT.. CAT.. CAT.. I just bought a 246 TURBO so far its great. I researched all the other brands. I was very impressed with the CAT experience. Price was very competitive and the service was great. The financing was 2.9% waht else could you ask for. It has a 74HP Turbo CAT engine. Rated Operating Capacity is 2000lb. All bobcats attachments fit. Spend the extra money and get the enclosed cab & heat. Its worth it. Plus you are backed by a great name and reputation. Hand controls are great, with less fatigue at the end of the day. Try one youll love it.

CT18fireman
03-24-2002, 05:36 PM
Hands down

CAT

nough said

landscaper3
04-05-2002, 09:58 PM
How are the Bobcats 751 - 753 - 863- 763- 843? I found a website that sells all these for under $9000!

General Grounds
04-30-2002, 07:46 PM
:blob3: you go midjersy, scag man you should have come to the Cat factory with us in january and you might be singing a different tune, when the bobcat, case and Cat are compared side side the cat was better built hands down over the rest. i own a cat 226 for over a year now and would'nt trade it in for the world. many rental house out here changed over to cat for their ease of operation and reliablity. tony

Pelican
05-24-2002, 10:15 PM
One more vote for CATERPILLAR !

Yeah, I'm shouting!:)

Temco
06-08-2002, 06:07 PM
Last year I bought a Bobcat 773 with advanced hand controls, at the time it seemed like it would be easier controlling the whole unit with your hands. I had to get rid of it this year because it was killing my wrists trying to do everything with your hands!!! I just replaced it with an S185 (same machine,different model #) this time with foot pedals. I'm actually doing a lot better opearting the machine now. The 773 was my first skid steer and kept getting screwed up with the hand control for the bucket, you had to move it opposite of the way you thought you would tilt, in other words...tilting the control inward made the bucket raise. I don't think the extra money for hand controls is worth it. Just my opinion.

For you New Holland people out there, I actually went to the local dealer to try them out first but the fat salesman behind the desk was too busy moving large excavator's and stuff he didn't have time for me. New Holland has since taken away the dealership from them.

cat320
06-08-2002, 06:49 PM
which dealer is that not woodco in woburn?

snow
07-13-2002, 10:28 PM
I used to say New Holland and Bobcat used to be the biggest around here for skidsteers. While i do see some of them new, the most machines i see around here are Cats. A pretty large construction company has 2 or 3 Cat 226's. I'm seeing Cat skidsteers everywhere now. Their controls are interesting, one hand controls the bucket and boom, the other the controls the direction. The only foot petal is the gas petal.

For those of you who have bought Cat skidsteers, and have used other brands, how does it compare to the other brands?



Bryan:waving:

Pelican
07-13-2002, 11:34 PM
I bought my Cat for both the controls and dealer support. I live 10 minutes from H.O. Penn, our Cat dealer. The controls really sold me though.

I'm sure most know by now that the Cat is equipped with electronic excavator style joysticks, joysticks because they are such a joy to operate!. Your right stick controls boom lift and bucket curl in the same method as the industry standard, so there's no transition when jumping in from a loader or TLB. The left stick controls machine speed and direction in the same method as a hydrostatic dozer, you point where you want to go.

My machine is the 248 and although it only has a 2000lb capacity, I'm able to unload 3500lb pallets of bricks from my trucks with no problem.

I had rented Bobcat in the past and the hand/foot deal just isn't for me. Plus, the short wheelbase makes the machine ride very rough. I understand now they offer Cat style controls and longer wheelbase machines, so maybe there's an improvement.

I had demoed John Deere, their machine was OK, but the salesman was never available and never returned my calls.

My buddy recently took delivery of a New Holland 190 and wanted me to try it out. I was really disappointed with his machine, it had Case style controls which were very stiff and awkward to use. The drive motors made so much noise hearing protection was needed. When digging into a material pile, the drive motors drain all the hydraulic power away from the boom so you can't push and lift at the same time. There's a seat belt that must be fastened before you can start the machine, it almost always takes three attempts to get it fastened. I think this machine would beat you up if you had to run it all day, I wasn't very impressed. It seems antiquated.

I had also demoed the Case XT series, these would be my second choice over Cat. They have the excavator type controls as well although in a Case pattern. They also have a fairly long wheelbase that smooths out the ride and makes a more stable platform. Not a bad machine.

I'm not looking to start a brand war, but the Cat does the best job for my requirements. I have two complaints: The drip rail over the entry point is set up so that water drips in your lap after a rain and the other is the throttle lever. It rubs the side of my leg, but newer models have a relocated lever that doesn't cause interference. I've had my Cat for 3 seasons now and have had zero problems with it. The cab is so quiet you can run all day without plugs or muffs and not be fatigued.

paul
07-14-2002, 12:11 PM
New Holland LS 190 being noisy, :) With 83 hp I wouldn't expect it to be quiet! I run a couple yes they are loud but we require all our operator to wear hearing protection no matter what equipment they are running. Now for a 190 running out of power digging, I find that hard to beleive. I just put on out on a job loading semi's it kept 3 trucks busy on 20 minute turn around times.

paul
07-14-2002, 01:42 PM
One question how can the drive motors take away from the gear pump? They are two different systems? Gear pump runs the hyd cylinders and piston pumps run the wheel motors.

Pelican
07-14-2002, 02:30 PM
I was afraid my post would get this reaction. I'm only reporting my experiences with these machines.

I've got a number of hours time in my buddy's New Holland and although I'm not familiar with its hydraulic system, it would not push and lift in a material pile at the same time. He's got the 4 way bucket and they are experiencing trouble lifting a full bucket of item 4 to the end of the lift cycle to load his tri-axles. Perhaps that bucket is too heavy for the machine, a service rep said that their complaint is a common one. I only have his machine as reference, it's brand new, but perhaps not representative of the brand?

He bought his machine because he needed high flow combined with a vertical lift boom, something Cat didn't offer.

Noise level? My Cat is 76hp, 7 less than yours, and I would say my cab noise is no more so than in my PowerStroke pick-up. We use hearing protection when it's required, but it's nice when it isn't.

paul
07-14-2002, 03:02 PM
I'm just wondering why he's having this problem, he might want to have his hyd system checked, some dealers turn it down, pressure releif valve. As far as lifting and curling the bucket remember it's a vertical lift system, not a curved lift system. This makes it harder on new operators or ones that are used to the old system. Think of how the bucket is moving tru the pile.

PRapoza451
07-29-2002, 06:31 PM
I Love my CAT 246 Turbo too! Hand controls are great. Easy to operate and less fatigue. I rented a CAT 277 track machine a couple of weeks ago and WOW! What a machine that is. The site I was working on was so sandy. It was like driving the machine in three feet of flour. I was able to backblade fill up hill with the track machine, unbelievable. And it pushes like nobodies business. Like a little dozer. Smooth ride. It's the next machine in the fleet that's for sure.
________
Paul

Pelican
07-29-2002, 07:45 PM
Paul, when I'm digging in a material pile, I do my digging at the bottom of the lift cycle, I've got a full bucket by 18" or less. The vertical lift geometry doesn't come into play until 3' or so, does it? So, the digging forces should be about the same on both machines, no?

Maybe my friend's machine has a problem unique to his machine, for New Holland's sake, I hope so. But, the service rep didn't seem interested in addressing these problems, and to me, that's a problem within itself.

Have you tried the Cat? If not, I'd recommend demoing one, you might be surprised.

paul
07-29-2002, 08:41 PM
The last machine I demoed was a Case 95xt, nice machine very expensive and just a bit triing with the controls, I did run a 75xt that was much better control wise.

As for loader cycles a curved lift path starts at the bottom of the cycle, the gemoetry doesn't change once the arm starts to lift it pulls away from the pile. A verticle lift system tries to push up straight into the pile. the differances are not much but leverage is much greater with the curved system as it breaks away.

For the type of work that I do a vertical path is needed more than heavy digging power. Most of what I do with bigger machines involves heavy lifting off of trucks and loading semi's both of which require a long reach. Loading semi's with a LS 190 is an enjoyable task no dirt in your face and you don't have to turn the trucks around or worry about not loading them full.

cat320
07-30-2002, 10:25 AM
did cat redesign their lift path I saw a picture with one that looked similar to a bobcat 773.Peilcan hows your truck doing when do you expect it to be finished with the body on it?

Pelican
07-30-2002, 10:05 PM
Cat now has two vertical lift machines, the 252 and 262, I don't know their capacities off hand. For some reason you can't get either as a high flow model, seems like it would be a simple job to offer. They're missing the boat on that one.

No word on the truck yet.

Potomac Lawns Inc.
07-31-2002, 05:13 PM
Anybody ever run the GEHLS they have hand controls and i think they are great, never had any problems.

Steve

DaddyRabbit
07-31-2002, 08:53 PM
:blob3: I am looking now at the Cat 257 track skid steer. This is a new machine so who knows what to expect except the fact that it's a CAT so what else is there to say? Bobcat and all other brands has some very nice skid steers as well so not to cut them short but the controls in the CAT as well as not having to run the engine WFO while working and still have maximum lift power is an added benifit. This model has A/C coming out in Oct. I love the tracks as it doesn't beat you up so badly as foam tires plus very little ground pressure/turf damage. Anybody else have any experience w/this new machine?

Scag48
07-31-2002, 10:56 PM
Daddy Rabbit-Look into the Bobcat T190 or T200. They are very nice machines. The Bobcat deluxe cabs are the best out there...by FAR! I had the opportunity to sit in one of the deluxe cabs with the deluxe seat and all the goodies. They are extremely comfortable, not to mention the HVAC. The heating/AC system is supposed to be really good, altough I haven't tried it. I thought that I would need advanced hand controls for me to run the Bobcats, but it turns out that the sticks aren't too bad. Give me a G-series 753 with deluxe instrumentation and combo bucket and I'll be happy with that! I wish I had a serious need to buy a skid steer, but I'll just have to keep renting a Bobcat 751, which was a kick in ***** to run if you're a first timer. I was really impressed with how much faster it can make a job go and how fun they are to run. The visibilty is pretty good and the majority of the time I was trying to see where my tires where so I didn't run myself into a rock culvert. The only thing that I didn't like with the 751 that I rented was the bucket cylinder cross member. You can't see the cutting edge which was tough for me when I was trying to load the bucket with drain rock in a pile. One thing I did learn, never turn too fast on asphalt. They buck back and forth and make you spill part of your load. I hope that I didn't babble on too much, maybe that helps someone.

DaddyRabbit
08-01-2002, 07:43 AM
Scag, I looked at the T200 and the only problem I saw is it's not a vertical path lift which is a must have for me or when one loads trucks. The T190 is a vertical path lift and is a very nice machine, can't say one bad thing about them. I have seen a few T190's operate and all did very well. The tracks appear to me more narrow than that of the Cat 257 for some reason. LOL, the turning sharp will make you look like a "bubba" if you're not careful, I have done it before believe me and everything else that will make you look foolish on a skid steer. I should have a price today on the Cat 257. The Bobcat T190 was priced at 39,999 including a 4in1 bucket and a Harley Rake, can't remember if forks were in the deal as well.?

PRapoza451
08-02-2002, 05:46 PM
I've been in the CAT 277 track machine since Wednesday. That thing is awesome. I love the hand controls, very sensitive, for finesse work. We spread 125 yards of loam today in six 6.5 hrs. and that includes some breaks. My understanding of the Bobcat track machine is that it doesn't have any suspension system, could make for a bumpy ride. The Cat has the ASV suspension system. I have never driven a Bobcat track machine and their is no reason for me too.
_________
Paul

clamcooker
08-08-2002, 04:52 PM
I agree the CAT 277 is awesome. The RC-50 is really nice too from ASV, it's like a little brother to the 277, lot cheaper and easier to haul around. If you currently have a small skid-steer and like that size I think the 50 would be the way to go IMHO.

CLAM

m&m
08-18-2002, 03:50 PM
i have ran bobcats and new hollands and a few off the wall brands......for tight areas, id say the 753 or 763 bobcat is nice......but for overall, i would rather have a new holland.........they lift higher as far as loading dump trucks , unless bobcat has changed, and they also have a good hydraulic pressure for " throwing" the dirt.... we had a L781 that worked wonders

MJ LANDSCAPING
08-25-2002, 09:02 PM
:blob3: Let me tell you I tried the CAT 277 at the CAT SKID STEER factory and that thing is unstopable. It is a great machine. I own a 246 Turbo and if it wasnt for me driving on asphalt most of the time, I would have bought the 277. CAT builds great machines how could you have any doubt in there skid steers. I am working on getting A/C for my 246. They say in October. Keep up the great work Caterpillar.

clamcooker
08-26-2002, 10:35 PM
Why would you not buy a 277 just cause you run on asphalt? From what I here 277 track life is great on asphalt, way more than tires, and way, way more than Bobcats t200 tracks. If you ever watch a 277 turn on asphalt it is so smooth like its gliding, not like a skid-steer tire that bounces and chatters, I think thats why it works good on asphalt.

Clam

Xtreme Lawns
08-28-2002, 08:38 AM
Definately the cat 277 If I had the money my dealer already sold their demo higher above my reps head i can't wait till they get another I Tried Al The loader at expo and this was in my top 2 choices

Bobcat (like controls takes longer to get used to )
JCB (Easy to operate Nice cold A/C)
Cat ( Loved it )
ASV (ok)
Belle (felt unsaft like it would tip on a small hill)
John Deere ( Don't buy no foot room)
Rayco (Great duetz diesal easy to use needs A/C) My Favorite:rolleyes:
Buy Cat,JCB,Rayco
tonight i will post my picks of tricks i did

Xtreme Lawns
08-28-2002, 09:11 AM
new holland i have use to nic machine

jaybird24
02-21-2003, 08:39 PM
Cat hands down. I have a 232 and 226 and I can't believe a better machine could be built. Right now they have $1500 down and you get it for 3 months- if you dont like it give it back and no ones hurt. If you decide to buy it they match that $1500 after 3 months = $3000down off the bat. They are more than willing to deal with you also. Around here they don't budge on the price much, but you can easily get a bucket w/ tooth bar and heater cab thrown in and maybe some counter weights. Try them all, I have- and I think you'll find the cat to be the best built and easiest to operate.

horn frog
02-28-2003, 10:44 AM
My question is what size should an individual look at for general personal use (granted this depends on your budget, etc.)?

Right now I am trying to decided whether to keep an old tractor for mowing and buy a skid steer for brush clean up etc. on my place or buy a tractor (40-50 PTO) with a loader.

If I go with a Cat or Case, what should be the horsepower range? Same as tractor range or higher?

Thanks, any information would be appreciated.

m&m
02-28-2003, 08:29 PM
depends on what kind of brush and how much u got.... if you are simply psuhing brush in a pile to clean it up and burn, a simple bobcat 743 would do the trick....im just using a random model for instance......also if you are loading brush, somethign you may wanna consider is a grappler bucket,,,,,,it works like a regular bucket but it doesnt pick up the dirt,,kinda filters it out in a way.......very neat attachment....... it just depends on what all you plan on doing with it....... if ya like send me an email at ironcwb@yahoo.com and i will be glad to answer ur ?'s.........i have done a lot of things with skid steers as well as play basketball with round bales of hey in the cow pen........

mike

horn frog
02-28-2003, 09:19 PM
I have 24 acres. Mostly cedar trees, oaks and mesquite. Will do brush/cedar removal with it. Plan to generally clean up place, move large rocks and enlarge my pond.

ksss
03-02-2003, 09:26 PM
If you opt for a CASE machine I'd look into a 90XT or 95XT. The 90 is a radial lift the 95 is vertical. If your not loading trucks you can save money with the 90XT. They both have 85 horse. The 90 has lift capacity of 2450 and the 95 is 3150 and 3650 with counter weight. I am on my second 95xt right now. They are awsome machines. Compare how they are built against the competion and you'll see why they bring more money then the others.

DIGEM
03-03-2003, 09:18 PM
bobcat mine is 8 yrs old only 3 hoses replaced no other break down . does everything i could ask

ABM
03-15-2003, 10:27 PM
I have run most all of the machines listed in this post and prefer the Gehls over the rest. They have great reliability, ease of maintenance, and I prefer the hand controls to the Bobcat type controls. The thing that I like the most about the hand controls is that I have more dexterity with my hands and wrists which is nice in confined operating environments. I also like the fact that you don't have to clear debris away from the pedals (snow buildup, dirt, ect.) in order to keep it operating efficiently. One drawback is that your hands can get pretty cold while operating this type of machine in the winter. On mine I wrap the controls with electrical heat tape (made for snomobiles) in the winter to combat this problem. The two speed models are preferable to the single in cutting travel time on long hauls and in moving snow.

DIGEM
03-18-2003, 10:34 PM
got a buddy that bought a gehl. he has had problem afterproblem.broke axle busted 2 mian cylinders ,o-rings ,leaks ,hoses, tires,handles breaking.mine is a smaller machine and i do everthing he does but without thebreakdowns

Rainking11
04-23-2003, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by clamcooker
Why would you not buy a 277 just cause you run on asphalt? From what I here 277 track life is great on asphalt, way more than tires, and way, way more than Bobcats t200 tracks. If you ever watch a 277 turn on asphalt it is so smooth like its gliding, not like a skid-steer tire that bounces and chatters, I think thats why it works good on asphalt.

Clam

Who told you that tracks are better on asphalt?

There is more surface to track coverage a track loader than on a skid-steer. I have a hard time believing that it would cause more wear on them than a tire. In addition, tires are a lot cheaper to replace than tracks.

On another note, if you like the track system that Cat has - save your money and get an ASV. ASV came up with the track system on the Cat machines.

AL Inc
06-01-2003, 01:55 PM
Just wanted to bring this subject back up. I've been researching skid steers lately and I am looking to buy one for next season. I will be using the machine for my landscape business moving soil, mulch and gravel, grading, clearing brush, removing overgrown shrubs, etc.

I have experience on the 753 Bobcat which I usually rent, and the LS 170 and 180 New Hollands that a close friend of mine owns. I am leaning toward the LS 170 because the New Holland dealer is close and has provided good service to my friend.

I have read most of the threads on here, but I would appreciate any other input on other machines. There are also dealers slightly farther away for Gehl, Bobcat, Case, Daewoo and Cat. Thank you in advance, Mike

LandMatters
09-17-2003, 12:22 PM
Where is the Caterpillar factory located.

I'm thinking of either getting a Cat Track Loader or maybe the ASV

thanks

Pelican
09-17-2003, 12:35 PM
Go to Caterpillar.com to find the closest dealer. They have a dealer network and do not sell through the factory.

Wayward
09-17-2003, 07:38 PM
For those of you that have a CAT with air conditioning, how well does it work? I'm in south Texas and I'm wondering if it will be good enough for the 90+ temps we get. Thanks.

Scag48
09-22-2003, 01:26 AM
3 years ago I wouldn't have even looked at Cat for skid steers, but after 5 years of constant changing, they are on top in my book. Everyone has been told that Bobcat is the best and that's what they believe. I suggest to anyone looking for a skid steer go look at Cat. They are more expensive than Bobcat, I will warn you there, but I believe they are worth it. First off, on the smaller machines from Bobcat, like the 753, you can't get hand controls. I have run both, and I prefer hand controls. The ability to stretch the legs is worth it right there, and not having use your legs and stress the knees all day is another plus. The rear service door is great as well. The Bobcat has this, but is very cluttered and tough to find some service points. Cat has made everything easy to find and simple to do maintenance. The biggest deciding factor for me was dealer support. Our local Bobcat dealer didn't even have one single machine on the lot :eek: Now, I'm not saying that Bobcat is a bad machine one bit. They've been doing this for about 30 years and they've built a reputation. But, Cat has some great features that will make you look twice.


BTW, we have a Cat 216 with a combo bucket that is a real workhorse.

DavidD
10-04-2003, 10:04 PM
I Like the bobcat Ive owned others and still keep going back to bobcat I have a 763 & 863. I did find this neat attachment that enables me to move trailers around the job sites without unloading the forks.
http://www.tractortotes.com

m&m
10-05-2003, 04:08 PM
neat lil attachment but i have always either used the bucket or the forks to move the trailer around......loaded or unloaded.........and if you are worried about the tongue sliding off the forks, just hook the safety chains up.......as for gooesneck trailers, bucket is a neat lil quick fix.... see ya

m&m
10-05-2003, 04:10 PM
or drill a hole into fork and keep a ball in the cab with ya

racerdave
10-14-2003, 09:24 PM
Hey guys! thanks for the great input on skidsteers!

From your opinions I'm considering a Cat 226 and a Bobcat S175.
The Majority of the work I do is with large tree balls and tree planting. With my own home projects, I'll use it for locating larger Limestone boulders.

This week I try them out....

David

Scag48
10-16-2003, 12:39 AM
If you're considering an enclosed cab, go with Bobcat. Theirs are much better than Cat by far. Cat has some general features that are petty nice as well. You get 100% hydraulic pressure all the time with Cat, meaning that if want to do fine grading with low ground speed and fast hydraulic speed, this is a great feature. Plus it cuts down on fuel consumption as well. Also, the rear engine compartment is a little less uncluttered compared to Bobcat, makes things easier for me. The radiator cooling fan blows air up instead of drawing air in, keeping the radiator core cleaner and keeps hot air away from the operator station. Also, the fan is hydraulically powered, so it's a little more reliable I guess. You will find that hand controls are superior to hand and foot, I have run both and prefer hand controls. Really what it came down to in the end for us was dealer support. Our Bobcat dealer here is terrible so we went with Cat. So far Cat has come through. We have had minor problems with our machine to date, an auxilary hydraulic coupler was leaking a bit so they sent a mechanic 45 miles from the dealer to come up and fix it on the job cost free. To me that's worth it right there. Take a look at Cat, you might be signing a different tune. Good luck to you!

racerdave
10-16-2003, 01:17 PM
Scag, they brought the Cat out last nite for an 8 hr demo:D
I love the hand controls and the smoothness of the actions. I have the 226 right now but my look at the next larger size for my hardscaping work.

Dave

Scag48
10-16-2003, 11:27 PM
Dave,
I initially started looking at a 236, the big brother to the 226. Turns out it was too big for us right now. The next machine we buy will be upwards of 2250 ROC for handling the heavy loads. Our 216 can handle about 1700 pounds really low to the ground, but you have to be really careful with it. I take it you bit the bullet and are going with Cat? If so, good luck with it! Great machines.

racerdave
10-28-2003, 08:36 PM
scag48

I'm still looking at both Bob and Cat :p

the Bobs will have the same hand controls available in Jan. 04

I hate the front door on the 185 I demoed, but it had about a 1000 hrs in the rental fleet on it. (wouldn't stay latched) It popped open at the most inopportune time and I popped the glass out of it.

The Cats are a bit more than the Bobs. I wish there was a good site for checking on the pricing, like we can on our trucks.

David

m&m
10-28-2003, 11:42 PM
personal opinion from yall since we discussing skid steers......how many think useing the bucket with teeth is just as good as using a harley rake to make seed bed for a yard..........have always used bucket and had good results and cant see the need to sink 5000 dollars into a harley rake although it does a purty job and neat at that........may have to pick a stick or rock up here or there but survey is left to yall now

racerdave
01-15-2004, 01:27 PM
Heys guys! I ended up buying a Cat 246 repo from ironplanet.com
I've had it for about three weeks now and I'm extremely happy with it.

I do need to get some manuals for it though. the dealer here wants $100 for them. Call me cheap, but I think they should be free:D


Has anyone seen these type of manuals at the library?


David

ksss
01-19-2004, 03:58 PM
M&M

Personally I can't imagine preping a yard with bucket teeth. We have two FFC Preparators they do a great job as do others. When competetion as tight as it is I think it would be tough to compete with someone using a rock rake. People pay good money for their yards to look "Purdy". Plus I can't see how bucket teeth can do a good job at preping the seed bed. But whatever works for you.

AL Inc
03-14-2004, 10:45 PM
Guys- I demo'd the Cat 257 tracked machine on Friday. All I can say is Wow. Just a really smooth, well built machine, there really wasn't anything I didn't like. I have also heard great things about H.O. Penn. There are 2 other machines I''m going to look at yet, the Bobcat T250 and the John Deere 260. But it looks like the Cat could be the one. Now I know what all the Cat guys here have been raving about. Mike

Scag48
03-15-2004, 12:25 AM
I've heard a couple things regarding the Bobcat T250 and the Deere 260. The T250 I heard was rough riding, I don't know if that goes for the entire line of Bobcat tracked machines or not, but it looks like a solid machine. I guess all these machines are pretty rough in general though, who knows. I've heard some weird stories about Deere's line. Some people I've talked to and a couple guys on here didn't like them a whole lot for reliability issues. They have a solid frame though. Vertical lift, great visibility, long wheelbase, good lift capacity on smaller machines but apparently they aren't horribly reliable. Oh yeah, this is my opinion but the JD enclosed cabs SUCK. The door slides upwards like a garage door, jams really bad and is just a pain.

AL Inc
03-15-2004, 12:47 AM
Thanks, Scag48. I know, I've read some of the unfavorable things here about the Deere's. I've just been trying to read and talk to as many guys as possible. There are a couple larger design/build companies here running them and one guy I spoke to was pretty happy with his. I didn't know about the garage door style cab on the Deere, I'm supposed to demo the 260 a week from tommorrow and will ask about that. Thanks for the info, Mike

Randy Scott
03-15-2004, 10:25 PM
The 260 Deere is underpowered for an 8000 lb. machine. Don't waste your time with it. Stab a pile, roll backwards, lift and dump, and the thing will be bogging.

I don't have ANYTHING good to say about Deere. My posts in the recent past will point that out. I will probably spend the rest of my born days telling people what a POS their machine is and the way I was handled by Deere and my local dealer.

I know there are two sides to every story, I preach that all the time on here. But if you want to second guess me and how I handle business with suppliers, you can PM me and I'll give you names and numbers of other equipment dealers I deal with and you can call them and they can tell you how I conduct myself and work well with them. Deere has got me so pizzed off I can't see straight. So every chance I get to tell someone what garbage their machines are, I will.

Besides that, now that those turds have been around for a few years, they are turning up at auctions left and right. I'm not, by far, the only guy that's had problems. Go look at machinerytrader.com and compare how many are on there to other brands and the short amount of time they've been in production. I'm talking the 200 series machines. Not when they were actually New Holland machines. F Deere and their product!

AL Inc
03-16-2004, 10:34 AM
Whoa, I guess Randy doesn't care for his JD?;)

Randy Scott
03-16-2004, 10:54 AM
Originally posted by AL Inc
Whoa, I guess Randy doesn't care for his JD?;)

Actually, our new S250 Bobcat should be getting unloaded off the semi today. Then they can drag that POS Deere onto it and get it out of here.

GrassFearsMe
03-20-2004, 10:49 PM
Paul buy the ls170's to replace the triple nickels thats what we did and loved the new machine.

Tigerotor77W
03-27-2004, 07:20 PM
@ Al Inc,

There's a comparison of Bobcat vs. Cat tracked systems... here. (http://www.nebraskarents.com/default-multiterrainloader.asp) As you'll note, quite a difference between Bobcat and Cat track loaders.
BUT... if you're going skid steer, take a long, hard look at the Bobcat S220 and S250. Same engine, same frame, different lift path. The 220 is a radial lift; 250 is vertical. I know the S250 has stood up to some serious demolition work around here, so I'd assume that the S220 is pretty much the same. Joystick controls are nice; air conditioning works wonders.
I agree with Randy.. AVOID Deere.
Just my two cents.

AL Inc
03-31-2004, 04:21 PM
Just got back from looking at the Gehl 5640 machine. I wasn't going to try Gehl, but the dealer is the closest one to my home, and it was raining today, so I went. Pretty sweet machine. It had alot of nice features and the price was actually pretty reasonable, even with standard bucket, 4 in 1, and forks. They run a Deutz diesel motor, the 60 hp standard motor, and for about 2k more, 82 hp turbo.
Anyone have any feedback on these machines? I like the fact that the dealer is so close should I need parts or service. I appreciate any help. Mike

General Grounds
04-03-2004, 09:33 PM
:blob3: hey guys, i own a CAT 226 and i just turned 3 years old, i love the machine to death, so far no problems at all. the machine runs smooth and strong, we just bought the light material bucket before the winter and what a hugh help with the snow. anyone out the who may buy a cat, just go and take a look, the redisigned the cab to have more room and visability, they r alittle more money but worth it, and cat has a great repitation. our dealer flew us to the cat factory in NC, now that is a sight to see, hundreds of skids as far as you can see, and for the most part the machine are assembled by hand, great machine. tony

Randy Scott
04-03-2004, 10:26 PM
Originally posted by General Grounds
:blob3: hey guys, i own a CAT 226 and i just turned 3 years old

Are you able to reach the pedals? :D

AL Inc
04-04-2004, 08:59 PM
Tony, I met with the guy from H.O. Penn on friday and it looks like I'm buying the 246. It is a leftover 2003 model with cab/heat, standard bucket, forks, and tracks. Considering it had the cab/heat, and 80 hp turbo diesel, it wasn't much more than the Gehl I was looking at. Looking forward to putting the thing to work.:)

General Grounds
04-04-2004, 10:41 PM
:blob3: al, good luck i think you'll be pleased with the decsion, i was. tony

Tigerotor77W
05-02-2004, 05:25 PM
Get it yet, Al? How is it?

AL Inc
05-02-2004, 06:43 PM
Love the machine. I've put about 30 hours on it so far, mostly moving soil and grading. I got the steel Loegering tracks with it and I'm so happy I did. With all the rain we've had here, I've been working in a lot of mud. The machine will go through almost anything.
The heat even got some use on some of those cold, rainy days we had. All in all, I'm really happy with my machine and the service I got from H.O. Penn.
I have a pretty big land clearing job lined up for Tuesday, the large trees are already down and now I have to clear the area for a pool and new landscaping. I will keep you guys posted on the machine. Thanks for all the input here! Mike

Tigerotor77W
05-06-2004, 07:30 PM
Very cool -- keep me posted.

I don't know what Cat was thinking with its 232 -- 5.7 inches of ground clearance. *laughs*

Tigerotor77W
07-27-2004, 04:17 PM
Deere's new 300 series skid steers are out.

AL Inc
07-30-2004, 07:54 PM
Bobcat- Do you know what some of the upgrades were on the 300 series? I spoke to a rep from Deere yesterday (bought my Cat in April, you're just a little late, buddy) and he told me the upgrades were only to comply with the new air pollution regs. I don't know but I kind of doubt that. Thanks, Mike

Tigerotor77W
08-01-2004, 12:20 PM
No, no, I'm a BOBCAT fan, not a DEERE fan. I don't think Deere is a bad machine, but I like Bobcats better. (And I was here when you were talking about your machine, too.)

The Deere line now has 4 and 5 cylinder engines vs. the older 3 and 4 cylinders... and the engines themselves are much, much smaller. Where the engine in the 270 or 280 (don't remember which) was 276 cubic inches, the new 325, 328, and 332 (corresponding to the 260, 270, and 280) are only 180-something cubic inches.

The lift heights remain unchanged, I believe, as do the breakout forces, but the axle torques have gotten a major improvement. (HUGE axle torque.)

Let's see... the rear mounting bars (cab to boom) has been adjusted a little bit as well for improved visibility and the radiator is now mounted on the rear door (ewww... punctures?).

That's about it for the chanes.

LandMatters
08-23-2004, 01:16 PM
I just started my business and choosing the right machine was a big decision. Of course I over analized every machine. I finally decided that a rubber track machine was the way to go with my first machine after having problems with skidloaders on wet/soft ground last fall. I drove a bunch of machines and in the end it was down to either Caterpillar or ASV because of the track technology they both share. I definitely did not like Bobcat's track machine. It was very rough riding. In the end, picked up a used Cat 257 machine because of price, but think that the ASV is just as good of a machine. ASV used Cat's hand controls and Cat uses ASV's track system. My next track machine will probably be an ASV because it's cab is designed to be on the track body. Cat uses the same cab for it's skid steers. ASV gets a little more capacity out of their machines. Also, the price is a big factor with ASV being cheaper for a similar machine. My next track machine will probably be the ASV 80 r 100 to handle larger loads/jobs. (drove the ASV 100 and it was able to pick up 7500lbs or 2 cubes of block with out breaking a sweat)

So far, the 257 has performed great. It's definitely a good starter size machine for working with hardscape installations. It is able to pickup almost all pallets we work with, with little strain and lots of stability. Once the pallets get over 3400lbs, then it gets a little more difficult moving around. This machine goes places that a traditional skidsteer wouldn't have dreamed of going, even with steel tracks.

I do want to add that we will probably have a mixed fleet of Traditional skidsteers and rubber tracks as our company grows. When working with lots of sand or gravel, those 2 ingredients spell trouble for most rubber track loaders. If you're doing lots of work on rough surfaces, you'll want a wheeled loader because of the wear on the tracks. After comparing Skidsteers, I liked the Thomas 255 the best. It doesn't have all the gadgets that some machines have, but to be honest, I don't want my guys having too many toys in the cab to break. These machines hold up for a long time, that's why you don't see many used ones for sale.

If anyone has any questions about the CAT 257, ASV or even Thomas, just drop me a line. Like I said, I did lots of research and know a good bit about these machines.

Tigerotor77W
08-24-2004, 09:51 PM
Thomas... did you actually try out their track system?

LandMatters
08-25-2004, 12:39 PM
Bobcat,
Is the question for me. My name is Adam.

If so, I checked out Bobcat, ASV/Caterpillar, Gehl, Takauchi, RCB, but liked the ASV/Caterpillar the best. The independent suspension is much better at not rattling your bones. Thomas Equipment also just came out with a track machine, but my first impression is I won't like it. It's actually a wheeled machine that converts to a dedicated track machine in about 4hours time. Haven't seen this thing in person though.

Tigerotor77W
08-25-2004, 04:02 PM
Yeah, the question was for you. Sorry, I was a little excited at the moment.

I agree with that Thomas overview. However, I don't doubt the machine -- it seems like it will have a sh*tload of power.

What did you think of Takeuchi vs. Bobcat vs. JCB? THe JCB undercarriage is very similar to Bobcat's.

ksss
08-26-2004, 01:06 AM
Thomas machines are easy to find. Just go to a Richie Bros. auction. I have watched new 1500 pound capacity machines go for 13K or less. Their marketing plan was/is to sell machines at auction to get them out. They have zero resale value but if the plan is to run them out it is a great deal. Their track system (I am almost 100% sure) belongs to Omni track. They put tracks on most any thing that moves. You can also get their track system for any skid steer not just Thomas. I also was not impressed with the Bobcat tracked machines. I know they sell but I really struggled with it. I ran a T190 and could not believe how primitive a machine it was. Difficult to turn (due to feedback in the sticks), loud (due to machine constantly going over relief), and under powered. I have not run any other except a short time in Takeuchi's machine (not long enough to have an informed decision). I think I will stick will tires and steel tracks for a while.

Tigerotor77W
08-26-2004, 12:16 PM
ksss, I don't doubt what you said. The Bobcat T190/T180 were underpowered; hence a whopping 5 hp. increase to 61 hp! I'm sure Bobcat engineers are still working on that one.

I think the problem with Bobcat, and in some cases, Cat, is that neither decides to innovate strongly. (I will admit Bobcat did well with 5600 and A220 and, to an extent, 430/435.) They seem to like to play catch-up quite a bit. Cat rushed a G-series dozer to counter the H-series from Deere; I don't know how long it will be before Bobcat gets out a revamped line (again) because their current line is just so weird. They have basically two frame designs for ten designs. (150, 160, 175, 185, 220, T250, S250, S300, T300, A300.) That's quite a big range...

Tigerotor77W
09-03-2004, 11:01 AM
And Bobcat has introduced a T140 and T205 as well as the S205. :scratch:

The S205 is powered by the 61 horse engine found in the T180/T190; I'm not sure what is in the T140.

Lombardi
09-14-2004, 09:53 PM
Bobcat will be offering a special this fall on the S150. Brand new, full warranty with bucket, $18,800. Regular price is $24k. Bobcat will also buy 1/2 of the finance cost if you buy down to 0%.

LiquidLand
09-17-2004, 11:02 PM
As a landscape project manager, I have seen a lot change in Florida in 20 years, and have over 4000 hrs. on Bobcat skidsteers alone...there's one thing they all had that this one doesn't...
The owner where I currently am lead designer and project mgr. has purchased an A300 series brand new Cat, complete with A/C!
Problem is...no frigging horn!!!!
Local rep says it comes with full joystick controls, escape hatches, electronic start and LCD display...horn isn't even an option-it's aftermarket!
For 43 large, it should be playin' Dixie!!!!!(tunes wouldn't hurt either)
from a cool :cool: 78 degree Cat cab
Salutations and cheers!
LL

Tigerotor77W
09-18-2004, 06:24 PM
I really don't mind that you just wrote that... but please, it's BOBcat, not Cat. Different companies completely. Cat does not manufacture anything like the A300 from Bobcat.

Other than that... no horn?!?! Interesting...

ksss
09-23-2004, 01:35 AM
BOBCAT250,

Being a student of all things Bobcat I thought I would pass on some information on the A300. A county waste handling facility near me traded their 95xt for an A300 two years ago. They would typically rebid the contract for a new machine every year. Well they like the low tire wear on the A300 compared to a conventional machine. Problem is they have gone through 4 machines in two years. Seems the knuckles are a major problem. The guy that speced the machine loves it. Bobcat has been replacing the machines at no cost so I guess for now everyone is happy. If using it in a demanding environment, it doesn't sound like you could afford to own one. Believe me, only a municipality would be getting the worn out machines replaced. The average buyer would never see that kind of support (at least here anyway). Have you heard anything like that one these machines?

Tigerotor77W
09-23-2004, 09:40 PM
Umm... by knuckles, do you mean the steerable axles?

I ask because Bobcat actually sent an A220 over to BFI Recycling and they put 5000 hours on it in like two years with no major problems. Of course... what Bobcat decided not to tell wasn't part of the story, but it didn't sound like there were any problems with those axles.

If you're talking about the boom arm pivot point (whichever one), that's a pretty serious concern because 2354698763489561 Bobcat machines use it: the S250, S300, T300, A300, umm, yeah. Same damned platform for four different machines. :rolleyes:

I thought Bobcats were reliable -- I've been hearing a lot in the contrary.

TerraFirma Excavating
09-23-2004, 11:28 PM
When I first saw the all-wheel steering mechanism, I immediately thought of all the possible problems with more moving parts and controls. The all-wheel steering definately looks as if it would be great for tire wear and control damage to the work surface as well. I haven't heard of any problems associated with premature wear from my local dealer.

BobcatS250, I think that overall Bobcat machines are very reliable. I also think that forums like this one let owners that have problems find a place to share their bad experiences so you are more likely to hear many stories of problems. Owners who have no problems are less likely to create a post just to state that they have had no problems and love their machine.

Personally I have just over 400 hours on my 773 with no mechanical problems at all. I had one leaky tire (nail), broken hydraulic quick coupler (my fault) and most recently a broken windshield (also my fault). I was just at the dealership the other day and saw a T190 with only about 800 hours having it's undercarriage worked on. This was because the owner didn't bring it in for a important recall adjustment/repair and ran the machine until something broke. I think Bobcat makes a quality product, stands behind it, and is continually improving machines and designing new ones to meet customer's needs.

SCAG POWER
09-24-2004, 05:38 PM
I was just woundering if any one has heared of the following skid steer. The band would be JCB Wheeled Robot Skid Steer. If so any one using this brand how do you like it? What do you like about it? What don't you like about it?

Modle #170 Or their 190.

Thank you :help:

Tigerotor77W
09-25-2004, 11:40 AM
First -- TerraFirma -- I love Bobcat products. It's going to be difficult for me to shift over to Cat if I end up working for them. I've gotten more help from my Bobcat dealer and Bobcat contact that from Cat (the company). Cat dealer has been great.

Scag -- no experience using the machine, but my first impression is that it's not for every use. I'm sure it'll be great in many cirumstances, but likely not in all circumstances simply because the boom isn't quite optimized for everything. Working on hillsides, for example, may be difficult or tedious due to an inbalance in the machine itself. But that's just my opinion and thought -- I have no idea how they really work. They have great engines in them and wouldn't expect any performance different from any other manufacturer. And they are, after all, a JCB product, so I wouldn't expect reliability issues, either.

Tigerotor77W
10-06-2004, 11:32 PM
New Holland has released the Ls185.B and Ls190.B skid steers with Tier II engines and a redesigned color scheme.

Tigerotor77W
11-23-2004, 12:47 PM
Case's new lineup includes the

420 Skid Steer (40XT)
430 Skid Steer (60XT or 70XT... not sure)
435 Skid Steer (75XT)
445 Skid Steer (85XT)
445CT Skid Steer (tracked version of 445)
450 Skid Steer (90XT)
465 Skid Steer (95XT)

Tigerotor77W
11-26-2004, 02:07 PM
Mmm, it looks like the 445 now shares the same frame as the 435... meaning the 85XT lift arms are now the same as those on the 75XT.

ksss
12-01-2004, 01:18 AM
Bobcat250

You forgot the 440. 2200 pounds of operating capacity, radial lift (kinda like a super 70XT).

Some of the major changes on these machines.

The engines are INVECO. Still a Case/Cummins venture but with European lineage (so I am told). These engines spec higher than the current engines. The 95XT/465 sees a large increase in wheel torque for example. I ran prototype machines with this engine and they did have more noticeable power. This change did not excite me even though the new engines ran out harder, they sounded odd to me (I am very comforted by the familiar rumble of the 4-390). The current engine is awesome and is time proven. We can thank Tier II for this.

Two speed is available on 430 and 440 as is AC on these machines and larger.

There is now an electronic engagement of the aux. hydraulics if you chose.

New high performance hydraulic components

New instrument panel. It runs the length of the uprights instead of the two in the upper left and right corners of the ROPS. The prototype of this was poor. I hope the production models are better. The photos I have seen of them do look better.

The QA has been changed somewhat from 40-70XT current.

There are other small differences from one model to the other I noticed.

Things that I hoped had changed but did not.

The 75XT and 85XT continues to confuse me. The 75 is now available with an altitude compensating turbo. The heavier, more robust 85 gets no turbo.

I thought 2 speed should and would be available from 40 on up.

I am closing a deal now on a 440 with Cab/AC/Ride Control/hydraulic coupler/2 speed. Looks like it will be in the area of 35K. I'll be trading my 70XT. We'll see how it plays out. I would like to run one before buying it but thats not going to happen before year end. I got a price on a CAT 252 similiar equipped except no 2 speed/no ride control/no hydraulic QC/and its a vertical lift not radial, (they did not have a radial lift machine that could match the specs of the 440) but it has a cup holder and CASE controls. Price 33.5K. Not really apples to apples. CAT hasn't really brought these machines up to the level of the competition yet (option wise). Maybe next year.

Tigerotor77W
12-01-2004, 11:07 AM
Yeah, I was wondering where an in-between machine went. The numbers didn't line up quite perfectly so I assumed they dropped the 60XT replacement.

As for that vertical panel -- do you think that's because NH's instrument panel runs vertically? (Does it?)

QA -- do you mean quality assurance?

And if you're looking at a 2,200 ROC machine that's radial, hows about the Bobcat S220? :)

keerym
12-03-2004, 04:11 PM
Where did you get your information on Case Skid Steers? I don't see anything about the new line on your website. I'd like to know more about them, thanks.

Tigerotor77W
12-03-2004, 04:36 PM
Er, the information hasn't really been "released" yet. I'm assuming (ksss check me on this) that the information will be released next quarter?

Travis Followell
12-03-2004, 07:57 PM
I'd have to say my two favorites are IR Bobcat, Case and Cat. IMO they are the best there is.

Diaz Brothers
12-04-2004, 09:47 AM
I just wanted to say that we have on our fleet 2 bobcats a S185 and a 763 there both relatively small but they make some noise, the S185 is faster and stronger than the 763 and it also could reach most of big rigs. for two years i have competed with a CAT skid steer in the ALCA Competitions this year in Columbus Ohio and last year in Jackson Mississippi and let me tell you if i had the budget to buy a CAT skid steer i would but for the meanwhile i love my "Bobcats"

ksss
12-05-2004, 02:53 PM
The information on the new machines came from the CASE dealer. They all can start ordering the new skid steers. CASE's website seems like it is very slow to release new information.

Bobcat250: By QA I meant Quick Attach. I should have wrote QC for Quick Coupler. I thought about demoing the the 220. I have demoed their machines before buying in the past, I just haven't done it this time. The nice thing about demoing the Bobcat is it always makes it easier for me to write the check for the CASE! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I am not sure why they went to the control panel in the upsrights. I voted to leave it as it was but that didn't happen. One interesting note is there is starting to be a merger of components from Case construction to New Holland. The new NH front end loaders have picked up the "cooling cube" and have the same loader arm geometery. The European CASE "R" series back hoe is really a NH backhoe painted power tan, not a real CASE. So it would not surprise me if they are trying to save money by using as many common parts as possible between the skid skid steers.

Tigerotor77W
12-05-2004, 04:21 PM
Travis: yup, they're good machines... somewhat worried about Bobcat, but I think they'll come around.

Diaz -- before going Cat, try out the larger Bobcat.s :-) Too many people will go from a 1750 ROC loader of one brand to a 2500 ROC loader of another and claim that new loader has more power... not really taking into account that the first loader is simply smaller than that new loader.

ksss -- oops, my bad. Should have seen that coming. As for the Case website... yes, it is slow, but none worse than Bobcat's. My signature is going to change very soon. I just have to decide what it will say. As for your continually writing checks to Case, bah, it's just because you're used to the Case machines. bwahahaha... :cough cough: Well maybe the Case will outperform... :looks around; runs:

But yes, NH and Case are starting to vamp up their integration. When the 185.B and 190.B came out, I thought maybe that they used the same basic frame as the XT Cases... apparently not, but there is definitely a great deal of part swapping these days -- not only C and NH, but within the entire company. Cases are rebranded Kobelcos and NH is Fiat-Allis... large dozers are the same. Kinda goes against the initial policy of "we're going to keep the brands differentiated as they have different customer bases." Ah well, not my problem.

Enough of that... back to mundane school work.

Tigerotor77W
12-29-2004, 07:26 PM
http://www.deere.com/en_US/cfd/construction/deere_const/newsroom/conexpo_122104.html

Deere's got compact tracked loaders... finally. Hopefully they'll be thoroughly thought out.

zipp669
01-10-2005, 07:57 PM
I am looking at a new skid steer.
I currently have a 90xt Case which is just a brute. I love it. Got in August.

The other is a 2060 mustang t bar. Got in Oct 2000. It was OK till I got the Case. Now it sits unless needed or just when 2 are running.

Want a new 90xt but the case dealer here in Iowa cannot get a new one and do not want used or an 85xt.
I also hate to lay all the eggs in one basket.
Need diversity in machines for different tasks. also weight as the Case weighs 9000lbs.
Hav e been looking seriously at a 250 Bobcat which the one I wanted did not have 2 speed & that is required.
The dealer also sells JD as is a JD tractor dealer .
Since they have JD skids he asks if I would try a JD skid.
I did try a 260 out last july and thought it was terrible. Could not see the bucket edges.
Could not get in & out at all. Was terrible.
So I am going to try a 325 or 328.
My salesman asked me how much it would take to get me into a JD instead of a Bobcat(which I do not mind). I advised a few thousand less for the same machine/
those who have them, let me know please.
I dont need to here try gehl, NH, Mustang or others. LOL
I am done with mustang.
I just want to know how they improved the 300 JDs over the 200's.
I like to give all machines a chance.
My salesman is not pushy.
I have bought a 4100 jd, a 5205jd, a 4500jd & a 4720jd from him plus numerous 3pt attatchments so he knows his limits with me. I also buy straw from him & followed him to another JD dealer after he left the one in the town I live in.
I have also considered leasing a JD skid if I got one so I did not have to worry about resale if I hated it. Just make it easier to get out from under in the end.
I do not have to run it. I just can tell my guys to run it & stay out of the case. that way I wont go over lease hours. I really do not have to like it myself but would not want to buy if bad.

Please, any input you other users & knowledgable guys can give me would be great.

Tigerotor77W
01-10-2005, 09:10 PM
First question should not be what do we recommend, but what do you do with it (are you a landscaper, farmer, excavation contractor...)? Are you looking to supplement the 90XT or replace it? If you want to replace it, why replace such a new machine?

All your choices are solid and we'll leave you alone if you don't want NH, Gehl, or Mustang. The new machines from each aren't too bad, but if you'd rather not look that way, it's fine.

200 series -> 300 series:

* New engines
* Revamped powertrain
* Slightly different boom arms
* Improved servicability
* Improved cab and controls

That's about it. I think the main impetus of the 300 series was to get away from the history of the 200 series as being somewhat transmission-riddled. Deere's long since solved that problem, but the story still is, "Yeah, well Deere they have bad trannies on the 200 series." Hence a switch to 300 series.

Let us know first, though, what you plan to do. Dig, lift, both.

zipp669
01-10-2005, 11:20 PM
I am not looking to replace the Case.
I do lawncare but very little landscaping.
I do numerous grading and seeding jobs.
I use it like a forklift, lifting pallets of seed & fertilizer.
I pull fence posts with it.
Move snow.
Move dirt.
Did I say I grade.
But i have my case to do those thingfs.
This is more or less a supplement to the Case.
Many times last summer we needed 2 skids.
Did not have 2 but desperatly needed them. This would be more like an upgrade for the Mustang.
The stang was down for about a month last august with Hydro pump probs 2 times & starter. Lost alot on $$$$$$$$$.
Reason for new?
I want new.
Possible lease.
Less breakdowns I hope.
Interest. better rate.
regarding the other brands. Nothing terrible about them.
I prefer not to get a gehl. the boom arms are worse to see around than the JD.
I had thought about a NH- I just bought a new TC45da from a friend who deal NH> It had crossed my mind but at the time I new I did not want a JD so no NH. Are not NH & JD the same still.
Mustang is OK but very $$$ here & the dealer is very pricy. Also in AUgust b4 I bought the Case they had no Stangs with 2 speed.
I have to have 2 speed.
GUys, I really was not even looking at a JD.
I have tried 3 times to get a new 90xt. Even talked to the owner of mid land equip which has 5 or so locations in the midwest. He said when I walked out the last time. I will get you a Case. Have not heard from him since. Was even in there the other day getting a part in the snowstorm & he walked by & said hi & kept going. The sales manager said the same b4 & still have not heard from him.
So the JD dealer in Creston has a s250 & last week I froze in the 90xt with the cold as it is not weather sealed well at all & decided to hell with it & called Steve to get the s250 he has on his lot. Well he tells me he found out it was not 2 speed. so he calls me today & was going to order on in like I want it, even wondered if I wanted a s300.
Then he got into a well Jim, could I interest you in a JD, he has one with cab,heat,ac & foot control, but I like hand but am going to try them. If I could get you one less than the Bobcat would that work. I thought well yes but it had better be $5000 less. He was going to call his territory manager to see how low he could go.
They want to get them out he said.
So here I am thinking am I going to be a sucker or will it be ok.
I was not getting into this to go & check them all out again. I research them usually very well b4 I buy & do my homework.
I was just wanting the pros & cons of the JD.
I guess it also was impulse decision as I moved snow in the skidsteer for 5.5 hours & froze the other day. Usually I am in it 12 to 15 hrs.
So I guess this was going to be for now bought for snow removal.
I do not want to sound like I will not take another brand & be rude in saying so, this was just on of those things thrown on you real fast.
Sorry to rite book but am just looking for some input.
thanks
jim

Tigerotor77W
01-11-2005, 11:42 AM
Take a look at these threads for reviews of various machines:
http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=86615
http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=84413
http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=86324

General comments:
The Deere machine is NOT the same as the NH machine.
I would prefer to take the Deere 325 (or 328) over the S250 IF and ONLY IF I was going to do mostly lifting or snow work. In my opinion, the S250 is a more "feasible" machine in certain respects. (That's an opinion, not fact.)
What's wrong with an 85XT?

Now for some specifics. First, I would get into both machines -- 325 Deere and S250 -- to see how they handle. Don't try foot pedals on the Deere but hand joysticks on the S250; if the Deere you're trying has foot pedals, try the Bobcat with foot pedals. As a note of caution, I believe hand controls are amazing. I personally wouldn't have the coordination to use feet and hands while digging -- and definitely not for snow removal. :) Try each machine on similar tasks -- unloading pallets, wielding a snow blade -- and see which one handles better by your OWN definition.

Disadvantage of Deere machines? Depends on the definition. Some people will find that its vertical lift pattern is disadvantageous. Its maximum reach occurs at the top of the lift cycle; minimum reach is at around mid-height, right where some contractors want a bit MORE reach (for unloading trucks, for example). But because the reach there is least, Deere machines can generally pick up more weight at that height than comparable Bobcat or Case machines, whose maximum reach is usually around mid height (take a look at http://www.bobcat.com/vertical_lift.html for basic idea of how Bobcat vertical lift machines life).

Advantages: Deere machines are simple brutes. Their powertrain isn't all that sophisticated; they simply have a LOT of tractive power. That's great when you're doing heavy dozing or earthmoving. Good hinge pin height, good ground clearance, great visibility with boom arms down (cept to the tires with arms down). Servicability has been improved. Their engines, if they're at all similar to the ones in the predecessors, are LOUD.

Hope that helps somewhat. If it doesn't, let the people here know what else you're seeking.

ksss
01-11-2005, 01:31 PM
Zip,

You may want to look into a CASE 440 which is basically a Super 70XT. If you love you 90XT you'll be very happy with this machine.

Same horepower as 90XT only lighter by about 2500 pounds.

Radial lift same as 90XT only not as complicated

Two speed available as is Heat and AC, and hydraulic quick coupler.

you can actuate the hydraulics with switches on the joy sticks and the traditional foot activation.

440 has 2200 pounds of operating capacity 90XT has 2450 (which I believe is very conservative).

I ordered mine with cab, AC, two speed, hydraulic QC, completely loaded except it does not have high flow, and two buckets for $34K and change.

I am set up with a Heavy lift machine (95XT) and a general purpose machine (70XT) the 70 actually accrues more hours than the 95 does. Probably for the same reason you want a second machine. These big CASE machines I believe are more productive than any skid steer I have ever ran. However, they are big, and heavy and on some jobs it is the equivilent of putting 10 pounds of $hit in a 5 pound bag. Hence the smaller machine. The smaller machines are getting more and more productive and reducing some of the need for the larger machine. I have not seen my 440 yet and it maybe a month or two away. Now that they have a two speed and have corrected some of the issues with the 70XT, I believe it will be a great machine.

Tigerotor77W
01-11-2005, 03:13 PM
Yup. I must be itchin' to get back to school... losing my focus. Relieved someone decided to post some thoughts on this matter, too.

I didn't think of the Case 440 because its specs aren't known to most people (including myself), but it's definitely a viable replacement for the Mustang you have. The Bobcat S220 is in the same boat.

zipp669
01-12-2005, 12:17 AM
thanks for your input.
this is what i want.
I looked for the new info on the new Case skids and cannot find any. I believe a 70 or new # would be fine.
Big thing was I could not find any & at the time last thursday did not want to wait.\
I was tired of being cold. WELL AFTER 2 tubes of caulk on the Case it is a little more bearable and not such a wind tunnel now.
But I am still going to get a new one. Mostly for lifting, a little for digging.
Will also be using a grapple on it. Also thought of getting a blower.
Your help is great and any more would help somemore.
But now I dont think I will make such a snap decision.
I really want a less weight maching that still lifts over 2000lbs.
At 9000 lbs the 90 is sometimes 2 heavy for just hauling around and that is what I meant earlier by diversity.
That is why I have a 4720 58 hp, a 4500 38hp & 4100 20hp john deere tractors and a tc45da new holland 45 hp. They give me hp & size diversity.

Keep it coming with the info guys.

thanks
ZIPP

ksss
01-12-2005, 05:22 PM
The biggest difference I notice between the 70 and 95 is, although they have the same HP, the 95 will vastly out dig and out push the 70 in fact it is not even close. You would have a very similiar experience with your 90 compared to a 70 or a 440. The 440/70Xt at around 7000 pounds is much easier to move around but the extra weight of the 90/95 is what helps give them so much capacity. Moral of the statement is even though they spec. rather closely (440vs90), the difference in performance will be large. If you order one I would get the Ride Control option, well worth the money. Thoughts on the blower: I had an Erskine 73" high flow blower. This is what I found. Unless you are getting a LOT of snow and blowing it is the only practical way of moving it or you have accounts who desire it to be blown and not pushed into piles (and are willing to pay for that capability) it is not a great money maker. Reason is, they are slower than a blade or bucket and it takes more fuel to run them especially if it is wet snow. I don't get enough snow where I am at to justify a blower (a costly mistake on my part). Another 60 miles from here where the snow on the ground is measured in feet it would be another story (during the winter the snow is over 6' deep leading up the houses). My suggestion would be to make sure you can market the blower before you spend the cash for one. Also, if you chose to get one, I would get a high flow blower. They are much faster and throw snow much further, of course you will need a high flow ssl to run it. Good luck.

Tigerotor77W
01-12-2005, 05:47 PM
Take a look at the 435, also, which has an ROC of 2300 pounds if you want to do some lifting work. It's still pretty light and should fit your bill of a good-lifter but light-weight machine pretty well.

Tigerotor77W
02-16-2005, 03:39 PM
http://www.lesspub.com/cgi-bin/site.pl?332&ceNews_newsID=897
and
http://www.aldermans.com/Case/case_ce_new.html

Anthony Orlando
02-18-2005, 10:17 AM
Hey Guys, I just traded my S185 in yesterday. I am getting a s205 with cab nad heat, hand and foot controls, suspension seat, Bobtach,self leveling bucket,68 inch bucket, and strobe. It set me back 26000. Minus my trade of course. Dealer gave me a good deal on mine.For you guys looking for a medium sized machine I think that the s205 would be perfect for you. I use mine mainly for snow removal and I love it. Easy to see out of and easy to operate with hand controls. Plus not to pricey.Hopefully the new engine will add a little grunt for digging this summer.Also does anyone spray anything on their machines for winter work? I have alot of trouble with salt eating my paint on mine. Any ideas on countering that besides washing it? Maybe some kind of light oil mix? Thanks

Tigerotor77W
03-14-2005, 01:47 PM
Specifications and literature are available on the Case website for the 400 series skids.

Tigerotor77W
11-05-2005, 01:20 PM
I've decided I'll post all new product information regarding skids in this thread, to try to minimize the number of new threads about new skid steers.

Bobcat will release (who knows when) the K-series skid steer loaders which have a few new features. First, all the beta-sized machines (S220 and up) will have #120 chains (up from #100), which Bobcat claims is a 38% improvement in strength. Second, Bobcat's fan is now hydraulically driven, which should address the overheating issues somewhat. It is also a demand fan. Third, lift height on the vertical lift machines appears to have increased to 128.8", but I'm not entirely certain on this. Dump reach and height didn't change enough to make me think that the lift height really did change. I may be missing a few, but man, I like Bobcat again. I'm not sure if this mood swinging is healthy, but I do hope either way the overheating issues will be solved... *crosses fingers*

I tried to attach two pdfs, but they are too big. You can view them at Bobcat's web site, however:

http://www.bobcat.com/products/aws/pdf/b-1751_AWS_1005.pdf
and
http://www.bobcat.com/products/ctl/pdf/B-1812_FamilyTrack_1005.pdf

Scag48
11-05-2005, 06:04 PM
I'm willing to bet that Cat's C series skid steers will blow them out of the water. Hydraulic fan should have been put on Bobcat's years ago. I'm sorry but they really aren't innovating anything, they're just trying to catch up with Cat. IMO Bobcat has slacked off in the last 4-5 years thinking they had the market all to themselves. It really is too bad because the more these companies try to compete with each other the better the machines become, end result being a better machine for us the consumer. After Kaiser's rave reviews about Case, we will look into Case next time we purchase, even though dealer support out here is zero to none. Right now I think the real competiton is between Cat and Case, Deere's new machine maybe but I'm not a fan of their new controls.

Squizzy246B
11-05-2005, 06:19 PM
Looks good, but the bit about world wide support breaks me up..Bobcat service is non existent on the West Coast.

Tigerotor77W
11-05-2005, 10:46 PM
Squizzy -- West coast US or West Coast Australia?

And we'll see about Cat... Cat in general as well as Cat products. :)

Squizzy246B
11-06-2005, 08:36 AM
Bobcat, last time I was on the west coast of the US was Seattle about 20 years ago...waitress there called me a funny speaking redneck!.

Tigerotor77W
11-06-2005, 02:45 PM
Aww... :( I hope she meant it as a joke. You're always welcome back here. :)

Tigerotor77W
11-24-2005, 12:57 PM
The rumors about the B-series Volvo skids are true... five models, radial lift path, 45-81 net HP, 1,400 pounds ROC to 2,400 pounds ROC. (Article from Nov. 2005 Compact Equipment Magazine.) Although I would prefer to keep my subjective thoughts out of this thread, I can't scan the article, so if people have questions, I'll do what I can to answer them.

Scag48
11-25-2005, 02:01 AM
I don't know about Volvo, I thihnk the only pieces they produce very well are their excavators and ADT's. I suppose their skids might be worth a look though. Squizzy, Seattle is a tough place. I grew up on the east side of the state where things are a little different and moved to the Seattle area to go to college. I know what you mean, some folks over here just don't have a clue. :rolleyes:

Squizzy246B
11-25-2005, 06:21 AM
I don't know about Volvo, I think the only pieces they produce very well are their excavators and ADT's.

Yep, I think Volvo should stick to building what they do best ...which is...ummm......:rolleyes:

Squizzy, Seattle is a tough place. I grew up on the east side of the state where things are a little different and moved to the Seattle area to go to college. I know what you mean, some folks over here just don't have a clue. :rolleyes:

Lacking in sense of humour somewhat...but friendly enough. When I was there I took a week off and we went for a run down the coast...some place called San...something...bloody big red bridge there...built out of wire of all things.:rolleyes: The hire car was a bit scarey cause everybody was driving on the wrong side of the road:realmad: :dizzy: ...and not only that...the States has the same problem as we have...BLOODY VOLVO DRIVERS!!!

:rolleyes: :D

Tigerotor77W
02-20-2007, 01:55 PM
This thread is apparently the most-viewed thread on the Heavy Equipment part of Lawnsite, so hmm... I thought 2007 was the EPA date for under 100 horsepower. Does that mean we'll be seeing some major re-powers for our beloved machines?