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cenlo
04-26-2004, 01:33 PM
I live in Northern Ontario and have started a "all natural" lawncare company. I will outline my program below and would appreciatte any concerns or advice.
Thanks in advance. Don

Hamons
04-26-2004, 04:49 PM
Well, Here is your program in a nutshell -- am I right?

Spring -- 20#/m (3-1-5) = .06-.02-1.0
June -- 15#/m (10-0-0) = 1.5-00-0
July -- 15#/m (10-0-0) = 1.5-00-0
Fall -- 15#/m(3-1-5) = .45-.01- .75
ANNUAL TOTAL NUTRIENTS = 3.5 - .03 - 1.75


Seems a little low on the potash. Also, 85% of its nitrogen is being applied in the Summer. It's slow release will help that (16 weeks I beleive) but I would still think you wouldn't want that much nitrogen being reelase in early summer.

Do you really need to overseed annually on all lawns?

Is 435.00 a realalistic price in your market? That over $100/app for a lawn that most would price at $30 with a conventional program.

cenlo
04-26-2004, 06:25 PM
My product cost are about $65.00/1000ft2. So basic program for 2500 ft2 is 65x2.5=$162.50+$60.00 aeration+$60.00 to overseed = $282.50 Therefore the program cost @ $435.00 less the $282.50 is $152.50 divided by 4 visits (minimum) gives me about $38.00 labor per visit. This includes the extra labour to deal with the weeds. (also fuel expenses). I understand the price is high, it is approx. double of anyone else. I am the only pesticide free company and I don't want to underprice myself to a point where I can't afford to service my customers properly.

timturf
04-26-2004, 07:15 PM
don't think the organic fert will last longer than 8 weeks!

Way too much n in summer

bioman
04-26-2004, 07:44 PM
Cenlo,

Go to the sponsors page and click my button. Then if you would like give me a phone call.

Thanks,

Ron

cenlo
04-26-2004, 08:38 PM
I appreciate the input. My C.G.M. is 7-1-2 (if that makes a difference)

Hamons
04-26-2004, 09:41 PM
So that would change your program to

Spring -- 20#/m (3-1-5) = .06-.02-1.0
June -- 15#/m (7-1-2) = 1.05-.15-.3
July -- 15#/m (7-1-2) = 1.05-.15-.3
Fall -- 15#/m(3-1-5) = .45-.01- .75
ANNUAL TOTAL NUTRIENTS = 2.6 - .65 - 2.35


Still getting 80% or more of its nitrogen in the summer when it doesn't need to be fed. I see this as the main drawbag to CGM -- poor nutrient timing.

cenlo
04-26-2004, 10:39 PM
Is the 15#'s of cgm twice a season sufficient to control weeds? In year two I plan to use 15#'s 3 times! spring thru summer. Also will the verticutting in the spring stop any weeds?

Hamons
04-26-2004, 11:07 PM
I have no experience or knowledge of CGM's effective controls -- but I have "heard" numbers that were much larger than 15#'s.

How would verticutting remove weeds. If anything -- it will help them grow.

TurfProSTL
04-27-2004, 05:12 AM
Cenlo,
Are you trying to avoid using manure-based products in your program? A similar nutrient program using manure-based products would run about $11.00 - 12.00 / M (excluding weed controls and grass seed).

cenlo
04-27-2004, 06:46 AM
Yes I am trying to avoid manure based products. I have heard that alot of them contain chicken manure (which may carry salmonella)...excuse my spelling!, blood meal (which may carry mad cow disease), human waste, and various other fillers. If I am wrong, let me have it!:(

Tim G
04-27-2004, 08:01 AM
I read a test done recently done with cgm. It the test compost was used with cgm. The more compost used with the same amount of cgm showed better results. Seems the better your organic matter the better cgm works

timturf
04-27-2004, 09:16 AM
CENLO,

hammons and I are questioning so much n in the summer, but we may be off base! What are your daily high's and low's in the months of may, june, july, aug, and sept?
Hammons stated 16 week release with organics, but I believe you will only get 8 weeks of release when soil temp above 50-55 degrees.

2.6lbs of n I believe is still too much for your area, here in C Va, zone 7, our soil temp is above 55 degrees from @ 4/20 till mid to late nov. , and I'm sucessful applying 3.25lbs of n/m using fortified organics. Your season I expect is much shorter!

You are using plant and mineral extracts, so what mineral extracts are you using?

cenlo
04-27-2004, 09:52 AM
The temps here are april 30/48 may 37/60 june 46/69 july 51/75 august 51/72 september 46/64.
The minerals are magnesium sulfate, potassium sulfate, calcium, and iron.
Other than fast growing grass, what are the problems having too much Nitrogen in the summer months.
(by the way it is -1 and snowing here today)

timturf
04-27-2004, 03:13 PM
Cenlo,
Research my notes and 1lbs/m of nitrogen should last upto 12 weeks if 100% organic and soil temps are above 50-55 degrees.

So you start mowing in mid to late may, and quite in early to mid oct?

My normal low/high for today is 48/70 degrees f.

Do you need to apply a pre emerge for crabgrass?

I would think 2 to 2.5 lbs/m of nitrogen would be enough for such a short growing season. Cool season turf in our area receives 66% to 100% of total nitrogen in the fall. We want very little flush growth in summer due to our heat .Our normarl lows in june, july and aug, are very close to your normal high's!

Your last organic nitrogen should be applied 4 to 6 weeks before soil temps drop below 50 degrees! This would very depending on how much n/m you apply.

Excessive n in summer months in my area results in very poor turf!

cenlo
05-03-2004, 09:34 AM
Thanks for all the help guys!