New Biz Advice

[Strawbridge Lawn]

Advice on some startup equipment Please: Plan to be doing 10-15K SQ FT mainly flat residential lawns with fenced back yards. Considering the following:
Mowers Toro Z100-44" 17HP KAW, and a 21" Honda Hydro COMM as primary cutting equip. Could use advice on an alternate to the Z100. Walk-behind/Stand on that has excellent bagging/mulching flexibility, maneuverability and speed in the 32-44" deck range.
Have been looking at Honda hrc713 36", Walkers, Dixie Choppers and Wright Standers.
How are the Honda trimmers (UMK-422LTA) for comm use?
This is a great forum and I thank each of you in advance for your thought and opinions.

I deleted the 2 pages of dead space at the bottom of this post for you. This happened probably because of hitting enter several times trying to get to the bottom to the submit button. Just scroll down to do this next time. Eric

[Edited by Eric ELM on 12-05-2000 at 03:38 PM]

[Mike Felices]

If you plan on bagging mainly go with the Walker. For only 10-15K sq ft. You can go with a 20hp Model T with a 42" GHS deck and the 9.5 bu catcher. If you want to mulch for the most part, and bag for spring and fall clean up my advise is to go with the eX-mark44" LazerZ HP with the 19hp. Kawasaki. Get the mulch kit. This will run about $6,400 or so + $110 for the mulch kit. The Honda puch mower is fine as long as you don't mind puttting donuts in your yards. My advise is get the 44" LazerZ HP with a mulcher and an eX-mark push mower. Thet have a 5.5hp Kawasaki. I wouldn't bother bag unless you charge an extra $10 or more depending on lot size. I don't bag anyone's yard and no one cares. I have a 36" Toro Hydro WB, 15hp Kohler, 5bu. cloth bagger, 2-wheel Pro-One Sulky, and only 180hrs. I MUST SELL before February. I am asking $3,200 obo over $2,500. This would actually work great because you can get into gated areas where as the Lazer won't fit and you get stuck push mowing. I mow about 20-25K sq ft. in about 7 hrs. Thats 15 yards per day.

[Strawbridge Lawn]

Thanks, will have a further look at those models. As far as Walkers go, looks like The Walker C 16HP W/GHS 42" deck looks to be the right size. Anyone with a ball park price for this machine?

[Greenkeepers]

Gary-

The first thing that I would consider is how wide are those gates? And is every lawn that your going to cut have a large enough gate for a w/b mower. For smaller lawns like this I wouldn't worry about getting a rider you can just use the w/b with a sulky. It is cheaper and probably faster.
Great Dane makes a batwing w/b mower that is made especially for gate applications and I think it unfolds into a 52"

As far as trimmers , blowers we use Stihl and a few echo's. I demo'd the honda's and wasn't impressed at all with them. The 4 stroke is nice but I think that they are awkward and bulky. I'll stick to the 2 peppy 2 strokes.

Good luck!!

[Strawbridge Lawn]

Thanks Mike, Stihl factory is down the street so I will likely go that route for both my trimmer and blower units.
Uncertain about what contracts lie ahead and which ones will have gates big enough. The Exmark LZHP44 with th mulch kit and/or the Toro Z100, or Walker C are my primary rider choices right now. Just need to figure which is the best for the price. Appreciate the help thus far. Any additional experience/input is appreciated.

[BUSHMASTER]

hey whats up.......those are definilty goods things to think about......fenced in yards ......here's what i have evolved to..... this set up works in my case it,s not to fastest but,one man show,resis's from 5000 to 20000 square feet, some with fences all largeer back yards than front, good many inclines ...depending on service area in town,more yards than not in town with some sort of turf.
for bagging the way to go is walker ...super job in the winter for clean up's..to reduce the # of bags for a very leafy yard i'll blow out the beds run over the yard with the door open go back the drop the door it cut bags down from 4.5 to 1. grass i'll muclh for four weeks and bag one .....can get onto yards that the walker won't cuse of small gates with a toro 36" gear drive ,very easy to maintain and with a little "megiver" you can keep it running in the feild. it does good for hill sides steep yards the need to be bagged and those ocassoial
clean ups that the grass is over 12".also fits into walk through gate that the 42" walker dosen't, sometimes you can lossen one nut on the gate lift the gate off and fit into a 28" gate with the proper spacing on the poles, and very little hand fitiuge. 21" thats up for grabs something fast
well built 2 cyle and you have your "TRIM MOWER" the toro 21" very little maitaince and if your machnecly inclinded
the last you would need to buy...as well as all your equiptment. in the case of the walker goo with a maintaned
water cooled gas kubota easy to work on and affordable to keep just like an old truck ... like i said not the fastest the most efficient. hand held tools go with one brand name for all.. keeps down travel time when you need parts lowers the number of spare parts you invest in.straight shaft trimmer , hand held hegde trimmer first than extended,
stick edger.and back pack blower i run stihl its easy to find parts if and when you need too. after that you work on areators, ladders , chain saws, ect etc etc ...oh there is a dc in storage that i got a steal on but just don't have the need at the moment... tough quailty built equiptment that you work on will last almost forever. the walker is about to be seven years old right at 1800 hrs i'll get another 2-3000 hours before the engine needs r&r the toro 36" 12.5 kaw has work for 11 years and won't die.....and keeps money in your pocket...but these are just my thoughts at the moment.

[lawrence stone]

The stark reality of the mowing biz is that you need at least two of every machine you use on a daily basis
AT THE JOBSITE.

For the price of one useless 44" ztr without a bagger you could buy:

One 48" Toro/eXmark metro with 14 hp kaw w a jumbo metal bagger and mulch kit.
One 32" Toro/eXmark Metro with a 10.5 Briggs w a Standard size metal bagger and mulch kit.
Two 2 wheel stand on sulkys for above

10-15k lawns are not ZTR friendly.

[Strawbridge Lawn]

lawrence: You make a bery good point especially given the size lawns I will be dealing with. Most lots are housed 8-15K SQ FT with 5-10K actually cuttable so the width and speed gained by a ZTR will prob be sacrificed to some degree. PLUS the 32" will likely eliminate the need for a a trim mower cuz what is left is "wackable". Will definitely
need the bagging, mulching, and a sulky attachment(s) though to meet customer needs. Will concentrate now on the bigger brother. Thanks.

[Paradise Yard Service]

The Honda trimmer is bulky and heavy. You will not like it if you are used to 2-stroke trimmers. I bought a Honda about 6 mos ago and enjoyed the quiet/smokeless 4-stroke but the weight takes it out of you fast. Just bought a new Shindaiwa T-270 and the Honda has been sitting since.
Aloha, PYS



BE KIND TO THE PEOPLE YOU MEET ON THE WAY UP BECAUSE THEY WILL BE THE SAME ONES YOU MEET ON THE WAY DOWN.

[Barkleymut]

The answer is it all depends. Do you have any experience using commercial equipment? I didn't 3 years ago and am glad that I started off with a 36" WB belt drive. Not only is it perfect for gated back yards its also not a bad backup. And since Stone brought it up a backup is nice to have but not necessary when you first start especially if your only mower is new. Another great thing about a 36 is you will likely rarely if ever need a 21". Work on getting the accounts and perfecting your skills with the 36. Then in several months if you are short on time and need a larger mower buy a 60". As for 2 stroke I would buy all Shindaiwa or Redmax. My 2 cents.

[MOW ED]

Gary,
I looked into the Honda 21" Commercial Hydro and found that it is a hell of a mower but not something worth 1100.00.
I am very happy with the Lawnboy 4.5hp 2 cycle gear drive. If you dont have a lot of hill sides to cut then you could get away with a 4 cycle Toro or Lawn boy. Find a slightly used one and spend your bucks on the moneymakers - your area mowers. Good Luck

[Strawbridge Lawn]

Bark & Ed: Thank You, With the advice I have gotten here, I am still refining my needs vs wants with the dreaded budget. Was contemplating the 32 WB, but folks are steering me more towards a 36". The Turf Tracer HP 36" Hydro with the floating Trivantage deck plus a Velke is looking good. The TRIV deck will yield a better cut in addition to the acre/hr issue.
QUES How hard & or time consuming is it to take a 36" off,and put a 52" on a tracer HP?
IRT to trimmers, I am a little guy so I think the Honda is OUT. The Echo PAS 2400 felt good, and has great flexibility with the edger attachment (1 yr comm warranty $395.00).
Will do more homework/cost comparisons on the thers.
I have a 7 yr old Harmony 21" 215 2spd which aside from worn out drive wheels runs awesome so will fleet it up as an as needed trim mower.
Blowers are still an issue unresolved also. What is needed for basic cleanups a Br400? Would a BG85 do?
Again thanks all.

[Mike Felices]

Gary,

I have spoken to other landscapers and the designers of Walker mowers. He told me the 16hp Kohler has dirt injestion problems, so it may die anywhere from 1,100 - 1,600 hours. The 20hp Kohler is what he recomended for me to purchase, NO problems what so ever. Walkers are too expensive though 16hp - $8,100, and 20hp - $8,700. You can't change decks on the eX-mark w/b. If you are going to buy only 1 mower and don't have ot worry about gates, go ahead and get the 44" LazerZ HP with the mulch kit and begger. If not the 36" Turf Tracer HP with the 15hp Kawasaki, mulch kit, and a Pro-Slide (better than a sulky). I was going to purchase a 20hp Walker as of a month ago, but now I am going to purchase a 27hp Kawasaki LC Lazer with a 60" deck. Before you buy, demo the units on a couple of your properties first, this is the best way to find out if it is the right mower for your needs. Buy what you want, not what everyone else tells you to.

[Strawbridge Lawn]

Thanks Mike,
I am going to go with the Turf Tracer HP 36" with either a 15 or 17 KAWA. Jobs in my area are about 40% bag, 40% mulch and 20% side discharge. Will get the mulch kit/blades and bag when applicable.
Will have a look at that pro-slide. Will be in 10-15K housed/fenced lots most of the time so I don't want something that will get in the way all the time, but I don't want to walk 12+ jobs a day in 85-92F summer heat either.

[Scraper]

Gary...I'll second the recommendation on the ProSlide...although if you go over 225 lbs. it might not be a good idea...I absolutely love mine and the thing accents your mower's striping abilities

[Mike Felices]

Gary,
Just incase you don't know the Pro-Slide folds up against the mower when you have to walk behind it. In no way will it get in your way. And the Turf Tracer 36" only comes with a 15hp Kawasaki.

[65hoss]

Gary, don't think that you will mulch some and bag some. Once you get the mulch kit on you will not be willing to take it off to bag a couple of lawns and put it back on to mulch some. I am giving up some customers that want bagged, because I am only going to mulch starting next year. I takes too long to change, and would not even consider it. When I need to bag that is what a back up mower is for.

[scottt]

You need to decide whether you will bag or mulch. You can't do both with the same mower efficiently. Definitely get a pro-slide, much easier on the body. 85-92 degree heat in the summer? I would love to have those kind of temperatures. Where I live in Oklahoma, 100 degree days are not uncommon and 92 is getting kind of chilly.

[Strawbridge Lawn]

Thanks for those replies: Sounds like I need 2 mowers then. 1 set up to discharge and bag, the other to mulch.. I must admit this stinks. My 7 year old 21" Honda I mulch and bag at the same time. True it is not an efficient mulch or bag, but IMO it is the best of both worlds for some does get mulched while (smaller) remnants get bagged. Reduces the amount of emptying also. Just have to adjust to it. Any other suggestions from the forum?
Have not seen or used a power slide, and still not sure it would work in the 8-15K SQ FT housed lots. Anyone with a picture or link?
Board has been a big help. Thank you

[Strawbridge Lawn]

Scott: LOL The issue here in SERN VA is more the humidity which typically brings heat indices up over 100F when the temps are only around 90. Dewpoints 73-76. Sweat like a pig.
GAry

[turfman99]

Walker with 42 inch deck for bagging and the groomed look.

Dane Super Surfer stand on with 48 inch to 52 inch deck.

Sthil for everything 2 cycle.

Toro 21 inch commercial 2 cycle mower. Bulletproof.

Agree with the mulch bag concept. Very difficult to do both with the same machine and maintain efficency.

[MJB]

Gary, I have to agree with whoever said once you start to mulch you want ever want to bag. There are many times when I should bag when conditions are too wet for instance.
I just go over the lawn in the opposite direction, with the deck raised up 1/2 for the 2nd pass. This will hide the extra clippings. Make sure you have the sulky so you don't wear yourself out. I find it takes the same amount of time or less than bagging. Plus I don't have to dump grass.

You'll find it is very hard to find 1 mower that does it all, and does a great job. Exmark gets my vote for mulching. If you do a lot of bagging you'll eventually want a Walker. My 16hp has been a great mower but the engine lifespan is less than 2000 hrs. 20 hp gives you more options like if you ever need a 60" side discharge deck. But it worked great for me when I started, but I was bagging then.

[Strawbridge Lawn]

Thanks Turf/MGB: I guess the equip manufacturers wouldn't make money selling a machine that does it all. In the end it is all about money for them. Got my mind pretty well set on the Exmark 36" hydro with the mulch kit & bag, and probably a Velke. Will just have to switch Bag/mulch stuff at end or before the day starts or make it a scheduling issue vice a during the day flailex.
I will likely get a Stihl blower, but right now the Echo trimmer with the edger attachmnent seems to offer the best bang for the buck. The durability issue will prob have to wait til I put a year on it. Have not heard any adverse replies on it here as yet.
Thanks All. Retiring from the Navy after 20 years in March and looking forward to "sailing" over a sea of green rather than blue from here on out.

[lawrence stone]

Gary there is nearly new 36" toro hdyro with a 2 wheel sulky and a bagging kit in the used equip forum for sale for about half price for all that stuff if brand new.

Thats a good machine to start with. With a 52" deck that
would be a winner. Buy a 52" gear drive 'beater" and do a deck swap (6 need bolts to be removed) between the units.

This way you could have a nice 52" hydro and a 36" beater/trim mower.

[awm]

Do you guys who mulch leaves plan on adding
lime in spring. Is it neccessary or what
TM country