Help making a ZTR decisions

[Havok1327]

I know yet another what "should I buy thread", but please hear me out. I've lurked and searched here for a few days and have gotten some great information on ZTR mowers. I'm pretty green, couldn't resist the pun :), when it comes to lawn mowers so this is what I've gathered in my few days.

My current situation is we have about 1/4 of an acre where our current house sits. We will be moving to 3+ acres of land, minus the house, in the next year or so. What I'd like to get is a ZTR mower that can handle our current yard, but not short change myself and not buy what we need for our future, much larger yard.

After reading through many threads it seems like Country Clipper, Exmark, Slimlicity or Hustler has one product or another that would meet our needs. I was leaning toward the CC but I am having a problem finding a dealer in our area. I liked the joy stick control and easy deck cleaning of it.

The other 3 all have dealers within a few miles of my house. I'd like to spend around $5-$6K on one of these, less would be better of course. But I want something that will last and is relatively easy to maintain.

So I guess I'm looking for suggestions, Pro/Cons of each, for my needs.

The other question I had is if I want to pull a Fertilizer, seed spreader can I do it with any or all of these? How about a small trailer, I know my wife want to do landscaping at the new house so I could see this as an advantage, but not vital to my decision making process.

Thanks for the help.

Matt

[Havok1327]

I visited a few of the local dealers today. I went and looked at the Simplicity Colt 52". Which seemed pretty nice, got to take it for a test ride, I hadn't driven a ZTR mower before, but took to it pretty quickly. The dealer did say it was last years model and that it was aroudn $5400. Again didn't seem too bad a price.

I also went to the ExMark Dealer, they were out of all the ZTR mowers. So he show'd me a Gravely, hadn't read any one them so I was just listen to his sales speal. He show'd me the consumer models of those also around $5K for the 52" model.

Lastly I took a look at the Hustler. The dealer had a large selection, but pricing started at about $6K. So I think those will be out of my price range.

Still no closer to a decision.

[DylanG]

Hustler and Simplicity both have lines for the homeowner that are in the $4000-5000 range. So if that's your price range then your dealer should be able to get those for you.

[Havok1327]

DylanG thanks for the replay.

I was actually able to find a CC dealer in my area after all. So I went a took a look at the Jazee they had in stock. Not to shabby either. It has more of a Consumer look to it and its not as big a machine as the Simplicity I looked at. They joystick was easy to use and I took to it pretty quickly. Pricing was around $4800-$5200 depending on model.

I then went to another ExMark dealer and looked at their consumer line, the Lazer CT I believe. Now these looked like a commercial mower, I didn't get to drive one, but I was told that if I could give them a day or two I could. So I'll probably head back and take a test ride. These start at $4999 and $5399 again depending on model, engine, cut etc.

So I think I've narrowed it down to these two dealers and machines. Now I just need to decide on cut size and engine.

[DylanG]

I had to draw the line at $5000. I went into this expecting to spend $2000 on a lawn tractor. Maybe I don't know what to look for but I didn't see an advantage to the Exmark over the Hustler FasTrak and Simplicity Consumer Z which were my final choices. For $5000 I could get a 20 HP twin engine and 50" deck in those lines. With Exmark that would only get me a 17 HP single cylinder engine and smaller deck.

I ended up buying the FasTrak 20/52 yesterday. The deciding factor was that it was available immediately and the Simplicity wouldn't be in stock at my dealer for 3 weeks. But I was leaning towards the Hustler anyway because of it's Honda engine and more heavy duty deck. On the other and, the Simplicity has a stronger and more servicable transmission. I was kind of glad the availability made the decision for me since I could see no other rational way to choose one over the other.

Country Clipper was never an option for me since there is no dealer nearby.

[abospaum]

Last fall I bought the Fastrak 20/52 for $4500 in Elkton, MD. It's been great so far having cut my mowing time by more than half.

I almost wish that I went for the full size Z which the dealer would have sold for $5200 with 23hp Kawasaki and 52" deck. This mower goes 11mph and is solidly built with top access to the mower deck for cleaning. I don't know if I could have handled the extra speed because by yard isn't very even and the fastrak bounces me out of the seat as it is. This would have also meant a adjustable, suspension seat with armrests. And most importantly a significantly faster blade tip speed meaning a cleaner cut.

Most dealers weren't close to this price but this guy was very up front and gave a great price right away.

[DylanG]

Wow. Those are great prices. I just paid 5000 for the same FasTrak. My dealer wouldn't go any lower because he said he'd have no problem selling it at that price. I guess the good deals are in the fall but I couldn't wait.

I would have been all over that MiniZ for 5200. That's like 2000 below MSRP.

From what I can tell, the big difference with the FasTrak vs. the Mini Z or Exmark Lazer CT is the FasTrak has the less durable and less servicable IZT tranmission. The IZT used to be completely sealed and required no maintenance. It has been changed in recent models and the manual specifies a 2 year maintenance schedule for serial numbers XXX and up. I assume that this is an improvement in some way but I don't know the specifics. The Hustler rep on this board said the IZT should last 10-15 years for mowing up to 5 acres a week.

[JHE]

I was in the same situation while shopping for a mower (go completely residential or get a commercial). I ended up breaking my shopping into four main areas.

I started to analyze the engine and determine how much power I would need. With 3 acres I am not bagging so would like to mulch a little. Sounds like running double blades or getting the mulching blades would do the trick. So I read some threads in here about mulching and picked the horse power I needed. I also listened to the types of engines everyone liked. The 1st place winner is the Kawasaki with the Kohler being a very close runner up (except in the higher 27hp range where Kohler is the favorite). The Honda appears to need some more engineering so I stayed away from that motor.

Then I went to the drive system (hydraulics and wheel pumps). I am on a hill so control is the most important feature for me. Mowers with some sort if independent suspension are a plus in this situation but so is the way the drive system works. I determined that you need something very smooth or else you run the risk of locking up a wheel and white nuckling the mower to the bottom of the hill. From what I understand, most homeowner models drives are different that the commercial ones ( I do not know the specifics but they are a little more jerky). Once I determined what I wanted for control I looked at the actual make up of the components - how heavy duty are they. I stopped by some dealers and checked out the size of the pumps, how they were cooled, etc. This is important for me because I will keep equipment for 20-30 years+. In each range of mower (ie. homeowner vs. small commercial vs. large commercial) I found the components to be about the same quality. When you read threads from all of these guys in here you never here them talk about how exmarks wheel pumps beat Hustlers or beat Ferris, etc. One thing that I determined is that going from residential to commercial mower you get a much better drive system. I know that some of the residential manufacturers are using the commercial components in their mowers but you have to ask the question.

Next, I went to the deck. One of the reasons that I am looking at a new mower is because my 50" stamped Gravely deck is rusting out (after around 25 years of service). I know that I want the heaviest gage deck that I can get so I put that on my list and factored it into my decision. I was also worried about the spindles. The heavier the spindles the more years of service I can get out of them. Again, read and ask the questions. Some homeowner models have the heavy spindles and some do not. Also, as you will learn, size does matter. Alot of folks buy smaller decks (48-50" range) because they have to get through gates, between trees, or around tight landscaping spots, near the pool, etc. I do not have any tight spots so I could get a bigger deck. Reading this site no one had a strong opinion about going from a 50" to a 60" deck. What is an extra 8" over the course of the cut but a couple of extra stripes. But my neighbor solidified it for me. He has an Exmark with a 60" deck. When I asked him what he thought (he is a retired engineer) he got a pencil out, did some math, and determined that when you consider the overlap (no one really gets 50" out of each stripe) a 60" deck does 15% more cutting. When one of the biggest reasons for looking at ZTR's is time savings - 15% matters.

Finally, I went to price. Certainly having a 72" Ferris with a diesel motor would satisfy all of my concerns. But I am not throwing down 14K to cut my lawn. That is like 14 years of lawn service to me. Figure out what you can afford because asking questions about a $8,500 machine when you have $6,000 in you pocket is a waste of your time and the dealers time.

Now you are asking what the heck did you buy? After all of this work (and I mean hours of research) I narrowed my decision down to two mowers - the Ferris 3000is and the Hustler Z. Both are commercial units in the $7,000+ price range. My choices were, to some degree, directed by what dealers I had locally and how I was treated when I walked through the door (I refuse to go to one dealership - I went in to ask some questions about a mower, they were not in a rush to get to me (I don't do this commercially and was on my lunch time) and answered my questions like I was an idiot. After I left pissed off I researched the questions myself and figured out that they really were not that stupid. At another dealer the guy closed at 6:00. I got there at 5:50 and he stayed open until 7:00 to answer all of my questions). The 3000is is a sweet machine. And, the one I was looking at was a leftover that the guy wants $7,500 for. If you have not shopped for a Ferris that is a sweet deal and the IS would certainly help on the hills.

But in the end of the day I went with Hustler Z, 25 hp Kawasaki, 60" deck and a suspension seat (My gravely has a spring suspension and my guts hurt after 3 hours of cutting the grass on that - I can't imagine cutting the grass 2-3x faster without some type of spring or suspension seat). They have a sale going on until the end of May and there prices are really competitive. Since I am going to own the mower for 30 years I had to ask which company was going to be around that long and which company would be putting more units in the market so that I would have to worry less about parts. Right now Hustler (in my opinion) is doing a better job marketing, selling and adapting their mower to the market place. Sorry Ferris!

For all of you homeowners ready to make a purchase I strongly advise you to take Hustler into consideration. The homeowner version (Fasttrack) is a nice machine for around $4,600. The mini-Z (with the commercial components) is around $5,800 with a 25 Kawasaki and a 52" deck. but act before the end of May. Oh, and if you are still reading you deserve this tip - If you live near Delaware and can pick the mower up yourself buy here - you will pay no sales tax.

[abospaum]

JHE,

I live in Delaware but found that American Service Center in Elkton was much more reasonable on pricing than any of the other Hustler dealers in DE.

Also since I live here and had him delivery I still avoided taxes.

[JHE]

Abospaum - American Service Center is where I bought my Huslter. They did the best on price and I think I will have a better time with them on the service end of it. I also live in Delaware and they are delivering it to my house so that I do not have to pay the taxes. Unfortunately, as far as I can tell, if you do not live in Delaware the only way to get the tax free price is to buy from a Delaware dealer. American Service Center may be able to meet that price but it is up to each individual to do their own shopping!

[abospaum]

When I bought my Fastrak they had a refund going and ASC gave the full amount to me without my even having to ask.

Two closer dealers wanted more for delivery and about $200-$300 more for the mower.

I haven't had any major service issues yet other than what I've done myself.

[dirtylawndry]

I went also researched and analyzed every decent ZTR company before going to Hustler. I wanted an Exmark HP, but the price was too high. Not that it wasn't worth it, but the dealers just did NOT want to discount them at all. In a world of 10-30% discounts on just about everything we buy, it made the Exmark brand too expensive. I then looked at Country Clipper, and liked what they had, but the Jazzee One was too "flimsy" and the Charger nice, but again too expensive...no real discounts there. The Jazzee One had a 25% or so discount from the factory, but frankly, it looked too much like a toy, and felt rough to ride and the hydraulics were noisy and jerky. Not smooth. Next I looked at Scag's tiger cubs. These were nice and steeply discounted to 5995. 19/48 model. But hated that awful orange color, and did not care for the dealer. And, started reading the complaints from other Tiger Cub owners on this site. So, finally after hearing all the rave reviews on Hustler, looked at them. I wanted a Mini Z 23/52....and the discount prices quoted was 6250. Before sales tax. Evidently Hustler is running a rebate for dealers where they can knock 1300 of the list price. And the dealers I talked to, would go down a little more than that. When I finally ordered, I was told that the 52 deck is in such high demand, that it was not available from the distributor...and that they did not know when I would be able to get one. Then, the dealer called me back and told me that there was a demo model of the SUPER Mini Z available....25/52. And would be just a few hundred more than a brand new Mini Z. I jumped on it, had it delivered to the house, and the mower looked brand new. No wear and tear, and came with full warranty. I just did my 2.25 acres today for the first time ever riding one of these, and I have 15-20% grades on my property. I took me only one hour to do all of it, and it looks great. My wife looked out the bedroom window, and just marvelled at how well that Hustler cut the lawn. It would take our lawn service 3.5 hours to cut with a Scag 48 and Velke. This mower will pay for itself in about 2 years, and I love riding it. It very high quality, and heavy duty all around....full commercial quality, and most likely overkill for my lawn, but it's nothing short of a gokart with cutting blades, and my wife and I are now fighting over who gets to cut the lawn...LOL.

The rebate program was supposed to end on May 31, but has been extended through June. I suggest you try out Hustler. They look great, Racing Yellow, are stylish (if that matters), have alloy wheels rather than stamped steel, and are heavy duty, and extremely well built. My dealer is also great, in that he took the time to answer my questions and do the footwork, rather than acting disinterested. I bought the Super Mini Z sight unseen, without even meeting the dealer before he delivered it personally (no charge), and have no regrets. Buyer's regret is not uncommon on high ticket items. Count me, one very happy Super Mini Z owner.

Hustler....Quality all the way.

And that's important when you're spending a large sum of hard earned money.

[MikeLT1Z28]

have you considered the exmark lazer ct? it's for small commercial operations and upscale home owners. available in a 44" or 48" deck with an 18hp kohler engine or a 19hp kawasaki for the 48" or 52". i think they list for about 4800 or so here in memphis, with the 18hp.

http://www.exmark.com/LazerZCT.htm

[JHE]

Had my new Hustler Z (25 Kawasaki/60") delivered last week. Took me about 1 1/4 hours to cut a lawn that took 3+ on my old gravely tractor with a 50" deck. I love this friggin thing. For all of you homeowners that are thinking about a new mower please go zero turn - after cutting this lawn for 5 years I am wondering why I did not do this sooner. And, after all of my research I put my $ on Hustler - great product at a great price. Wish I got a hat because this John Deere lover at work is pissing me off with the "you didn't even get a hat" thing.

[Havok1327]

Well after some debate I decided to go the the Jazee Two from Country Clipper 20/48. I looked at the Exmark CT, Simplicity, and Hustler line, but I was really looking for something less commercial looking. Since my wife will be using this as well I wanted something she'd be comfortable with.

The CC seemed to fit the bill, it's nicely sized and cuts great. I went from around 1.5 hours to just over 15 minutes to cut our yard. We have 1 small slope in back and it seemed to handle that just fine as well.

Overall I'm very happy with the purchase, although I did have to drive an hour to the dealer. But I'm glad I did the dealer was top notch great customer service. The service manager spent 45 going over the mower with me and answered all my questions. If you live in the Hannibal MO area check out Grand View Nursery.

Thanks to everyone who replied and put their 2 cents in!

[mowhigh]

dirtylawndry, what was the dealer quoting you on the Charger (which I also liked)? Was able to get the 23hp/52" for just over $5800 (was told he was giving me the engine mfg rebate) but not sure if I could have done better still. The flip-up deck is great, but heavy; am awaiting the mulching kit (while all our recent rain starts to dry out).

[cowabunga]

Hey mowhigh
I paid the same for my Charger 23/52 as you did.
Please give us a report on the mulch kit as soon as you get yours.

[dirtylawndry]

>> dirtylawndry, what was the dealer quoting you on the Charger (which I also liked)? Was able to get the 23hp/52" for just over $5800 (was told he was giving me the engine mfg rebate) but not sure if I could have done better still.<<

The dealer had the Charger on display, and it was on sale for 6299. List if I remember right was about 6900 or so. I asked him if that was the best he could do, and he said that was it. So, 6299 or 6300 was the price. Add on the sales tax, and it gets even more expensive. As nice as they are, I decided to shop around, and am glad I did. Competition creates lower prices. There were more Hustler dealers in my area. I think there's only one Country Clipper dealer in my area, hence the lack of discounts.

I think you got a good deal. I liked the Charger, it's solid build, and the ultra convenient lift up deck.

[cdolor]

I also live in Elkton, MD and did much shopping around for a Fastrak 20/52. I found that even with tax no one could get close to American Service Center's price. I hooked up with Marty there and paid $4500. for mine plus $225 for tax. In Delaware the unit was $5200.

Oh yea mine had hour meter, and seat springs installed. I did pay extra for the light kit ($55).

This is one great machine I cut 3 1/2 acres in 1 hour 25 minutes, and it used to take about 3 1/2 hours on a cub cadet 50" deck.

You won't be sorry with Hustler.
Chuck

[mowhigh]

Cowabunga, sorry for the delay, but it's been raining almost non-stop and I had to cut back my foot-tall stuff before installing the mulch kit. The blades are pretty impressive (similar to gators). Should finally get to it by the end of the week and give a report.

[bantam]

Actually, they are gator blades.

[RichmondR]

Guys, I am considering either a Hustler 20hp Fastrack or a 23 hp Mini Z 52". One concern I have, just looking at the specs., is the deck depth of the Hustler models (4 inches) compared with the deck depth on some of the competition (Scag, Exmark, JD) at 5 inches +. I plan on mulching -- are you satisfied with the size of clippings, and do you have a mulching attachment? I'm just a bit concerned that mulching may work better on a deeper deck, but I dont really understand the science involved.

Thanks for any observations you can offer -- I plan on a demo, but your input is appreciated.

Rich

[mowhigh]

I'm not surprised that the FasTrak is shallower, but I thought the commercial Hustlers would have a deeper deck (the EverRide Warrior deck tapers up to 8"). I'll be using the mulching kit (Country Clipper Charger) this week, but have already noticed the benefits of the taller deck: with the deck running along my sidewalks and driveways, the increased lift will suck in a lot of the taller and bent over grass blades (enough to allow me to skip trimming/edging until the next mowing).

[SAKummer]

I too am looking for similar qualities in a ZTR. Are you happy with your decision HAVOC? I just drove a CC 17/48 and liked the responsiveness, but am a little concerned about the 17 HP engine, maybe a little under powered for my 2+ acres.
I have also looked at the Simplicity ZT2050 and the Cub Z-FORCE 48, does anyone have any input one any of these machines? $$ is a driving force in my decision, but I also don't want to be shopping for a new machine in 3-4 years. All three machines are currently available in the $4000-4500 range and I'm not convinced I can justify the added 50% for a commercial-type unit.
Any information you can provide would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Scott

[notforprofit]

SAKummer-

I was just recently in the markey for a ztr. I wound up going with a full commercial unit (Yazoo/Kees 2352). But I looked at the units you mentioned. The Cub has a heavy gauge stamped deck. It's not the John Deere 7 gauge, but still the heaviest I saw on a residential type unit. The Simplicity Has a thinner gauge deck, but since you aren't using this commercially and I assume you will be the one using this, paying for this, and therefore NOT ABUSING this- it shouldn't really be that big of an issue. The deck on the Simplicity is the same one that has been used on their tractors for years and has earned a reputation for having a very good cut. Another plus for the Simplicity, and a BIG one, is that it uses a two pump and wheel motor system. This is the same system used on most commercial mowers. This system is far more heavy duty than the typical dual hydrostatic drives found on most residential units. To my knowledge, Simplicity is the only manufacturer doing this on their residentials.
For me it came down to the Simplicity unit you spoke of or a full commercial unit. I bit the bullet and went the commercial route. By the way, if you found the Simplicity fo $4500 that's a great price- the best I found was $4799. Good luck in your decision.
P.S. This may be dificult for a residential unit, but if you can, try to demo each unit. At least try to drive and use them at the dealer.

[SAKummer]

notforprofit,

Thank you for your input. I have been leaning towards the Simplicity and the price seems right ($4,499). I have muddied the water today by looking at the Fastrak 20/52. I'm a fan of the Honda engine and it is available for $4,764, so the price is comparable.

After reading many postings, the Fastrak series seems to be popular with a good portion of this crowd. Does anyone have an opinion about the SImplicuty 2050 versus the FasTrak 2052?

Thanks in advance for your help.

[abospaum]

You're comparing a B&S engine to a Honda is one thing.

I believe that the Fastrak is a little faster with greater blade tip speed. The Fastrak is also built much more sturdy.

The Fastrak is built like a commercial mower. There are a number of other commercial mowers such as the Ariens, Cub Cadet, Toro Timesaver, etc. but these mowers are not as good.

Did you drive each of these mowers.

[SAKummer]

abospaum,

I have driven the Simplicity and plan on trying the FasTrak on Saturday. In reviewing the pics & specs on the respective websites, my untrained eye has noticed what appears to be a beefer frame and overall construction on the FasTrak.

Thanks for the info on the tip speed. This is one question I have been asking, but have been surprised at the inability of most to answer.

Thanks again!

[notforprofit]

SAKummer-

As far as blade tip speed goes, The simplicity #'S are: zt1844- 16,100 fpm ; ZT2050- 18,200 fpm. The Hustler Fastrak is: 18/44- 17,100 fpm ; 20/52- 15,500 fpm. The Hustler does have a kit you can get that will up the blade speed. Check the Hustler forum. It's a post from about a month ago.

The Hustler is beefy-framed, but I think the Simplicity is just as "beefy" and rode a bit better to me. The Simplicity has larger rear tires and this combined with the suspension front end seemed to make a difference. I liked the Hustlers welded deck, but you being the driver/owner/maintenance person for the machine, I doubt durability will be an issue with either one. The Hustler had some problems last year with their IZT transmissions ( again, see posts in Hustler forum or do search on "Fastrak") however, Hustler went to a C-IZT style transmission this year which has ann added high-pressure hydraulic pump of some type which suposedly circulates the fluid better and runs cooler.
I talked to techs directly at both companies. Both were EXCELLENT to deal with. PM me if you would like their names and contact numbers. Good luck in your search.

[notforprofit]

SAKummmer-

P.S. As far as the Briggs engine on the Simplicity. Note it's a VANGUARD. I believe these are a large cut above the typical briggs engine. I have one on a Deutz-Allis mower that is now pushing 20 years old. The best part of the mower IS that engine. Again, do a search on the Vanguard and I think you will see almost all favorable responses from those that actually owned and used one.

[mowhigh]

The JAZee will more than handle your 2 acres (you can always go to the 19/20 hp Kawi/Kohler options, if you insist). The Vanguard is the only B&S worth considering, but I'd still go with Kawi or Kohler. The JAZee deck and blade tip speed (19,500 fpm) are true commercial grade. I demoed a 19/48 model for 2 weeks and was amazed how well it handled my 2-3 ft overgrowth in my back section (which I had given up mowing with my old JD). The flip-up deck makes for convenient clean-up and the single joystick control will have your wife, kids and neigbors clammering to do the mowing - - right, Havok? Good luck...

[Havok1327]

I'll have to echo what mowhigh is saying. I'm very happy with the Jazee2 I got. I've mowed 4 times now and the time saving to me is invaluable. It cuts great, is easy to operate, the joystick works very well, and is simple enough the my wife has no problems using it. If I do have one complaint its the ride, Its a bit bouncy on rough terrain, but heck I bought a mower not a BMW.

I didn't get the mulching blades and to be honest I probably won't. It does such a great job with the grass that I haven't had to rake at all.

[mowhigh]

Havok, try reducing your tire pressure. Even with the Charger's pivoting front axle, I noticed more of a difference by going to 9 psi vs the 12 recommended. You can also add a third spring under your seat (I found an extra spring attached to the frame; assume it's the same with the JAZeeTwo).

[mowhigh]

I finally got around to installing and trying the mulching kit. I started a new thread for this review, since it's different than the original topic.

[wvbill]

Originally posted by mowhigh
.... You can also add a third spring under your seat (I found an extra spring attached to the frame; assume it's the same with the JAZeeTwo).

mowhigh: Thanks for the hint on the third spring. I saw it back there last night when I was getting ready for my first mowing and thought "wonder what that's for - I'll check it out later." There's no mention of it in my owner's manual.

I really like my JAZee.

WVBill