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View Full Version : Ride on spreader/sprayer question


Decali
05-17-2004, 05:16 PM
I would like to make the leap to an easier system for applications and a ride on seems to be the answer. My concern is that I don't want to have to completely change my program or products in order to accomplish this.

Can liquid preemergent products (specifically pendimethalin and simizine) be sprayed without phytotoxicity, staining, or damage to the pump.

I know that granular products are an option but I'm dealing with warm season grasses that don't need fertilization during some of the times my preemergents are applied.

Also, can ester and amine 2 and 3 way products be used without damage to turf. For some reason I'm just not comfortable with the high concentration of a.i. with the low volume sprayers.

Thanks.

billyc
05-17-2004, 11:05 PM
If you are going to spray wetable powders, you need to look at a Z-Spray. We swithed from the perma green and my only regret is we did'nt do it sooner. A lot more capacity and versitility in the spray system. The thing is built like a tank.

James Cormier
05-19-2004, 07:14 PM
The amount of water as a carrier is a issue with some material when considering these low volume sprayer spreaders.

I think as these machines get more popular the chemical companies will change their labels and rates.

I think it comes down to a trial and error with deciding on how well some products work,

Example would be Acclaim extra, A whole bunch of people told me " don't spray it through the PG, way to little water as a carrier, it wont work and will be a waste of money"

Well I ignored the advise and did it anyway, it works great, I get awesome results with the machine.

All I've sprayed with mine is confront, and acclaim and I get awesome results from those 2 products.

GREEN OASIS
05-19-2004, 11:35 PM
i know that crabgrass season is coming up and i would like to find out who has had good success with drive and what types of rates they are using in the permagreen unit / which nozzles you are using is required information to follow rates advise
i hydroseed lawns all year long but know that most lawns from may 1 to july 1 st will have lots of crabgrass in them and plan on spraying quite a few of them with drive....
i want to start using the pg to do so >>>>

MrBarefoot
05-20-2004, 07:57 AM
I have been spraying speedzone out of my PG, and I think I had better results when I sprayed by hand.

Has anyone else seen a difference between spraying by hand at a higher volume, and the low volume PG approach.

And since I know I will be asked, the sprayer is properly calibrated, and the mix is 1.4 oz/1000 sq/ft, with no spreader sticker.

scottt
05-20-2004, 02:19 PM
MrBarefoot,
I use 1 oz of speedzone per k with a spreader sticker and have had the same results as a backpack. Try using a sticker and that should help a lot. The only area I have problems with are the first two inches right along the curbline. I use the hand bottle there.

Decali,
I sprayed pendimethalin and dimension out of my PG this year with no problems. I will probably switch to all granular next year though.

MrBarefoot
05-20-2004, 03:10 PM
"I use 1 oz of speedzone per k with a spreader sticker and have had the same results as a backpack."

Cool, do you use the regular Lesco spreader sticker?

thanks

James Cormier
05-20-2004, 04:52 PM
i have not used speedzone, but I get awsome results with confront out of my pg, I mix .74 oz per K,

I assume you guys are spraying speedzone in cool season turf?

Is it a 2,4-d product?

Whats your target weed?

I just started today with bent grass select, cost is way cheaper then confront, hopefully it works, that is mixed at 1.5oz per K

I never considered using a sticker with my machine just cause its such a small dropplet size, dosnt seem like it would need it.

lawnservice
05-20-2004, 05:15 PM
we have had problems with pluged up jet tees when we have added sticker into the PG...not so much the day its mixed, but the following day. just seems to gum-up

MrBarefoot
05-20-2004, 06:07 PM
Originally posted by James Cormier
i have not used speedzone, but I get awsome results with confront out of my pg, I mix .74 oz per K,

I assume you guys are spraying speedzone in cool season turf?

Is it a 2,4-d product?

Whats your target weed?

Speedzone is labeled for use up to 90 degree's, and for the very low volume rates the PG sprays. I was planning on using it as my primary weed control product for the season.

It does have 2, 4-D in it, as well as MCPP and Dicamba and Carfentrazone. The product is fast acting and is allegedly low oder.

My personal target weed are all the usual suspects, everything from Black Medic to Wild Violets. Speedzone claims to knock violets out.

James Cormier
05-20-2004, 06:50 PM
speedzone
Yeh, i did a google on it, seems like a neat idea.

What are you paying per gallon?

Confront went from 109gal in 03 to 117 this year, bent select is 40 per gallon.

MrBarefoot
05-20-2004, 10:49 PM
Originally posted by James Cormier
speedzone...

What are you paying per gallon?

Confront went from 109gal in 03 to 117 this year, bent select is 40 per gallon.

I am paying about $60.00 a gallon. But I purchase by the 5 gallon case and that helps a little.

I explored the 30 gallon drum idea, but that is more then I need... for now.

If people are getting good control at 1oz /1000 sq/ft with a little sticker in it, that would bring the price per 1000 down a lot.

scottt
05-21-2004, 08:08 PM
I have never had a problem with sticker clogging the nozzles. Are you using too much? With such a small droplet size a sticker may not be needed, but old habits die hard.
James,
We use speedzone until temps reach 75 on bermuda, zoysia and fescue. Cost is just over $50 a gallon here. Target weeds are dandelion, clover, henbit, chickweed, violets and many other broadleafs. It is the best cool season herbicide I have found, but is too expensive to use exclusively. We switch to Trimec 992 at under $25 a gallon with warmer temps.

grassguy_
05-21-2004, 10:14 PM
I have used the Carfentrazone with both Horsepower and Three-way and have had excellent control, especially on ground Ivy and clovers. Plus A little cheaper to mix than having to buy in the Speedzone formula.

EJK2352
05-22-2004, 01:03 PM
grassguy,
Are you using Carfentrazone (FMC Quicksilver) in a Permagreen?
What mix rate are you using? I tried some last year with mixed results. Does you PG spray at the rate of 1 quart or 1 pint per K?
I used Speedzone last fall and had excellent control. I like everything about the Speedzone except the price. Quicksilver mixed w/ a 3 way would be a lower priced alternative, if I could match the performance of the Speedzone.

EJK2352
06-04-2004, 12:50 AM
TTT
Where are you grassguy?????????

scweedman
06-04-2004, 07:31 AM
I got some info on speed zone. Thinking about using it
Right now i use bentgrass select and add quicksilver.
Lesco says its the same but it looks like there is more
in speedzone than 24d and quicksiver.
What are some of you paying for it?

MrBarefoot
06-04-2004, 04:30 PM
Originally posted by scweedman
I got some info on speed zone. ....

What are some of you paying for it?

I have just found it for as little as $112.00 a 2.5 gallon jug. Most places I have seen it run about $135 for the 2.5 gallons.

Speedzone is 2,4-D, MCPP, Dicamba and Carfentrazone. Another way to say that would be "any generic three- way plus quicksilver".

scottt
06-04-2004, 11:40 PM
For those of you saying quicksilver is cheaper, please post how much you are paying and what rate you are using. I have run the numbers before and speedzone was quite a bit cheaper. Maybe I am missing something?

MrBarefoot
06-05-2004, 07:54 AM
Originally posted by scottt
For those of you saying quicksilver is cheaper, please post how much you are paying and what rate you are using. I have run the numbers before and speedzone was quite a bit cheaper. Maybe I am missing something?

Frankly, I agree with you.

According to my math, Speedzone would cost $0.48 /1000 sq/ft at 1.3 oz/1000 sq/ft.

A typical 3-way lets take Trimec 992 and even adjusting the dose down to .9 oz/1000 sq/ft to match the reduced load found in Speedzone, cost here is $0.15 1000 sq/ft. QuickSilver is expensive and available here for $0.34 1000/sq/ft. That brings the total cost to $0.49 1000 sq/ft plus you have the extra work of mixing the products and accepting the possibility of human error and making a bad mix.

Perhaps a better way (especial for the Perma green owners) would be to use 3-way generally and then add Quick silver only on lawns that need it.

All costs are based on what is available to me in my area, so your prices may vary.
.

LwnmwrMan22
06-05-2004, 08:02 AM
I've got a question for all of you...

How come no one here runs Momentum, or at least or mention of it? Does it just come down to a cost issue for most of you?

It runs me .70 / 1000 at 2 pints in my PG with the sticker included.

Just wondering if it just comes down to cost with you guys, or if there's other "issues" that you all are concerned with?

MrBarefoot
06-05-2004, 01:15 PM
Originally posted by LwnmwrMan22
I've got a question for all of you...

How come no one here runs Momentum, or at least or mention of it? Does it just come down to a cost issue for most of you?

Just wondering if it just comes down to cost with you guys, or if there's other "issues" that you all are concerned with?

I keep a close eye on my product costs, as any good company owner does, and cost is a significant consideration but...

I can only answer for myself, and in my case I started this year with the plan of using Momentum in my PG. And I was not satisfied with the control I was getting.

This came as a surprise to me since I have been using Momentum for the last two years when I sprayed by hand (at 1.2 oz in a 1/2 gallon H2O per1000 and sticker). The results spraying by hand have always been great. But when I moved to the PG this year it was not working as well.

I don't know if it was the reduced volume (one quart per 1000 vs a half gallon) or if there was some other factor that I don't understand. But what was evident is that the weed control effect was not as good. Before I switched, I would hand spray weedy lawns after I ferted them with the PG. I just was not confident that Momentum with the PG would work.

Speedzone is more expensive then Momentum in this area. So I didn't make the switch lightly, and I was worried that control might still be a problem. After a few weeks of Speedzone, I was getting the control with the Perma-green, that I was used to with Momentum by hand.

Additionally, Speedzone has a "Caution" warning label, where Momentum has a "Danger", and Speedzone is labeled for the ultra low volume of .1 gallons per 1000 where Momentum is label for at least 1/2 gallon per 1000. Meaning if you are using with a perma green you are breaking the law by not following the label.

I can get Momentum for $.28 a 1000 sq/ft, but I pay $.48 1000 sq/ft for Speedzone because I have confidence that it works, and I can operate on label. So in my case, cost was not the most important factor in my product selection.

LwnmwrMan22
06-05-2004, 03:13 PM
I stand corrected. My math was wrong earlier about .70 / 1000. It is .30 / 1000.

I was using 2.5 gal. prices and didn't do my breakdown to oz right.

I used Momentum this year in my Ultra, I had better results than in the old Lesco 200 gal. sprayer. Couldn't believe the results in fact.

I agree about the "caution" vs. "danger". Don't know what it is, even though you do everything "right", it's still in the back of your mind or something that you'd rather be using the "caution".

"Low Volume Broadcast Applications: Apply 3 to 4 pints of LESCO Momentum Premium Selective Herbicide in
enough water to deliver from 5 to 40 gallons of total spray mixture per acre. Use low pressures and application
equipment capable of delivering a uniform droplet size that can wet the weed leaf surface."

I will say however I'm only targeting dandilions, some creeping charlie. I'm not after any and all weeds in the properties.

DUSTYCEDAR
06-05-2004, 04:15 PM
I have been using speedzone this year and it works great out of my backpac but not so hot out of the PG still working on the right rate i guess

lush&green
04-13-2008, 06:41 PM
Anyone (still) using Speedzone out of their Permagreens? Does it kill your pump? I had issues 2 yrs ago and have not used since. I have an Ultra..

RigglePLC
04-13-2008, 07:36 PM
The old type Momentum sometimes caused a few problems. Momentum FX II is fine.
However I think I had some problems with Three-Way Ester II, as a result of it settling out overnight, in my PG Ultra. Now I run the pump a few minutes first.
And now I use Eliminate. Works Great.