Walk behind specifics

[Ssouth]

I'm looking at buying a walkbehind mower(Exmark, because I already have an established dealer with excellent service). I have two Exmark ztr's but have never even tried a walk-behind. It will be used for smaller residential lots. I have four specific questions:
1) How much difference is the quality of cut between a floating vs. non-floating deck?
2) When operating with a velkie, how difficult is it to back up and maneuver? I'm used to making the standard three point turn to stripe lawns. will this be a problem with a velkie?
3) On the belt drives, appox. how long does it take to learn how to "smoothly" operate the knee shifter?
4) I've seen where you all talk about tracking. Is this actually sychronizing the levers for straightness or what? and how hard is this to accomplish with the belt drives?

I have done many searches and can't find a direct answer for these questions.

Thank you in advance,
Ssouth

[MOW ED]

Get a Hydro, get a Proslide.
You won't regret either.

[Vandora Lawn & Landscape]

Well if you wanted to buy a belt, knee shiftin takes about 5 shifts to learn. Its easy.

[beck]

What size are you looking at 36", 48", . . .

I have two 36"s one with a floating deck one without. Although the majority of my mowing is done with the fixed deck(because it is newer, faster and has a velke) I must say that the floating deck gives a better cut. On a 48" deck I would think that the quality of cut would differ even more between the two decks(fixed/floating).

Both of them are belt drives as well. I rarely use the reverse,

[Ssouth]

The mower in question would preferably be a 48" .. I'm going with the belt drive simply because of the cost differential. this mower will be used part time and just for the smaller lawns. Thank you all for your responces. Would like to here from more of you on the specific questions posted.
thank you and please let me know if any more specifics need to be listed on my part.

[Toddppm]

If you get the belt drive you won't be backing up, you have to pull it to back up, makes it hard to line up to stripe. On the hydros you just pull the grips a little harder to go in reverse .

[Evan528]

ssouth, When using a belt drive walk behind with a velke you cant make 3 point turns whith out geting off the velke. belt drives have "reverse assist" wich dosnt even move the machine unless your on perfectly flat pavement. So to stripe when using the velke you have to make like 3 outline passes around the perimeter of the yard and just mae very wide turns at the end of each stripe. To "track a belt drive all you have to so is remove a cotter pin and turn the brake rod right or left... thats take some fidiling to get it right but its simple to do. I have use a floating 48 and a fixed... i really see very little diffrence. You get used to the fixed and you learn how to cut without scalping with it.

[dylan]

1) I use a 48" fixed deck but would prefer a floating just for ease of height adjustment.
2) With a gear drive and a sulky you won't be backing up. (Unless you get stuck in a corner and have to pull it backwards) Maneuvering is no problem and the gear drive will turn around the inside wheel. I use a two wheel sulky but the proslide looks good. It's on my list of things to get.
3) No more than a minute or two if someone shows you.
4) The gear drive will track straight (theoretically) all by itself, except on hills. You keep it straight on hills by sqeezing one of the grips. Hydros sometimes need tracking adjustment.

[Runner]

If you're looking into a new walkbehind and are considering an Exmark anyway, I would DEFINITELY look into that new HP with the "ECS" feature. This machine looks to be a bad boy! I'm considering one for next year too. I think my '85 John Deere (Bunton) walkbehind is getting a little tired. Besides, being a 52", I always have to turn it sideways to get it through many gates. I think I'm going to opt for the 48" this time since that's all it'll be used for. Good luck with whatever you decide!

[Richard Martin]

My answers:

1: There is virtually no difference in quality of cut. <i>All</i> Exmark mowers cut very well when the blades are sharp.

2: You will not be making 3 point turns with any kind of articulating sulky.

3: Nothing to it. Pull both the left and right pistol grip levers in and you shift. Gear drive mowers are not meant to be shifted while they are moving but with some practice it can be done without harming the trans.

4: Tracking on belt drives is accomplished by altering air pressure in the rear tires. The mower will "pull" to the side that has lower air pressure. Exmark mowers are not prone to pulling however. I have had a slow leak in one tire and the mower has not pulled <i>even though there was a 10 pound difference in air pressure</i>. My Gravely on the other hand will pull if the difference is as little as 1 pound.

[luckylawnboy]

Get a Hydro, you'll be sorry. I had a belt driven, and once I switched to hydro, there is now way i will ever go back. to belt. They are woth less for my applications. I only use my walk behind for hills and tight terrian, other wise I use my Dixie. The places I use my walk behind is the places that a belt drive doesn't work the best. Sound like your in same situation I am.

[luckylawnboy]

sp

[geogunn]

hydro is the way to go, I would think. but the belt drives aren't as bad as some people make them.

on level ground they may even be a little easier to turn without tearing grass than the hydro. in my experience this is because the wheel on the inside of the turn is in neutral or slightly braked, instead of being locked to a hydro motor. I kind of manhandle the handle bars and it seems to turn very nicely for me.

I recently replaced the drive pulleys on my old belt drive. WHAT A DIFFERENCE! it pulls like a new mule!

nonetheless, my next unit will have to be a hydro if I buy it new.

good luck.

[Vandora Lawn & Landscape]

If you're just doing large open flat land like atheltic fields (stone?), a belt drive is fine. They cost less and are easier to repair. However, otherwise a hydro 10x as manuverable and much more of a pleasure to use.

[TJLC]

I own a 36" and a 48" Exmark hydro walk behind. The 36" seems to give a better cut than the 48". Both work great though. I had a 36" belt drive, traded it in on my new 36". Hydro hydro hydro. I also have the bullrider velkie from trimmertrap. It's great for flat open spaces. In corners and tight spots, it sucks. It actually sits on my trailer more often than not. Sorry these are just my opinions. I hope I don't upset anyone out there.

[lawrence stone]

Originally posted by Vandora Lawn & Landscape
If you're just doing large open flat land like atheltic fields (stone?), a belt drive is fine. They cost less and are easier to repair. However, otherwise a hydro 10x as manuverable and much more of a pleasure to use.

That might be true when it comes to pistol grip machines.

With t-bar toros I only lose some ground speed when going up hill. You need to have your machine adjusted properly with a good traction belt and proper adjustment.

BTW stoping downhill is no problem with a toro belt drive and a sulky. Just pull back on the bar and the machine stops.

Older toro hydros are very jerky and will rip up turf.
Belt drives are smoother to operate and can be adjusted to the operators needs.

[65hoss]

I have a 36" belt drive exmark and no more than I use it, it is the most cost effective way to go. Only comes off the trailer for gated areas that Lazar won't go in. Use it also to mulch large piles of leaves down for the ultra vac to pick up. Turning is easy, backing up is not a real problem. Usually a quick pull back and your gone. Very seldom would you use the reverse assist. Mine is the fixed deck, and from the guys at exmark, in a 36", the floating deck doesn't make much of a difference. Its more compact and doesn't have a tendency to scalp like the wider decks do.

Your only going to use it for a few residentials, then there is no way I would justify spending over 4 grand for a hydro that will not be used much. Spend $2000 and for small lawns you can't go wrong. I do have a 48" hydro, and they are better for larger areas, but small residentials the belt drive is fine. Since I bought the Lazar the 48" is retired.

[lawrence stone]

Originally posted by TJLC
I own a 36" and a 48" Exmark hydro walk behind. The 36" seems to give a better cut than the 48". Both work great though. I had a 36" belt drive, traded it in on my new 36". Hydro hydro hydro. I also have the bullrider velkie from trimmertrap. It's great for flat open spaces. In corners and tight spots, it sucks. It actually sits on my trailer more often than not. Sorry these are just my opinions. I hope I don't upset anyone out there.

Do you use the sulky on both machines?

[TJLC]

I use the velkie on the 48" hydro, have not tried it on the 36".

[lawrence stone]

Originally posted by TJLC
I use the velkie on the 48" hydro, have not tried it on the 36".

Take the mounting bracket of the sulky and move the attachment point a full 2 inches to the discharge side of the machine. This way you won't be banging into stuff with the sulky if you always trim on the non discharge side of the machine.

[mdb landscaping]

i have a 48 scag belt drive. works great for me. id buy another one. i have no problem lining up to stripe nice either.

[Cutter1]

I have two 48 inch exmark turf tracers. They are both hydro's. One is a 15 kohler, the other a 17 kaw.

I have on wheeled velike's on both of them. YOu asked about backing them up with the velkie's and people have discussed this before. In my opinion its really not that big of a deal. If you "jacknife" with your walkbehind, just get off and use your foot to correct it, really not hard. Also coming to the end of a line and turing around to stripe isn't a problem, especially with the hydro's. I can see maybe with the two wheeled velkies maybe getting in the way, but the one wheeled velkies stay out of the way pretty good.

I have floating decks on both of them too. I would not get anything else. When the yard is flat, anything can cut it(floating or fixed) But its whent he yard is bumpy that makes a good mower stand out.

I would not buy belts EVER!! THe difference between belts and hydro's is no contest. Hydro will pull you around with no problem(rain or shine)

I also tried the new walk behinds with the ecs. I highly recommend them!! I would not buy anything else besides exmark, I have very good success with my turf tracers and laser. If I wwere you, go with the biggest engine possible, floating deck, hydro. YOu will be very happy with it, if you decide to get it.

[geogunn]

Originally posted by Cutter1
I would not buy belts EVER!! THe difference between belts and hydro's is no contest.

the difference between belts and hydros are actually about $1500 and $2000.:)

GEO

[Cutter1]

geo...I wasn't referring to price, but if you have to ask. Yes the price is about that, but a hydro will pay for itself in time saved. Its faster, more manueverable, better on hills, better in wet conditions, you can use a velike and go full speed all day without killing yourself. This is what I meant by no contest.

[geogunn]

cutter1--yeah I knew what you meant. I was just trying to get a rise out of you. lol!

I personally intend to buy a hydro IF I get the chance. with luck I'll be buying a mid mount or frond deck rider first.

If I had employees, no way I'd put them on hydro units. the cost versus repair times employee abuse factor doesn't sound good.

BY THE WAY, not to let the velkie thing die, where do you land when you are wizzing along, full tilt boogie, riding high on the velkie, and you hit a stump ot iron pin that stops the mower dead?

GEO

[lawrence stone]

Geo wrote:

>BY THE WAY, not to let the velkie thing die, where do you land when you are wizzing along, full tilt boogie, riding high on the velkie, and you hit a stump ot iron pin that stops the mower dead

You land on the ground. At 5 mph it hurts getting slammed into the back of the machine then thrown off to the side.
But I have only had that happen a few times.

With a sulky you have a lesser chance to twist a ankle, blow out a knee, need a hip replacement, step on a nail or glass, DOG CRAP etc etc. Plus you can double your production rate per hour. And not end up feeling and looking like a dish rag at 5pm.

[geogunn]

don't I know the feeling, mister stone! one does not need to velkit or sulkit to bounce off the handlebars! I really hate it when that happens!

yet another reason not to set the cut height too low!

GEO

[mike]

I have a 36" X 48" Xmarks,(hydro"s). I wouldn't even think about getting belt drive's. I also have a 52" Walker riding mower. Of the three, the 48" Exmark has the best looking cut. Floating decks are the only way to go. I use sulkies with my Exmarks. Stationary, so I can back up without jacknifing.

[TJLC]

Stone, it's mainly when I turn around in a tight spot with the velkie attached, that I have problems, or when cutting next to a curb and then turning around and getting the velkie wheels caught on the curb.

[Cutter1]

geo.... :) It worked!! You got a rise out of me. The velkie thing, usually if you see a stmp you can get off and lift it up with your foot, but if you don't see it.......ouch!!!! You usually end up on the ground holding your crotch!! YOu have to make sacrifices to make money. :)

[geogunn]

cutter1--and all others, the stump thing that's got me a few times is the one that you cant see in the grass and is about an inch above the bottom of the front of the deck. when you hit that baby, you're gonna hurt.

last august I cut my next door neighbors yard. did just what I said above. briused my big fat "tool shed" of mine when I bounced off the handlebars! yelled so loud the neighbor thought I saw a snake! LOL!

GEO

[Nathan]

Unless you never have dew or wet lawns you will regret getting a belt drive rather quickly. A hydro honestly does make you more money thru productivity. If belt drive was even comparable some of the cheaper companies would be designing belt driven ZTR's. Take a guess why no one has.

[geogunn]

nathan--you may be over stating the belt slippage problem, at least on some modles.

I'll explain. my lesco 48, belt drive does not have wet belt slippage problems. works fine, pulls great in heavy dew or in the rain. so for me...no problemo! I don't regret my lesco 48 belt at all.

gravley is very popular in my area. I do hear complaints about gravley belts slipping in wet conditions.

conclusion...some belt drives slip in wet conditions, some don't. probably more do than don't.

I agree that hydro is the way to go, but no way would I pay that kind of money to have an employee tear one up!

GEO

[Strawbridge Lawn]

1 wheeled or 2 wheeled in tight spots: Which is best? I will be working in 8-15K SQ FT lots with fences. Is it more operator choice? Also, have heard that the 1 wheeled Velke leaves a stripe that is not appealing? Anyone?

[Scraper]

Gary: No wheels! Get a Pro-Slide!!! :)

[Strawbridge Lawn]

But how do you back up? Is there a link so I can see one of these? Lots of favorable talk.

[Strawbridge Lawn]

OK, Did some Searches, and more reading and came up with a big negative for me regarding the Pro-Slide (Power slide) Why? The lots I cut all have 2 car wide concrete driveways separated by lawn and many tight areas around adjacent property lines/fences. I think this will cause excessive wear and end up being more in the way.
The 2 wheel Velke should allow me to back up 2,4 or 6 feet without significant problems (I would think). Also as far as striping goes the 2 wheeled appearance would match the mowers drive wheels so I would not have the single Velke stripe. Any additional feedback is welcome and appreciated

[Scraper]

No offense, but if you're to lazy to step off to back up you should be looking at getting a rider and by the way you describe these properties it sounds like you'd be faster without a velke. When you're backing up you're going over what you already cut thus wasting time. Backing up more 6'? The nice thing about the ProSlide is that it automatically retracts up and out of the way when you don't need it. To get back on you step on the plate and it comes back out. The website I gave above used to be the homepage for the company that made them. I will see what else I can find. Maybe someone else out there knows how to contact them.

[Cutter1]

I have two one wheeled velkie's. I like them, they are easy to manuever in tight corners. I think I would go with the two wheeled velkie next time do to the fact that the one wheel leaves a line in the middle on certain yards.

[Esby]

I like my 48" Metro HP, does me just fine. Also love my one wheeled velkie:) The next walk behind that I buy will probably be an Exmark Hydro though.

[Strawbridge Lawn]

scraper: No offense taken. I am trying to be as efficient as possible while providing the highest quality cut on 10-15 residential lots p/day in Developments with tightly housed lots, & 16 -24 ft separating many houses with a property line in between. 2 car cement driveways separating the yards along with back yard pools and fences. The slide may be good for this I don't know yet, but it will certainly get alot of wear on those driveways. Will it last me a year in those conditions? Again I am uncertain. I do want to be on something more than off of it or in between wasting valuable energy in the process. Thanks, Will prob make the wrong decision first, ya know how that goes.

[tazman]

Just curious. I visited a Exmark dealer today and they have demoed Viking 36" hydro w/15HP engine for $3000.00, usually $4000.00. They have about 30-40 hours on them. Good price???? I am debating on going with a hydro w/velkie or move up to a rider. We have rec'd a contract for next year that has some baseball fields and they want the clippings picked up. I want a mower that will bag and mulch so I can use it on some of my other properties, but keep the cost down. I currently have a Deere GS30 (36", 13HP, belt drive) that has been great, but I need to move on to something better now. Any opinions accepted and appreciated.

[accuratelawn]

Tazman,
Why look at another 36 when you have the JD that will last forever? Purchase a 52 walk behind. Use it for large areas and the 36 for gates.

[TJLC]

Tazman, $3000.00 for a 36" Viking hydro sounds high. I just bought the same machine in a demo and paid $2300.00.

[tazman]

Accuratelawn:
I am thinking I should go to a larger size deck. The 36" can not pull a velkie, so I think I need more HP.

TJLC:
$2300.00 sounds like a great price. Some times I wonder if mower prices in the Eastern U.S. are cheaper than here in the West. The dealer regulary sells the Viking 36" Hydro for $4k, so I thought $3k was pretty good, but I guess I'm wrong.

[little green guy]

ok this post was much longer but this stupid computer just signed me off just when I was just about done =(

Ok I have 2 36" exmark belt drives, a 48" bobcat belt drive and a 52" scag hydro.

1- the 36" will pull a velke, one of my workers wieghs around 280lbs and it pulls him. I have 2 wheel velies in one of my 36" belts and my 52" hyrdo. the hyrdo cruises, the belts not to bad either.

2- GET HYDRO, I will never bye another belt agian. we have to cut in the pouring rain sometimes and the beltdrive is realy no fun to push. The hydro is awsome on the other hand.

3- Floating vs Fixed, I like fixed better because there lighter and easier to manhandle, change blades and get over curbs. Once you learn how to use a fixed you won't have problems. The only benifit I see to a floating is the extra wieght in the front if you have to go straight up hills, sometimes my mowers will lift up alot in the front on steep hills but I always manage.

Also get the biggest deck possible, i'm byeing a 60" lazer EPS this winter. Then I will retire the 48" and one 36" and use the 60" and 52" as primary mowers and just keep one 36" on the trailer for like 2 yards that have gates. I just don't see the piont to small mowers exept for gates.