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View Full Version : I Can't Believe Nobody Picks Weeds?


cenlo
06-08-2004, 02:42 PM
SOMEBODY PLEASE RESPOND TO THE DANDILION THREAD I POSTED.
THANKS, DON

Hamons
06-09-2004, 10:25 AM
Hey there,

You seem a little testy. maybe you could go get some frsutrations out on those dandelions :)

Most peopledon't pull weeds because no one can afford to pay us to pull weeds AND the professional and responsible use of pesticides is not a problem.

I do pull weeds in beds occaasionally and do carry a weed puller with me that looks like a screwdriver with a notchat the end -- helps me get the weeds with a deep taprooof. Generally -- i don;t worry about getting the whole root though. I f I get a reall bad bed I go a head and pull everthing as good as I can and then come back in two weeks and spray R-up on anything that decided it had the will to survicve.

I would have to triple my application price or even more if I was to start hand pulling weeds.

jajwrigh
06-10-2004, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by cenlo
SOMEBODY PLEASE RESPOND TO THE DANDILION THREAD I POSTED.
THANKS, DON

LOL!!!:D What are you getting frusterated about??

cenlo
06-10-2004, 01:46 PM
I'm not testy, I just know the answeres are available on this site. (Just trying to kickstart a response). I am chemical and pesticide free and my pricing starts at $435.00/ 2500 ft2. I add xtra to remove weeds. I have to pull the weeds manuallly as there is no alternative other than the vinegar. Cgm is pre-em. so its not going to work and the weeds are perenials. (Tryusing the Fiskars powerjaws weeder, way faster than vinager and no brown patches!)

trying 2b organic
06-15-2004, 06:06 PM
I sympathise with you and also have a pesticide free business. Its quite difficult to take a lawn which has already gone to heck and turn it around without pesticides. It does take some time. You simply cannot sell the kind of results that the traditional lawn care companies do, bottom line. You cant tell people that they will have no weeds in the first yr, and if you make that promise thinking you will pull all the weeds you are doomed.

I am enjoying your threads, plz keep posting. I have utilized many of the alternatives you are trying with mixed results. I dont use the vinegar in lawns yet because of the little patch of dead grass around the weed. I will start testing C.G.M. next spring and really hope it works. I hope that the only reason everyone doesnt already use it is because of the cost and that people will pay the extra money to reduce pesticide use. I hope my friend who runs a golf course and tested it and says it didnt work is wrong. Do you really not use any (traditional) pesticides? Thats cool. Tell me if you have tried the Infra Red Weeder.

scott in the soo
06-16-2004, 09:53 PM
cenlo, keep up the good work buddy,, every customer i contracted out to you is very impressed with your products and work so far.....

HazyDavy
06-17-2004, 09:52 AM
I'm not sure if this helps or not but I'm very new to lawn care and am not in the business, but I inherited a lawn where the house was vacant for about 2-3 years. I had to seed like a madman last fall and this spring a had a load of weeds. I tried hand picking them, and it would take hours, but they would either grow back or new ones would pop up. I wanted to be organic, but I broke down and used Stay Green weed killer. One application and ALL of my weeds were gone. I was amazed. I did also use CGM as a pre-emergent. Right now my lawn is virtually weed and crabgrass free. Just need to figure out a way to get rid of the damn FIRE ANTS!!!

trying 2b organic
06-17-2004, 11:09 PM
ty Hazy, all experience is welcome here, when did u apply the cgm and and what rate. If you did it early and at the posted 20 lbs per thousand square feet with little impact that is something we need to know as many of us are in the testing stages for this product.

As you discovered it is very dificult to take a poor lawn and make it nice quickly without a pesticide. did u prep at all before overseeding, eg. power rake?

cenlo
06-18-2004, 12:59 AM
For the lawns that are really bad I'm trying two different options. A) Picking 30-50% of existing weeds, then verticut with endophytic grass seed at 5#'s / 1000. After the seeds are 1" in ht(or about 4-6 weeks) I will apply cgm in pellet form at a rate of 20#'s / 1000 and apply again 6 weeks later plus pre-winter 3-1-5 fert. B) Wipe out yard with vinegar, then overseed at 8#'s / 1000 and so on.......................
Not sure which is the better option, I'll keep you posted. I just wish a I new if I should use pellitized cgm or powder?

Hamons
06-18-2004, 10:47 AM
Why is vinegar a better solution than glysophate?

cenlo
06-18-2004, 09:52 PM
Why is vinegar a better solution than glysophate?

Glysophate, I believe, is a pesticide. (used in "round-up"). We are a chemical free company.:D

trying 2b organic
06-18-2004, 11:11 PM
Use the pellet form of cgm, are u aware of the fact that to sell it as organic weed and feed, that you have to have a pesticide applicators licence and use the branded Turfmaize cgm. this may just be till cgm gets added to the exempted list this summer though. And im sure no one cares about using cgm without a licnece since there is no danger. just wondering if you had the latest scoop on all that.

Turfmaize will actually be cheap pellet form cgm. The owner of the comapny is quite accessable and prices are reasonable. I cant get it out here but I have another source.

Only Turfmaize has paid the money to the fed to have thier product officially registered as a pesticide. This allows them to sell it as such. Just like when we use vinegear for weed control it has to be Ecoclear brand vinegear. (for the same reasons) Funny stuff that government regulation.

ty for info, im embarresed to ask but is a verticutter the same as a powerrake, or is it a machine that cutts and seeds like what we call a split seeder?

Hamons
06-19-2004, 10:15 AM
Vinegar is a chemical and a pesticide.

Don't tka emy comments wrongly. I also focus on organic products in my turf care program, but.... I think that responsible use of proper herbicides makes more sense then using something more dangerous and harmful to the lawn just because it is manufactured for cooking and not lawn care.

Hamons
06-19-2004, 10:28 AM
Excerpt from Vinegar MSDS


INHALATION: Threshold Limit value: 10 PPM

Short Term Exposure Limit: 15 PPM for 15 minutes

Odor Threshold: 0.037 – 0.15 PPM

Inhalation of vapors can cause irritation to respiratory tract. Avoid inhalation.

SKIN CONTACT: Contact may cause mild injury and burns from vinegars of 11% acetic acid and greater. Dilute solutions may cause dermatitis in some individuals.

EYE CONTACT: May cause severe burns and permanent corneal injury from concentrated vinegars. May be followed by blindness. High vapor concentrations may result in conjunctivitis.

INGESTION: Concentrated vinegars may cause pain, irritation and burns in mouth, gullet and stomach


Round-Up MSDS

EYES: This substance causes moderate eye irritation as indicated by possible discomfort, tearing, swelling, redness, and blurred vision. See Toxicological Information, section 11.

SKIN: This substance is not expected to cause skin irritation. See Toxicological Information, section 11.

INGESTION: If swallowed, this product may cause gastrointestinal tract irritation. See Toxicological Information, section 11.

INHALATION: If inhaled, this substance is considered practically non-toxic to internal organs. This substance may be irritating if inhaled. See Toxicological Information, section 11.

kootoomootoo
06-19-2004, 11:37 AM
..........................................ouch

cenlo
06-19-2004, 02:40 PM
Hamons, vinegar is not supposed to accumulate in the enviroment, and readily breaks down to water.The US National Toxicology Program (NTP) has not listed this chemical in its report on carcinogens. Acetic acid is a normal body component and does not accumulate in the body.

"Glyphosate containing products are acutely toxic to animals, including humans....two serious cases of fraud have occurred in laboratories conducting toxicology and residue testing for glyphosate and glyphosate containing products....

I have no idea which is safer, all I no is glysophate is a suspected carcinogen.

I agree with the fact that proper herbicide use could be very beneficial.......ie. IPM. (I do have my pesticide license). The problem is not with the licensed professionals, it's with the Wall marts selling dangerous products to anyone with no accountability. Also, most Lawn care companies hire 18 year old college kids to spray the chemicals. So now you have a "kid" who just got home at 3 am from the bar and now, (for minimum wage) is supposed to apply products as per the IPM..........(not likely).

By the way, I said "most" companies. (I'm sure there are some good ones):angel:

dishboy
06-19-2004, 07:59 PM
Originally posted by trying 2b organic
Use the pellet form of cgm, are u aware of the fact that to sell it as organic weed and feed, that you have to have a pesticide applicators licence and use the branded Turfmaize cgm. this may just be till cgm gets added to the exempted list this summer though. And im sure no one cares about using cgm without a licnece since there is no danger. just wondering if you had the latest scoop on all that.

Turfmaize will actually be cheap pellet form cgm. The owner of the comapny is quite accessable and prices are reasonable. I cant get it out here but I have another source.

Only Turfmaize has paid the money to the fed to have thier product officially registered as a pesticide. This allows them to sell it as such. Just like when we use vinegear for weed control it has to be Ecoclear brand vinegear. (for the same reasons) Funny stuff that government regulation.

ty for info, im embarresed to ask but is a verticutter the same as a powerrake, or is it a machine that cutts and seeds like what we call a split seeder?


I am not sure if if the regs relaxed or not but Necessary Organics at concerngarden.com is also marketing CGM calling it a "100% corn gluten herbicide". Their application rate is 5lb for 250 sq. ft.

HazyDavy
06-21-2004, 09:53 AM
Basically what I did was use roundup on all of the weeds and crabgrass. I waited a few weeks then firmly raked up all of the dead weeds/crabgrass. I added several bags of topsoil, then I seeded using a regular drop spreader, then put down wheat straw and watered 1-2 times/day. If I had to do it over again I probably would have had a load of topsoil mixed with compost and aged chicken manure delivered and would have spread it out over my yard, then seeded and put down wheat straw on in larger bare spots.

I put down more like 30# if CGM per 1000 square feet in mid-march.

trying 2b organic
06-23-2004, 01:46 PM
So the cgm didnt work at all? I guess in a seed from scratch you have nothing to compare it to. However, if these were new weeds and not perrenials comming up from below then the cgm should have stopped them from germinating. Did the cgm allow any annual weeds to germinate? ty

HazyDavy
06-24-2004, 10:23 AM
Not sure if it worked or not. The weeds had already germinated in the fall, so they were dormant. I believe CGM stops NEW weed seeds from germinating.

dylan
06-26-2004, 07:30 PM
My company picks weeds by hand sometimes. With 2 or 3 people in a row going over a yard it is not hard to fill a wheel barrow sometimes. It does not take that long to cover 2000-3000 sq ft provided the lawn is not 50% or more weeds. In that case we would renovate anyway instead. The pros of handweeding include instant results, ability to show the customer the results (think trailer full of weeds), no pesticides etc. The cons might be taking more time than spraying, not able to get weeds that spread by stolens and rhizomes like clover.
All of my lawns that get full treatment, (mowing, fert, topdressing) we also provide hand weeding weekly when we show up to mow. Just a few minutes pulling 5-20 weeds every week on a vigorously lawn can keep things under control.

nocutting
04-02-2005, 12:46 PM
I sympathise with you and also have a pesticide free business. Its quite difficult to take a lawn which has already gone to heck and turn it around without pesticides. It does take some time. You simply cannot sell the kind of results that the traditional lawn care companies do, bottom line. You cant tell people that they will have no weeds in the first yr, and if you make that promise thinking you will pull all the weeds you are doomed.

I am enjoying your threads, plz keep posting. I have utilized many of the alternatives you are trying with mixed results. I dont use the vinegar in lawns yet because of the little patch of dead grass around the weed. I will start testing C.G.M. next spring and really hope it works. I hope that the only reason everyone doesnt already use it is because of the cost and that people will pay the extra money to reduce pesticide use. I hope my friend who runs a golf course and tested it and says it didnt work is wrong. Do you really not use any (traditional) pesticides? Thats cool. Tell me if you have tried the Infra Red Weeder......Hi, those infa Red type weeders are great....they are a much smaller version of the red dragon used in organic farming....As far as a weed puller,look at the "Weed Hound", you dont even have to bend over.....The best "practice" is to sell these "Gizmos" to your clients, so they can pull weeds in between your visits....."Look" for re-conditioned 1's [ returns ] they are cheaper, [ more cost effective ]...Sometimes I feel like "Huck Finn", I start out useing it, my clients gets jealous & wants to try it, than "Buy it"....I end up watching them, and wish them well!!!!! "See you next month"- Regards all Saxon :cool2:

Kate Butler
04-02-2005, 04:49 PM
Here's a link:

http://www.chemfree-weedcontrol.com/

We do a great deal of handweeding for some EXTREMELY particular clients; all of whom are willing AND happy to pay for the first class results.

lawnandplow42
04-03-2005, 06:15 PM
takes too long to do it by hand

WhohasHelios?
04-04-2005, 01:06 AM
I sympathise with you and also have a pesticide free business. Its quite difficult to take a lawn which has already gone to heck and turn it around without pesticides. It does take some time. You simply cannot sell the kind of results that the traditional lawn care companies do, bottom line. You cant tell people that they will have no weeds in the first yr, and if you make that promise thinking you will pull all the weeds you are doomed.

I am enjoying your threads, plz keep posting. I have utilized many of the alternatives you are trying with mixed results. I dont use the vinegar in lawns yet because of the little patch of dead grass around the weed. I will start testing C.G.M. next spring and really hope it works. I hope that the only reason everyone doesnt already use it is because of the cost and that people will pay the extra money to reduce pesticide use. I hope my friend who runs a golf course and tested it and says it didnt work is wrong. Do you really not use any (traditional) pesticides? Thats cool. Tell me if you have tried the Infra Red Weeder.

Blake,

Let me know which brand of the cgm you are testing, I will go in with you on a larger order if you like.

I have some vinigar on order from Dwight out at integrity...

As for the dandelions..Being organic is really a pain sometimes when it comes to them...Either dig them out (if your client is willing to pay you what your worth for the time) or encourage the grass to choke out the undesired growth. What is wrong with that grass that its not growing strongly enough to do this now??

nocutting
04-04-2005, 08:30 PM
Hi Guys, as with everything there are the right ways and the wrong ways. I only use CGM on 2nd or 3rd year clients, always start out with an extensive seeding program. Then let your clients know that yr 1 you may only get 30-40% control, but by yr 3 up to 75-90% control.....Anybody remember "Balan", it was a chemicl pre-emergent that needed 2 applications?....Always do 2 applications in the spring when useing CGM. In the east we apply around the end of April and again around the end of May.[ no matter what you read avoid the "Fall" application, it just dosent work!!!!!].........The best mechanical weeders are the weed hound, very sturdy and you dont have to bend over. [ they are even better if you sell them to your client to supplement the work you are doing].....I made my own infra-weeder in the old days it worked fine........The 1's you find on the net are even better, again you have to hold it on the center of the weed for at least 5 seconds....."Good Luck", regards Saxon :cool2:

HazyDavy
04-05-2005, 05:20 PM
I've got a few weeds this spring. I just hit 'em with some weed b gone yesterday. I'm sure they'll be history in a week or so.

WhohasHelios?
04-10-2005, 05:26 PM
I've got a few weeds this spring. I just hit 'em with some weed b gone yesterday. I'm sure they'll be history in a week or so.

I think you are in the wrong forum.... :realmad: