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two_planks
06-16-2004, 10:06 PM
I know its hard to say if your not in my area but I just want to know if you think I'm out ot lunch on this bid:

Poisoning and removal of 12 20-25' poplars. Property management company wants a positive kill but seperate price on stump grinding.

Poisoning will take place approx 2-3 weeks before removal of the trees. Subing it out to a guy who has ticket, he's giving me approx 50% off his regular price (cost to me $180+ gst) I'm charging $350+ gst.

Once the trees have significantly died back we will remove and clean up all 12 trees. I'm thinking $1601.25+ gst (I might add another 10% to that figure).

Stump grinding will be priced seperately but the bid will specifically state that with out it I will not guarentee a positive kill (as will the contract if I get the bid) Stumps are all around 10" at ground level so calling it 22"/ stump to allow for underground width (no surface runners that I can see) I'll bid it at $990+ gst. I'll probably sub it out wich will cost me approx $726+ gst.

So:
Poisoning $ 350.00
Removal $1601.25
Grinding $ 990.00

Total $2941.25

The math all works out on paper but for some reason it seems a little low. Any opinions?

fishman644
06-16-2004, 10:58 PM
thats alot of work for what you are bidding.

two_planks
06-16-2004, 11:18 PM
Originally posted by fishman644
thats alot of work for what you are bidding.

Yeah, I looked at the job, figured time on each individual tree, and applied it to an $85/ hour rate. I think I'm under estimating cleanup time

[edit/] I'm thinking that a guaranteed positive kill is also worth more money than not. If they want that guarantee I need to cover my A$$.

Green Pastures
06-16-2004, 11:22 PM
Sounds low to me.

Why do they want the trees killed before cutting down?

Isn't cutting them down and grinding the stumps going to accomplish killing them?

What's up with that?

Rebel7695
06-16-2004, 11:35 PM
" I think I'm under estimating cleanup time"

Cleanup time is always underestimated.... That is on my worksheet...."DONT FORGET CLEANUP" ... I always have the actual work figured to the tee, but then i forget about having to blow everything, put everything up... wash equipment, truck, loading and unloading etc... i have gotten better at it though...

two_planks
06-17-2004, 01:05 AM
Originally posted by Green Pastures
Sounds low to me.

Why do they want the trees killed before cutting down?

Isn't cutting them down and grinding the stumps going to accomplish killing them?

What's up with that?

They just want to make sure. If the roots sucker they will ruin a lot of $$$ worth of asphalt.

two_planks
06-17-2004, 01:23 AM
Okay, I just reworked the numbers and came up with a much better price. I'm much happier with the results and they seem more on track to me. Total price of $3,949.79. I know thats a big jump but realistically I think that the cleanup will end up taking twice as long as I originally estimated.

Mowing Mike
06-19-2004, 09:55 AM
Your Price sems way high to me. How many man hr do you think it will take to do all the work? Are the trees in a place that is hard to get to or are they out in the open? If you cut and grind popular trees the will not come back no need for killing first.

Mike

TREEGODFATHER
06-19-2004, 11:34 PM
Your price is ridiculous, and I say that without even seeing the job.

Poisoning is a waste of the customers' money. Once the stumps are ground, the likelyhood of regrowth is minimal at best already; covering it with asphalt which blocks out light/water/oxygen, is a definite guarantee.

bottlefed89
06-19-2004, 11:47 PM
If you're really dealing with 20-25' trees, your price is absurdly high to me. I also disagree with the poisoning thing, but that's your deal. Are you using a chipper or will you be hauling the brush??

o-so-n-so
06-20-2004, 07:45 AM
Ive been grinding stumps for years, and if you pay that to have the stumps ground....your getting ripped off to the max.

I can grind those 12 (10") stumps in about 30 minutes grind time for about 2 bills.

I think the job is about a $1500.00 job stumps and all.

One days work max.

D Felix
06-20-2004, 10:51 AM
His prices may seem high, but are they Canadian? If so, are they in line with what you are used to in US dollars?

Just a question, not poking at anyone......


Dan

fall46
06-20-2004, 10:58 AM
D Felix when u have a second check your private message box

two_planks
06-20-2004, 11:23 PM
Originally posted by o-so-n-so
Ive been grinding stumps for years, and if you pay that to have the stumps ground....your getting ripped off to the max.

I can grind those 12 (10") stumps in about 30 minutes grind time for about 2 bills.

I think the job is about a $1500.00 job stumps and all.

One days work max.

So your saying that I should beable to get them ground for free?

two_planks
06-20-2004, 11:30 PM
Originally posted by TREEGODFATHER
Your price is ridiculous, and I say that without even seeing the job.

Poisoning is a waste of the customers' money. Once the stumps are ground, the likelyhood of regrowth is minimal at best already; covering it with asphalt which blocks out light/water/oxygen, is a definite guarantee.

What if I told you that 2 different service lines run through them (the insulated type that I can work around) as well as both phone and cable lines. Two of the trees are leaning hard over a car port and every tree has little power outlet boxes (for plugging in you block heater) underneath, meaning that I can't just directional fall them, I have toclimb them . THey are not paving over with asphalt the trees are growing next to the asphalt. As far as spraying them goes, thats on the prop manageners insistence.

sorry about sp, no spell check on

bottlefed89
06-22-2004, 06:44 PM
Well, if you had said all that to begin with then everyone probably would have brought up that if you aren't a tree guy you are out of your territory when working around utilities. Then everyone would have asked if you are insured for this type of work, once the answer was revealed they would have suggested that you find an arborist instead of doing it yourself. If you needed help finding an arborist, D Felix would have told you to visit http://www.isa-arbor.com. This would have all been good advice, and it comes up a lot, generally with the same tree guys giving the same responses. Those who don't work in trees seem to think it's the same as landscaping, or that any idiot can do it. Very wrong. My advice: if you're working around utilities, hire a professional. 20-25' trees are pretty little, you could probably do it pretty easily, but don't chance it if you're out of your league.

TREEGODFATHER
06-22-2004, 08:01 PM
Stricly speaking, unless you're a certified line clearance arborist, you're prohibited as a matter of law from working within 10 feet of them.

As far as my earlier comment... I STILL say you're too high.

But what do I know...
:rolleyes:

two_planks
06-23-2004, 12:36 PM
Oh, you mean I'm too HIGH. I quit smokin that stuff years ago. BTW there aren't really any lines to worry about, there are some hazards that will require some minor rigging on a couple of trees. My comment was based on you saying that no matter what, I was too high without seeing the job. I know its a lot of money, but sometimes you have to step up with a big price and see what happens. Now what if I where to deadwood 65 spruce trees 20' tall, customer does the clean up for the same price? Would that be out of line?

odorisio
06-23-2004, 01:21 PM
why does everyone come here for advice and never listen to ANY of it.

TREEGODFATHER
06-23-2004, 03:15 PM
To waste out time.

two_planks
06-23-2004, 09:13 PM
What advice didn't I listen too?? I was trying to work out a problem in my head and came here for help. I'm perfectly capable of coming up with my own price I just thought I could save some time by getting others OPINIONS. Is that okay, one professional seeking the opinions and view points of others, or is this forum just for people new to the buisness to question the old timers (I thought that was what the "just starting out" forum was for)? The two comments that I made where either joking around (the stump grinding for free?? one) and questioning something that treegodfather said that didn't make sense to me. Is it not listening to ANY advice if I question this advice. Am I supposed to just blindly follow what everyone says or should I consider the advice of the collective and make the best decision for myself based on that advice?

I'm sorry if my comments insulted any one. TREEGODFATHER if my comments came across as snide or disrespectfull, I apologize. I was just questioning your comment and throwing out a scenario to back up my objection. I think it would be great to have a discussion amongst myself and other tree care professionals about just how much different scenarios (hazards, etc.) should affect your bid. Although I will admit that my scenario deserved the replies it recieved.

TREEGODFATHER
06-23-2004, 10:21 PM
Disrespectful, no. Snide? Yes, a little.

There are many here who are willing to help, and many who know alot more than you do about the work involved.

All you need is an open mind and open ears.

I come here to learn a little about the landscape business, because I admire the fine work that they can do.

In return, I bring to the "table" some twenty years of personal experience as an arborist, and my company with a collective 200 or so years- to answer questions and help others in an area I'm more qualified than they are. And I do so free of charge, to return the help I have gotten from others here.

I know I sound arrogant at times as well, so I'm not insulted. I do hate to see people get in over their heads, however, and the tree biz is indeed a very dangerous one. We have the habit of making it appear as though any idiot with a chainsaw can do the things we do. The fact is, they can't. Our skills, just as those of any good landscaper, are a combined result of years of experience, education, and yes- trial and error.


At this point, my advice remains to sub the work out to a tree company.

Don't take that as a personal insult, or an accusation of idiocy; merely, an honest recommendation based on experience.

As a company, I have 5 regular landscape companies that sub their tree work out to me. It has worked to both our benefits in a number of ways.

odorisio
06-23-2004, 10:49 PM
i guess my point was this,

you came on and gave all these reasons why the job was so dangerous, and then when you recieved the replies, you downplayed the dangers.

and in general i just get somewhat irritated when people come to forums and ask for "advice" when all they want is a PAT on the back.

two_planks
06-24-2004, 12:43 AM
I didn't downplay any of the dangers. I told you that they were not like I said. I used them as an example to try and prove a point. I used a poor example and my point did not come across very well. For the record I am not a certified arborist but I do have 6 years experience working as a climber for one. I can prune and remove like nobodys buissness but I do not, and don't claim to know everything. I know what I am and am not capable of and I don't do things that I am not. There is only one tree company that is owned by an isa arborist where I live and he has 3 people who work for him. On the flip side there are way more trees around here than 4 people can handle. 90% of the work I do is in tree care I sub out what I can't do to said arborist and he sends all his overflow to me. Here, I can not work within ten feet of utility lines or on anything that has potential to come within ten feet. Insulated service lines running to the house on the other hand are free game around here

TREEGODFATHER
06-24-2004, 07:28 AM
Insulated service lines are energized conductors. They are not "fair game".

If you had 6 years of experience as a climber, you'd know how to bid this job.

Congratulations! You just made my ignore list.

two_planks
06-24-2004, 10:06 AM
HOLY **** *******. In the province of Alberta a climber may work around insulated service lines. I'm sure its different in Hardwick, MA but don't assume that you know every thing about every where. As I stated in an early post I'm perfectly capable of bidding my own jobs. When I first came up with my price something seemed amiss was all and I thought one of you might catch what it was and be nice enough to help me out.

TREEGODFATHER
06-24-2004, 04:03 PM
...and we're supposed to know you're in Alberta because...?

TREEGODFATHER
06-24-2004, 04:06 PM
Dang, couldn't resist.

two_planks
06-24-2004, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by TREEGODFATHER
Dang, couldn't resist.

lol.... I knew you'd read it, I can't resist reading every post by people I have on ignore. Its really kind of a silly function.

I never said you should know that I live in Alberta. My point was just that regulations are different in different places.