Online Landscaping Course

[Turf Medic]

Anyone know of a GOOD online landscaping course. I am looking for a reputable online school that will allow a person to end up with a marketable degree in landscaping design, installation, and maintenance.

[kbenvironmental]

Turf
Try Borders or one of the major stores. They have a few great books that focus on online degrees and certifications that have been rated. All of the applicable schools are fully accredited. I believe ASU might have one.

[Turf Medic]

Thanks for the input, I will check that out tonight.

[lawn jockey]

Hey turf I would be interested in that too,if you would could you let us know what you find out? Thank you

[bottlefed89]

Also interested. Please post what you find out.

[DALMlawn&landscaping]

I know that a community college her in san antonio offers a one year (two semester just like regular college) landscaping degree/certification thing. thats what i'm doing come the next school year and its not so bad, 12 hours first semester, 9 the next, i can still have plenty of time to do work and all, but i will now go check out one of those bookstores to see. by the way, Arizona State Univ. or Angelo State Univ. or?

[DALMlawn&landscaping]

before these graduates of real colleges with real degrees in landscaping/horticulture/architecture get on me, i think its just a certification that says you know how to design, manage turf, do irrigation, manage a company, and construct the basics of landscaping stuff.

palo alto college www.accd.edu

[clyde]

yea u don't want the certificate if ur going to do something go all the way ...
the certificate is as good as u just keeping ur money or puttin into buying more books and READING and COMPREHENDING themurselves....

after all its ur body of work that carries u in the long run.


If i were to do anything it would be at a 4yr university.
or preparation for it.

The more the politicians crack down on things trying to draw money from the average person the more regulations will be put on things and therefore the more competence u will have to prove and thats what a 4 yr university shows on a Politically correct level.... What i am trying to say if i haven't already is
the bigger the US gets the more money there has to be made to feed it and all its parts and once the LawnCare and the Landscaping etc.... fields get to be bigger money generators the more the politicians are going to pay attention to it and then they start slapping laws and licensing requirements on the practice
and the certificate want add up to it in the long run. - this is just my opinion. But i think a valid one

but u have to pick out ur university ... ur final destination and then find out if everyone down the totem pole, if their course work will be accepted toward that higher diploma.

I think the accreditation u have to make sure of is if the college(4yr) is at least CAS accrediated. Thats a national accreditation organization that says hey this college teaches well rounded
courses.


I am finishing up an Architectural Engineering degree now and found all this out to protect myself

GO TO http://www.asla.org

and find out what all they need from a university and ask them
of any online colleges that they will accept course work from.
Hell if u get half a degree from online thats not bad ...
at least u can work and not have ur daylight time wasted by having to break 2 or 3 times for classes that are scattered through the day or week .. like i am now.. its sucks. i have to take about 4 or 5 showers a day before going to class.


IF anyone finds any good ones let me know or just post the links here....

Later....

[Turf Medic]

Well I went to Barnes and Noble, we don't have a Borders here, they had a couple of books listing online courses, however none for landscaping. I however did a google and a yahoo search for online professional landscaper degree and requested info from a few, I will post an update after the info arrives.

[clyde]

you know this is something that all of us need to be involved in.
Because we are the ones that make a town what it is as far as outside appearances. The Architect designs the building but the landscape architects finish them.

If ur in the business u already or WE already have a heads up the hardest part is basically remembering all the Plant names and the Sciences (ex. zoology and chemistry and etc. ).

there should be an addition to this forum that needs to include education advancements.

Classes and Schools and etc...

[clyde]

Turf Med

go to that site i listed its at the end of the replay ASLA or something ...


they are the people u need to call they will give u all the news u need.
They WROTE THE BOOK and LAWS u will have to go by or either get FINED by.... while working

[two_planks]

Originally posted by clyde

there should be an addition to this forum that needs to include education advancements.

Classes and Schools and etc...

That is an excellent idea. I second the motion.

[txlawnking]

Me three... My wife likes the Landscaping end of our work, and She is looking for an educational source now..... That being said I encouraged her to get some books READ them and apply that Knowledge to some projects. I myself have paid money for 2 different educational endeavors in the past, and was sorely disappointed. I found that I learned much more by getting the basics from books or someone with more experience, etc. and then developping my own style. Just my nickel, I wish you the best luck.

[clyde]

i totally agree Institutions are such bull

Believe me i have spent 8yrs getting mine. Finishing this Dec.

3 yrs was for a degree that when i moved to this school they dropped the funding for and the Teachers all left and it was going to take another 3 yrs just to complete it and i was like NOOOOO way . That field doesn't pay enough to justify it. So i went into Architectural Engineering. Much harder but worth the extra time i think.

I make more per hr than most coming out of college , or at least all of should be at least competive with most.
If only our mowers had A/C . So that should tell u something about how the system works. BIll GATES left college early, learn what u need to suceed and then learn what u want.

the only thing is if ur going to stay in One spot for the rest of ur life that's good u don't need it. BUT if u want to move bit. u can't do that without having a degree that says yes u are qualified. And its all coming to it. the Politicians and etc... are making a killing off the skilled labor. College teachings u competence in ur career at a very early age not Wisdom... which i think is more important to life a fullfilling life.

I think gettin a subscription to a couple of good Lawn magazines ... Like Architectural Design magazines and etc... and just keeping up with whats in style is all u need to do if u can do the work. And are competent enough to research the plant material that u are putting out. That way u don't but something out that isn't in ur Zone of the country and it die and u have to shell the money out of ur pocket.

[Turf Medic]

After spending a lot of time trying to find an online landscaping course, the only one that seems to make sense is one put out by Professional Career Development Institute. www.pcdi.com The are affiliated with Ashworth College in Georgia and accredited by DETC. Just ordered the course today, will keep you updated.

[landproscapes]

get your money back quick. I finished the course 4 years ago. its a waste of money. their curriculum comes straight from a landscape book which can be purchased for $60.00 called Principles and Practices of Landscaping by Jack Ingle. They literally photo copy the entire book place it in a binder. You take an open book test at the end of the chapter and mail it in. A drunk monkey could pass the exams. Invest the money in your business or buy a bunch of books

[Smithers]

get your money back quick. I finished the course 4 years ago. its a waste of money. their curriculum comes straight from a landscape book which can be purchased for $60.00 called Principles and Practices of Landscaping by Jack Ingle. They literally photo copy the entire book place it in a binder. You take an open book test at the end of the chapter and mail it in. A drunk monkey could pass the exams. Invest the money in your business or buy a bunch of books
you probably are not on LS anymore since you have only 16 posts, but i want to thank you for this post.....i found the book on Amazon and will purchase it for $60. your post saved me $600.....THANK YOU!!!!

[Popper357]

Interesteing thread, I already have worked through 75 percent of the Landscape Design Course from PCDI and love it! It sure would have been nice to have that book and save some money. There is one thing I wonder about that I think is important, the residential design workbook that comes with this course has taught me to draft to scale anything I could every want on a residential site, and this is priceless unless there's another good way to learn this aspect more cost effectively. Anyone learn to draft by other means than PCDI and a university?

[Turf Medic]

Interesteing thread, I already have worked through 75 percent of the Landscape Design Course from PCDI and love it! It sure would have been nice to have that book and save some money. There is one thing I wonder about that I think is important, the residential design workbook that comes with this course has taught me to draft to scale anything I could every want on a residential site, and this is priceless unless there's another good way to learn this aspect more cost effectively. Anyone learn to draft by other means than PCDI and a university?

The good thing about the course is it "forces" you to study. That plus the fact that you can honestly tell you customers you have completed a course of study in landscaping and are qualified to design their landscape. The sense of accomplishment in finishing the course will be worth more than the $600 you save by buying the landscaping book. The final test is taken at a local college with a test proctor, and I don't think it is open book. Anybody can purchase a book, but did you know that less than 10% of non-fiction books get read past the first chapter.

[Popper357]

That's interesting, less than 10% non fiction books get read past the first chapter! Haha... nothing suprises me anymore! I've read almost exclusively non fiction books for four years, averaging twenty five a year and many I've read twice or more.

Good info about the course' advantages and your right about the feeling of accomplishment.
"Did you know that if you mix equal parts ammonia and orange juice concentrate you can make napalm?" LOL that's B Pitt in "Fight Club", that movie rocks me everytime!

[Turf Medic]

The 10% blew my mind also, I think I got that from a seminar by Zig Ziglar or someone like him. I have read only non-fiction most of my adult life, I go in spurts sometimes 3 or 4 a month and then nothing for a month or so. I think you would be suprised how little reading gets done by the majority of the members here.

Interesting line about the napalm a little less than acurate but a good movie anyway

Napalm is a mixture of gasoline and a thickening agent for use in flame throwers or incendiary bombs. The thickener, to which the term "napalm" originally was applied, turns the mixture into a thick jelly that flows under pressure and sticks to a target as it burns. The napalm that Napalm.Net has purchased is a mixture of 46 parts polystyrene, 33 parts gasoline and 21 parts benzene.


Get your own napalm here
http://www.napalm.net/napalm.html

just don't let bobby see this, it will be added to his collection arsenal :cool2:

[newleaflandscape]

clyde

I wish they would pass a law requiring some kind of competance in our field. It would eliminate almost all of my local competition. There is only one other guy locally that could tell you the latin names of the plants he installs. If they did pass that law it would eliminate all these scrubs that have no experience, no knowledge, and no business owning a landscape company. I know that in michigan legislation has met a couple times on requiring at least a contractors license to be a landscaper, but it never passes. I know lots of state already require it. I wish they would do something to eliminate all these dimwits though. The ones that always get screwed by these guys are the customers because they are promised something at a low price and always end up with low results.

[AGLA]

Be careful of what you wish for. We all imagine that the cut off is just below our level of competency and not just above. The field is way to diverse to set a competency level. They can not, or at least should not, apply the same standard to having someone knock down Granny's lawn as to someone doing a water park. We all look at what WE do as the standard and everything below as substandard and everything above as things we should be allowed to do.

Your competition by definition is people who are capable of getting the work that you are after. If you are of the belief that someone of a low capability is competition, what are you saying about yourself? In a free market, you outshine others looking to do the same work you do until they are no longer capable of hanging with you. The government should not have to kill your competition for you.

Most of us started out with the same resume as the guys we call scrubs and lowballers. Do you wish that you never got a chance to grow into what you are now becuse some established company fixed it so you could not?

I just don'y get it.

[newleaflandscape]

Actually I started my business after having six of years of experience working for someone else. I was never just a low balling scrub that throws a few bushes here and there to make an extra buck. As for these guys that I want bottomed out the reason I say so, is none of them last more then two years. By then everyone heres what fools they are and they cant get work. The problem is in the two years they are alive they low ball landscape bids and take jobs that THEY ARE NOT CAPABLE OF DOING. Thats why I wish they would have some certification required. That would eliminate all these guys that wake up one morning and say today I am going to start a landscaping business even though I have no knowledge or experience. If you dont have full knowledge of the industry you are in I truly believe you have no business starting a company. I realize that everyone has to start somewhere, but I dont think homeowners should suffer simply because you are looking for some experience.

[D Felix]

It is a double edged sword though. I've wished for a long time that some of the jokers around here would just go away. The problem is, though, that when they do, there's another one or two to take their place. It must be easy work, since everybody's doing it, right??:rolleyes:

However, there are a few (good) companies that started out that way. I'm sure the percentage of start-ups that progress to what I would call "good" is very, very small, but there are still a few.

Right now, without mandated requirements, about all we can do is differeniate ourselves from the rest. We do that by explaining our education and experience levels (three of us= 14 years of college, 30+ years of experience), plus our professional affiliations and memberships. That's about all you can do. You have to set yourself apart from everyone else somehow.


Dan

[MarcusLndscp]

AGLA & Dan....I agree
I think competition is a very good thing for business. Even if they are lowballers they will get what is coming to them and in most markets some of them have their place. Meanwhile all we can do as educated individuals and professionals is strive to better ourselves. And I think AGLA brings up an excellent point, what makes you think you rank highest on the scale. I'm obviously not familiar w/ your particular situation but chances are you have some competition out there who might be saying the same about you, or what if they did set standards and you fell below the acceptible level. Believe me, quality work and customer satisfaction is priceless and word of mouth is a wonderful thing. I welcome some of our local lowballers to do work on properties next to ours it only makes us look better. Although we all find pain sometimes in losing a bid to a lower price, I typically try to shrug it off and try to better myself instead. In the end it has proven to be much more worth my time, and that is why I come to LawnSite. Look up any posts that either Dan or AGLA has made and chances are you will learn something here or there that you didn't know before.
I love competition it makes you strive to do better
Just my 2 cents

[D Felix]

The problem in our area is there is no GOOD competition. We are in a VERY small county (population-wise), and there is only one other business that I would consider to be legitimate "competition". We would love for him to get better at what he does. It would only help both of us.

The other "landscapers" in our area are mainly mower-boys with shears. Every now and then they will plant something. Problem is that what they do off of the mower looks like crap and doesn't last. Which tends to leave a bad taste in the mouths of the people that paid for it.

State mandated certification doesn't bother me. I know the only way it could work though is if it is knowledge-based, not by quality of work. Quality is too subjective, especially when you compare our area with the large metropolitian area of Indianapolis, a mere 40 mile east of here. There is a LOT more money there than there is here, and people are willing to pay top dollar for those installations. I know that for a fact, as I've worked for some companies there that did that type of work.

What it really boils down to is the fact that WE are the ones who are ultimately responsible for educating the general public about our line of work.


Dan

[Smithers]

Actually I started my business after having six of years of experience working for someone else. I was never just a low balling scrub .. ....

If you dont have full knowledge of the industry you are in I truly believe you have no business starting a company. I realize that everyone has to start somewhere, ....
you were going to be a lowballler if you hadn't work for someone else, i am certain.but you had someone to work for for 6 years and now you despise the people that you resembled when you first started

if you care so much about not having lowballers, go to the competition and let them know that they are losing money and you are losing money because of them.
If you dont have full knowledge of the industry you are in I truly believe you have no business starting a company.
how do you think most of the people start in life? do you think that they know everything before they enter their profession?
i think this is a ridiculous statement.

AGLA is 100% correct. you think you are the expert and everyone below you should be canned. Just like any man (myself included) you seem to think that every one else that is competing with you is a scrub.

give people some credit. i am sure that there are people that are just testing the waters, but others are trying their hardest to stay afloat. You can't make such general statements!!

[newleaflandscape]

I am trying to point out that if you dont know how to do a certain job is it really fair to the customer to go in and do it. Perfect example. Two years ago I put a bid in for a customer to do a pond and waterfall with some landscaping around it. My bid was just over twenty thousand. They got a quote from one of these scrubs and he was willing to do it and almost half the price I was. They decided to go with them. Turned out to be disaster. The pond leaked and the waterfalls didnt fall the way the customer had wanted. Looked ridiculous. They kept calling the scrub back to do repairs on the pond. They told me he came out on six several occasions to try and fix what he had no business trying to install in the first place. He installed the pond in the spring and before they knew it, it was fall and the project still wasnt where they wanted it to be. He told them he would fix it the following spring since the ground was freezing. Last spring came and suprise suprise after three years in the business he decided to shut down. These people payed just under 12 grand for a pond that leaked and a waterfall that didnt work and no longer had a contractor to fix it. They then called me to go out and take a look at it. I had never seen such a cobble job in my life. Instead of using a rubber liner this guy actually used the plastic you use to prevent weeds under stone. You know classic 4 mill platic. The waterfall was a hose that was hidden under about 2 foot of rock and that styrofome no leak crap. I told them the only way to do it was to start from the beginning and put in the right materials. Basically except for the crap nursery stock and the rocks in the pond they were starting from scratch with 12 grand out of their pockets. I gave them a quote and they said they simply could not afford it. I talked to them this past fall and they still do not have a working pond. It stands as it was that day in spring when i looked at it. Reason being they already spent alot of money and just cant afford it. I guess they are trying to save up some cash and still want to do it in the near future. So these people got screwed, and I eventually will be stuck with a cobbled up mess when i do the install. Will take me at least a couple days just to remove his crap. This is why I am entitled to make these statements. This was an extreme situation but there have been many like this on several smaller jobs with the same sinarios. Scrub landscapers that had no knowledge and no experience at the job they were doing. At least they were cheap right. On the positive note these people will recommend me to everyone they know, since I was still willing to work with them after they made a bad choice, and tell their horror story to everyone thinking of taking bids for their landscapes instead of sticking to reputable business. So maybe it was beneficial to me in the long run. But the ones that always suffer from these scrubs are the customers. State licensing requirements may have saved these people 12 grand. Getting my point yet.

[Smithers]

horrible story and a horrible landscaper....even a kid would know noot to use a plastic liner in a pond. what a dumb ass...

but you know what...i blame the customer too for not asking for references and not calling and makingsure that their $12K investment will be done right...that is crazy. i'd never spend more than $500 without asking for references.

how would you suggest to regulate someone like that? i mean, he barely had/made enough money to cover the expenses most likely. would you like to create more government jobs to go and partol landscape jobs throught the state? it's tough...but the customer has to be aware. in this day and age, even the kids that come to ask for recycling bottles look suspicious to me...lol

[olderthandirt]

landscaping installs are about 2 things only.

#1 salsmanship. you have to be able to "sell" your company and what your wanting the customer to buy.

#2 ability. The ability to perform what you sold. All the books in the world and classes won't teach you as much as the school of hard knocks. Will a certification help cut down on the scrubs? Doubt it! You have to have a contractors lisc to do roofing in ohio but the paper only proved you could take a test and pass it, there's to many leaky roofs installed by certified contractors.

Scrubs are a part of this trade as they are a part of many trades. They come and they go. The good contractors build a reputation aand stay for the duration.

Mac

[newleaflandscape]

petrentz

I wouldnt want inspectors or anything that extreme. Lordknows our state already cant afford what they are doing. I just wish they had a state license to get. My wife is a cosmetology instructor. Before she could get her license he had to have one thousand hours of documented experience and had to take a pretty tuff test to get her state license. There are many industries that require this same sort of thing. I am not saying this would elminate all the scrubs out there, but it would discourage those guys that get laid off from there jobs on monday and have there new landscape business up and running on friday

As for that customer, I agree it was there own fault. They were a really nice couple that even told me they were more comfortable having me do the job but they couldnt afford for me to do it. If they wouldnt have been such a nice couple, when they called me back I probably would have said told you so and not given them the time of day. There incompatence still is no excuse for someone to take advantage of them though.

[Smithers]

most of the time it's the nice people that get rear ended.

you should check out the networking from your area thread with the Mi guys. we will meet again pretty soon.

where in mi are you?

[D Felix]

Like I said before, the only way to do a certification-type of system would be a knowledge based minimum test. Will it cut down on the illegitimates? Maybe, probably to a degree.

All I would forsee on the test would be testing over proper techniques and methods. Yeah, it could be a PITA, but it might have saved that couple from spending 12 grand on a bad install.... Or maybe not, I dunno.

I could also see a way around the testing- documented proof of XX number of years experience with a certified company, OR a college degree.... Just thinking out loud here, as I doubt it will happen any time soon.


Dan

[Smithers]

i think one thing that would really work, or at least help a bit, is if they have a 4 hr class that everyone in the industry has to take every 2 years or so. this way, they can talk about ethics, problems, attitude and errors that people have done in the past.

[newleaflandscape]

I am ten miles north of lansing

[D Felix]

4 hr classJust 4 hours?

I don't know how MI is stuctured, but here in IN, our trade association (INLA) puts on a 3 day conference in January with many seminars each day, as well as a trade show the last two days. There's no way to cover all of those bases in just 4 hours- it can't even be done in the 3 days in January!

I agree, something needs to be done, but there's two sides to the fence, and I think I can see both sides fairly well....


Dan

[Smithers]

yeah, i guess you are right....4 hrs is too little...i was kinda thinking it would be like a DMV driving class that they just flap their lips for 4 hrs...but there is so much to our business that can never be covered in 4 hrs or even a day. just one off the wall example like, "Dont plant big trees right next to the house, or it will bust the foundation""....

but it has to be in the winter or else everyone will claim that they are too busy.

[AGLA]

I read above that no one should be in this business without "full knowledge" of the business. It always comes down to this. Just what the heck is "full knowledge"? That is always defined as everything I know - nothing less, nothing more. It does not matter if you carry a Craftsman in the trunk of an '87 Aries or own a trailer dump. The fact of the matter is that there are tons of things that can be done in this industry with little knowledge and there are tons of things in this industry that are beyond the ability of 99% of us. If they are to regulate it then they must make a blanket minimal competency.

When that happens, do you think the guys that mow lawns for a living that pass the test are all of a sudden going to be able to do a site plan for a shopping mall, and build a retaining wall to support a parking lot, and be just right to handle a wetlands restoration project, and write up a maintenance program for a golf course, ...? Are these things that all of us who are competent know how to do? Are these standards too high or too low? Maybe "full knowledge means that we know how to rebuild the carburator on our string trimmers and not how to build a retaining wall.

You see, this industry is so broad that what is essential for one aspect of it is useless in another. It, in my opinion, is useless and rediculous to try to paint minimal competency over the whole industry with a broad brush.

There are laws governing pesticide use - that is covered.
There are laws requiring structural engineer's plans in order for us to construct walls over 4' in most states (who knew that?).
There are wetlands (some that have no surface water in them, that are very dificult to identify) that you need to go through an approval process to prune a branch off of a shrub.
There are laws regulating business practice just about everywhere.
There are laws defining who can design drainage and grading on most projects bigger than a single family home in most states.

The point is that things that effect health, public safety, and business practices, are regulated as they should be. Protecting the public from hiring an idiot whether to wash your car, walk your dog, plant your shrubs, or paint your fence is not the responsibility of the government in my opinion.

Certification is great if you want to do it. It shows those folks that need a document that you have done something. But for someone who just wants a guy to knock down his lawn or pop in a few plants, let him hire the guy that he feels is minimally competent and let him define that.

These things usually follow the same pattern. The ys to regulate you, more ways to expand their power, and more ways to jack up the fee. The end result is that scrubs will still be working under the table and all the legitimate types have to deal with more fees, more time record keeping, more time re-upping the license, ... Scrubs will never go away.

[MarcusLndscp]

Like I said AGLA's a SMART SMART man! :)

[Bull_11]

So, back to the online program...did anyone find it worth the $600?

[Smithers]

So, back to the online program...did anyone find it worth the $600?
from what i have seen, i think the people that have done it really liked it. i also think that being enrolled makes you try harder too. but i'd still buy the same book instead for $80 any day.

[Commonwealth LC]

I am currently at a community college in my area and am studying horticulture. I have allready completed the prereqs for this so now im all set to learn what i am there for. They offer so many classes for landscaping and every aspect of it. from design, design, maintance, equipment, bidding, and much more. I am getting my associates along with learning all of this so i have to have the basics before taking the actual hort courses. But, if you would like to just go learn the hort stuff and not get a degree you can just go sit in a learn for free! thats how it is at my school and im pretty sure its like that at most others... you should look into it

[Coffeecraver]

Commonwealth LC

Have you looked into the Certified Horticulturist program?

Have you looked at the VNLA and CVNLA ?

(local links)
http://www.vnla.org/Certification/VCH2005ClassesExamInfo.htm
http://www.vnla.org/Membership/Benefits.htm
http://www.vnla.org/events.htm
http://www.ext.vt.edu/images/home/top_nav.gif
http://www.cvnla.org/