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woodycrest
06-29-2004, 12:38 AM
This is my yard, the last time it had any chemicals applied was 10 years ago.

It looked really bad for years and heavily infested with dandelions etc.
Last season i applied a total of approx 50lbs/1000sqft 'rolled corn' over the season. THe result last year was a consisitent deep green over the whole yard, but theturf was not thickening.

This spring i applied a 20lbs/1000 mix of soybean meal, corn and compost. we have had abundant rains and cool temps so far this year. I mow at between 3.5 and 4'' about every ten days. Obviously it needs a cut in the picture.


Personally i like the shaggy , 'natural' look of the tall grass, but thats me. My next door neighbours grass is cut at 2''(or lower) and neatly trimmed at all times...makes for an interesting contrast. :)

my lawn still has plenty of various weeds, but the grass is thickening rapidy!!

MY point here is that it has taken a full season to see the results of the 'organic approach'. MY grass has never looked better.

Time.

....most customers dont want to wait for results....

woodycrest
06-29-2004, 12:41 AM
from another angle..,

note the very short lawn next door...
one of the golf courses i look after is in the background....

trying 2b organic
06-29-2004, 02:55 AM
Nice, a theoretical question you are more equipped than most to answer. If you just kept up you best management practices, minus all hand pulling and herbacides, how close to weed-free could you really get? Just by crowding them out, could you get as close as almost weed free. Or not really, and if its not really than we have to be open with people (customers in my case) about tolerance and threshold levels. And the new organics mainstream needs to be realistic about what is achievable. Better is quite different than the monocrop people have become accustomed to. Mind you if you were able within 2 yrs to get most of the weed grasses out and only have a couple of broadleafs than you could have that monocrop with a minimum amount of hand pulling. Like 1.5 hrs per season maybe.

Anyhoo, nice lawn and thanks for keeping the organics forum active.

dishboy
06-29-2004, 09:20 AM
Woodycrest, do you attribute the thickening to the Soy, Compost or did you bump the N rate by applying more ibs per K?

woodycrest
06-29-2004, 10:20 AM
i attribute the thickening to optimum growing conditions...abundanat rain and cool temps, but due to generous applications of organic matter (soy, corn, compost, mulch clippings) the soil has improved and the turf is taking adavantage of the excellent growing conditions. There is no single factor that has much influence on its own, it is a combination of many...
sunshine,rain and cool temps being at the top of the list.

best management practices maintain the quality of the turf(good or bad).

trying2b,

you mentioned tolerances and threshholds and tolerance is the key here.
i could care less if my lawn is covered in dandelions for a few weeks in may, or the lawn going dormant in the summer and turning brown...but thats me. Customers need to understand the thier are no instant results from 'organics'.

Will the turf crowd out existing weeds?....no, probably not. There are numerous dandelions in my lawn, but they are not prominent without the pretty yellow flowers....as demonstrated by the pic below from late may. I am certain that thick turf prevents new weeds from germinating. Once the weeds are controlled, proper mowing , adding organic matter, and deep watering do the rest.

i dont have the patience nor the time to hand pick weeds from an infested lawn, it is an exercise in futility.
Maybe in three years my existing dandelions may get choked out, but that is unrealistic for the customer perspective.

Ric
06-30-2004, 11:56 AM
Woodycrest


Do they sell Lawn Mower and Hedge trimmer in Canada????? :D :D

woodycrest
06-30-2004, 12:38 PM
Ric,

my scythe and manual hedge trimmers are in the shop...carbeurator problems i think...:p

i getting a goat delivered in the meantime. :)

ya know, this is only my summer home, in the winter we live in igloos up here in the great white north, eh.

Ric
07-01-2004, 01:13 AM
Woodycrest

I got a great deal on refrigerators. A true advantage when in comes to keeping your seal meat at the proper temperature. Yes No more freeze burn on your walrus hides before curing.

I also have propane powered models for those out of the way places. Would like to buy two? one for each of your homes.

cenlo
07-02-2004, 08:22 PM
Will the turf crowd out existing weeds?....no, probably not. There are numerous dandelions in my lawn, but they are not prominent without the pretty yellow flowers....as demonstrated by the pic below from late may.

I think this is a classic example of a "reno" project! (40-50% weeds) Please don't take it the wrong way. I'm thinking from an "average" client stand point. I think this lawn could be weed free organically, but in order to accomplish it within a reasonable time frame a total wipe-out is in order.

dan deutekom
07-02-2004, 10:00 PM
KILLEX:p

cenlo
07-02-2004, 10:27 PM
KILLEX

Nobody cares!:cry:

woodycrest
07-03-2004, 12:05 AM
Originally posted by cenlo
I think this is a classic example of a "reno" project! (40-50% weeds) Please don't take it the wrong way. I'm thinking from an "average" client stand point. I think this lawn could be weed free organically, but in order to accomplish it within a reasonable time frame a total wipe-out is in order.

What is the point of a total wipe out? THat makes no sense to me. Why kill everything when the weeds are the only thing that are a problem?

how much is a 'reno' going to cost?????
So a 'reno' is kill everything then add amendments, compost, topsoil organic matter, etc etc, then reseed from 'scratch'? ?

sound like an expensive proposition to me.
Is a total wipe out for the benefit of the lawn or a benefit to the bank account of the LCO?

what do you consider a 'reasonable time frame'?

dan deutekom
07-04-2004, 12:18 PM
Woodycrest's lawn is a good healthy stand of grass and why would you wipe it out? Most people would object to the healthy stand of weeds also. This is a case where a late spring application of Killex, an fall application of Killex and another late spring application of Killex the following year will provide a weed free lawn that could then be kept that way organically from that point on. Or after that a Killex spot spraying every 2 years does a pretty good job too. Now before all of you chemical free guys jump all over me just figure out how much energy and fuel is required to produce, transport and apply a few ounces of Killex to the hundreds of pounds of organic materials that won't achieve the same clean lawn in a short time span. (which most customers do not have the patience for waiting)

Ric
07-04-2004, 01:19 PM
Dan

I find it hard to believe that a few ounces of Killex would not contaminate the environment more than three tons of E-coli ridden Cow Manure. I think Woodycrest's goats would do the job much better. They are selective browsers and will eat only the sweeter tasting grasses. Dandelions are in fact bitter. The goats will help Woodycrest develop a true mono-stand of Dandelions.

BTW Woodycrest you will need that refrigerator to keep your goat milk from freezing. Do not delay, Order today.

trying 2b organic
07-09-2004, 12:02 AM
dan I agree with you. At the beginning of this season after a lot of book readin' and courses about organics I was saying what cenlo is but now I would do what you recommned. True IPM is a better use of a customers resources. btw, how would you renovate, there are only 2 ways, a kill and till which will require a lot more toxic chemicals than what dan suggested, or a bobcat to scrape off the top 3 inches of turf and soil and bring in 5 yards of new soil. then, regardless of whether you seed or sod and how well you imploy best management practices you will have weeds, not as many has he has now but they will come.
I guess you could take out the existing lawn, replace it, and since you will be starting with something much better you could stay on top of the weeds for a few yrs with hand pulling and good fertliziation and maintenance. No one will do that though. In the real world then, what are the options. As long as cosmetic use of pesticides is allowed in our industry thier results and costs will guarentee their usage.
btw, i tried again to wipe on hort. vin. with a weedstick onto broadleafs in the lawn and still got a kill of grass around the weed and ugly brown spots.

Garden Panzer
07-09-2004, 02:31 AM
I rototill under ENTIRE lawns and replant....
sometimes more lawn.... mostly FLOWERS.
I have a site that has 2 goats next to it, when I pull weeds I toss 'em in a pail, and when the blower is running I feed the goats. When they hear the blower they come running!
One day I'm gonna have 5 pet goats.
Then I'll write a book called, " MY PET GOAT"
:rolleyes:

once again, watch the vinegar, as it WILL sterilize the soil.....even "weeds" won't grow!


BTW


I have park on Lake Washington that Salmon swim by, we even find 'em beached in the Fall, I'm WAY into ORGANICS, that said athlectic fields are HARD to maintain with only natures N, so I use Urea- NOT all growing cycles, just when it counts.

:)

woodycrest
07-24-2004, 09:11 PM
heres some pics from today...

we have had abundant rain here the last month ,this certainly is a large factor in the improvement in the turf...

woodycrest
07-24-2004, 09:15 PM
this follows up comments earlier in this thread about a complete lawn renovation, and it being a 'cash grab'. THe only input this lawn has seen since the ugly dandelion pics earlier in this thread areabundant rainfall, and mowing every two weeks.

Ric
07-25-2004, 12:14 PM
Woodycrest

Well all I can say is that certainly is a thick green poly-stand. It does meet a landscaping design feature or variation of texture also. However I liked the flowers they gave it class. I would like to suggest that next year you add wild flower seeds in the spring for that all summer long color. jab jab :D

BTW are you not cutting too often at every two weeks??

timturf
07-25-2004, 10:48 PM
I believe he is cutting too often!

woodycrest
07-26-2004, 12:35 AM
In all honesty i would prefer a once a month cut!

But not everyone agrees with my logic.
It looks really cool when birds or squirells disappear into the turf as they bend over for some morsel of food, and then they pop up again..makes my daughter giggle anyway. :)

tall grass develops deep roots. Simple.


Ric,
isnt it all about different textures?

To me, texture is all important.
this is the golf course across the street from 'an organic yard'...
note the different cutting heights, and the softness of the tall clover as compared to the 'stiffness' of the shorter fairway, the stripes provide the contrast of dark and light.
THese 'textures' all vary with the positon of the sun in the sky during the day.

woodycrest
07-26-2004, 12:36 AM
and another........

woodycrest
07-26-2004, 12:38 AM
the finished product...

Ric
07-26-2004, 09:28 AM
Originally posted by woodycrest
In all honesty i would prefer a once a month cut!

But not everyone agrees with my logic.
It looks really cool when birds or squirells disappear into the turf as they bend over for some morsel of food, and then they pop up again..makes my daughter giggle anyway. :)

tall grass develops deep roots. Simple.


Ric,
isnt it all about different textures?

To me, texture is all important.
this is the golf course across the street from 'an organic yard'...
note the different cutting heights, and the softness of the tall clover as compared to the 'stiffness' of the shorter fairway, the stripes provide the contrast of dark and light.
THese 'textures' all vary with the positon of the sun in the sky during the day.

Woodycrest

My mother used to say " Everybody there fancy said Nancy as she kissed the Cow" Yes your uses of texture is wide spread, as well as flowering color. While your personnel lawn no longer has pretty yellow flowers, I see the golf course makes use of beautiful white flowers.

Darn I wished I had your talent of texture and color.

dan deutekom
07-26-2004, 06:04 PM
I wish I could sell my clients The Woodycrest Mantra. I would save a ton of wear and tear on my mowers:D . Right now we have to mow twice a week or they complain about that "pretty texture" and they get really *issed off when the Yorkshire Terrior disappears into the turf when they are dropping a load.;)

DUSTYCEDAR
07-26-2004, 06:06 PM
get a bigger dog

dan deutekom
07-26-2004, 08:21 PM
LMAOL :D :D :D :D :D :D

woodycrest
07-26-2004, 08:27 PM
life would be awfully boring if everything was a green carpet...


Ric,
i have no talent, mother nature provides the color and the texture.

:D

Dan,

what is the 'woodycrest mantra' ?????

dan deutekom
07-26-2004, 08:48 PM
The Woodycrest Mantra


Originally posted by woodycrest

It looks really cool when birds or squirells disappear into the turf as they bend over for some morsel of food, and then they pop up again..makes my daughter giggle anyway. :)..........


.......Ric,
isnt it all about different textures?

To me, texture is all important.
this is the golf course across the street from 'an organic yard'...
note the different cutting heights, and the softness of the tall clover as compared to the 'stiffness' of the shorter fairway, the stripes provide the contrast of dark and light.
THese 'textures' all vary with the positon of the sun in the sky during the day.

woodycrest
07-26-2004, 08:51 PM
oh....:)

thats an awfully long mantra...

i suppose it all comes back to texture then, eh.

dan deutekom
07-26-2004, 09:04 PM
:rolleyes: :D

dan deutekom
07-26-2004, 09:08 PM
Woodycrest

One of these hot summer days we are going to have to meet in Lindsay at The Grand and have a cool one:drinkup:

woodycrest
07-26-2004, 09:24 PM
:drinkup: ..sounds like a great idea,
but we need to turn off the rain machine so this green stuff we call turf slows down a little...

i missed a couple of properties last week...i showed up at one friday morning and the grass was already cut....oops:o
oh well , its all just water under the bridge now...:)

dan deutekom
07-26-2004, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by woodycrest
:
oh well , its all just water under the bridge now...:)

and in Peterborough, in the streets, and the basements:cry:

Ric
07-26-2004, 09:52 PM
Woodycrest

Please be kind enough to send some of that rain South. we are 10 inched down for the year. We actual had 7 weeks with out rain at the start of rainy season. How ever we also got rained out 3 days straight last week.