Super Z ( 25vs27hp kaw, Bac-Vac system)

[cbmoore]

Background info: Cut ~5-6acres of grass on the family land and looking to add some extra work(jobs) so I need a better/faster mower.
I am looking at purchasing a Hustler Super Z mower with 60" deck, and have a few questions.
1) I am looking at the 25hp Kaw and the 27hp liquid cooled Kaw
can someone give me the pros/cons of each?
Will the addition of the waterpump and gearbox(due to horizontal shaft) use the extra 2 hp? Will I be able to notice a power difference will cutting or using the bac-vac system.

2) I am looking for some imput/personnal experience with the bac-vac system. The dealer in my area has never used the this system before. Also looking for pros/cons

[gene gls]

I have the Super Z 60" with a bac-vac unit and a 25 HP Kawi.Its underpowered. Even in heavy growth with out the vac on, its still underpowered. Get the 27 HP or larger.

The main reason I bought the Hustler was for the bac-vac unit. It was the only brand on the market at the time that could be removed for side discharging and replaced by one guy. The vac unit works great but its expensive to maintain for the high wear parts of a vac system.

Gene

[cbmoore]

What are the high wear items on the Bac-vac system.
Wouls you recommend the 27 liquid cooled Kaw or the 28HP Kohler?

Thanks,
Brian Moore

[gene gls]

All the parts from the mower deck to the hopper are "high wear" items. The better the quality of lawns you mow, the longer these parts will last. The more your machine bounces over rough ground, the faster you will see excessive wear on some parts.

I would go with the 28 Kohler. I will never buy anything with a Kawi engin in it again.

Gene

[cbmoore]

What king of problems have you had with the Kaw.
I was concerned with the Kohler build quality.

Thanks,
Brian Moore

[superman]

I agree with Gene on the under powered part, but not on the Kohler. I do find myself wishing I had more power. I can't come up with any complaints about my Kawi though. If I had to do over I would but the biggest liquid cooled Kawi they offer.

[cbmoore]

I spoke with the mechanic at the dealer and he suggested that I stay with a kaw. He said the EFI was sensitive moisture and was expensive to fix. He also questioned the power gained from the 27kaw due to water pump and gear box eating up hp from internal friction and drag of the water.

Any suggestions from the list??

Thanks,
Brian Moore

[gene gls]

I haven't had any engin problems, yet, other than loose nuts, bolts, and the oil pressure sending unit keeps loosening up due to viberations. The wire gaurd on the top of the engin keeps braking where it bolts on to the housing. I had my welder add some extra wire material for more strength last time around. I think the Kawi engin is tweeked to the max. Its very sensitive to the air filter getting dirty and I can notice a differance between the running on a heavy air day verses a dry air day. Kawi parts are more expensive when the time comes.

I would agree with your mechanics view about the L/C.

I have friends with 26 and 28 HP Kohler EFI engins that have had no engin problems and they use less gas.

I just got my Super Z back from the dealer today,2 weeks this time. They replaced the left pump and wheel motor and 2 more spindle bearings.That makes 6 spindle bearings sence last Sept. This makes 3.5 weeks at the dealers already this season for repairs and we still have 4 months to go.

Gene

[yardman1]

I have got the 28 efi and it is awesome, I have not had a problem with moisture at all, Mine gets a bath every sunday and no problems yet.

[cbmoore]

Thanks for all the help. I am familiar with EFI systems on Fords and the Kohler uses the same Bosch closed loop system, just in a
simplar set up. I know the components can be made to withstand vibration and moisture, but can be very expensive to replace. $400-600 to replace a computer for a mower is alot of money.

I guess I need to decide if I want a simpler engine (possibly under powered) or a stronger engine with more costly maintenance.

Thanks again for all the input. Please keep the suggestions coming. I am picking up a demo Super Z( 25 Kaw) with bac-vac this afternoon.

[ScCo]

I have a 25hp Kawi with 60" deck super z with the bac vac system.

It gets great finished results, but due to the 25hp engine I do have to slow down a lot in certain conditions to get the desired results. If I had it all to do over again, and in ideal circumstances, I would have more power than 25hp for running the vac, but it is by no means an issue that I can't live with.

Leaves a very nice, clean, finished cut and seems to have all of my customers happy, so I can't complain.

On a side note, I'm looking a purchasing a second super z with more power and buying the extra brackets if needed to put the bac vac on the more powerful machine on the days that I have to use the grass catcher and for fall cleanups.

Hope this helps a bit with your questions,

ScCo

[cbmoore]

Thanks for all the help. All the people on this list are great and very helpful. I decide to purchase a Super Z, 60", 25HP kaw with Bac-vac. Cost was $7499 for mower and $1800 for bac-vac.
It was the best deal I found in the area.

Thanks again,
Brain Moore

[mowerconsultant]

Sounds great !
Let us know how much you love your new ride.

Pj

[cbmoore]

I will post back as soon as I get to use it. I bought it with the intentions of cutting down on my mowing time, but I had so much fun with the demo I went looking for more grass to mow. These things are addicting.

Thanks again,
Brian Moore

[NoWalk4Me]

CBMoore
Not sure where you are in Western NC but the deal you got was pretty good. I'm in the market for a Bac-Vac myself and all I'm getting from dealers is "Well it retails for $2,400." I'm not interested in that, I'm interested in what I can buy one for! If you don't mind telling, who is your dealer? I don't mind driving for a good deal. Thanks for the info.

[cbmoore]

I will go by there this afternoon and get the number. I know the rebates go off at the end of the month, but I don't know about the bac-vac.
This system is the easiest to intall/take off that I have ever used. and the system works great on tall grass also.\
You will not be disappointed.

I will post the info this pm.

Thanks,
Brian Moore

[mowerconsultant]

There are no rebates on the Bac-Vac, there never has been.

Pj

[cbmoore]

PJ,

Thanks for clearing that up on the Bac-Vac.
Thank you for all the info that you provided on the Super Z and Bac-Vac. before the purchase.

Thanks,
Brian Moore

[mowerconsultant]

No problem.
Have a good weekend.

Pj

[ScCo]

my bac vac ran me $2300. no bargaining available, it was a take it or leave it kind of deal

[guff1972]

We have a 27hp liquid cooled kawasaki 72" with a bac vac on it and never run out of power.WE have a humboldt bagger on our super mini z also , the bac vac beats it hands down,easiest to remove and operate, wish I had the bac vac on my mini.

[gardengnome]

Personnally I'd stay away from the BAC-VAC. It's an expensive piece of junk. I don't use mine that much, but i've had to replace the pivot pin, it eats belts, too many small parts, connect/disconnect needs major overhaul (too many parts), mine spews junk out the clamshell forward into your neck. I've had to weld the hangup on the bagger 'cause it broke and would have dumped the whole bagger. The rear mounting bracket on the mower also causes too much heat build up. I had to add a trans cooler kit to my Z, now i can't keep the engine running without a skip. Great it's only the fourth time the things has been down with the same problem

My dealer tells me hustler is actively pushing the "trashcan style" bagger which is considerably lighter. My take on that is that if you push one but still have the other available you don't have to admit that the thing is junk and refund the victims

[cbmoore]

Sorry to hear you wasn't able to get a better deal on your Bac-vac. I know dealers have different overhead and profit margins to be able to stay in business. I can't say enough good things about the dealer I worked with. I got great service before and after the sale.

[gene gls]

What do you mean, you got problems? My dealer tells me that I'm the only one with problems.

I have had all the same problems as you with the vac unit. I went thruogh 8 lower belts and 4 upper belts on my vac unit last season. I think I have found my belt problem. The pivot mount is not made to mount in a vertical position,this causes the blower to tip up and the belts will come off after they streach out some. Check your deck with a level for horizantal flatness and then put the level in the vertical position against the pivot mount. Mine is off by 1/4 ", dosen't sound like much, but it transfers the angle greatly when the blower is set on the pivot pin. I just got a new pivot pin but haven't had time to get it welded to the deck,(the bolt holes do not alow it to mount in the vertical position).

I'll PM you later with a couple questions.

Gene

[mowerconsultant]

Originally posted by gardengnome
My dealer tells me hustler is actively pushing the "trashcan style" bagger which is considerably lighter.

Hustler does not offer a trashcan style bagger.
We have made the Bac-Vac since 95, and have a great track record with it.
I am not saying your not having problems, have you called the factory ? if not please do so 1-800-395-4757 ask for customer service.

Pj

[gardengnome]

Gene,
I was told that the belt problem stems from improper alignment of the pulleys. Kevlar belts are supposedly very touchy on this. No, really???!!! 'Course, if you mount the unit per instruction shouldn't everything line up correct?

PJ,
I'm not argueing your track record, however, I understand that the unit was originally designed for a different mower. Unfortunately it is not always a good idea to take something that works on one thing and expect it to work equally well on something else.
Thanks for the phone number, I'll see if I have some time somewhere :)

[cbmoore]

""NoWalk4Me""

Did you get the PM I sent last week on the prices of the Bac-Vac?

Thank you,
Brain Moore