First Contract (How Many Cuts, Con'd)

[TGCummings]

Hey Folks,

Come Tuesday, I'll be placing a quote for landscape maintenance of the water district's local sites (three of 'em). I have a family friend who inherited the General Manager's position at this post and he's convinced the Board to hire out the work and save his people for their specified jobs. Could be a good account, if they meet my price.

I've done the research here, I've listened and learned and I'm ready to draw up my first commercial contract. It'll be a great way to start the New Year if it comes through.

However, I have a question: In my area, there is no off-season. We cut year around, either weekly or bi-weekly. Now, in drawing up my contract I want to specify the number of cuts annually, but am not sure how to approach it. The standard 30-35 cuts/year I see for most companies up here won't work out here. I saw one guy had 43, which seemed an odd number to me.

I'm mainly focused on finding out what others here in California use as a figure for number of cuts in their contracts, and why. My initial thought was to go 44 and 22 cuts, for weekly and bi-weekly respectively. That would leave 8 weeks for rain, equipment, and family vacation issues. That seems a lot, though, and have been considering 46 or even 48 cuts for my weekly accounts. That would still leave 4-6 weeks of play, wouldn't it? Is that feasible, or am I asking for trouble with that many scheduled cuts?

Though I'd love to hear from other Californians on this, I'm also interested in hearing the feedback from anyone with an opinion (re: Guido! Homer! Kirby!). The more perspective I get, the better picture I'll get on this, my first contract.

As always, appreciate your help!!! :)

-TGC

[Chuck Sinclair]

I have never seen a California contractor specify how many cut to make i know i dont i word my contract to read that after october the cuuting is on an as neeed basis detemind by ME :)

[tazman]

I would agree with Sinclac. If the water district does not specify how many mows they want a year, then you do. I would say (for example)in the bid, you would mow a minimum 36 times not to exceed 52. Any mows above 36 would be on a as-need-basis determined by you. I have used this approach with no problems at all.

Good Luck.

[jay]

Are you just mowing the site or are you taking care of the beds and walkways? I would talk to your relative or and ask the site exactly what they want. The reason I asked you about maintence on beds and walkways is because it will probaly look more presentable weekly if theres alot of trees or trafic around. But the bid would look alot more pleasing doing it bi-monthly during the winter. I also am from C.A. and most of my commercial accounts like them weekly if it has anything to do with business, just because it looks more pleasing to the customers and staff. I started writing yearly contracts this year also with the advise from this site but I can't see it working for all of my customers because weeds keep growing, leaves keep falling, garbage builds up, and walkways become unatractive in a period of a week. The ones I can see it working for year around are the newly landscaped facilities.

[HOMER]

TG,
You know your seasons better than I would. I used to think I knew mine but this year has blown it all to, well anyway. I would specify in the contract the number of cuts you will perform for each month, the heavier growing months would be weekly for instance and the slower months would change to bi-weekly. I would give them a minimum # so they will have something to reference then include a phrase that lets them know you will take care of any extra cuts if needed due to weather conditions. Just let them know you will be there to take care of the property no matter what. Make sure when figuring weekly that you take into account the months that have 5 weeks, I think there are 2 in 2001. It's easy sometimes to figure 4 weeks month. I have a proposal form I could fax you that is a fill in the blank type if you need it. E-mail me and let me know.

Homer

[jay]

Exactly Homer about the five weeks in a month alot of people don't add that in I usly times each cut by 4.25 to get my average monthly rate, because theres a average of 4.25 weeks each month.

[Starling Lawn]

TGC,
Your numbers sound about right for year around service.In Florida,we cut all year too.
I would lower your bi-weekly cuts to do some more fishin`
Dave

[TGCummings]

Hey Folks,

Thanks for all the replies. You've given me some food for thought as I prepare this proposal and contract. Let me address some specifics you've made me think about:

Sinlac: If your # of cuts are not specified in contract, how do you personally figure up your rate? Do you base it on the general number of cuts you'll supply each year and just don't pass that on? If so, how many cuts/year do you estimate when working up your proposal? Being in California, with experience in my general climate, I'd be interested in knowing how you work up your proposal...

Jay: I'll be walking off the properties on Tuesday, but from the general conversation it would appear that most of what is needed is the mowing, with some weeding and general care as well. All of which I can easily provide. My thinking is setting up the contract with weekly maintenance February through October (our general growing season), and bi-weekly November through January. With this, I would set my number at about 42 visits/year under normal conditions (36 weekly, 6 bi-weekly).

Homer: I e-mailed you about that proposal. Like I said there, I think setting things up at 4 cuts/month would get stickier than setting things up at 36 cuts/9 months. Over that period, I could make up any missed cuts from weather, vacation, equipment, et. al. during those extra-week months and still hit my average. If I state unconditionally that I'll cut 4 times every month, I could get into a situation where a customer might ask for discounts if they're due late in a short month and I end up moving them to the 1st of the next due to weather. If I set it up for cuts/year I think I could avoid a lot of little problems. What do you think?

Again, thanks to everyone for their thoughts. Your responses and insights, and this whole wonderful site, have been a godsend... :)

-TGC

[KirbysLawn]

TGC, looks like Chuck, Homer and the others beat me to it. Good advice from them.

Ray

[Ssouth]

TGCummings, See if you can find out who has been responsible for the work in the past and ask them personally how it has been done. I was awarded the contract for my local utilities company in Nov. When looking at the properties, I was to bid on, they let me borrow one of there employees for a day to ride with me. He had done all of the lawn maintenance before they decided to bid it out. Because he had done the work in the past he was very knowledgable about the specifics. This guy even brought me a list of his old routes. There were 61 sites and he knew exactly what was expected at each site. It took a whole day but without him I would have never known exactly what was to be done at each site. If there is only three sites surely they will let you borrow one of there employees who has been preforming the work for a hour or two.

Good Luck,
Ssouth

[TGCummings]

Ssouth,

Good plan. The General Manager, who has been working the sites with his crew, is going to show me around on Tuesday. :)

-TGC

[Davis TLC]

TGC,

I don't think I'd specify in the contract a specific number of cuts just state that it will be cut and kept looking professional on a need basis as determined by you. Put in the contract you will maintain their grounds for $ XXXX a month for however many months, 9, 10 or 12. Don't give them to much information on number of cuts, there could be some little know-it-all at the business that might point out "Well he cut 4 times this month and only 3 times last month for the same $$". Or they may say you didn't cut as many times as you specified in your contract so we want a refund for that amount. I have seen some new LCO's here fall into that trap.

I am drafting a contract proposal right now to be used in 2001 for any new business I get, I am not specifying the number of cuts, or any of the materials I will be using on the job. I give a brief description of the services I will be providing. It is just basically stating that, I will do the specified jobs for X dollars a month, please sign and return the original to the address listed on the proposal.

Sorry for the long post on this.

[gusbuster]

Originally posted by TGCummings
Hey Folks,


However, I have a question: In my area, there is no off-season. We cut year around, either weekly or bi-weekly

-TGC
Tgc
You answered your own question as to why California L.C.O's don't specify how many cuts we do. It's all weather that controls how many cuts I do a year.

I've been doing small commercials for the last 10 years. With the cost of living, it's all price in our area. I live about 75 miles to the north of you(SFO airport). Give them a good price.

You know as well as me, if you've been in the business long enough that the work is from early March thru October or November(Depends on leaf drop)The cold months are the money maker months for me. A property that take me 45 minutes in June, is now only taking me 10 to 15 minutes. Keep that in mind when giving the price.

Watch out what you put in your contract. Keep it simple. Give a fair price. Goverment contracts are slow payers, so keep that in mind. They do pay though. Don't be suprised if you don't here anything about the contract for awhile. I have gotten some jobs that I put a bid in over a year before.Lawn & Landscpe had a sample contract that you can base your's on in december issue.
John

[Guido]

I got beat too!! TGC, haven't heard you around latley, I'll get ya next time!! You got some good advice here.

My opinion..................sounds like you want to specify a # of cuts more for yourself than for the contract. If they don't specify don't put it in the contract. This way if something happens it doesn't bite you in the butt later on.

[TGCummings]

Thanks again for all the great advice, guys. I'll go talk with the GM of the sites today and I'll let you know how things work out.

Special thanks to my fellow Californians, Jay, Chuck, and John. Your state-specific advice will prove invaluable. Homer, many very special thanks to you for the contract template you provided. A little reworking and this thing will provide the guideline for all future contract situations for Cummings Lawn & Garden.

Wish me luck!

-TGC

[TGCummings]

Quick update:

Interview went very well. There are actually four sites, including the main office, but that site really has just two small plant beds to keep clean. Plus cracks in cement, but they're hardly an afterthought.

The three major sites all have lawns to cut and weedeat. Very little edging, really. The lawns themselves are mostly fields of weeds to chop down, but you find a lot of that out here. Piece o' cake, really. Don't know if I'll keep these places long, but I wrote up a quarterly contract for them. Figure after three months we can sit down and decide whether either of us want to go longer term. The quarterly contract was a request from them, which I would have denied had it not suit my purposes as well. Little extra cash flow while I wait for the Spring Flood, plus a chance to write my first commercial lawn service contract, without a long term to these jobs if they don't pan out to my liking.

The contract itself was an eye-opener to the General Manager, who hadn't expected anything so professional. Definite points there.

The contract is only for the lawn work (and the two weeding beds), but there's more to be had at these sites. If the GM can get this through the Board he'll have 'free rein' to contract out additional work, such as hedges.

We'll see how things turn out. I'll be expecting his call in the middle of next week, after the next Board meeting.

Update ya then! :)

-TGC

[Ssouth]

Congratulations, I've found the hardest part of bidding is getting your foot in the door. And that's exactly what you've done. After the first quarter I would go to them with a list of other services you feel they need. Already have the proposal (bid contract) in your hand, this way when they say what will it cost you can hand them the proposal. This shows you care and have put some extra time in for them.

[TGCummings]

The General Manager of the sites called me tonight to let me know the Board approved my contract! I'll go by tomorrow to go over the details and pick up my signed copy. The GM also told me that the Board approved the use of my company on some additional services I discussed with him, and perhaps more.

Special thanks to my fellow Californians, and to Ssouth, Davis and the others for their invaluable advice in securing my first commercial contract!

Infinite thanks to my buddy, Homer, for his specific insight and contract advice. The Board was apparently quite taken by my professionalism! :)

Score another for the power of LawnSite, my friends. My six-year old company has been almost completely dismantled and rebuilt in the last six months or so, for the better, and it's not something that would've happened without this site, these friends, and your advice.

Thanks again!

-TGC

[TGCummings]

The General Manager of the sites called me tonight to let me know the Board approved my contract! I'll go by tomorrow to go over the details and pick up my signed copy. The GM also told me that the Board approved the use of my company on some additional services I discussed with him, and perhaps more.

Special thanks to my fellow Californians, and to Ssouth, Davis and the others for their invaluable advice in securing my first commercial contract!

Infinite thanks to my buddy, Homer, for his specific insight and contract advice. The Board was apparently quite taken by my professionalism! :)

Score another for the power of LawnSite, my friends. My six-year old company has been almost completely dismantled and rebuilt in the last six months or so, for the better, and it's not something that would've happened without this site, these friends, and your advice.

And this is just the beginning... ;)

Thanks again!

-TGC

[HOMER]

Congratulations! :D

I'm glad to hear things went well for you. Lawnsite is a tool to be used and used again. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I wish it were here when I started, if it had I would have listened to every word and skipped right on by some of those mistakes I made...........and some I still live with!

Again,

Congratulations and good luck.

[gusbuster]

Tgc
Congrats on the contract and many more for you.
Just keep in mind some stuff to expect, just like the residential clients.

They will always ask you to do extra stuff, some of it you may want to do, some of it, you may not want too without extra charges.

Try to keep your operation simple, you'll make money.

Be nice, but stand your ground. If you're doing the work, you'll get more work than you can handle. It may be slow, but will happen.

Just found out myself that our family was awarded another contract with a property mngt company. We will start at the end of other person's contract. Wasn't about price, as we were $300 more a month. It was a recommendation that my uncle got from another G.M. of a different company. The new company wasn't happy about waiting over 3 to 6 weeks for extra services that was requested.

Good luck and hope it works out for you.
John

[TGCummings]

Thanks again, guys.

Talked to the GM this morning, and I'll go by and pick up my contract and the keys to the sites this afternoon. Also, the Board wants a proposal on a house they own next to the main office that'll need some cleaning up, then mowing/edging regularly and some trimming possible.

As for extra work, the GM and I discussed that. Everything over the contracted mowing keep-up at the sites and the weeding at the main office will be charged extra. It's in the contract. ;)

-TGC

[Fantasy Lawns]

We provide service 43- Visits a Year.

Weekly service April thru October and then cutting of property every other week in Dormant season Novemeber thru March

Weekly Service 7 Months: 4 Months they get 4 cuts the other 3 Summer months they get 5 cuts (helps explain why they pay full price in the winter after all 3 Summer months they recieved an extra service and in the Winter they are not really shorted)

Bi-weekly 5 Months: Depending on how you start you Dormant Season (start 1st week in November or do we skip 1st week) this will determine the on/off visits rotation....it's nice set it up to have x-mas week off.....so in 2001 we service 1st week in Nov. to have week of Dec 25th off

Anyways 2 of those 5 Months the customer will recieve 3 visits .....and 3 of those Months they get 2 vistis

So .......in the Summer they had 31 visits and Winter they had 12 ......which comes to 43 visits

Good Luck




[Edited by theleven on 01-10-2001 at 12:53 PM]