RUBBER CUTTING EDGE??

[FIREMAN]

some of my residentials have paver driveways...are rubber cutting edges any good? and is there a downside to them as far as scraping black top clean?

[John Allin]

Polyurethane works much better than rubber. Cost about the same.

Contact plowking35 for information on urethane edges and costs.

[plowking35]

yes give me a call at 860-859-0739 and I will be happy to discuss the edge with you
Dino

[Kent Lawns]

My extensive experience has shown that polyurethane works about the same as rubber depending on configuration. It does last longer, but it more expensive, too.

All in all, I'd buy polyurethane for that application, but if you believe all the claims about polyurethane, I have a bridge to sell you.

[plowking35]

Kent Lawns
Its obvious that you havent tried one of my edges yet. Give me a call, I will be glad to send an edge to try. If you dont think it lives up to everything I have ever said or written about them, I will take it back no ? asked.
Dino

[Kent Lawns]

No, I probably haven't and perhaps I should.

I have used the edges from Fallline, MTS and from Pabco Industries.

[plow kid]

Are urethane edges any good with the snoway down pressure system?

[plowking35]

Yes they will work fine with the down pressue on snowway. Alan from VT has them on his snowway.
Dino

[thelawnguy]

Originally posted by Kent Lawns
...but if you believe all the claims about polyurethane, I have a bridge to sell you.

I bought a polyurethane edge back in November and got to use it 3 times so far. I agree, some of the claims made are, for lack of a better word, exaggerated. I guess it depends on the type of weather and clearing you are doing; remember, in Dinos market area it usually gets warm enough to mix with rain every time it snows so he has a different environment than someone more inland area. They still peel up turf, though once the ground is frozen they are more forgiving than steel. They still plow up piles of gravel. Certain types of snow they do not clear as well as steel edge. I notice no difference in back-dragging ability. They are very quiet-noticeable difference in noise level. Absorb almost all vibration that was par for the course when plowing with steel edge. Can you whack a 1 1/2 inch manhole and run it over like it wasnt even there? No way, unless maybe if you have a full trip moldboard. I can see already this edge will last a looonnngggg time, much longer than a plain steel edge. Its also one of its detriments, as it hasnt yet worn all the way in to the proper angle, so it chatters excessively on dry pavement. I may run it on a table saw and cut an angle into it.

With nothing to lose but an hours mount/dismount time Id give it a try. Would I buy another one? Jury is still out. Will I return this edge for a no questions asked return? No, overall I like it over the steel edge. Just dont expect it to dice slice and julienne fry everything it encounters.

[snow]

No need to quote the entire post of previous reply.
Dino

I've been waiting for someone to step forward and give an opinion about them. I think we've all heard how great they are on gravel roads and won't tear the turf, but now we know that they still tear up turf and track gravel. I know a lot of people were waiting for an honest opinion, and you stepped forward in giving one. i think all the people interested in buy a urethane edge thank you.

Bryan

[Edited by plowking35 on 01-02-2001 at 07:06 PM]

[SCL]

Can anyone help Bryan out by explaining how to not have the entire previous post in his reply. Bryan, I appreciate your post, really!, but no need to quote what we've already seen. Turn off the bold too, please, as it gives the impression that your shouting. Keep posting and replying though as the stuff you put in has been good.

Not lecturing, just trying to help out.
Scott

[Kent Lawns]

I agree 100% with the lawnguy. I will continue to buy polyurethane for certain applications, especially on our backplows.

plowking35 implies that his edges are superior to Fall-Line, MTS and Pabco and while I'm willing to try anything, I've been around long enough to know if it sounds too good to be true, it generally is.

[snow]

Moved this post to the moderators forum, no appreciable value in what was written. If they dont agree with me, it will be moved back.
Dino

[Edited by plowking35 on 01-02-2001 at 07:10 PM]

[mowing king]

can i get a poly edge for a boss v plow 9.2". i will need it soon. please reply.

[plowking35]

Give me call at 860-859-0739 and I will be happy to order an edge for you.
Bill sorry to hear that some things are not quite up to your satisfaction, but all the things I have ever said about the edges is true. I will back them up 110% and would never exaggerate just to sell an edge. I really dont need what little money I make per edge sale, to ruin my reputation. If you want an honest opinion of the urethane edge, from someone who has more than 5 hrs plow time on one, read my paper I wrote at my website. The edge will push up stone driveways, but no way shape or form will it pull up gravel driveways. I purposely drove up to and over curbs this last storm, with out raising the plow and it just glided right over the curb, no harm no foul. My edges are from MTS, so Kent if you have tried those edges, and were not satisfied, please call and tell me why, we need this feed back to help with our R&D program.
And Brian I dont appreciate the inference that I have lied in my posts about how well the urethane edge works. Everything I have written about the edges is 100% true and factual.
Dino

[Kent Lawns]

Actually we have several edges from MTS, I believe even 2 different types from that particular company.

We have well over 3,000 truck/hours on all our edges combined: 5 different types from 3 different manufacturers'.

I'm not UNSATISFIED with polyurethane edges, but our experience has certainly been different than some of those posted here.

[snow]

Originally posted by plowking35
And Brian I dont appreciate the inference that I have lied in my posts about how well the urethane edge works. Everything I have written about the edges is 100% true and factual.
Dino
I'm sorry, i just appreciated Bill addressing some problems he's had with them. I know you have used them a lot ,
starting last season. I just wanted to hear some problems they had with them. If his are tearing up grass and still tracking gravel, then what could be wrong with them? If one edge does it, won't they all. I know i've read a lot and heard you pushing them, i just wanted to know any problems people had. i didn't mean to interfere, i just wanted to hear opinions on what happens. I want to here what people say, you've sold a lot, but before bill you were the only one talking about how great they were. i'm waiting for john allin and alan to say how they work for them, since they're in different conditions. Not meant to say you lied, just found it weird that they did something you said they wouldn't do. But, i'd trust your opinion more since you have over a seasons use on them.

Bryan

[BRL]

My review after first storm trying them:
Well I sure hope they don't tear up turf because I plowed the heck out of my back yard to make room to park broken equipment, get to spare plow & trailer etc. Snow was too deep to tell what was going on but I was assuming based on the advertised claims that I wasn't doing too much damage. I definitely pushed up a lot of gravel in places, but no where near the same amount as with the steel edges. Quiet was cool, although there were some sleepy times that the steel would have helped with ;). I have the chattering on one edge but not the second plow with one. Discussed this with Dino & we're pretty sure we have figured out why & the problem can be addressed (when I get a chance). Backdragging was incredible. The edge on the main plow has a nice angle worn in already, however I can tell that it will still last longer than the steel. I do my local gas station (they service my trucks is the only reason why, reminded me of why I don't do gas stations http://lawnsite.com/images/icons/icon13.gif ). The plow went right over the tank cap covers without tripping blade. Was able to push snow right up & over curbs many times without tripping also. I believe I didn't hang up A-frame on the curbs because the Uedge makes the plow taller from sticking out below steel edge? That was cool in this storm. I was able to get down to black pavement at my open or ATM'd accounts before any competitor's lots showed black, and I believe the U contributed to that. Overall I was pleased & noticed great improvements over the steel ones. Although Bill has me worried now because the weather he describes is more like the winter weather we normally experience here also. We'll see what happens.

[PINEISLAND1]

I've used the u edges now for about a month, and a very busy month. I am very satisfied with them, and feel they are living up to the claims. I pushed alot of gravel, and over alot of lawns, and had no problems. In fact, now i have a narrow strip in the middle that keeps digging up grass, and its from the rubber "horses hoof" in the center of my Boss. It is the only thing that digs in. I am currently trying to figure out a way to replace that with urethane!

I mounted my edge too low initially, and ripped the urethane on one side. MTS stood behind their edge even though it was probably my fault, and shipped me a new one the next day, no questions asked! Customer service is awesome, and they do believe in and stand behind everything they say!

The edge will last a heck of a long time, I can tell that. It will more than make up for the additional cost over steel.

Overall I am very satisfied, and would highly recommend one of the MTS edges.

[Eric ELM]

You wrote: I mounted my edge too low initially, and ripped the urethane on one side.

What is the correct amount to have below the steel part of the blade? How low did you have yours? I have one ordered and was just wondering. Thanks

[PINEISLAND1]

Eric-

Start out with about 1.5 inches below the steel cutting edge.

I started out with a little over two inches below in the center, but with the smile worn on the edge of my steel, it amounted to about three on the ends. Combine that with the fact that my steel edge was still a good 2.5 inches below the moldboard, it left about 5.5 inches unsupported in the back. Plus I extended it about three inches past the outside edges like Dino did, and on the very end there was just too much "play" and unsupported material. It cleans much better now with about 1.5 inches showing. And frankly, it wears so well that I may be able to go all season on that first 1.5 inches, before I drill a new set of holes and move it down.

[plowking35]

Tom
I am glad that you were able to resolve your problems. Keep us informed on how it works.
Dino

[Eric ELM]

Tom Thanks for the info.

[thelawnguy]

"I'm sorry, i just appreciated Bill addressing some problems he's had with them"

Please dont misunderstand, I in no way intended to infer that I had a "problem" with the edge. I never expected it to live up to its gravel drive claims, and since I have no gravel drives on my route except for the one I did as a experimental favor Sunday (yes it piled up pea stone as well as any other plow did over the years) it was essentially a non-issue. The urethane edge does not dig up frozen turf; neither does a steel edge. It still dug up turf as observed back on Dec 8 when the ground was still relatively soft. No surprises there either.

FWIW the edge has over 30 hours plow time on it, not 5. I dont know where Dino arrived at that number.

I am a little concerned as to why this discussion was so heavily edited as of late, and "moved to the moderators forum" :confused:

What I have posted isnt much different than that which I have emailed the several members who have requested my opinion in the past several weeks.

Happy New Year to all...

[Diceman]

Hi there guys. I am normally one that just reads these posts and don't have much to say but feel that I need to respond to this subject.

This is my second season using urethane and I can't say enough good about them. If used incorrectly just about anything can do damage. Earlier this year I pushed some snow across my yard (which was pretty soft) and I had some minor damage done, but I don't even want to think of what my lawn would have looked like with a steel edge going across that same soft ground.

I have been plowing a lot (which is half paved and turns to gravel) with another truck which didn't have a urethane edge on. I pushed snow across the lot onto the gravel area without a single problem...smooth as glass, the other driver tried to do the same thing and when he made the pass onto the gravel his plow dug in and pushed up a big pile of gravel and he ate some steering wheel. To say that urethane will not move ANY stone or gravel would be wrong. I'm sure some get pushed up with the snow but would guess that it would be less than 5% of what would be pushed up with a steel edge.

We have a driveway that is asphalt grindings, put down in the fall. The home owner was afraid that plowing the drive would remove all of the grindings...he was wrong. In fact he was VERY impressed with the job that the urethane edge did.

At the end of the last storm on my way home (1:30ish in the morning) I stopped to take care of a drive that we had just picked up. We had never plowed this particular drive before, but luckily I had done a drive by that morning before the storm and have a couple of key land marks picked out. The drive comes off the main road for about 150 - 200 feet then forks around to either side of the house. I made a pass in from the road to where I thought the fork should be but couldn't find the landmarks. I stopped and got out to check and found that I was 15 - 20 feet to the right of the drive, boy did I feel foolish, but the point is that it didn't tear the lawn up at all. I won't even charge for the extra driveway that I plowed for the guy.

I feel that the "play" experienced by PineIsland1 can be attributed to the fact that there was way too much overhang. 5.5 inches on the bottom plus 3 on the side...too much. I have about 1.5 on the bottom and 3 on the side and that works great. Cleans the curbs much better and no damage either.

Well I have rambled on long enough so will end this for now. I hope that everyone out there had a safe and Happy New Year.

Brian

THINK SNOW!!!

[plowking35]

The posts that were moved had no impact on the discussion. In fact they were not even related to this thread, part of why it was moved.
And for the record, pea stone and gravel are two different materials. I never claimed that stone wouldnt be moved with the edge, but gravel wont be moved with it. Ask Alan, he plows alot of gravel and is very happy with the edge performance.
Dino

[John Allin]

Since someone as specifically asked for my opinion on this topic, I shall expound abit on my experience thus far.....

We had built about 15 sno-pushers prior to purchasing them from Pro-Tech. We now have 42 pushers up and running during a storm. The ones we built ourselves had steel edges. Last week we installed a urethane edge (at Dino's request) to test it. We installed it on a 14 footer the day before New Years Eve (1/30/00).

By The Way... we have two other urethane edges on straight blades on trucks since near the beginning of the season. Got them (from Dino) because of some special coatings on parking decks and drives that we plow. For THAT application, and based upon our experience this season, urethane is the best, in my opinion - because we have found that rubber (on the plows) won't scrape down and steel scraped up everything (including the special rubberized coating - ouch...). Now... these trucks plow other accounts too and thus far the urethane edges have performed as promised. However.... I would imagine that if the driver actually drives into an ATM the urethane edge will do just as much damage as a steel edge. In defense of Dino - he never told me that the urethane edge would do NO damage, but if used as directed (and not driving into buildings and ATM's) they would perform as promised. Thus far, this has been the case.

Back to the snowpusher..... we have used it for a total of about 20 hours since installing the urethane edge. No noticable wear on the lower edge yet which DID surprise us. Operator feedback is that he "feels" safer because he has hit some manhole covers in the past - and insisted that we install a 5 point harness safety belt so he wouldn't get ejected from the cab (and we have done that on a good number of the loaders we use for the same reason). He "feels" (thru using it this past week) that the urethane edge will be much more operator forgiving when/if this situation arises (and it may have already and he just doesn't know it - which would be good).

We are using this sno-pusher on a site that we recently secured, that has little actual pavement. They were plowing it themselves up until the snows started coming daily. Lots are mostly gravel/stone/dirt. In the three times we have plowed that site there has been no noticable movement of the ground surface - however, the temps here have been in the teens at night and 20's during the day. Temps are to go to mid 30's late this week and we will then have different plowing conditions at that site.

On the paved sites - the edge is doing a very nice job. Most of our sites are "plowed and salted" so bare pavement is expected. We have cut the tonage of salt required on one site almost in half because we are achieving a better finished product after plowing due to the "squeegie effect" of the urethane.

Now.... compared to the rubber edges on the Pro-Techs ??? Jury is still out on that one. It's only been a week - and even in our market, with plowing every day we cannot give a accurate comparative assessment yet. We cannot "cut" at all with the rubber edges, although we have found that we have to check the rubber edges every 8-10 plowings to adjust them for wear. Don't know yet on the urethane edge if we will have to adjust it as much as the rubber edges. Need more time.

We have made the decision (and I have already informed Dino) that we will be changing from steel edges to urethane edges on the rest of our (home built) sno-pushers. This will be done over time as the cost of the urethane edges is such that I am uncomfortable ordering in a dozen of them all at once. Winter is profitable, but my financial person (and some of you can guess who THAT is) would freak if I submitted an invoice for $5,000 (due upon receipt) for cutting edges !! So we will probably buy one or two a month until we get them all changed. Besides, with the kind of winters we get here, we couldn't possibly bring all the pushers in from the field (most are stored off site at customer locations) and change them all over in any short period of time.

As for Dino and his enthusiasm for his products.... I wouldn't purchase any product from a salesperson that didn't believe in his product(s). As for being honest... I have not found Dino to misslead or oversell his product (as of yet). If you think Dino is enthusiastic, you should hear Vince talk. Now HE definitely believes that urethane edges will slice and dice and do it all.

(just kidding Vince....)

As for editing posts.... I'm against editing any post that is not intentionally derogatory or vulgar towards anyone. However, if it is determined that someone as defamed another member, used vulgar language, intentionally "gone after" another member, or made a statement that is against the interest of Lawnsite or any of its members - delete it altogether. I can tell you all that when the SIMA forum is up and running (soon.... soon....) we will use the same guidelines (within the parameters noted above) that Lawnsite uses with regards to editing posts. These guys (Chuck, Eric and Dino) have an awfully hard job moderating this forum, and they are human (just like us). They have the job - I'm in favor of letting them do it. I don't want it, and (from what I've learned while working to get SIMA's new site up and running), neither should any of you. It's time consuming. VERY time consuming.

At the end of this season.... and if someone asks.... I will give my professional opinion on urethane edges after a season of use (which in alot of your markets would equate to about 5 seasons use). I will not alter my opinions because of Dino or Vince - but at this juncture... I would say that the urethane edges are performing (for me) as promised.

Sorry this is so long. Hope the information helps.

[Greenman2ooo]

Let me preface this with the fact that Dino has been very helpful to me and many others. I have no motive to bash anyone. However, I do not like the fact that Dino edits posts much more often than Eric or Chuck. The posts edited (now and in the past) generally border on disagreement with what Dino has said in the past.

People on forums give both good and bad feedback and advice. Let us, the readers, decide what is fact and what is fiction rather than letting Dino or anyone else decide for us and editing posts.

Please, stop editing/closing/moving the posts that are not offensive!

[BRL]

Ditto Greenman.

[DYNA PLOW]

i have paid my 300.00 to Dino a month ago
and have plowed with the edge many times in december.
i will tell you the first thing i do not like about the edge. i own a c-store that see's alot of traffic during the day,so when it snows it gets packed. the edge does a crappy job of scraping packed snow. i have a snoway with downpressure. my dad has a western with steel edge and it scrapes better than the edge. nothing short of a wheel loader with down pressure will scrape it ,that i understand.
i will keep this edge because... gravel,grass,uneven sidwalks,backdragging,manhole covers. it out shines steel in these aspects. it's quitier and easier on asphalt as well as easier on the truck because it absorbs the impact.
and the most important thing
I LOVE THE COLOR YELLOW!!!
hope this helps.
i am trying to close a deal on a v plow,so my edge may be for sale. you can bet your $$s i will call dino for an edge for the V.
dan

[RB]

I bought one of these edges from MTS. Although it wasn't the edge for me (I prefer a steel), it definitely does what it is advertised to.

I still have a piece of this edge from when I had to cut it down to fit my plow if anyone would like me to send it to them so they can see what it looks like and feels like.

Just email me with address and I'll get it in the mail tomorrow, 1/4/01.

[Eric ELM]

Probably the biggest reason I don't edit posts here as much as Dino or Chuck is, I have 14 other forums on Lawnsite to take care of, but yes I do have help on some of them. Yes it is very time consuming and the Lawn forum is normally very busy. Chuck Smith is now working full time and has less time to moderate here too. This is why Dino was asked to be a moderator to help out and we knew that winter time is the busiest time for this forum and we needed help. I saw what Dino has moved lately and I agreed with him on the posts that were moved or deleted. Don't be so hard on a moderator, it's not an easy job. We have to make decissions that affect all members and the website itself. We try to keep it clean and running smoothly.

Please help us keep it this way.
Thanks

[PINEISLAND1]

Diceman-

The thing that makes me wonder is this- if you have 1.5 inches exposed below your steel edge in front, how much is unsupported in the back? Or is your steel cutting edge worn all the way up to the moldboard?

Because I did mount mine with two inches below the steel edge the first time, and three inches extending out the sides as you and Dino have. The only difference that there could posssibly be is in the amount of steel you have left extending below the moldboard. I would've turned my steel edge over, but with the way the Boss edges are cut that isn't possible.

[thelawnguy]

Am I the only one using a trip-edge plow with a urethane edge? I get the feeling most you guys have Meyer/Boss/Western units (full trip moldboard).

[plowking35]

We have many running on western v plows, they have trip edges as well. However I was talking with Vinnie today, and we surmised that perhaps the forward angle on the trip edge of the fisher may be causing the lower performance on that type of plow. The more verticle this type of edge is run on, the better it performs. And even tho the western is a trip edge plow, they make it with a much smaller base angle, so the forward angle is much lower.
I actually never really liked the fisher base angle, it does a really poor scraping job.
Yes on dicemans plow, the edge was worn right down to the moldboard.
As far as pack goes, you really need to apply salt before the storm, so that pack wont develope, and it will stay slushy underneath. Like you said, nothing short of serious down pressure will help you. I sometimes wonder myself if a steel edge would have worked better, but then I look at a lot next to mine, and there is no difference. I have always stated that the urethane edges do no worse or better at scraping packed snow, although we have been able to cut into the corner of the pack, and peal it up. It takes some time, but it will work. Leave the blade down, and just drive forward to reverse and it will cut the pack about 1/2" at a time.
Dino

[PINEISLAND1]

Have you guys ever had any luck with salt apps to break up that pack after it forms? I've got a couple accounts that I may try it on this coming week, and its supposed to warm into the 30's for a couple days? Is it possible?

I have very little experience with deicing, so maybe this is a dumb question?

[plowking35]

Actually if you get temps in the 30's, just plow that up with out the salt. Unless the pack is 1/2" or less, the salt will just dilute out, before being able to work down to the asphalt. Once the paved surface warms up, it should break the bond.
Dino

[BRL]

Bill,
I have a U-edge on a full trip meyer & on a trip edge Fisher. I didn't plow with the Fisher but the guy driving it said it was better than the steel edge of past. I'll try to plow with it a little next time to compare the difference between the 2. I will say I didn't have anywhere near the ssame amount of chatter with the Fisher one.
Dyna & Pineisland,
I had some spots with bad hard pack also. I found that I was able to dig into it a little better with backdragging, although it didn't clear all the way down. And it wasn't any worse than steel edges trying the same thing in the past. These were places that were closed for the holiday so I didn't do any salting on them, but you would definitely want to salt beforeduring the storm to keep that stuff loose so that you are able to scrape it later.
PineIsland.
I have the same problem as you with the Meyer edge. The steel edge it replaced was relatively new so I have 2" past the steel edge & over 3" between there & the mold board. I can't flip the steel edge over either because it will interfere with the Pro Wings. So, even though it is pretty cheesy, what I did was drill holes into the U-edge right below the steel edge. I then put bolts through with real big washers to hook onto the steel edge to give it some support. Hard to explain but if you want I could E-mail you a picture. Seemed to help a lot, although, after pushing 20" for 40 or so hours the washers have slipped off of the steel edge & I'll have to redo them.

[Greenman2ooo]

I wasn't intending to be "hard" on anyone, just stating my mind. I see conflict of interest when someone is selling something and editing posts concerning that same product. It sets a tone, one which says don't disagree with the salesman/moderator--even when that may not be the intent.

I'm not implying Dino has done anything improper, just stating things as I see them.

I notice most posts edited here have something to do with products sold by Dino.

I don't own this site or have any say so. However, I still have an opinion. I think in this case editing and selling don't mix.

I'm not trying to begrudge anyone making money. I am sure he can't make selling edges what he can plowing! I am not begrudging anyone helping us out by being a moderator for Lawnsite. I am, however, stating the two don't mix and wish that Dino would either moderate or sell products, not both.

With over 2000 members, surely we could get a volunteer to moderate and free Dino up to educate us regarding cutting edge (no pun intended) techniques.

I certainly don't mean to offend Dino or anyone involved with Lawnsite, just want my opinion heard and wonder if anyone else really cares or has noticed what I have pointed out.

[Rooster]

Interesting comments by all concerned to say the least.

Greenman2000 - you have a point, well taken to a certain extent.
Likewise do many others who have taken the time here to post.

Just a thought of my own. It is hard to be a participant and a moderator at the same time. It may be that others wish that they could be a distributor of a product, but choose not to, which in America is their right.
Personally all feedback that I have read, will assist me with information that I do not have, and can gain for free just by logging on to this forum, thus saving me time and money in the long run.
As for personal attacks, they are not good anytime for any reason, but do get out for what ever the reason. But expanding on a negative comment just causes more negative comments and hurt feelings.

Thanks to all for their personal experience, sorry for the long reply!

[plowking35]

Look, what was edited had nothing, I repeat nothing to do with urethane edges. Brian Krois took offence to being chided about double posteing. He them went on a personal attack with SCL. The post was about quotes in a post and nothing I repeat nothing to do with urethane edges. In fact I will bring the post back so you can look at it.
If someone has a negative comment regarding urethane edges, go ahead and post it, I wont edit the comment unless it becomes personal. At that time, I will remove the personal content and leave anything that is related to the flow of discussion.
Even the senior moderator has backed me up, so why not just trust my judgement.
I read every post in every thread, and as you know that is a lot of time, and since the editing issue of 2 months ago, I havent done a bit of editing. SO the post by BKrois was completely not needed, and did nothing for this discussion.
If his post had been in another thread, it would have been moved as well.
Again I do not appreciate the implication that I would use my position as moderator to move a thread in a certian direction, or to keep members personal opinions from the rest of the members.
When I post is moved, it gos the moderators forum, and I personally emailed the post to the other 2 moderators. If they thought I was in error with the editing, they will repost the info.Since they did not repost the info, I guess I was justified in moving it.
Its not a one man show, we all have to agree with the move.
Dino

[plowking35]

Here is the deleted post by Brian. As you can see it has no mention of urethane let alone anything to do with urethane or any other product that I endorse.
Dino

Thanks Scott. this is called a "quote." It comes in bold. if you were moderator, then mayb you could do something about my post. we have 3 moderators, and if there was something bad i did they would've been on top of it. why do you single me out? the lawnguy quoted someone,why didn't you yell at him? why didn't you yell at the other people who quote others? ok, there's where things go bad, because you singled me out and accused me of something which most people do, that is to quote others. If you appreciated my post, then why are you complaining? I hate to break it to you, but you can't hear people speak on this forum, you read words, so i don't know how you assume i'm yelling. it wasn't a smart move to single me out because i quoted someone, if you do this to me, give everyone else the same speach.

Bryan

[Greenman2ooo]

Dino-

The "implication" was not put out on the forum for your approval/disapproval. I stated a fact. Also, you may have missed the line I wrote in my last post saying I was implying nothing of the sort about you. I sincerely have nothing against you. I am not trying to defame or belittle you.

The thread you discuss from "two months ago" was involving people's negative comments about a product you are selling.

Do as you like. I am simply stating there is a conflict of interest and want people to be aware. When I started reading the snowplow forum all I heard was Magic
this and Polyurethane that.

Now you have the ability to edit posts concerning those same products. Whether you abuse that power or not, I disapprove of you or anyone else being put in that position.

I don't have a problem with the products you sell, nor your enthusiasm for them. I personally won't buy a product the salesman isn't enthused with.

I'm just one guy here out of over 2ooo forum members. I obviously won't change <b>your</b> mind.

I appreciate your being up front and showing us what you have moved from the post. However, none of that changes the fact there is a conflict of interest here.

If you were Mother Theresa, I would say "there is a conflict of interest, let's get someone to replace her if she continues to sell products on a forum she moderates."
And yes, I do know she has passed away. It made for a funny illustration, though.

[Deere John]

With due respect to all involved, Greenman does have a valid point concerning conflict of interest.

Generally speaking, one of the main reasons that people are so synical about anyone in politics, for example, is the obvious and highly visible potential for someone to abuse trust through the power of their position. For this reason, most governments (and larger corporations, and securities regulators) have policies and/or regulations to counter the obvious.

I work full time in logging/forestry, and my employer (6,000 employees) requires that all management staff annually sign a confidentiality agreement, including specific conflict of interest guidelines. Considering that my pay cheque and bonus are in some way dependent upon the integrity of others, I appreciate the requirement.

Specifically speaking, regarding Dino, I have had the pleasure of an unsolicited phone call from him last spring. We talked at length about the snow business and innovative products. I wish all in the business had the enthusiasm that he has, for he is obviously dedicated to the profession (certainly more than I am able to be).

In this case, many regular members here are well aware of Dino's interests and position. I do agree that there is a conflict of interest, but I also am confident that Dino is of character to not put himself in a position where he would be fired upon by members from far and wide.

[John Allin]

I think we are all tired from lots of plowing, and we should all just lighten up abit.

Let it go... both of you. You've all had your say, and now lets move on....

We got more important stuff to worry about.... like collecting all that money you've billed out !!!

Isn't the snow business great ???

[Eric ELM]

I agree with you on that John, every word.

The checks are coming in already. :)

[Gordon]

Has anyone tried the urethane edge on a non-trip blade? Such as a landpride backblade. I wonder how well they would hold up pushing snow?
Gordon

[plowking35]

On a plow such as that any give would be better than a metal edge. It should work fine, I know vinnie has one on his tractor and it has no trip.
To John Allin
Sorry Dad, I wont argue with the nice people anymore.LOL
Dino

[Chuck Smith]

Well, this thread has certainly taken off! I feel I should speak up on this topic. It has drifted off topic a little, since the topic is edges, and it went to Dino's position here on LS. Moderating is not an easy job. The old addage "you can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time" applies here. The same as any other moderated discussion. What Dino has edited and moved, myself and Eric have agreed on as well. Any of us can move a post back at any time, if we feel it didn't need to be removed. As you can see, none have been moved back.

The reason we have the moderator forum, is to use it as a holding area for posts we feel don't belong on the forums. We add to the moved threads stating our opinions of them, and agreeing or disagreeing about them being moved.

Chuck Keough (the webmaster and owner of Lawn Site)also reviews that forum, and if he wants to move a post back, he can at any time.

In case any of you are wondering (and judging from it being asked in e mails) being a moderator is <B>not</B> a paid position. We take time out of our busy schedules, to review all the posts in this forum, (and for Eric the other 14 forums God bless him!) and try to keep things on track.

As far as it being a conflict of interest for Dino to sell products, and moderate here, I see no conflict, or "abuse of power". Like John Allin said, we are all human, and interpret things differently. Dino or Eric might move a post I would have left, or vice versa.

As Eric mentioned, I have less time to monitor this forum than 6 months ago. I bet Eric wishes he had someone like Dino to help him moderate. As John pointed out, it is not an easy job. I can't wait to see who moderates the SIMA forum!

Hopefully we can get back on track. Remember, the main reason posts are edited are for the reasons John Allin mentioned. If someone inferred <B>you</B> were a liar, whoever you are, you'd hope that post was removed, right? If someone attacked you personally on this forum, you'd want the post removed, right? I have removed posts simply because someone asked me too, because the subject of the thread included their name. If the thread has no merit, then I remove it. I can e mail the poster asking them to repost, with a different subject.

In case any of you are wondering, I have had years of experience moderating discussion forums, and years of training in the same area, on a netwrok of forums 100X the size of this one. Believe me, moderating is no easy task.

~Chuck

Oh, and HAPPY NEW YEAR everyone!

[Greenman2ooo]

You will never see a conflict with your head stuck in the sand. Chuck Keough, the owner of lawnsite, didn't email me inquiring about this situation because he thought he could not please everyone!

Dino has no right to edit a post involving products he sells. Not because he is a bad person or not trustworthy, rather because you don't put someone in the position to abuse power in the first place! Dino is a great guy and has helped me tremendously. I don't believe Dino is a liar, nor should others imply he is. However, the reason people have that attitude is clear to me--they see the potential for a conflict of interest. This has NOTHING, I repeat NOTHING to do with Dino. This has EVERYTHING to do with Lawnsite needing to create a simple policy.

<b>Rather than coming up with every excuse in the book why this situation is OK, why not find a simple solution. Here it is: If there is a problem with a post that involves either magic or polyurethane edges that is questionable, Dino should point it out by email to the other two moderators.

If Chuck Smith or Eric Elm find the offending post needs to be edited, edit it. That is pretty simple. This policy is one way to further ensure checks and balances that this site already has in place.</b>

According to Dino, that would have involved two emails in the past two months. I'm sure Chuck Smith or Eric Elm could find the time to edit two "extra" posts in two months.

No matter how great a guy he is, I don't think anyone should have to wonder if the information on poly and magic has been altered by Dino when they see a post has been edited and has his name in it. Obviously, there are others who question this if you pay ANY attention to the posts involved. Some of them may not be as outspoken, but read the posts and you can see there is some negative sentiment about Magic and Polyurethane on this forum. That negative sentiment is why we are having this discussion. That negative sentiment is why people have bordered on calling an honest, helpful guy a liar.

Just "having my say" doesn't mean squat to me. Letting me spill my guts when you are unwilling to listen with an open mind isn't satisfaction, in my book. Please, I respectfully submit you change your policy. It is only fair to every reader of this forum. Using the solution I presented, Dino is still able to moderate and sell his wares with NO conflict of interest and no PERCEIVED conflict of interest.



[Edited by Greenman2ooo on 01-05-2001 at 10:52 AM]

[John Allin]

Time to close this thread.....