wright stander and the 17 hp kawasaki (again)

[geogunn]

there has been alot of discussion abought the wright stander on the forum lately and it has been interesting.

HOWEVER, is the 17 hp kaw big enough for this machine?

if you consider all of the comments made here, many think the 17 kaw isn't that strong. I have no personal experience with this unit.

my point being that if the 17 isn't that strong, is it adequate at all for the 48 inch cut wright stander.

in my town the same dealer sells gravely and wright. he has a real good reputation.

we also have a dane dealer but I'm not as sure about them. the gravely dealer only sells equipment. the dane dealer is a retail outlet for a garden store and you never see the service people.

GEO

[JimVelke]

Hi Geogunn-
The 17 Kaw is our most popular engine on a 48" Stander. We offer a good range in hp for each deck size based on what people have bought or asked for. If you look at our web-site you can get an idea of what is most popular. http://www.wrighmfg.com The engine offered in the middle of a range for each deck size will be what most people think they need. Note: Not many would buy the 52" with 17 Kaw if it wasn't enough power for the 48". The 17 Kaw is very popular on our 52" Stander.
You can get some good advise from other users but consider that thier grass conditions (type of grass, often wet grass, length they cut, etc) may be different than yours.
I suggest that you get a demo if you're not sure.

[Richard Martin]

I recently removed a 14 Kaw and replaced it with a 17 Kaw on my 50" gear drive Gravely. It has power to spare now. The questions I would ask of Jim would be how much more than the Gravely does the Stander weigh. My Gravely is around 460 lbs with my sulky. I would also want to know how much more HP does the Stander's hydro system waste compared to a gear drive system. If the Stander's weight and drive train waste is comparable to that of my Gravely then I would have to conclude that the 17 Kaw has enough power.

[geogunn]

thanks jim--I had figured you would weigh in on this and of course you probably know that it's as a result of your contributions recent contributions that I ask the question.

jim, I haven't done alot of checking on the wright because I have just started to consider one. what is the blade speed on those things and how do they handle high grass? it's very important to me to find out how they do because I get a bunch of crap lawn cuts that make up my "gravey" if you know what I mean.

richard--I think I asked you but can't remember. did you re-motot with a single or double, electric start or yank?

thanks.

GEO

[Richard Martin]

It's a twin cylinder pull start. I have Mobil 1 in it so pull starts are very easy even in 16 degree weather.

[JimVelke]

Richard- The 48" and 52" are about 700 lbs.(48" has a weight bar)
The hp required to run either type of drive system is about the same. That's why many OEM's offer the same engine options on their belt drives as they offer for their hydros.
For example: if your 50" Gravely uses 4 hp to run the drive system, the 52" Stander may use 4 1/2 hp.
Again the best way to determine what you need is to demo the machine on your toughest lawn.

Geo- The 48" blade tip speed is 15576 fpm or 177mph.(not as fast as our other deck sizes)
I have an awesome picture that was e-mailed to me from Florida of our 36" with 17kaw bushhogging 8 foot tall grass.

[geogunn]

jim--there is a correction needed in your above web address.

it's : http://www.wrightmfg.com

thanks.

GEO

[osc]

We have 2 kaw 17's on 61" hydro wb's. They do surprisingly well as far as power goes. We don't take these machines into bush hog situations but they do fine in normal lawn cutting. I would think a 48" deck would be a great fit for this engine especially if you run a belt drive. You should have enough power for that.
On the flip side, we have had some issues with good service on these engines. Both engines blew up in the first month of use. One was replaced and the other got a ring job. Getting parts from Kaw was also a bad experience. It took 6 months to get them fixed because kaw had to respond on the warranty and when they did, they sent the wrong rings on 4 seperate occasions. Then they told the dealer that the correct rings were not available. Also when the dealer disassembled the ring job engine, he found the governor was not even hooked up and the bearing was rolling around in the bottom of the crank case. Who knows? I am surprised that engine ran as good as it did.
These motors have air filters that must be changed religiously or you get dirt going right on by to the intake and there goes your cylinder walls. They suck beaucoupe air for cooling and you have to really take care to clean the cooling fins or you'll cook the motor; more so than Kohlor. Oil dirties more quickly as well.
But hey, I like Kaws and the 14.5 is one of the all time great small engines. The only other motor I could compare the 17's with is the older Kohlor Magnum 18 horse which seemed to have power to burn on a 61" deck hydro wb. That mower would actually bush hog 5 ft hay. The Kaw 17's won't do that but hopefully they won't need to.

Happy Mowing!

[JimVelke]

OSC- We were aware that the 17 Kaw had overheating issues a few years back when the flywheel screen was plastic and clogged with grass easily. We took on the 17 right after they fixed that problem by using a new steel screen.

Geo- Thanks, Too late to fix it now.

[Richard Martin]

Jim Velke wrote:

<b><i>The 48" blade tip speed is 15576 fpm or 177mph.(not as fast as our other deck sizes)</b></i>

Wow! You are really giving up some tip speed aren't you? Is this because you are using the same pulleys on all of your machines regardless of blade length?

[JimVelke]

Richard- YES, same pulleys on all Standers. The trade off is having less belt contact on a smaller blade pulley which would make it more likely to slip. The Clutch pulley is the largest available.
Other OEM's do the same.
Look at what BRL said about his speed and cut quality under "Wright Stander Again". He has a 48" Stander.

[geogunn]

thanks to all for responding...but the point is fairly moot.

I went by the dealer that had wrights back in the summer and he has dropped them. he said he sold four of them and could not do anything much else with them. he returned or traded the fifth unit.

HOWEVER, the info on the 17 kaw has been very useful because I would like my next unit to have at least that much motor.

it really would be nice to pick up a good used unit for the right money. I'm always on the lookout.

GEO

[Richard Martin]

Jim Velke wrote:

<b><i>Other OEM's do the same.</b></i>

Then how is that Exmark, Dixie Chopper and others are able to offer bts in excess of 18,000 fps regardless of blade length? I have been on this web site for a while now and from what I've read the keys to cutting grass at high speed and getting a quality cut are sharp blades, a high blade tip speed and the ability of the mower to maintain a high blade tip speed.

Are you saying that your 48" Stander will cut grass and do a quality job as fast as these other mowers despite the fact that your bts is up to 20% slower?

BTW I'm not trying to give you a hard time, I'm just trying to get the facts.

[JimVelke]

Richard- I didn't say that ALL other OEM's do the same. Our mower doesn't do 15 MPH either or even 10 MPH. The Stander does 8 MPH and cuts very well at that speed. We could easily change the spindle pulleys to a smaller size but we simply find no reason to at this point.
Blade tip speed isn't everything. You can disrupt the air flow and lift ability by having it too fast. The air has to go somewhere and if it doesn't all go through the discharge opening then it can blow the uncut grass down or the cut grass out the edges of the deck.
If BTS was everything then why do fan mfg's make large fans instead of speeding the small ones up? LOL
My point is that you should'nt expect that the highest BTS always produces the best cut.

[Richard Martin]

Jim Velke wrote:

<b><i>You can disrupt the air flow and lift ability by having it too fast. The air has to go somewhere and if it doesn't all go through the discharge opening then it can blow the uncut grass down or the cut grass out the edges of the deck. </b></i>

Air flow and lift ability are also affected by such factors as the shape and size of the lift tips of the blades ,the shape of the cutting chamber ,the depth of the cutting chamber ,the size of the discharge opening and the density and composition of the material being moved.

Aside from the advantage of cutting grass at high speed a high sustained BTS has other advantages.

1: When mulching grass the grass can be mulched into a finer size with a high BTS.

2: When discharging grass more grass can be discharged for a given forward motion with a higher BTS.

3: The discharged grass can be spread over a wider area with a higher BTS.

Jim Velke also wrote:

<b><i>If BTS was everything then why do fan mfg's make large fans instead of speeding the small ones up? LOL</b></i>

Puhleeeeze! Fan size and speed are determined by application. For example, if you have a forced air heating system in your home you wouldn't want the air moving past the heat exchanger so fast that there is insufficient heat exchange would you? Or if you are aircooling something you wouldn't want the air to move so slowly that you get overheating would you?

It almost seems that you are saying that a high BTS is a bad thing. If this is the case then why doesn't your company slow down the BTS of your longer bladed mowers?

[JimVelke]

[B]Richard Martin wrote:

<b><i>Air flow and lift ability are also affected by such factors as the shape and size of the lift tips of the blades ,the shape of the cutting chamber ,the depth of the cutting chamber ,the size of the discharge opening and the density and composition of the material being moved.</b></i>

Thants right, I agree. It's a combination of many things. But let me ask you this...Could you get a quality cut if your mowers ground speed and BTS was 10 times faster. My point is and has been that the laws of physics don't change by going faster. The volume of air that can be pulled through a deck is limited by the inlet area (deck skirt to the ground and Deck size) and therefore no amount blade lift, BTS etc can overcome that limitation.

My fan example had to do with volume of air through a given size opening. Not heat exchangers etc.

[B]Richard Martin also wrote:

<b><i>It almost seems that you are saying that a high BTS is a bad thing. If this is the case then why doesn't your company slow down the BTS of your longer bladed mowers? </b></i>

No, I'm saying that there are trade offs and limits on BTS and mower speed that should be considered. High BTS is not always necessary for a quality cut. Our blade tip speed works fine for our 48" deck at 8 mph. We will consider speeding it up when we are convinced that we should. I'm not at all saying that it would be bad for us to do it, just not necessary as we see it.

The larger deck BTS are like you said about fans.."determined by application".

BTW Our sentar 48" and 52" have a higher BTS because it does 11 mph. The 61" Stander and Sentar are at the safty limits.