Front Mount mower vs. ZTR

[Jon S]

I am new to this forum and have found it to be very informative. I am looking to purchase a commercial mower to mow my large commercial property.

I am looking at a used John Deere F932 gas 2WD 60" deck 600 hours, a used New Holland CM224 diesel 4WD 72" deck 620 hours, a used Kubota GF1800 4WD diesel 60" deck 240 hours or purchasing a new Kubota ZTR or an Exmark ZTR.

Have any of you guys had much experience with those models I have listed? I know there has been alot written about the Exmark. Also, do most of you guys prefer front mount mowers or ZTR's? The best deal that I have found is the New Holland CM224 and the John Deere F932.

Any info from you pro's would be helpful in making my decision. Your help would be appreciated!

[awm]

Im watching this one. I use to have front mt i could
thread a needle withbut deck bounced mowing fast.
If i can get that good with the exmark z Id rather
have it.If notthe front mt is better as I had very
little trim work left.TM

[Runner]

You're comparing apples to oranges here. It depends on what type of work you are doing. If you are just doing some kind of rough industrial ares that don't have to look good, then the first three mowers would be suitable for you. But, if you want to do quality work with a nice appearance, such as residentials or higher quality commercials, then go with something like the Exmark. You say you were going to test a JD 932, test one first, and when you see the cut it lays, you'll more than likely be very disappointed in this otherwise "beautiful" machine. Because these other units(all three) are shaft-driven, they don't have the blade tip speeds of a belt drive. Therefore, don't put out the cut of say for instance, a Lazer.

[Keith]

Heres another thread on the subject. http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?threadid=7093

[TLS]

I have logged a few thousand hours on a JD f935 with the 60" deck. They, quite honestly, cut very poorly. They are built like tanks and engineered well, and brush hog very well, but the deck design does not allow for a high lift or suction to stand the grass up. The blades have to be BRAND NEW, the deck needs to be scraped very clean, and the grass has to be dry for them to even be considered a finish mower. Plus they are just too big of a machine (weight and size) for a 60" deck. Go with a midmount ZTR. You will never look back. There are several good brands, however stick to the brand that your loca dealer supports.

[Runner]

Thanks, Tom. I was thinking of you when I wrote my reply because I remember you talking about having one. As I have said before, the JD 935 when it came out was my "dream machine". That is, until I saw it cut.

[Mr.Ziffel]

I've mowed the finished lawn areas of my horse farm with a F935 for the past two seasons and am moving to [it's all over but the shouting] an Exmark Z, because of the above reasons posted by the other guys.

I've had absolutely no problems mechanically with the JD, but can't get the cut quality I want with it. Look for this mower to be posted for sale soon on the equipment forum, but I am north of Seattle so location is a problem.
Will

[TLS]

Will,

Of course when someone comes to buy it, you have to act like it is the best thing going! Cuts like a dream.... right?! LOL

I think that If they changed pulleys and belts on the deck drive back at the engine and got the shaft to spin a bit faster, or changed the gears in the gearbox to make them spin a bit faster, they would probably cut great! I can spin a screwdriver faster than the blades on a F series JD!!!

[Mr.Ziffel]

After all my research, questions, etc., on this and previous equipment purchases, it really comes down to only one thing: SHOW ME! I did live in Missouri for a few years and have found this to be so true of any mechanical device. People, especially salesmen and marketing people will tell you anything to make the sale--it's their job.

As has been said on this forum time and again, demo the mower! I have always done this, even with a brand new truck or car--after the salesman has done his whole pitch, I test drive the actual car or truck I'm buying before I sign any paperwork or write a check because who knows if that's the particular one that the assembly line worker decided to seal an empty bottle into the door panel or something equally funny?

Tom, the person most interested in the 935 now is a very good friend and hunting buddy who mows for his summer cabin's lawn and homeowner association and I will insist on showing him every quirk I'm aware of as well as making him cut with it--friends are way more valuable than money! I've already told him that the cut quality is not what I want but he is more interested in speed which this machine has--it just bounces too much for the smoothest of cuts. Mechanically, it should last him for years to come and the price is going to be right. Will

[AB Lawn Care]

Well if you can't decide on one,buy both.Or better yet buy a walker.Its zero turn and has a front mount deck,loads of attachments.Awsome in tight spots.

[SLC1]

We run all front mount mowers and I think that they cut quite nicely. I have 3 Hustler 3400's with 72" decks and one Hustler 4500 with a 12' range wing deck. The mowers are used to cut all commerical properties we do almost all sports fields and they come out nice with these mowers and with the zero turn Hustlers they even can do small tight areas. But if you are planning on doing small residental and small commerical I don't know how practical a 72" would be I would suggest a 60" but I think you would be able to use the front mount mowers and be very happy with them I am and have no complaints. We mow almost 200 acres a week with our mowers and love them. Just My two cents

[TLS]

SLC1,

Front mowers have their place in the market and they are great at that place. And I'm also sure that your Hustlers cut well, but however, he is considering a JD, New Holland, and Kubota, NOT a Hustler. (sorry how that sounds, Im not downing you)

Jon S,

I have commented numerous times about the F935's cut quality, or lack there of. If you are only cutting large commercial properties or roughs, where cut quality is immaterial, your above 3 options may suit you. But if you have to also mow smaller areas with a lot of trees and obstacles, Mid-mount 60" ZTR's are your only choice and have no competition. On a front mount there is just too much ass end to swing around in tight areas, plus they aren't a true Zero-Turn. The front mounts are considerably heavier and may damage turf more.

The F-Series JD's were a great invention in the '80's, hovever this is 2001 and they are basically unchanged!! They have stuck with the...if it ain't broke, dont fix it...mentality.

[Jon S]

Thanks guys for the terrific responses!

I think undoubtly after listening to you guys the Exmark laser is the best as I expected. However, what would you guys do in my situation which is:

I am mowing 3 acres of open lawn at a trailer park and I am not very concerned about perfect cut quality. The area is wide open with few obstacles. My primary objective is to get the lawn cut very fast.

Also, I have an great opportunty to purchase this JD F932 with 600 hours for $4000. This machine usually sells at a dealer for $5500 - $6000. It seems like a great deal for want I want to accomplish. I do have a price of $6900 for a Lazer Z with a 60" deck and a Kawaski liquid cooled engine, which is also a great price.

However, that JD F932 with 600 hours and the Yanmar gas engine will still probably out last the new Laser.

What do you guys think? Your help is greatly appreciated.

Jon S.

[TLS]

But if it dies, the Yanmar engine costs like $4000 new! While you could put a Kohler or Kawi A/C or even another L/C for $2000.

$4000 isn't that fantastic of a deal for a used F series. The hours seem low, but are they original hours? Hour meters are cheap and available anywhere to fool future buyers. The gas Yanmars were a little more thirsty than the miser diesels.

If thats a NEW LC Lazer for $6900 , jump on it!

3 acres isn't even enough lawn to warm up that JD!

If you really want the JD, then try it and buy it. They are fast 10.5 mph and comfortable (seat) , but I would be leary of the low hours.

Good luck

[cantoo]

Jon s another thought, if you are cutting a trailer park then the discharge could be a problem too. 3 acres isn't really that big, I would think about a rear discharge mower or a collector model like the Walker,, ( of course I own one)I cut some properties where discharge is a concern so the Walker works good for me there, lot less chance of anything or anyone getting hit by flying objects.
I have never driven any of the models you mention, I have a Ransomes 72" but haven't used it much yet. It's rear discharge too for the same reasons as above. I have a friend who test drove the Ford and the first slope he went on the rear tie rods bent real bad. Where I work they have the smaller JD and the cut leaves alot to be desired, I enjoy cutting it with my Walker just to piss off my day job boss.

[Jon S]

Great information!!!

I like the one comment of purchasing a rear discharge mower to reduce the chances of any flying objects. My question to you guys is the following: How well do rear discharge mowers work? If i did get a rear discharge it may be a Kubota F2560. Do the rear discharge mowers really help stop the chances of flying objects?

Also, will a bagger or collection system stop flying objects?

Thanks....Jon S.

[Mr.Ziffel]

Jon before I gave up on my F935, I had the dealer bring me a used 72" rear discharge deck to try. You can do a search to see my review, but the short story is that it didn't work well at all. It windrowed, bounced and scalped--needless to say I didn't buy it and now I'm moving to the ZTR. Before you buy anything, demo it!

$6900 is a great price for a Lazer. Is that with the 23HP Kaw? Could you give us the name of the dealer? It could be worth it to me to pay shipping for a low enough price. Thanks, Will

[Jon S]

Will,
The dealer that quoted me $6900.00 for a Exmark lazer z with a 60" deck and LC 23HP Kaw is: Gary's Small Engine, Clay, New York, 315.699.8072.

Do you think all rear discharge mowers work as bad as the John Deere. Do you know anything about the Kubota's?

Jon

[Mr.Ziffel]

Jon, Thanks for the info.

I pull a 72" rear discharge Woods grooming mower behind a 1235Massey Ferguson compact tractor for my large pastures and it does a great job of dispersing the clippings.

I have a very good Kubota dealer fairly near me, but I bought my MF1235 new from another dealer because I felt it was a better machine, for the money. The Kubota dealer also carries the Scag which I have demoed but I prefer the Lazer. The Kubota is not a ZTR and is very expensive so it was not on my list to demo. The same advice holds - Demo the machine and see for yourself how it works. The dealer HAS to tell you it's the greatest machine and works perfect. If he doesn't have one to demo and you're still interested, make him set up a demo with one of his previous customers. You've got to see the mower cut before you buy. Good luck. Will

PS-The Lazer is looking real good to me.

[Jon S]

Guys,
Back to the issue to stop the possibility of flying objects, If I decide to purchase the Lazer Z as most of you guys recommend, should I buy the micro mulch system to stop flying objects. It looks like you can convert the deck to a mulcher by changing the blades and blocking the side discharge hole.

Have any of you guys had any experience with the Laser micro mulcher? How do they work? Would this stop any flying objects that may hurt someone?
Jon

[TLS]

Awll heck, this is a trailer park right? They will just think its just more bullet holes it the double wide. Kids may just get their tooth count low enough by stray rocks to match their parent count! Sorry just had to!!!

Most projectiles arent from the discharge side, but from wherever the object is hit from withen the deck. A rear discharge deck would send something flying just as easy as a side discharge. Just different directions.

[morturf]

Hey guys,
Deere has come out with a whole new line of front mount mowers. These are called the 1400 line. They are new from the ground up. Have a look before you saythey are 1980's technology. they are very comfortable to use. just my 2 cents.

http://products.deere.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/CategoryDisplay?cgnbr=JD@FM&cgmenbr=8416&path=GC

[Eric ELM]

I tryed them in the 80's and I sure hope they improved them. I still have a 430 tractor, but I won't use if for mowing. I didn't feel the cut quality was as good as it should be. Even with double blades on it back in the 80's, they just didn't spread the clippings that well. With one set on them, they were terrible. This is when I started using double blades, because of needing more airflow to spread the clippings. I guess I owe JD a big thanks. :)

[Runner]

Ilike the tilt steering for this type of mower, they still have that shallow little stamped deck though.

[kutnkru]

Check with Creekside Equipment in East syracuse, by Lesco while your comparing machines.

Kris