My complex has lost their minds

[Psyclopse]

After years of paying various people $75 per hour ($50 per hour over 5 years ago) the management company calls me and informs me that they are no longer going to pay that amount. I asked why and they said it's because I am an employee of the complex, the others who did it before are not. So I asked them what they proposed paying me.

They said that they were only going to pay me $10 per hour- for a complex that takes about an hour if the snow is bad. I told them that I won't even start my truck for that.

Now, I can see them adjusting their price IF AND ONLY IF the truck and the plow belonged to them (maybe not as low as 10 bucks though). But the truck and plow is owned by me, and I won't do it.

I asked where they came up with the $10 figure and they said "well, it's what we pay you to shovel the walks, so it seemed fitting for plowing as well."

I told them to either pay me properly or find someone to contract- and they seemed offended by it. So, I sent them a contract (which states my pricing)- the same contract that I would give to any other complex that I didn't work at. I then told them the only other option is to buy a truck and plow for the complex, then I'd discuss doing it cheaper. I was very polite during the whole conversation (can't say the same for them) but I did let them know that there is nothing stating that I had to use my own equipment for my employer's purposes, and if my decision affected my job in any way, I'd seek legal action. I also told them (once again, politely) that I'd service the lot no further until an agreement is made between us.

Now, it is a simple lot, and I'd be willing to go down to $50 per hour as long as they paid for any damage that occured to my trucks while on the property, but I will not accept $10 when last year's contractor got $75- just because I am an employee. I don't get paid by the hour there for maintenance, I get paid by the job. For instance, I get paid the same $20 for a faucet regardless of if it takes 5 minutes or 5 hours. The only thing that is hourly there is lawn care and snow removal. The rates they are willing to pay are as follows-
$7.50/hr lawn care - their equipment
$10.00/hr snow removal (shoveling/ blowing) - my equipment
Unagreed/hr snow removal (plowing) - my equipment

What are your thoughts on this situation?

[SlimJim Z71]

I'd say you did the right thing. $10 to plow their lot??? That's rediculous. You get $10 to plow a VERY small driveway, not a parking lot. You sound like you went about things the right way. I can't say I would've been so nice.

-Tim

[cos]

I would tell them to go plow and shovel it themselves for that price!!!!!! They have to realize that wear and tear on your vehicle is a major factor!! I can't believe they had the balls to even try to lower their price like that. If it was me!!!!, I would quit and get another job and send them a proposal for $100 an hour!!!!! Tell the bitc& to get out there and shovel it themselves!!!, and see if its worth $10 an hour!!!!!!

Just my 2 cents

[GeoffDiamond]

This would be one of the few times I would ever suggest this.

Plow them in man. Stack the snow high right in front of their entrance during the middle of the night.

Geoff

[MJ]

They're loonier than a tune or think you was born yesterday. Who's going to be responsible for gas, insurance, repair of equipment etc? I can't imagine an "employee" being responsible for providing a vehicle and plow!

Mick

[cat320]

Tell them to go out and spend the $30-40K and set you up with a plow truck and sander and why they are at it a bobcat for snow removal another $26K.Then you will do it for no less than $13 and hour that's the going rate up in mass for just driving someones plow truck.Oh yea tel them to pay for yopur insurance too.Gas and repairs.

[slplow]

I would not even do the lawn work for under $10 hr it's just as hard work as doing the walks. I start my landscape workers out at $ 9.75 hr. If they don't like what you charge for plowing scew em.

[SlimJim Z71]

In summary: TELL 'EM TO POUND SAND!

-Tim

[NEAL]

Tell them to GO FIND A STICK !

[Gordon]

Plow them in man. Stack the snow high right in front of their entrance during the middle of the night.

I couldn't have put it better myself. It's a shame but some people will always try and see just how much they can get out of you.
Gordon

[jrblawncare]

They are using you!!!Even the lawn care rates are low.I would say,"Bye see ya" or any of the above plow'em in,ect...

[HandyHaver]

Just tell them $10.00 is fine for you and a shovel but if they want you to use your personal truck it's $65.00 an hr. for the truck, min charge 1.5 hrs. Have them divide that by $25,000.00 for their own set up plus ins, maint, gas, and an operator. If they don't see things your way, hit the highway!!!

Mark

[jaclawn]

Tell them that you will push snow all day long for $10/hr. Tell them that the truck & plow rental is $65/hr.

[John DiMartino]

You did the right thing,and acted as professional,I wouldnt plow them in,but at the same time,I would be looking ofranother job if I were you,especially if they hire an outside contractor.These people have no idea,as to the costs involved in running a snowplowing business,the nerve of them to think you would use your plow and truck with no compensation what so ever,for up front costs,wear,fuel,manitance,repairs,insurance etc.Jaclawn said it best,rent them the truck/plow for 65/hr,with yourself as exclusive operator.

[cos]

I agree with Jaclwan. Tell them yeah, you will plow for $10/hr., but the truck with plow-rental is $65/hr.@ 1.5 minimum. Then next year find more accounts and when they call, tell them that you are too busy, but wouldn't mind giving them a proposal, then KNOCK THEIR SOCKS OFF.

[cut-rite]

If you want to shovel for $10 per hour then do just that ,leave the plow home . Should take about 12 hours to shovel whole lot =$120. They will save a ton of money LOL

[SlimJim Z71]

Make sure their insurance is up to par if you're gonna go that route though... your broken back is gonna cost some $$$.


-Tim

[Mudrtrukr79]

Next time it snows and they call you , tell them you cant come out ...you have a vision problem.....you just cant see working for $10 an hour .Then explain to them that with the rising price of fuel , maintenance,and the fact that having a plow EXCLUSIVELY for their use is to be considered a luxury and luxurys cost money ....Now its $150.00 an hour at a minumum of 1.5 hours . When they sputter tell them now you know how it feels , and Ill be waiting by the phone , once you agree to my price ....then hang up !!!

Dan

[cos]

YO DAN,

Vision Problems? That was awesome. I must have laughed for 2 minutes when I red that. I can probably say that was 1 of the funniest posts I have red in a long time.


:D :D :D

[John DiMartino]

Dan,that's great-Im getting back on the chair now,that was funny.

[capital]

I'm no tax expert, but I think your complex has run into a problem which they are not explaining to you. The IRS hates when a company treats an individual as both an employee and a subcontractor. IE it causes red flags. So, most companies will not issue a 1099 to an employee. It causes an audit for you and an audit for them. Also why charge $10.00 an hour for snow removal. It usually runs per labor hour and your time and equipment should be worth more than $10.00 an hour.

[MJ]

I think capital just hit on the problem. BUT - As I said before, they can not expect an employee to be responsible for providing a vehicle and plow. Maybe you can negotiate a raise - to $100/hr. Or they can reimburse expenses which is what employers generally do when an employee uses their own car for work.

Mick

[SlimJim Z71]

That's kind of the deal I have at Motorwerks. They pay me $XX/hr., but they supply gas, salt, and any broken parts on my truck. Not the best pay in the world, but it's not a bad deal in all...

-Tim

[kutnkru]

In our area the going rate seems to be:
PLOWING
- $45 hour if you have your own truck.
- $15 hour to drive someone else's truck.

HAND WORK
- $25 hour if you have your own snow thrower.
- $18 hour for shoveling / broadcasting salt.

[9FT.PILES]

KUTNKRU YOUR PRETTY CHEAP WANNA WORK 4 ME

[Edited by plowking35 on 01-05-2001 at 06:56 AM]

[9FT.PILES]

Originally posted by cut-rite
If you want to shovel for $10 per hour then do just that ,leave the plow home . Should take about 12 hours to shovel whole lot =$120. They will save a ton of money LOL CUT RITE YOUR CHEAP TOO COME ON DOWN PHILLY I COULD USE U ILL PUT U TO WORK

[kutnkru]

I said thats what it seems to be ... not what my brother charges.

If you need exact quotes I can ask him tomorrow for you.

I hate to sit when I mow or plow so I'm usually busy playing with snow throwers or doing the hand work.

LOL

[cantoo]

Come on psyclopse be a little reasonable, $10 isn't that bad. You just have to do it one more time. Tell them you will do it for the $10 per hr, during the next storm windrow everything to the front of the entrance then stop. Go to the owners and tell them that a part broke on your truck and you will get it fixed as soon as you can so you can finish the job. Then remind them that at $10 per hour it could take a month or two to save up the money to fix the plow. Then drive away and never look back, there are more jobs out there.

[SlimJim Z71]

Ya know... we've all been ranting about what we think he should do, but where is he?

Psyclopse

What's the verdict???

-Tim

[cantoo]

He's out shovelling the parking lot for $10 hr.. hehehe What do you think he has time to come here now?

[SlimJim Z71]

Ha ha ha....

[Psyclopse]

Haha, I almost fell out of my chair laughing...

Anyway, I have plowed it twice, and we haven't had any more worthwhile events since. But I did come to a soulution.

First of all, I have no contract for this job. I manage and maintain this complex, so I am an employee. Instead of paying me by the hour, I get a set amount for being a manager (X amount of dollars for each occupied unit) AND I get paid "by the job" for maintenance. Management and maintenance are supposed to be two seperate jobs, but no one is willing to do just one because the pay is too low that way. They have a list which tells how much they'll pay for a particular job- if it ain't on the list, I call my bosses and negotiate a price. Shoveling snow is on the list at $10 per hour (snow and mowing are the only hourly things) but plowing is not. The reason for this is because plowing is something that has always been contracted out in the past (in other words, they don't want to buy the equipment).

The last few years they paid $75 per hour to a plowing contractor. Now they figured since the new manager has the equipment, they can pay me at the "snow shovel" rate and save a fortune. I called corporate office with my complaint, and they said I'd have to talk to the main boss who "isn't around." I have left numerous messages to call me back, but they won't over this matter for some reason.

So here's what I have done/am gonna do... First thing I did was inform all of my tenants that I am going to make it a point to drive one of the plow trucks to work every time I come, BUT until the price dispute is resolved, I am not going to push the first bit of snow. The truck will serve as a reminder to the tenants why the lot isn't being cleared. All tenants have the number to corporate office, and a few have called already (in fear of "the next big snow"). 99% of the tenants are siding with me.

Then, I am telling every snow-pusher I see about what is going on. They are a good bunch around here (many are close friends). It is highly unlikely that corporate will find someone around here to do it.

Now I am getting ready to send a fax to them (that way it'll get read). The fax is going to simply state that the ONLY way I am going to push snow is either a)I am payed $75 per hour on maintenance payroll or b)they sign a contract with me as a contractor for snow removal. Otherwise I am not pushing snow for them. Period. I have looked through my job descriptions, and no where does it say that I have to remove snow from the parking lot- my job is to try to find a means for getting it done. And it certainly doesn't state using my equipment. Any job that is on the maintenance list I am allowed to refuse or dispute on price- they know that finding a contractor to do that stuff for that pay would cost them more than upping my pay. However, any job NOT on the list is (by the book) not my responsibility at all unless I accept it to be. This means plowing.

Bottom line- they have between now and the next storm to decide what to do. Pay me what I'm worth, or I won't drop the plow. They have been sent a bill for the plowing already done (they told me to "do it at whatever we charged last year"- then later changed their minds). I sent a note with that stating that I would take them to court if the bill was not paid in full and I was bringing 18 tenants as witnesses- one of which fell a few years ago here due to lack of snow removal, she sued and won.

I should know tomorrow what they plan to do. I have made my point. One more thing I'd like to do, but I think I should have someone from Lawn Site's permission... Could I have permission to print this thread and fax it to them so they can see what other pro's think?

[cut-rite]

Don't know If you need individiual permision from each poster, but as far as im concerned you can print mine.

[SlimJim Z71]

You've got my okay!

[MJ]

Use my posts with my blessing.

Mick