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View Full Version : Alternative to cutting a valve out of a tight manifold


Mdirrigation
08-13-2004, 05:45 PM
When I run into a tight manifold or a valve thats no longer made I leave it there. Why open a can of worms , we do sometinng so easy and quick, You simply locate the downstream pipe about 1 foot away from the bad valve and install a new one. Take the old valve apart and make it stay open , move the wires to the new valve and place on a new box.

greenworldh20
08-13-2004, 10:53 PM
we do this when:

1- it is an older, copper manifold.
2- we believe that by removing the valve the manifold will break.

brian

DanaMac
08-15-2004, 11:57 AM
Never thought of that. I like it though. If the down stream pipe is poly do you replace it with PVC?

koster_irrigation
08-15-2004, 06:08 PM
well what you can sometimes do is remove the whole top end of the valve- bonnet and all, and usually that allows enough room to unscrew the body from the pipe male adapter.. then install the new valve the same way.. its worked for me in a few instances....

DanaMac
08-15-2004, 06:25 PM
I do it that way too Koster, actually did it Friday with three old brass Rainbird valves

Green Sweep
08-16-2004, 06:50 AM
We usaully build a new manifold & replace all of the valves (with the homeowners permission). If they are that old, then the others probably are not going to last long. I do like the idea of leaving the valve & installing a new one further down the lateral -never tried it.

HBFOXJr
08-16-2004, 09:12 AM
Not being a fan of master valves we disable them too. They will never be a service problem to find or remember again.

Unfortuantely most of our repairs on these types of mess involve a leak in fitting and the whole mess must be rebuilt from scratch.

No matter how big a mess the old manifold was we build a nice straight new one and configure the down stream side of the piping how we need to put it all back together.

Grassmechanic
08-16-2004, 09:29 AM
Speaking of manifolds, has anyone asembled them out of all sch80 threaded fittings? I'm talking for 1 1/2" and less.

Mdirrigation
08-16-2004, 06:42 PM
Originally posted by HBFOXJr
Not being a fan of master valves we disable them too. They will never be a service problem to find or remember again.

Unfortuantely most of our repairs on these types of mess involve a leak in fitting and the whole mess must be rebuilt from scratch.

No matter how big a mess the old manifold was we build a nice straight new one and configure the down stream side of the piping how we need to put it all back together.


Now we are a big fan of the master valves and add master valves when ever its possible. Especially on commercial systems . We have found that over the years systems with master valves have less valve failures than those that dont.

We do recomment that the whole valve box be replaced , but some customers budgets dont allow for this . So the down stream valve comes into play.

BSME
08-17-2004, 03:37 PM
I agree with gutting the valve and being able to screw it off... usually works out... My question is (maybe I'm reading what you do wrong) that when you winterize the system is that inactive valve going to be a problem now? Won't there be water in the valve that you bypassed... causing it to crack in the spring and making you have to replace it anyway?

Mdirrigation
08-17-2004, 05:40 PM
The valve is in line , its first but always open, the water flows thru the first and the second when the second is activated

Green Sweep
08-18-2004, 07:13 AM
Not to venture off into a whole new subject but I am curious as to why anyone would not be a big fan of master valves. There are countless benefits & I just would like to hear the downfalls. I tried to convince (unsuccessfully) a Target store to allow me to install a master valve in the spring. 2 weeks ago, I got a call from the same store that a zone has been running for 4 days straight! By the time they decided to call me (why so long - I don't know), all of the annuals in that zone were dead & God knows how much water they lost. It turned out to be a bad diaphragm. Now, I realize that even with a master valve, the zone would have run anytime the system was running but this is much better than 96 hours straight. 1 1/2" PGA, 2 wire nuts, a couple of 1 1/2" fittings, a couple of hours labor - a couple hundred dollars - Should be worth it right? Oh yeah, I also found some mainline PVC fittings at this Target with not enough glue & they were seeping water. I'm sure that there are others (we did not install & system is garbage). A master valve would also solve this problem.

dbielawski
08-18-2004, 09:33 AM
I agree with Green Sweep, a master valve is a 'must'.

Crowl-Irrigation
08-18-2004, 11:31 AM
I also agree with a master valve. There is an added comfort for the homeowner when they go on vacation. No need to worry about a valve being stuck on the whole time there gone. Funny to go work on a system and run across a master that has the plunger gone so it is live all the time. Makes no sense

MOlawnman
08-20-2004, 02:00 AM
We install a master valve on every system we install. Not hard to remember or find when you do the same for every job. Good peace of mind.

ed2hess
08-11-2007, 06:31 PM
When I run into a tight manifold or a valve thats no longer made I leave it there. Why open a can of worms , we do sometinng so easy and quick, You simply locate the downstream pipe about 1 foot away from the bad valve and install a new one. Take the old valve apart and make it stay open , move the wires to the new valve and place on a new box.

Ran into this today...How do make the valve stay on and pass water thru it?

Dirty Water
08-11-2007, 06:38 PM
Ran into this today...How do make the valve stay on and pass water thru it?

Gut the diaphragm, but leave enough around the edges so the bonnet will still seal.

CAPT Stream Rotar
08-11-2007, 06:45 PM
where I install/service the MV=PITA for service...

we dont install..

no need....

Wet_Boots
08-11-2007, 07:11 PM
where I install/service the MV=PITA for service...

we dont install..

no need....Tell that to the guy whose multi-zillion-dollar California coast hilltop home became structually unsound because of the zone that stuck open while he was on a vacation, and the erosion it caused.

PurpHaze
08-11-2007, 07:18 PM
Tell that to the guy whose multi-zillion-dollar California coast hilltop home became structually unsound because of the zone that stuck open while he was on a vacation, and the erosion it caused.

He's probably the same guy that rebuilt on the cliff after a chaparral fire destroyed his home. :)

Wet_Boots
08-11-2007, 07:46 PM
He's probably the same guy that rebuilt on the cliff after a chaparral fire destroyed his home. :)Someone I know who built near the chaparral had to find non-flammable substitutes for anything wood, that would normally be exposed, in order for the construction to be approved.

ed2hess
08-11-2007, 08:19 PM
Gut the diaphragm, but leave enough around the edges so the bonnet will still seal.

Thanks for the reply....got one that won't open so maybe I just take the diaphragm out just to be sure that I got sufficient water pressure...been reading some threads where the guy put in new valve and heads still wouldn't pop up and seal....Thanks

FIMCO-MEISTER
08-11-2007, 09:24 PM
Ran into this today...How do make the valve stay on and pass water thru it?
Take the pin out of the solenoid? Unless stuck in the off position then I guess gut the diaphragm. i think this should be a last consideration as a solution though.

ed2hess
08-11-2007, 09:58 PM
Take the pin out of the solenoid? Unless stuck in the off position then I guess gut the diaphragm. i think this should be a last consideration as a solution though.

It just opens a little from the solenoid or the bleeder...and the heads won't seal up so I got water going over the curb in a media which is not good.

FIMCO-MEISTER
08-11-2007, 10:59 PM
It just opens a little from the solenoid or the bleeder...and the heads won't seal up so I got water going over the curb in a media which is not good.

I'm a little confused as to what the problem is Ed. When it is on you are not getting enough pressure to pop the heads up? You know first hand that this zone worked well before? Have you found the valve? What brand and model is it? Have you attempted to service it? unfortunately you gave me just enough info to be curious.

Mdirrigation
08-12-2007, 05:35 PM
where I install/service the MV=PITA for service...

we dont install..

no need....



Ok whats a PITA about a master valve . We know the pros of having one on a system , I would like to hear the cons

PROFESSORRAIN
08-12-2007, 06:16 PM
Tell me how to unscrew a glue in valve,but I must be the only person to install these valves.I could see cutting past the valve cap it cut into main feeding run a new valve off it add wire to old valve and tie back into pipe feeding zone.

ed2hess
08-12-2007, 07:24 PM
I'm a little confused as to what the problem is Ed. When it is on you are not getting enough pressure to pop the heads up? You know first hand that this zone worked well before? Have you found the valve? What brand and model is it? Have you attempted to service it? unfortunately you gave me just enough info to be curious.
It was checked out in spring and was working.....it is a 1 1/2" Irritrol. I took the top off and found that the plastic part that holds the seal to the diaphram was broke away from the diaphram so it couldn't open. I put epoxy on it to see if that will correct the problem before replacing. I am not having good track record on just replacing diaphrams.

FIMCO-MEISTER
08-12-2007, 07:46 PM
It was checked out in spring and was working.....it is a 1 1/2" Irritrol. I took the top off and found that the plastic part that holds the seal to the diaphram was broke away from the diaphram so it couldn't open. I put epoxy on it to see if that will correct the problem before replacing. I am not having good track record on just replacing diaphrams.

Unless you have a crack in the body which I'm guessing you don't Irritrols are usually successful repairs. Try posting pics and let me or us walk you through it.

Wet_Boots
08-12-2007, 09:07 PM
It was checked out in spring and was working.....it is a 1 1/2" Irritrol. I took the top off and found that the plastic part that holds the seal to the diaphram was broke away from the diaphram so it couldn't open. I put epoxy on it to see if that will correct the problem before replacing. I am not having good track record on just replacing diaphrams.Sounds something like the 'diaphragm swelling' plastic-bolt-break that afflicts the old Richdel R-204 valve. If none of the loose parts got washed downline the diaphragm assembly might be repaired, but for the money, just replace the whole assembly, and start the service-life clock over again.

ed2hess
08-12-2007, 10:57 PM
A little epoxy and the valve is back working.....I do like these irritrol diaphram can be taken in out on the 1.5" and nothing like the little ones.