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mowin at the lake
08-23-2004, 09:31 PM
Has anyone on here ever broken a frame on a z-turn???

I have a 287L toro with a DFS bagger and the frame BROKE in 4 different places.

Toro is going to cover the parts, I have to cover the labor...

They claim the mower must of been damaged during transport....

dvmcmrhp52
08-23-2004, 09:46 PM
How many hours are on this machine?

Itsgottobegreen
08-23-2004, 10:12 PM
I have had to weld a buddy's yazoo/kee ZTR twice. But 4 differen't breaks. There has to be something wrong with it from the factory.

LawnBoy89
08-23-2004, 10:30 PM
Yea, that definetly doesn't sound right, unless you ride it in the woods and down rocky hills. But I don't think you do...

mowin at the lake
08-23-2004, 11:54 PM
I will post some pictures of the frame tuesday.
The mower has around 300 hrs.

mowin at the lake
08-24-2004, 07:00 PM
here are a few pictures after the frame was striped

mowin at the lake
08-24-2004, 07:03 PM
sorry, having problems posting pictures

mowin at the lake
08-24-2004, 08:02 PM
I think i got if figured out

mowin at the lake
08-24-2004, 08:38 PM
here is the second picture

mowin at the lake
08-24-2004, 08:42 PM
lets try the third picture

mowin at the lake
08-24-2004, 08:57 PM
heres the last picture

mowin at the lake
08-24-2004, 10:14 PM
one last one resized

txlawnking
08-24-2004, 10:16 PM
WOW! That sux!!!!

dvmcmrhp52
08-24-2004, 10:17 PM
Tough to see by the pics but are all four places sheared off like the one in the last pic?
Or are they at weld joints?
The last pic does not look like a weld joint.

txlawnking
08-24-2004, 10:24 PM
Looks like a crack from metal fatigue.

dvmcmrhp52
08-24-2004, 10:26 PM
Originally posted by txlawnking
Looks like a crack from metal fatigue.





Yup.

mowin at the lake
08-24-2004, 10:26 PM
no, all of them are pretty much like t he last one..
Get this....Toro is covering the part I have to pay the labor...(12-13 hrs)
They claim it was "damaged during transport" on my trailer!!!!

dvmcmrhp52
08-24-2004, 10:34 PM
Mowin,
I have to side with Toro on this one.
If it were a manufacturing problem the welds would have seperated most likely,the shearing that is evident in the pictures is indicitive of an overload on the frame of some sort over a period of time.
Towing equipment with it, etc.
It does not seem to be normal wear and tear at all.
The frame looks as though it has 1000 hours on it rather than 300.
Unless it gets little use of course and is an older model with low hours on it.
Our machines at 300 hours still have frames that look pretty much like new.

txlawnking
08-24-2004, 10:43 PM
Originally posted by dvmcmrhp52
Mowin,
I have to side with Toro on this one.
If it were a manufacturing problem the welds would have seperated most likely,the shearing that is evident in the pictures is indicitive of an overload on the frame of some sort over a period of time.
Towing equipment with it, etc.
It does not seem to be normal wear and tear at all.
The frame looks as though it has 1000 hours on it rather than 300.
Unless it gets little use of course and is an older model with low hours on it.
Our machines at 300 hours still have frames that look pretty much like new.

Dang man, i'd hope that at 3,000 hrs the frame would still look like new! I'd like to assume that a frame is a non-wear item!!

mowin at the lake
08-24-2004, 10:48 PM
The mower is a 287L I bought it new in May 2003. I was off on the hours, it has almost 600 on it.

The mower has the DFS bagger system on it.
You are putting about 250 pounds of weight on the front wheels for ballest to off set the bagger and contents.

txlawnking
08-24-2004, 10:52 PM
Still, that's no bueno... Your's doesn't share the frame with the 500 series does it?

dvmcmrhp52
08-24-2004, 11:16 PM
Originally posted by mowin at the lake
The mower is a 287L I bought it new in May 2003. I was off on the hours, it has almost 600 on it.

The mower has the DFS bagger system on it.
You are putting about 250 pounds of weight on the front wheels for ballest to off set the bagger and contents.



O.K.
I would guess there is the problem.
Too much stress on the frame.
It now makes sense to see the frame in the condition it is in.

Green King
08-24-2004, 11:39 PM
I wonder if that Yazoo was the newer max 2 frame or the Zt max frame.

fixer67
08-25-2004, 12:01 AM
I just had to weld the tail wheel back on a Walker. I know what caused it though. As for yours I would have to say metal fatigue. Remember once the frame fells in one place it causes a chain reaction to the rest of the frame.

txlawnking
08-25-2004, 12:04 AM
Originally posted by dvmcmrhp52
O.K.
I would guess there is the problem.
Too much stress on the frame.
It now makes sense to see the frame in the condition it is in.

Still guy's, did not Toro consider that some folks may run a bagger?? I mean, I wouldn't (run a bagger) if you paid me to, But I would sure like to feel confident that the dang FRAME wouldn't break in 4 places if I chose to! IMO that is inexcuseable...Unless You purposefully abused the machine, I just would not imagine a frame breaking like that...

dvmcmrhp52
08-25-2004, 12:07 AM
Originally posted by txlawnking
Still guy's, did not Toro consider that some folks may run a bagger?? I mean, I wouldn't (run a bagger) if you paid me to, But I would sure like to feel confident that the dang FRAME wouldn't break in 4 places if I chose to! IMO that is inexcuseable...Unless You porpose fully abused the machine, I just would not imagine a frame breaking like that...




I agree................
But, A bagger that needs 250 lbs to counter balance is a bit much in my book.
We don't and won't run baggers (for every day use) for a number of reasons, with the added weight and abuse on the machine as one of those reasons.

txlawnking
08-25-2004, 12:09 AM
I hear that man....

Tonyr
08-25-2004, 06:46 PM
250 lb front counter balance weight?

Is that 250lb directly sitting on the front wheels?


Bugger that!
IMHO, I'm not into bagging grass, frankly I've always never jumped at the idea of a big rear bagger sitting behind the drive wheels on a ZTR....

I reckon if you want to bag go for machines like Walker's and Toro Z355. at least there is a rear wheel to balance out the load.

Toro makes solid equipment, all of the market leaders do, but unless this mower had previous damage it is a bit suss that with normal use a frame would crack like that.

solution...dunno...but I think the machine has a damage history, a bagger shouldn't do that, they are designed to carry baggers.

Tex, mate I honestly don't know about whether it uses the same frame as a Z500 series....

I very seriously doubt it, the Z500's are all newly designed, beafed up for commercial work, have a look at one somewhere, I doubt there is a tougher built frame out there, these things are as beafy as!

These are my thoughts/opinions only, I have not asked Toro.

odin
08-25-2004, 06:51 PM
the dfs bagger is a dump from seat monstrassity ..we had a couple they suck .On the one we had they put a kit with two huge weights on the caster wheels

mowin at the lake
08-25-2004, 09:06 PM
Tony, There is three wheight per wheel.
the first one (75lbs) fits over the yolk and has a U-bolt to secure it
The second and third are 20-25 each and bolt on top of the larger one.

dvmcmrhp52
08-25-2004, 09:19 PM
Yikes!

Not trying to bust on ya, but.............
That's entirely too much weight.

mowin at the lake
08-25-2004, 09:23 PM
thats the way toro set it up..
And they gave me one more set of the upper weights

dvmcmrhp52
08-25-2004, 09:35 PM
So let's assume you weigh an average of 175 lbs,add 250 for the counter weights on the front another 200 for the bagger.............
Conservatively speaking this mower was hauling 625 lbs around with an empty bagger...........add grass weight to that.............

mowin at the lake
08-25-2004, 10:01 PM
mower................1000 lbs
front weights......250
bagger................200
me......................250
yard waste.........200
---------------------------

1900 lbs!!!!

dvmcmrhp52
08-25-2004, 10:41 PM
Originally posted by mowin at the lake
mower................1000 lbs
front weights......250
bagger................200
me......................250
yard waste.........200
---------------------------

1900 lbs!!!!




Yup.
So the mower was hauling 8-900 lbs (on top of the frame) not including it's own weight.


Something has to give after running for many hours.

mowin at the lake
08-27-2004, 06:31 PM
Today I call toro and got an answer why they blame the frame damage to transport.....

Toro claims the frame bent because i haul (ON THE TRAILER) the mower while the bagger is full....

And the weight of the full bagger bent the frame.....

I don't know about the rest of the people on LAWNSITE, but most of my lawns are a little bit bouncer than asphalt...

I should make a display with this mower and bring it to the EXPO

dvmcmrhp52
08-27-2004, 07:02 PM
Most manufacturers suggest not transporting a mower with the bagger attatched.

Asphalt is smoother but potholes and such are not.


I wish you luck with your new frame.

Oldtimer
08-28-2004, 01:51 AM
One question!

Have you foamed your tires or filled them with water?


Oldtimer

Envy Lawn Service
08-28-2004, 04:05 AM
I say BULL ____ Toro!!!

They know d@mn well this is an issue with the L/C unit equipped with DFS and counter weights... I'd bet money on it, otherwise they wouldn't be furnishing the part... You don't set a machine up where it's able to carry more weight than it can handle in transport. We do have to haul these mowers around and we do have to use them on bumpy ground regularly.

One point I believe has been left out... doesn't the L/C unit already have a counter weight on the frame under the footplate??? The L/C eXmark does.... if so this adds even more weight!!!

mowin at the lake
08-28-2004, 03:37 PM
Yes, the LC does have the extra weights under the footplate

As far as the front tires, they are just air filled.

Tonyr
08-28-2004, 07:55 PM
I personally believe these frames should be plenty strong enough to stand trailer traveling with full catchers, these frames are not light whimpy things, if they break this easy we aren't getting much for our dollar imo.

These are beafy commercial machines, should be strong enough to stand abuse without falling to bits.

imo, Toro should repair or replace this frame, then we all know toro isn't known for the best customer service in the world. pity, they make great mowers.