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Lawn-Scapes
08-30-2004, 08:19 PM
I was planning to target larger properties for next year when today I received a call for a 5 acre bid. I am not looking for prices... just what kind of time you would base your price on. How many man hours would it take you or should it take you. If you want to state what you market will bear... feel free.

Other factors to consider: This job is 16.3 miles (or 20-25 mins) one way. No other jobs in this location.. none on the way either. Lawn is fairly level... but as is typical here.. a pretty bumpy ride.

I have 8 pictures to load.. so wait 'til they do.

Here's the left side

Lawn-Scapes
08-30-2004, 08:20 PM
center...............

Lawn-Scapes
08-30-2004, 08:22 PM
another center........

Lawn-Scapes
08-30-2004, 08:22 PM
right...............

Lawn-Scapes
08-30-2004, 08:23 PM
back....................

Lawn-Scapes
08-30-2004, 08:24 PM
fenced in pool area...................

Lawn-Scapes
08-30-2004, 08:25 PM
another pool area............

promower
08-30-2004, 08:26 PM
I use a 61" and my guess is 3.5-4.0 hrs from start to finish. I would charge about $225. Doesnt look like theres a ton of trimming just a lot of mowing. Looks like a nice kick back and relax job.

Lawn-Scapes
08-30-2004, 08:26 PM
another of the immediate front.. basically the only obstacles

Lawn-Scapes
08-30-2004, 08:28 PM
okay... done.

Thanks

hulan2
08-30-2004, 08:35 PM
I have one property that looks very similar. It is roughly 3 acres and wide open except for about 6 Bradfords that are about 2 years old. A slight hillside where I can't go as fast as the rest, about 12 minutes of trimmer work makes it really nice. It takes me 1 hour and 20 minutes on a 52" rider. The grand total comes to 1 hour and 45 minutes of work time, by myself. I cut it once a week and it is a mixture of fescue and bremuda.

As far as location, it is the only property in that area I have as well. It is about 10 minutes from home, but will soon be about 25 when I move(just bought a house). Even with that it will still be o.k. It is one of my favorites and the home owner always lets me know how good it looks, that is worth as much as money after dealing with some of the other customers I have. Hope this helps.

qualitylandscaping
08-30-2004, 09:02 PM
$195.. In and out in under two hours with two guys..

I would use this setup to do it..

Flex-Deck
08-30-2004, 09:07 PM
We (my wife and I) do a Target Store (4 1/2 acres) - In and out in 47 minutes. That includes trimming a bunch of curbs (all around the building and the parking lot). $120.
Thanks Brad

Lawn-Scapes
08-30-2004, 09:08 PM
I like your spunk Steve... I'd much rather be using this set-up. :)

qualitylandscaping
08-30-2004, 09:10 PM
Whatever makes ya happy:D

DennisF
08-30-2004, 09:14 PM
With a single 60" ZTR it will probably take 5 hours. Here in FL we get about $40 per acre up to 5 acres. 6-10 acres the price drops to $35-$38 per acre. Figure one hour per acre mowing time, then multiply that by the price per hour for mowing in your area. I like those types of jobs. Lots of easy, laid back mowing in wide open areas.

qualitylandscaping
08-30-2004, 09:19 PM
1 acre per hour??!!! I think you need to pickup the pace alittle.. I can mow an acre an hour in 3rd gear on a 48" belt walkbehind

DennisF
08-30-2004, 09:26 PM
Originally posted by Flex-Deck
We (my wife and I) do a Target Store (4 1/2 acres) - In and out in 47 minutes. That includes trimming a bunch of curbs (all around the building and the parking lot). $120.
Thanks Brad


4 1/2 acres in 47 minutes??? That's about 10 minutes per acre. The fastest I can mow an acre on my Hustler (and it is very fast) is about 30 minutes and that's if the turf is smooth and no obstacles to mow around.

Tom-N-Texas
08-30-2004, 09:27 PM
$225 sounds a tad low to me. But I guess it depends on what position you are in. If your schedule is packed full of lawns and you're working 10+ hours days, I'd say price it a bit higher. If you are stuggling along at 5-6 hours per day I'd say $225 is an ok price.

Also how often are they wanting it cut? That should also figure into your price.

Lawn-Scapes
08-30-2004, 09:29 PM
Brad.. what can I say except... You are the man! You have got to be the most efficient lawn cutter there is. Good for you!!!

Mycannon
08-30-2004, 09:32 PM
Originally posted by qualitylandscaping
1 acre per hour??!!! I think you need to pickup the pace alittle.. I can mow an acre an hour in 3rd gear on a 48" belt walkbehind I was thinking the same thing But i would have to agree with lawn scapes and I would take the 72s But this one will handle it no problem too. http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid137/pc2db3d3a64b8dd9c9d46fae7fb6c39d4/f7360b08.jpg

DennisF
08-30-2004, 09:34 PM
Originally posted by qualitylandscaping
1 acre per hour??!!! I think you need to pickup the pace alittle.. I can mow an acre an hour in 3rd gear on a 48" belt walkbehind

If he could mow the entire 5 acres with the mower running flat out ( not very likely ) he might be able to do it in 3 hours. By the time he trims and blows off the paved surfaces the job will be much closer to 5 hours total. At that pace he won't rattle his teeth or bounce his kidneys into oblivion.

Mycannon
08-30-2004, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by DennisF
If he could mow the entire 5 acres with the mower running flat out ( not very likely ) he might be able to do it in 3 hours. By the time he trims and blows off the paved surfaces the job will be much closer to 5 hours total. At that pace he won't rattle his teeth or bounce his kidneys into oblivion. I know my crew would be fired if they take 5 hrs on a job and iI only get 225:rolleyes: I could do that by myself in 3.5 hrs at the most on a 60

Green Care
08-30-2004, 09:41 PM
That's a big area never done anything like that good luck,would like too see what those choppers are made of.

CJ GreenScapes
08-30-2004, 09:43 PM
Off topic, but...

Lawn-Scapes, do your trimmers fit in the box on the side of your trailer?

Nice set-up, BTW.

Mycannon
08-30-2004, 09:43 PM
Originally posted by Green Care
That's a big area never done anything like that good luck,would like too see what those choppers are made of. About 45 min of choppen is all you would see cause they would be done before that:cry:

DennisF
08-30-2004, 09:46 PM
Originally posted by Mycannon
I know my crew would be fired if they take 5 hrs on a job and iI only get 225:rolleyes: I could do that by myself in 3.5 hrs at the most on a 60

Who said anything about a crew? Yeah... I could mow it myself in 3.5 hours. But then I like my body in the condition it's in just fine.

all ferris
08-30-2004, 09:46 PM
If you're going to get that price then I would buy a 72" mower. you'd be surprised at how much time you can pick up. Personally, I think the price is a bit high but different places have different "going rates". Around here I would bid that at about $140-$150 depending on the amount of trimming. My golden rule is to try to make at least $45(preferably $50) per hour including travel time. With a 72" mower you could cut 5 acres in 1 hour 10-20 minutes. If it was wide open you could do it faster yet. I used to do 2 soccer fields (5 acres) in 55 minutes including trimming around the 8 goal posts. I charged $80 for that (I know it's low but it was for the city, I try to do my part).

mowfun
08-30-2004, 10:02 PM
.

mowfun
08-30-2004, 10:03 PM
Learn to hold the camera still....

FINN
08-30-2004, 10:12 PM
Its been awhile for me but, from what I can see you have about a 3 hour job with both 72's on the ground and your clean up. Others may see it differently. I spoke with friend today and he said he was getting $270.00 for a 6 acre job. I asked him if he was pricing it by the K or by the hour. He said neither. The lady said she would pay him $270.00 and he said sure. Says he averages around 35/hr. He says its not great but he consistently gets a lot of other work during the month at this property.

promower
08-30-2004, 10:21 PM
I have a larger job about 8-9 acres total. 2-2.5 hrs of trimming. My record time from start to finish is 7 hrs with 1 60" I think 1 guy on that job would take 3, looks bumpy so you couldnt go wide open but theres hardly any obstacles, easy job. Theres no way it would 5 hrs unless your using a WB.

Flex-Deck
08-30-2004, 10:21 PM
Thanks Lawn Scapes - We mow it that fast because we have efficient equipment. here is my mower - 9 1/2 foot swath, and my wife uses one that is 78 inches wide (455 JD)
http://Wide Deck

Mycannon
08-30-2004, 10:34 PM
Originally posted by FINN
Its been awhile for me but, from what I can see you have about a 3 hour job with both 72's on the ground and your clean up. Others may see it differently. I spoke with friend today and he said he was getting $270.00 for a 6 acre job. I asked him if he was pricing it by the K or by the hour. He said neither. The lady said she would pay him $270.00 and he said sure. Says he averages around 35/hr. He says its not great but he consistently gets a lot of other work during the month at this property. I would almost bet that those 2-72 choppers would be done and off the grass in less than 45 min.

65hoss
08-30-2004, 10:37 PM
I do some big properties and I just don't see what the big deal is about this. With 2 choppers you should be in and out in 1.5 hours or less. 5 acres with 2 Z's is nothing. To much overestimating on this one. At the least each chopper should do 2.5 acres per hour. That is 5 acres cut in 1 hour(2 manhours) and 30 minutes for trimming.

That is worse case. I think it would be much faster than that.

Lawn-Scapes
08-30-2004, 11:01 PM
65hoss,

I was thinking along the lines of 3.5 - 4 hours solo. It depends how bumpy the whole thing is. I did walk across sections of the yard and it didn't feel good under my feet. If it were smooth.. there would be no doubt in my mind I could finish in 2.5 - 3 by myself.

I am basing the 3.5 - 4 hours on my current largest account that is 2.5 acres. It takes me 1.75 hours. It only has a 1/4 the trimming and doesn't have a fenced in pool area. The lawns are really bumpy here :eek:

CJ.. The boxes are for tools, blades, accessories, etc. Trimmers would not fit. I have a Trimmer Trap for them. Thanks for the comp...

Thanks everyone for your input... even you mowfun :p

Supertiger
08-30-2004, 11:31 PM
Ive been moweing a cemitary for 3 years now, it takes me on a 52"zero turn mower and two other people on weed eaters 6 hours to mow and weed eat. I get 675.00 per cut. I use about 6 gallons of fuel and pay out 96.00 in labor to the weed eater crew, i never did know how many acres were in the job but it looks very similer to those photos just with steeper hills and of course many head stones to mow around. this works out to be about 90 to 95 per hours after expenses. some times ill bring all he mowers and knock this job out fast enough to go mow other places before sun set.

Precision
08-31-2004, 07:50 AM
If the lawns are bumpy try to sell the client topdressing services to level it out.

2.5-3 acres per hour are a minimum with a decent 60 or 72 inch mower.

I get better than 1.5 acres per hour on 15" high Bahia

Itsgottobegreen
08-31-2004, 07:59 AM
Where about is this lawn? Somewhere around westminster, MD I am guessing. I am not that far from it. I might bid on it too. LOL Never mine, I got to much work now.

Lawn-Scapes
08-31-2004, 08:00 AM
Precision... if it were only that simple. One.. I don't think a topdressing would do the trick and two.. the costs would be very high to cover acreage. These lawns would need to be regraded... higher costs.

Lawn-Scapes
08-31-2004, 08:01 AM
Actually... it's in you neck of the woods. Mt Airy... right? How much you getting out there per acre?

chevyman1
08-31-2004, 08:19 AM
With my 60" dixie, including trimming I'd be out in 2 hrs...I try to avg a dollar a minute, plus the 45 minutes of extra driving need to be considered, I'd charge 175 a cut

ALarsh
08-31-2004, 08:20 AM
Originally posted by Flex-Deck
Thanks Lawn Scapes - We mow it that fast because we have efficient equipment. here is my mower - 9 1/2 foot swath, and my wife uses one that is 78 inches wide (455 JD)
http://Wide Deck

I saw that on ebay a while ago. Is that where you got it?

Lawn-Scapes
08-31-2004, 08:23 AM
Well.. I just got off the phone with the homeowner. I told him that it would be no less than $200 and as much as $240. I told him I'd like to cut it once and see... before I could finish my sentence I hear weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwhhh.

I said what's the matter.. did you have a price in mind already? He said.. well at my last house in an up-scale neighborhood of Montgomery County I was paying around $65 for 2.5 acres... so I was thinking of doubling that at $130.

He said.. let me talk with my wife.................................



:eek: :eek: :eek:

outsidepride
08-31-2004, 08:30 AM
We do a property with two people just around 5 Acres with about 30 min trimming 1 Hr 40 Mins total time with a kubota zd 21 60inch and walker with 48 deck

chevyman1
08-31-2004, 08:40 AM
Tell him you live in a rich part of Maryland, and to open up the wallet buddy!

Gravely_Man
08-31-2004, 10:50 AM
Lawn-Scapes tell us when you hear back from the customer. $130.00 is far too low for this region. Best of luck to you.


Gravely_Man

Richard Martin
08-31-2004, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by Lawn-Scapes

I said what's the matter.. did you have a price in mind already? He said.. well at my last house in an up-scale neighborhood of Montgomery County I was paying around $65 for 2.5 acres... so I was thinking of doubling that at $130.

He said.. let me talk with my wife.................................


Your homeowner needs to be informed that he is no longer in Montgomery County. That county is infested with lawn services and it is extremely cut throat. Up where you live at (I used to live in Hampstead and my family is from there) there is a lot less competition.

Stick to your guns. That is a lot of thick grass you have to cut there and unless you plan on leaving hay fields behind it will take a while to cut. Plan on 4+ man hours.

Itsgottobegreen
08-31-2004, 03:51 PM
We still have a lot of cut throats here in Mt. Airy. Since is so close to montgomery county. It also doesn't help that every farm/redneck owns a lazer and a pick up. I barely can get $75 -$80 for 2.5 acres. There is one scab that is getting $40 for the same job across the street. I was figuring $175 for that size. If you don't take it. Let me know. I might.

Blessed 1
08-31-2004, 04:09 PM
I have a property that size exactly. I takes me 1hr 45 minutes to cut with my 60" Lazer and my 48" Lazer wide open when possible. When I cut it alone on the 60" it takes me 3 hrs. I cut it Biweekly and get $300 a month.

SCAG POWER
08-31-2004, 04:39 PM
Take no less than $275.00 no matter how many times they have you back to cut it. Ido yards that big in florida and it will run you $275.00 thats just the starting price if the lawn has not been touched it will be more. Just remember the next time you go to the doctor or have to call an lawyer they don't work for free and neither should we.


STOP GIVING THIS STUFF A WAY,,,,,,NO PROFIT MEANS YOU AND YOUR FAMILY CAN'T EAT OR DO ANY THING ELSE.:alien:

Lawn-Scapes
08-31-2004, 05:22 PM
Oh.. I'm not lowering the price Richard. I also told the guy it would be $300 for the first cut because it hasn't been cut for 3 weeks... it's at least 10 inches tall. I think $200 weekly would have been a fair price. I think I could have done it in 3.5 hours and figured in .5 for travel.

Itsgottobegreen...... It's not mine to take.. I doubt he's calling back. If you are only gettin $75 for 2.5 acres I hate to ask what your're getting for 1 acre. You definitely make me feel better about what I'm getting paid.


What's really funny is when he first called yesterday afternoon @ 2pm... he said he was shocked to get a live voice on the phone. He said he called 10 companies from the phone book and had to leave messages. He also said that only one or two called back. I said how did you get my number ('cause I pulled my phonebook ad)? He said that his wife searched the ineternet and your website was the only one that popped up. His wife said she was impressed with the site, the work and that I even took credit cards. He closed the conversation by saying he was also impressed by our conversation and I was the most knowledgeable LCO he has spoken to.


I guess he & she weren't that impressed? :confused:



I think I need to rethink my game plan for next season... nothing larger than 2 acres!

txlawnking
08-31-2004, 05:45 PM
Scapes, I was thinking about $150 or so... I realise that the differnce in the cost of living there vs. here is considerable, still where do some of you guys come up with these numbers?? $275 a cut?? Get real. I agree with your price for the first cut for sure, But I don't think the guy ( HO) was off base too much.. If the wife told me all of the stuff you said in your last post, I would have said something like.." Yes ma'am, we take pride in our work and strive to be the best in biz, The price I quoted you is for a reliable, weekly service, that you and your husband will be proud to display.. Blah blah and so on.. It sounds like if you do a follow up they may bite.

I still don't understand the average "northern" ( no offense) homeowner though.. Around here, people with that much property either have their own ZTR, or a tractor and a bush hog... $1100 a month plus tax to have my personal ( non-income generating ) property cut??? $1100 a month will buy a 72" Ztr pretty quick... or it would dang near hire a full time "grounds maintenance" guy here locally..

gogetter
08-31-2004, 07:30 PM
Threads like this depress me! I see prices posted that break down to $28 and $30 per acre!!!

That's what people pay for 10K sq ft lawns!.

I understand there's differences based on location, but geez!.

I don't do lawns this size, but if I did my price would be around $225-240. Take it or leave it. I realize many would leave it, but that's fine by me.
I'll take eight 1/4 acre lawns at $30 each instead.

Then there's the guys that say "Well, I have a larger, faster riding mower. That's why I can do it cheaper".

HELLO!??? Don't you also have more money INVESTED in those larger, faster mowers too? Or were they free?

Sorry to get off your original topic Tom.
Some of the prices I see guys posting (and not just this thread either) burn me up a bit.
But they're usually the guys that are only in this for a year or two. Just long enough to hurt the market for those of us that are in it for the long haul.

americanlawn123
08-31-2004, 08:04 PM
looks like an easy mow except for the pool area. I'd bill it about .45 cents a minute. Which to me looks like about a 5 hour job depending on your equipment and edging, weedeating, cleanup. so .45 x 60 x 5=$135.00 if it's going to be a weekly contract. If it's high and it's only a one time deal or a bi-weekly type contract, i'd jack it up to about .65 cents a minute. .65 x 60 x 5 + $180.00

Flex-Deck
08-31-2004, 08:15 PM
5 Acres @ $20 per acre + $20 Unload fee = $120 @ 1 hr. mowing time = $100 per mowing hour + $20 to cover hauling mowers to the site.

The above numbers are with one machine, and just me. Thanks, Brad

Mycannon
08-31-2004, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by americanlawn123
looks like an easy mow except for the pool area. I'd bill it about .45 cents a minute. Which to me looks like about a 5 hour job depending on your equipment and edging, weedeating, cleanup. so .45 x 60 x 5=$135.00 if it's going to be a weekly contract. If it's high and it's only a one time deal or a bi-weekly type contract, i'd jack it up to about .65 cents a minute. .65 x 60 x 5 + $180.00 That quote fits your business name perfect:rolleyes:

Precision
08-31-2004, 09:58 PM
go getter,

I could;n't agree more. There are Scrub LCO's and there are scrub customers. Our job is matching the two. The way I do it is charge a decent price (one that generates a decent profit) and the scrub customers just go away.

Work smarter, not harder.

100 lawns at $26 an acre just makes you tired and poor.

shortgut
09-01-2004, 12:15 AM
guess I'm Lucky I still do most of my customers per hr more so the 1st time cutting a new place till I see what time frame it will take to do the job and make it look good

Tonyr
09-01-2004, 01:29 AM
I'd be bidding $240, like you $300 first clean. Minimum. being as it is so cut throat there.

I have to say I agree 100% with GOGETTER And PRECISION.

Lowering the per acre price just because we use bigger, better faster mowers isn't the point, it is to charge the same or be more competitive, and do the work faster to allow more work in the day. Not just ultra low square metre pricing. imo

over here you won't get a guy with a tractor and slasher less than $40 an acre.....about 10 mins work with windrows, no trimming etc. No comparison.

I usually bid a flat rate of $60 an acre, just because there is 5 acres doesn't mean my mower will cost me less to opperate, but being as we must cheapen to compete with cut throats i would not go there under 240 per cut.

I'm just confused with many cutting each others throat, just how cheap are we going to go?

20 an acre? Nah, get a wider mower, $10 an acre, guy down the road gets a bigger mower, $5 an acre, next guy, $2 an acre...reckon it ain't happening?

So many blokes are competing to be the cheapest to get work....how can this be good in the long term?
Answer is ain't, that's why many don't survive long, too cheap.

I never thought I'd hear guys on expensive ride ons cutting an acre for pocket money either, there will be no profit at all left soon....clients are telling us how cheap we have to be to cut their grass, surely there is some value in our service?

Another view is....big mowers cover more ground per hour, only time this benefits is if you have a very full schedule, 100's of acres a week, make it up in bulk....but I do think there becomes a point with how cheap we will mow an acre for when it becomes rediculously cheap and pointless.

Only ones who benefit is the tightass client who dictates your fees, the same client that will drop you fast if they can get someone even cheaper!

Oh heck guys....lets just mow for free, this levels the playing field, won't be long as we may as well be!

I can tell you one thing, in our economy we would not get to run/lease ZTR's if we worked as cheap as some of you guys, dunno how yas do it.....we should be all working to lift the bar, not lower it, also letting clients dictate our fees is stupid, bet your doctor doesn't negotiate with you, or dentist...so why are we willing to be negotiated into ultra low prices just because clients want more r&r money every weekend, than can afford standard rates, but they know they can pull a lot of guys down.

we are heading in the wrong direction guys....competing for the cheapest award ain't smart...living costs more and more, mowers cost more and more, we charge less and less....no wander people call us lawnwhores. Next time ya's get your Z's serviced, tell the mechanic you want to negotiate his fee, wander if he will play the game huh?

OK, My rant is over now....go wait to be shot to pieces now....

work_it
09-01-2004, 02:49 AM
Tonyr, you said exactly what I was thinking. Great post. Why would a lot of you guys drive the prices down into the ground by giving such rediculous rates?

The price/acre varies throughout Lousiville, which is why I try to stay away from the areas that don't want to pay a reasonable rate. The price per acre varies from $40 to $65, and quite honestly $40 isn't enough. The last time I checked the price of gas, oil, parts, etc... they didn't go down. IOW, it's getting more expensive to operate a lawn business.

There's a lot of successful companies in this area that won't drop their gate on a postage stamp lawn for less than $35. So why would you do an acre for less than a 3500 sq ft yard? I honestly hope I never become that desperate for work.

Also keep in mind that the bigger and more expensive mowers cost more to operate and maintain. I personally didn't buy a 61" Scag TT so I could cut my prices, but hey, that's just me.

Tonyr
09-01-2004, 09:43 PM
Thanks mate!

I agree totally....

I too sure didn't buy my new Toro Z588E earlier this year so I could work cheaper per acre, I bought it so I could charge the same but finish faster, that is how I lifted my hourly rate up, certainly not saying I can mow more with a bigger mower, and faster so I better reduce my fees cause I'm not on the job as long, duh!

No wander a lot of clients don't take us seriously, when guys practically beg for work or find they have to it sends a scarey message about our industry.
Too many new people in this industry just want to replace a job, they don't think it as a business, or they don't look down the track to see how they will survive if they keep dropping prices.

What would I know.....the industry is tough here too, but least I don't have to drop my pants to earn lunch...

BUMP :)

Mico Landscaping design
09-02-2004, 08:29 PM
I would not go no less than 300 and thats with 2 ppl out there and one person whipping we could knock it out in 1 hour 45 minutes or less and thats the truth but thats my 2 sense :) later

Flex-Deck
09-03-2004, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by Tonyr
I'd be bidding $240, like you $300 first clean. Minimum. being as it is so cut throat there.

I have to say I agree 100% with GOGETTER And PRECISION.

Lowering the per acre price just because we use bigger, better faster mowers isn't the point, it is to charge the same or be more competitive, and do the work faster to allow more work in the day. Not just ultra low square metre pricing. imo

over here you won't get a guy with a tractor and slasher less than $40 an acre.....about 10 mins work with windrows, no trimming etc. No comparison.

I usually bid a flat rate of $60 an acre, just because there is 5 acres doesn't mean my mower will cost me less to opperate, but being as we must cheapen to compete with cut throats i would not go there under 240 per cut.

I'm just confused with many cutting each others throat, just how cheap are we going to go?

20 an acre? Nah, get a wider mower, $10 an acre, guy down the road gets a bigger mower, $5 an acre, next guy, $2 an acre...reckon it ain't happening?

So many blokes are competing to be the cheapest to get work....how can this be good in the long term?
Answer is ain't, that's why many don't survive long, too cheap.

I never thought I'd hear guys on expensive ride ons cutting an acre for pocket money either, there will be no profit at all left soon....clients are telling us how cheap we have to be to cut their grass, surely there is some value in our service?

Another view is....big mowers cover more ground per hour, only time this benefits is if you have a very full schedule, 100's of acres a week, make it up in bulk....but I do think there becomes a point with how cheap we will mow an acre for when it becomes rediculously cheap and pointless.

Only ones who benefit is the tightass client who dictates your fees, the same client that will drop you fast if they can get someone even cheaper!

Oh heck guys....lets just mow for free, this levels the playing field, won't be long as we may as well be!

I can tell you one thing, in our economy we would not get to run/lease ZTR's if we worked as cheap as some of you guys, dunno how yas do it.....we should be all working to lift the bar, not lower it, also letting clients dictate our fees is stupid, bet your doctor doesn't negotiate with you, or dentist...so why are we willing to be negotiated into ultra low prices just because clients want more r&r money every weekend, than can afford standard rates, but they know they can pull a lot of guys down.

we are heading in the wrong direction guys....competing for the cheapest award ain't smart...living costs more and more, mowers cost more and more, we charge less and less....no wander people call us lawnwhores. Next time ya's get your Z's serviced, tell the mechanic you want to negotiate his fee, wander if he will play the game huh?

OK, My rant is over now....go wait to be shot to pieces now....

In SE. Iowa if you bid more that $20 per acre you just as well sell your equipment, because you will not have a job mowing grass - around here you have to figure out a way to be efficient and make money at the rate people are willing to pay - I angle mow - make straight lines, and am very proud of the final look - but I would not have the opportunity without being competitive on the bid, and would not make any money without super efficiency. Thanks, Brad

DLCS
09-03-2004, 04:29 PM
Originally posted by Flex-Deck
In SE. Iowa if you bid more that $20 per acre you just as well sell your equipment, because you will not have a job mowing grass - around here you have to figure out a way to be efficient and make money at the rate people are willing to pay - I angle mow - make straight lines, and am very proud of the final look - but I would not have the opportunity without being competitive on the bid, and would not make any money without super efficiency. Thanks, Brad


The green industry is just like manufacturing, the more productive and efficient the equipment the more money you can make. On a large job, I can make plenty of money at $20 a acre.

Tonyr
09-03-2004, 07:07 PM
Thanks Brad....

That is one ultra tough industry you guys have there mate!

I see your point now it is explained, just not a concept I'd take on.

You have machinery especially set up for large acreage, as you can't fight the beast you go with it but adapt, so to profit from rediculous pricing per acre to do an acre ultra fast....I can understand and appreciate what you are doing, you have no choice.

Guys out there on 52's and 60''s mowing acreage on your price structure just cause want the job is not the same though, with volume your hourly rate is great, but you need lots of volume,but at your priceing per acre on a standard Z, being slower to finish an acre means their their hourly rate is much less, to the point of why bother.

Can you see why I commented though?

Reading threads here about how low guys will go to beat the other guy etc, or don't have to charge standed area prices because they own cheaper gear, or guys don't understand business profit but only think they need to beat a wage so they lowball, only cut on weekends so don't have to charge full prices etc, etc. Sound business practices is one thing, straight out plain lowballing, and rediculous pricing is another.

I'm not meaning anyone in particular, very general thoughts only.

Thanks for replying Brad, take care mate.

(that Toro is a winner mate)

Soupy
09-29-2004, 12:41 AM
In SE. Iowa if you bid more that $20 per acre you just as well sell your equipment, because you will not have a job mowing grass - around here you have to figure out a way to be efficient and make money at the rate people are willing to pay - I angle mow - make straight lines, and am very proud of the final look - but I would not have the opportunity without being competitive on the bid, and would not make any money without super efficiency. Thanks, Brad


And who's fault is that? If the customers don't want to pay, why is it you and your competitors job to lower the price to something they will pay. Let them cut their own lawn for a while and lets just see how much they will pay. It is you and your competition fault that they will not pay what you deserve.

You should be bringing $175+/hr with that contraption of yours. Plain and simple. By the way, How much does a 10k lawn go for in your area? $5?

work_it
09-29-2004, 01:07 AM
LMAO, I was wondering the same thing. The way it sounds they must be charging 50 cents/1000 sq ft. Heck, if I move there (when I retire) I can afford to hire someone else to do my lawn.

ReckordGeneralMaintenance
09-29-2004, 01:42 AM
i mainly cut lawns from 1-3 acres but have a few 5 - 8 and i can do a 5 acre by myself in less then 3 hours for sure with your pics i would think about 2 1/2 hours with trimming max my with 60" lazer . and that would fall in the 150 to 175 rage for me i do like to get 50 an acre but one stop long open stretches of lawn you got to be kidding asking for more then that cause somebody will underbid you

economiclawncare
09-29-2004, 07:50 AM
i would charge $225-$250 and not think twice about it.