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View Full Version : Dealer wants $65 for a case of oil


siclmn
08-31-2004, 08:48 PM
They want $65 for a case of 2 cycle oil mix Echo brand. Is there a better way to buy my 2 cycle oil?

xcopterdoc
08-31-2004, 08:53 PM
buy bulk... about 275 per 55 gal drum

contourbs
08-31-2004, 08:54 PM
russo power sell 48 of them for 29 dollars, and it redmax oil

CapnDean
08-31-2004, 09:05 PM
opinions to offer.

Echo is not in the oil manufacturing biz. Neither is: OMC, Johnson, Evinrude, Bombardier, Mercury, Yamaha, Stihl, Mccullogh, John Deere, Seadoo etc.....

SO when you buy THEIR brand....Whose oil are you really buying?
I say it's all made by very few different manufacturers and the variation in quality is slim.

Use a name brand 2 cycle (TCW III) oil and you should be just fine. There is another option and that is to use a synthetic brand (Amsoil and others) But again... it is my OPINION that the true benefit of synthetic oil lies in it's resistance to breaking down over time - - In a two-stroke engine you burn it too fast for it to matter anyway.

Name ONE case that anyone anywhere can show that ANY specific brand of oil made the difference in whether or not an engine lasted any longer than it was designed to last: E.G.
"Damn shame you used valvoline....if you had used pennzoil that chevy 350 would still be kickin today"

No can do. I concede that there are times when one could say that a LACK of oil caused a failure. Or perhaps the wrong viscosity etcetera...but not that the BRAND made a hill of beans difference.

This opinion comes from a fellow who has put a lot of time on a lot of outboard motors. I have seen more engines ruined from VRO (variable ratio oiling) systems than for ANY other reason.

If you use BIA or NMCA certified TCWIII oils....you will never know the difference. Anybody that says otherwise is trying to sell you their brand of oil.

tazz6584
08-31-2004, 09:10 PM
we use no smoke 2 stroke 13.00 a gallon many years of service no problems

locutus
08-31-2004, 09:27 PM
Capndean, Amsoil has a superior film strength in comparison to other 2-cycle oils. This is why it lubricates at 100:1 better than most conventional 2-cycle oils lubricate at 50:l. An additional benefit is no fouled plugs or clogged exhaust ports. This has been my experience as well as hundreds of other Amsoil users. BTW, I have zero financial interest in Amsoil.

CapnDean
08-31-2004, 09:37 PM
Locutus:

I do not totally disagree with you here.
My point is that it is doubtful that the difference in quality would seriously affect the longevity of your equipment. I suppose the only way to prove this point would be to set up a lab test where you feed two identical 2 stroke motors two separate but unlimited supplies of gasoline. Mix one with Amsoil and the other with Texaco and let em rip til they quit.

Assuming that they both ultimately died of old age (and not prematurely from a non oil related ailment)....

CapnDean bets that the money you saved using the cheaper oil, would surpass the extra hours run time you got out of your motor.

Point being: I don't think that you could ever really tell the difference.

txlawnking
08-31-2004, 09:50 PM
Lets see.. Wouldn't you use less oil at 100:1 than at 50:1??? Less oil = less dollars maybe, Kapn'...

locutus
08-31-2004, 10:00 PM
Capn, I can already tell the difference with no clogged spark screens, fouled plugs or exhaust ports to service. Not to mention a noticable increase in power. The benefits were almost immidiate and noticable.

I agree with you that anecdotal experiences like mine are far from scientific, however enough of these types of experiences leads one to believe that perhaps the evidence is too strong to ignore, although right now I am the only one with his cods dangling in the wind.

geogunn
08-31-2004, 10:24 PM
Originally posted by CapnDean
Echo is not in the oil manufacturing biz. Neither is:...Mercury.....

the H with what it takes to make an echo run.....

only QUICKSILVER mixes with the gas on my boat!!!

GEO

odin
08-31-2004, 10:31 PM
amsoil goes in all my two cycle stuff at 80 to 1 . I buy it by the case its on my porch a couple days later .....like said no nothing collect on the plugs and mufflers no mo.

Even those little screens inside the muffler they dont plug up no mo with amsoil.

Forest
08-31-2004, 10:43 PM
If you've got a Schaeffers dealer in you're area you should find him and have him give you a bearing demonstration using there oil compared to Penzoil or Valvoline, etc. It's absolutly amazing how much of a difference oil makes in the LONG run. IMO.:D

crawdad
09-01-2004, 07:43 AM
Originally posted by CapnDean
opinions to offer.

Echo is not in the oil manufacturing biz. Neither is: OMC, Johnson, Evinrude, Bombardier, Mercury, Yamaha, Stihl, Mccullogh, John Deere, Seadoo etc.....

SO when you buy THEIR brand....Whose oil are you really buying?
I say it's all made by very few different manufacturers and the variation in quality is slim.

.......

Agreed. I don't think any of those companies make their own carburators either. But, it's made to their specs. I only run Stihl oil in my stihl stuff, and I laugh at these threads such as, "Hard to start stihl" My Stihl chain saw is from 1985, and the only thing replaced has been spark plugs and one fuel line, though it is about time for a new air filter. My other Stihl stuff runs like brand new.
Crawdad
PS I only put Lawnboy oil in my lawnboy, too.

Tvov
09-01-2004, 08:13 AM
Originally posted by Remo
They want $65 for a case of 2 cycle oil mix Echo brand. Is there a better way to buy my 2 cycle oil?

Is this for new equipment under warranty? If so, bite the bullet and use the manufacturer's oil. Using after market oil usually negates the warranty.

I pretty much agree with CapnDean. If it is not under warranty, I am in the camp of using the cheapest stuff available that meets specifications.

DEA
09-01-2004, 08:59 AM
Being an old school dirt biker from the 70's.
I use synthetic Klotz 2 cycle oil in my Mantis,Stihl leaf blower,Husky.saw ,Homelite Weedeater(no big loss though).
Burn clean with a certain aroma scent
Go to a motorcycle shop and look around.
This is all for personal use I don't hava a lawn care business.
I would be real leary of mixing anything much past 50 or 60 to 1 ratio

tx_angler
09-01-2004, 10:05 AM
Originally posted by Tvov
Is this for new equipment under warranty? If so, bite the bullet and use the manufacturer's oil. Using after market oil usually negates the warranty.

This is incorrect

FTC regulations (the Magnuson-Moss Act) state: “(c) No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer’s using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the Commission if – ((1)the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and (2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest.” ((42 U.S.C.2302(C))


With that being said I own a Yamaha 225 EFI outboard and have run Pensoil from day one in it without any problems and I run Optimax oil in all my two cycle lawn equipment again without any problems.

txlawnking
09-01-2004, 10:09 AM
DEA, klotz is what I used to run in my 2 stroke bikes too.. Great stuff.

Fareway Lawncare
09-01-2004, 10:16 AM
Echo's new Power Blend is Synthetic based & designed for todays hotter running 2 strokes....the old Echo oil was petrolium based...


I believe Echo still has a Buy 1 Box Get 1 Box Free promotion on the Power Blend....Ask Your Dealer!

mpblass
09-01-2004, 11:59 AM
CapnDean,

Just because an oil gets the TCWIII rating does not mean that they are all the same. That just means that they have the minimum requirements to meet the rating. I manage a boat dealership and we see far more engine failures on outboards that have been running the cheaper Penzoil TCWIII over the OEM branded oil. I am all for saving money but on the life blood of my engines I will always pay more.

Tvov
09-01-2004, 12:28 PM
Originally posted by tx_angler
This is incorrect


Learn something new everyday. You're right. I just checked one of the manuals for my Echos, and if you read it carefully you can use any oil that meets specifications. Of course, they word it to sound like you have to use Echo oil.

Gravely_Man
09-01-2004, 12:58 PM
That is one expensive case of oil! As pointed out buy in bulk and save money. This does however mean you have to have a place to store the buld drum of oil.


Gravely_Man

dkeisala
09-01-2004, 03:13 PM
I always just pick up a quart of Chevron 2 cycle oil when we are fueling up. Mostly Stihl stuff and never had a problem using it.

CapnDean
09-01-2004, 05:37 PM
MPBlass:

I agree that TCWIII oils are not all the same.

I disagree that you can PROVE that pennnzoil outboard oil made the difference in ANY of your engine failures.

In fact if you have the outboard experience that I have you would likely agree that you have lost more powerheads due to failure of the oiling system (VRO, OPTIMAX etc) than you have from any sort of oil quality problem.

Add to that the number of oil starvation failures - - That's not the oil's fault if you get my meaning.

I would say the only REAL difference is the tendency of cheaper oils to "coke up" or leave carbon deposits enmasse.

But again...it's awful hard to tear down a motor and say with any conviction: "AHA.....cheap oil cause this ring to stick".

mpblass
09-01-2004, 07:14 PM
Capndean
Your point is well taken. I also agree that most engine failures are due to oil starvation, especially so in outboards with VRO systems. But like you said cheaper oils do leave more carbon deposits which will shorten an engine life. So why not spend the couple extra dollars on the better oil?

Gene $immons
09-01-2004, 07:58 PM
I am also interested in buying oil for my 2 cycle equipment in bulk. Has anyone done this, and where do you buy it from?

CapnDean
09-01-2004, 08:36 PM
OKay: Respectfully submitted: And again..not in total disagreement here....

Have you ever been able to pinpoint carbon buildup as the root cause of an engine failure?

My position is that most 2 stroke equipment gives up the goat for reasons OTHER than oil quality, long before carbon build-up or any of the 'benefits' you might receive from using more expensive oil. So what? Who cares if your weedeater has perfect compression....when the whole rest of the unit is shot.

My 225 outboard is 8 years old.....it runs great....but by the time piston & cylinder wear are the issue....I will likely have replaced it because of the myriad of OTHER gremlins I will be fighting by then.

E.G. Saltwater corrosion, lower unit probs, (oh yeah #1 reason capndean unloads an outboard - - Lack of dependability).

When my 10 year old outboard leaves me 30 miles offshore rolling in on the kicker...it's time to re-shoe the horse.

I must concede however that I use 2 stroke oil in a much larger quantity than most LCO's do. And in that case....the $$ is not that much. I probably run on average 150 gallons of gas per week through my outboard during the summer months. That's 3 gallons of oil... In my case...over the life of the motor I can save enough buying oil at 9 bucks a gallon...to make a hefty down payment on a new motor.

(20 weeks X 3 gallons = 60 gallons X 10 years = $5400 @ $9)
(600 X $20 = $12000)
($12,000 - $5400 = $6600) - - so in theory I am $6600 towards a new motor. Okay...so mebbe I use 1/2 as much as I say....remember I am just a guessing here... Still I am between $3k & $6K in savings.

CapnDean sez he will get the 10 years out of his motor whether he uses Amsoil or whatever it is I buy in bulk methinks it's texaco but I wouldn't swear on it.



Of course I do periodically run that sea-foam (carbon remover) through it...and of course that is what the mfr SAYS to do...

So: In my experience....it's not worth it to buy quicksilver, Johnson, Bombardier or whatever. Just gimmee the Texaco or Chevron (or even walmart brand)....

I do enjoy this thread though...and I hope you don't eye me as a wisenheimer over it... it's just my experience and opinion. I do welcome the other side of this debate.

CapnDean
09-01-2004, 08:48 PM
So when you read in the paper that CapnDean hit a dredge or a piece of concrete rip-rap and demolished his outboard....

We will never know....

Oh yeah...by the way: My dealer always tells me to get the amsoil too. He agrees with you. But: He always works on my motor with a smile and even he respects my position....

He says: "Worse case scenario is that I sell you another motor sooner"

:angel:

Runner
09-01-2004, 10:52 PM
I use Pennzoil, Valvoline, and I have even run some off brands found in local Total station type convenience places. I mix 8 oz. in 2 gallons of gas. I've ran my Echo trimmers for nearly 10 years now, and they all run like champs. I just buy the quarts.
To answer the question about bulk, a friend of mine gets his Stilhl 2 stroker oil in a 5 gal. pail. He has a pump on it to fill quart size bottles.

ScCo
09-01-2004, 11:48 PM
I give $1.89 for the stihl 2 stroke oil in the bottles that mix with 5 gallons of gas. Can't complain with how it has served me, and the price seems fair, so I tend to just leave well enough alone.

I will however say that that mix ratios on the amsoil do strike some interest in my mind.