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sjj14
09-01-2004, 08:31 PM
I have a customer with a man made creek running thru his prop. It does act as a storm runoff so alot of h20 passes thru it and on to others properties. I have been treating with round-up every 3 weeks or so. My question is there anything that will give me longer lasting control. Keeping in mind that any granular will be carried away by thunderstorms!

Ric
09-01-2004, 08:47 PM
Originally posted by sjj14
I have a customer with a man made creek running thru his prop. It does act as a storm runoff so alot of h20 passes thru it and on to others properties. I have been treating with round-up every 3 weeks or so. My question is there anything that will give me longer lasting control. Keeping in mind that any granular will be carried away by thunderstorms!

sjj14


Read the label Read the label.

Roundup states on the label not to be used in drainage areas. The surfactants in Roundup kill fish. If you get caught using Roundup in a creek or its drainage area you can get a big fine from the EPA.

Reward is labeled for Aquatic use and So is Aquamaster. Yes they cost more and only do as good a job as Roundup but at least they are legal to use ina Aquatic site.

By not reading and following the label you are feeding the Tree Huggers that want to ban all pesticides. Be smart and do things right.

sjj14
09-01-2004, 08:50 PM
there is no body of water nearby, it was merely a wet swale in the lawnn that the home had rocked for asthetics.

Ric
09-01-2004, 09:06 PM
READ THE LABEL IDIOT

sjj14
09-01-2004, 09:14 PM
listen Jackass this anit south florida, it would be no different than spraying in his yard 10 feet away right? obviously i have your opinion know beat it dude!

James Cormier
09-01-2004, 10:35 PM
I must agree with ric, the label is the law, remember just because you dont see a body of water nearby, where do you think the water is going?

Grassmechanic
09-01-2004, 10:37 PM
sjj14 - Ric is correct, the EPA will hang you high for applying unlabeled pesticides to a creek bed, water or no water, man made or not. As you stated, the creek carries water to surrounding properties. Those property owners have riparian rights and you'll need written permission to treat that creek. That said, Rodeo is also another glyphosate based product that is labeled for aquatic management.

Talstar
09-01-2004, 11:09 PM
HOLY SCARY CAPTIN BACK-PACK !!!

Ric
09-01-2004, 11:25 PM
Originally posted by Talstar
HOLY SCARY CAPTIN BACK-PACK !!!

Talstar

Please use the full rank That is Adrimal Stationwagon and Captin Back Pack.

cantoo
09-01-2004, 11:36 PM
It's great to have guys like ric on this site to help people. Stone must have already migrated south for the winter.

I am sure that he has already read the label he is asking for options not asskickings. He said it acts as a storm runoff he never said it ended at a river or creek.
I have the same type of problem here only we need to control weeds not the grass. There are lots of properties here that have grass runways leading to wide open grass areas just to slow the flow of storm water they do not go to any source of water or fish habitat. Beside my house is a one mile long grass runway that ends in a 3 acre grass area. Right now the guy treating it just sprays it whenever no matter what the weather forecast is. I have suggested that he only spray the area when we have no rain in the forecast. If I just told him to read the label and offers no other opition he would be the one calling me an idiot and telling me to mind my own business.
PS, I kanit reed wotethe a sheeitete, tham labools are confuzzing fur me ta reed.

Precision
09-02-2004, 02:17 AM
Why must people get annoyed when others tell them to look at the directions.

If we all took the time to read the labels we wouldn't get an asskicking. If we all didn't thing the law didn't apply to us we wouldn't have so many restrictions on what we could do.

As usual Ric is right, perhaps loud and annoying, but imagine if you were a pest control guy and had to deal with ALL the regs and inspection created by fools that spray whatever whereever.

sjj14
09-02-2004, 05:26 PM
thank you cantoo, do read labels and am aware of laws and regs. just looking for options not a lesson in label reading from someone who does not seem to recognize my particular situation. The product or any product would have to grow wings and fly to the nearest body of water. while there are neighbors "down stream" they are down stream from everything I apply on this property. Does this mean I cant treat with any product not labeld for Aquatics? I think not!

blackberry
09-02-2004, 06:47 PM
I do hope you are licensed to spray in PA! If you are not, hire someone who is!!!!!!!

MrBarefoot
09-02-2004, 10:58 PM
Originally posted by sjj14
I have a customer with a man made creek running thru his prop. It does act as a storm runoff so alot of h20 passes thru it and on to others properties. I have been treating with round-up every 3 weeks or so. My question is there anything that will give me longer lasting control. Keeping in mind that any granular will be carried away by thunderstorms!

sjj14,

First, I really hope you are fully licensed to apply pesticide. You are drawing a lot of attention to yourself, and I suspect that if there is a way to identify you, then you will find yourself on the receiving end of your states Dept of Ag's scrutiny soon.

Second, the way your opening paragraph reads, it sounds like you are applying roundup into a waterway, or at least into an area where you know it is likely to be washed into the waterway. The label for Roundup prohibits its use in some of these areas.

Responsible Pesticide applicators will do everything in their power to minimize the drift of their products to non target areas. If I understanding of your words correctly, then I submit your application technique does not rise to this standard.

Ric is smart, and blunt. He also is an ardent defender of IPM, ethical, and responsible pesticide use. Get on his bad side at your peril. His words where exactly what other people felt, they just didn't say it.

Of course, my interpretation of your first post may be wrong, and you are not applying Round-Up into a dry waterway, or into areas where it is likely to wash into a waterway. If that is true then set the record straight.

If on the other hand you ARE using Round-Up in this manner, then you just might be breaking a federal law, by using a pesticide in a manner inconsistent with its label. It would be RESPONSIBLE, and ETHICAL to use a products labeled for aquatic use, even if what you are doing is in a gray area, or the label is not crystal clear.

In any event, you might want to make sure that all your pesticide records are in order and that your operation is conforming to your states reg's, just in case they feel the need to check on your operation...

ArizPestWeed
09-02-2004, 11:22 PM
labels & licenses are over rated

lawnboyCO
09-02-2004, 11:29 PM
wow, are you serious

Ric
09-03-2004, 12:01 AM
Originally posted by lawnboyCO
wow, are you serious


We have just lost Diazinon. Gone taken off the Market just this last month. There is a long list of other pesticides before Diazinon and a long long list to follow.

Why are these chemical no longer available?? Because of misuse by consumers both licensed and unlicensed. I blame the manufactures and there corporate greed for profit first and the EPA second because they do not regulate pesticide sales through retail stores. I feel if manufactures would put better labels, restricting the use to professionals only and if States would require better education of Certified Pesticide operator The industry and the environment would be in better shape.

It burns my butt to read posts by Idiots who think they know it all and apply pesticides indiscriminately. First they are hurting mother nature and second they are hurting the industry that I make my living from. No I have not had a pesticide license all my life. In my late 50's I returned to college and got my second degree after my 60th birthday, this time in Horticulture. I earned the right to legally apply pesticides and paid with hard work and money to earn that right. If I can do it then so can others. If anyone feels they can go into Home Cheapo and buy what ever and apply it then I will do anything in my power to see that they get the maxim fine. They are messing with my profession and stealing my work.

LwnmwrMan22
09-03-2004, 12:06 AM
Originally posted by Bill Williams
labels & licenses are over rated


:eek:

Nothing like trying to get someone's gander up.


Anways, I think what sjj-whatever the name is, is trying to get to, is that there is probably a "drainage ditch" but not a drainage ditch.

We have it here in MN, where, when grading the properties before they build them, they sort of mound up the land, especially if they're trying to turn the properties into houses with walk-out basements.

The areas of "low land" are in between these properties, and depending on how they run through the area, could be a block or two long, depending on the lay of the land, how the builder plotted the lots, how the streets run, etc.

The owner probably put rock in, since water would always seem to "pond" there, in the spring time and if it were a rainy season, thinking that he wouldn't have to mow anymore.

Over the years the rocks have become infested with weeds, and instead of doing the right thing and re-excavating the area and redoing it, since it was probably a home-owner job in the first place, elects to just have the weeds sprayed with round up.

There's really no place for water to run to, it's more or less a landlocked ditch.

ArizPestWeed
09-03-2004, 12:19 AM
Geeez Ric
Can't ya take a joke ?
lol

GroundKprs
09-03-2004, 12:21 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ric quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Bill Williams
labels & licenses are over rated
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Aww, Ric, go easy on him. He probably can't read and has no license. How else can he defend himself?

Ric
09-03-2004, 12:33 AM
Originally posted by Bill Williams
Geeez Ric
Can't ya take a joke ?
lol

No I can't take a stupid joke right now

The last three weeks since Charley have been the most stressful of my Life. Saturday I am faceing anothe Hurricane named Frances. Everything I worked for was wiped out and no crop insurance. I lost 3 rental mobil homes and the the insurance company does want to give me squat. My Green houses are flat and my plants are damaged be on saving because I have no irrigation, it is gone with the wind like every thing else I have worked so hard for. I Just lost 1.2 million Dollars in an 1 1/2 hour hurricane, so no I can't take a joke. F. U.

ArizPestWeed
09-03-2004, 12:51 AM
Geeez
You probably deserve it .
You still get power , though .

Ric
09-03-2004, 01:05 AM
Originally posted by Bill Williams
Geeez
You probably deserve it .
You still get power , though .


Yes after living two weeks with out electric I have power. August is the hottest most humid month in Florida. 100% Humidity and 95 degree days. My Skid Loader doesn't have air conditioning and Although there is plenty of tree removal, I don't know if I will have any customer left because they have no landscape. I will end up buying my plants from Home Cheapo for installs Because I don't have 1/4 million to buy replacement stock for cash. Sorry no credit in the nursery business. I just landed a nice clean up contract today and started it today. So at least I can pay my nut this month.

sjj14
09-03-2004, 04:33 PM
let me the record straight. I made no mention of any body of water, but i can see how it sounds reading it again. I am very familiar with the surrounding properties and there is not running water through continuosly through the area sprayed.
I am not trying to "win" any arguement here just looking for info! I am quite confident that where i am spraying does not fall into the "aquatic" zone with the exception of during a heavy rain. The end of the area simply goes from the river rock back to grass. there is no adjacent waterway either nearby or even close by.

sjj14
09-03-2004, 04:43 PM
I was not looking to start a war of words! possibly my lack of detail in explaining the situation was to blame. However lets stick to topics and not jump into lambasting people without all the details. It is difficult to give all details on any situation over the net, lets keep that in mind.

cantoo
09-03-2004, 11:27 PM
Ric, how is Stone's van? Still by the river?
Is he going back down there this winter? Just wondering if he's still in the biz or not.
As for the labels and all that crap, I don't even bother asking if they have one anymore, anyone who in their right mind would say on here that they have no licence? One of the joys of the internet is that you can be whatever you want to be.

Ric
09-03-2004, 11:44 PM
cantoo

At least with Stone, what you see is what you get. We he is alive and well. He is still in the busz and will be leaving for a one week sea cruse soon from NYC. He will start his annual Southern Tour around November 15th.