partner advice

[guntruck]

I would like to run a scenario by you guys please and get some advice. My brother and are are partners here in our company, as in we split everything 50/50. Right now all the $$$$ goes into all our equipment bills and phone and everything that has to do with our business. We both work full time, and come spring im sure we will fill our quota quickly of how many accounts we can handle. Do any of you havce any input on maybe if one of us should quit first and jump in with both feet and attack more jobs? Then when things get busy and steady the other quit? Also here is the big one, some of you own your bus. and have a helper, we split it down the middle. So technically we should be working separately having 2 complete setups just to make what 1 guy does with a helper beings we split 50/50 right? It looks like we need to double our work to maintain good cash flow yes? no? maybe? We both love this business very much and have always done it on the side, we get along very well and instead of competing we decided to work together beings we can trust eachother. Sorry for the length but this has been bugging me.

Thanks for ANY help!!!!

[Fantasy Lawns]

Rich your in for a ride if both of you don't see eye to eye on 90% of you decisions .......$$ is going to so tight with the 50/50 split for the first few years depending on your set up (work out of home if you can as long as possible) .....I kept my job for about the first 6 months of business while my partner kept his for about 1 year & then he still worked part time at nite ( wife & 2 kids) .... BUT in the long run it is the best deal....as one can acually take time off while the other "owner" is availiable....get a good CPA ...think of setting up as an S corp (limits your liability and officers do not have to be covered by Workmans Comp, I take as little of a paycheck as legally possible and then get a "dividend" for my stock shares, but I also have not bought gas for my "company" truck in 4 years and my company takes me out to dinner alot, pays for my insurance etc. as almost "everything" is business related ....I could go on & on.....but if you love what you do.....then you can find a way to make it work and if you have to split up...you can join back together later on and help on another in the mean time....good luck

[1MajorTom]

Well I'm not sure I can answer your questions, but I will touch upon a few points.

One of the first things I looked for in your post was to see how well you and your brother got along. That there is KEY.

Right now both of you are doing this on the side without having to rely on lawncare as your SOLE income.
If both of you were to jump right in, you may find that there is a lot of added pressure. Pressure sometimes causes friction even between the best of brothers. Maybe the brother with the better paying full time job could keep his, while the other brother got things going??? Just a thought.

I know how hard it can be, because we are a husband and wife team. We both quit our full time jobs and jumped right in. A lot of times we disagree on how things should be handled. So that's why I said that it's good that you and your brother get along well. But do you also work well together when there is a crisis or problem that needs to be handled? If one of you are the leader and the other one the follower, then working together might be ok. But if you both like to be boss, and call the shots, then maybe you shouldn't partner up. I speak from experience on this one, because both my husband and I like to be boss, and believe me, that makes it rough.

Right now for us, we find it is more profitable for us to work as a team without employees. So for now, we don't need two trucks, more insurance costs, more equipment, hassles with hiring employees, PAYING employees. One day yes, we might get to that point, but I personally wouldn't suggest that route for someone that is just starting out.
Of course that is just my opinion.

In conclusion, if one of you have a really good paying job, I would hold on to it. Have the other brother start the business, get it up and running, while the brother with the job helps part-time. Once the business is up and running good, then the other brother could then partner up.


Jodi

[kutnkru]

I have found that with my brother as my partner even though we haven't lived under the same roof in over 10 years, that sometimes the BIG BROTHER syndrome hits the office.

To avoid this we have implemented a policy of majority vote wins. The "board" is both maintenace and our landscape foreman plus ourselves. The only drawback is when he and I agree and they disagree, noses could get bent.

Hope this helps.
Kris

[Randy Scott]

guntruck, good luck with whatever you decide, because ultimately the decision can only be made by you, and you alone.I have never been in a partnership, and never will. I guess because my father had bad ones and ever since I was young he said not to get involved with them.Not that they are not out there, but I do not know of one partnership that has worked out or one of them haven't got scre#@$. To me, it's just one more headache thrown into the mix. There are a million things in a day to deal with, why add another. I started the ball rolling on my business 3 months ago and this summer will be my first year doing it. All the decisions I have had to make these last three months have been somewhat overwhelming,What equipment to buy ? What trailer to get ? What letterhead, business card design, software program, office equipment, where to put advertising money, what to charge people ? And a million other little things. I couldn't imagine having to make all those decisions and coming to an agreement also with someone elses ideas as well as mine. Just my opinion and good luck with your decision and your business.

[kutnkru]

I agree with Randy 100% about partnership (my fathers advice as well).

but I still cannot beat up my older brother so maybe in 10 years or so when he's 50 I can muscle him out. -- LOL

Kris

[Randy Scott]

kutnkru, you gotta get him when he's not lookin'. LOL

[kutnkru]

Actually it has worked out better than planned with the Board reviewing all decisions that impact the company directly. Good thing is if the board gets out of line, we can always hire a new board.

Kris

[guntruck]

Well thanks guys, makes things a little more promising. thus far any and all decisions have been made on both parts and we have questioned each other at times but always trusted the other one. If something doesnt work we try another way, but i know exactly what you mean because small disagreements almost blew up into wars =). But i believe ultimately if you want the business to thrive and its important enough then you will make it happen. Thanks again everyone for the comments.

[Green Finger]

Yo Guntruck,

Let me drop a little info on you. Before you continue to do any more business with your brother.(Part-time or Full-Time)

Go to a lawyer and get a professional partnership agreeement. You might spend a little money now but, it will save you both some major problems.

Have him spell out everything. Who gets what, Who owns what everything!

Reason why?

If you do this business half way right, you guys are going to make a lot of money. AND MONEY CAN CHANGE THINGS. MONEY CAN CHANGE THE WAY PEOPLE THINK, ACT, OR EVEN SMELL.

Who ever came up with the majority of the ideas, equipment, and money should have the majority control.

PROTECT YOURSELF. MILLIONS OF DOLLARS HAVE PASSED THROUGH MY HANDS AND BECAUSE I DIDN'T HAVE A PARTNERSHIP AGREEMENT I GOT SCREWED. FAMILY, FRIENDS, OR STRANGERS THEY ALL CAN SCREW YOU.

It's not worth having bad blood with other people because we didn't take advice from others.BELEIVE ME, I KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. SEVERAL OF MY FORMER BEST FRIENDS STILL DON'T TALK TO ME.

I'm not against partnerships but do it the right way!

Thinks about it.
Just a little info, for ya

[awm]

I think you should let it ride like it is
another season.Especialy if both have good
jobs.Either way there need to be a final word
boss.The real key position is the 2nd brother
in charge.The success of the buisiness really
depends on whether he can handle that job.Also
can num 1 brother handle splitting it down middle.
Sounds like a great opportunity if you both have
good heads on your shoulders.Just mine TM

[JimLewis]

Well, you certainly have a ton of great advice here already. I agree with most all of what was said above. Great advice. I am very against partnerships as well for the same reasons mentioned above. But in your case, if you are close, it may work out. I'll leave that to you.

As for going at it full time, etc. I'd recommend you both go at it full time as soon as possible. That is, as soon as you are bringing in enough money to pay each of your bills each month (not to go out and be lavish, just enough to pay the bills), then I'd jump into it full time - the both of you. But not until then.

Reason being; you will find that until that time, you have a difficult time focusing on each endevor. Furthermore, you will find that once you make that leap, you will be forced to take your free time to grow the business. Only out of need comes a larger business. I did it this way. And I don't regret it. Albeit I did have to take a part time job my first winter. But every year since has been great. I wouldn't have grown so much and so fast if the need hadn't have been there.

[awm]

Y ou rite .Isaid wait because it sounds like
they mabe half season or more from taking that
much in. TM

[double e]

I had a partner for 2 years- I was 19 he was 60- and we had different views of lawn maintanence. He wanted to stay small-odvoiusly being retired-I was 19 looking for a career.

I eventually brought him out- The best thing I've ever done.
I wish I did this many years ago.

On the other hand- I know two brothers in my area that have been in the game for as long as I remember. They work great together. Most partnerships don't work out- But some do.
You have to have a good chemistry- and the same goals! Talk to him and see where he wants to be in 5 years.

Lots of luck

[Vibe Ray]

I wouldn't do another partnership myself. Me and a friend started out together and it didn't take me long to end
it(couple months). Not that he was a good parner, I know he was a horrible one, but I realized that everyone thinks differently and it is absolutely impossible for you both to be positively happy and content with everything because, just like marriage, patnership is full of compromises(a whole lot of 'em!). There is NOTHING like making a decision about your business and NOONE questions you! You need to be able to do things your way and learn why they are good or bad choices. Needless to say we don't talk as much anymore, but still a little....and we used to be best friends!!!! I think a person should be in charge of their own business,life,etc. I advise against partnerships in general, not just family and friends.

[syzer]

Hey hey...been a while since I have posted here, but I am guntrucks bro =). I think that we are both flexible enough to meet any and all goals of the business without killing eachother. As Rich said, we get along great, better then any two brothers I know. Of course we get into our disagreements, but who doesnt. All in all I think that we have alot to be thankful for..including a very supportive family. I know things will get tough and hectic in the summer time being he will probably be out cutting up some turf while I'm pinned in an office watching the beautiful day slowly pass me buy, but we have to make sacrafices for things to work out in the long run. Thanks everyone for all your insite, it is very much appreciated.

Chris

[Runner]

I started out with a partner who ended up trying to steal work from the company.(not reporting it.) Here's a little story that one of my Business Professors told us. Two guys, that had a business firm and handled a great deal of money, left to go out of town to a convention. About an hour or so into the drive, one of the partners says to the other one, "Hey, we need to turn around because I think I left the safe unlocked!" The other partner said, "So." "Well, aren't you worried about the money disappearing?" asked the first partner. "Not really." "And why is that?" The first partner asked. "Because, we are both right here!"

[cantoo]

Is there something you guys haven't mentioned that may change things soon???
Remember you both will have girlfriends/wives in on this partnership too at some point. Not to rain on your parade but I also think you should go to a lawyer and get some rules drawn up now instead of later.

[guntruck]

Well we have made an agreement to leave the business matters to ourselves and the woman stay out for now except of course to maybe help with the office end of it. But i do thank you guys for the advice.

[Green Finger]

Yo Gumtruck,

REMEMBER THESE WORDS: GO TO A LAWYER AND GET A PROFESSIONAL PARTNERSHIP AGREEMENT DONE. WE ARE NOT TELLING YOU THINGS TO PLAYA HATE. WE ARE TELLING YOU THINGS BECAUSE OF WISDOM.

PRIDE COMES BEFORE DESTRUCTION.

I'M FROM MD AND IF YOU NEED HELP IN FINDING A LAWYER, HIT ME UP.

[lawrence stone]

At the least you need a buy sell agreement backed up by life insurance in case of the death of a partner.

[guntruck]

Green finger i understand totally and like i said i really appreciate the help. All things said here i consider very important and serious, i've started my business with the help from guys on here. I take everything into consideration then make decision. Larry, yeah we are looking into that as we speak, thanks.

[parkwest]

My two cents worth. Ask yourself why a ship only has one captain, a team only one head coach. Could it be the same reason GM or Ford only has one CEO. I see nothing wrong with brothers working together, in fact I think it's great but you will need to decide who is the natural leader of the two of you and then take advantage of that.

Partnerships don't work. A college prof. of mine said to enter a partnership only if you can not do it yourself, with the intention of buying out your partner as soon as possible. There are too many liabilities past between partners to justify the risk.

Hey, I just thought of something. Maybe that is why most of todays marriages are ending in divorce. The man is no longer "Head of the family" but more of a partnership arrangement. Did anyone see the Dateline show on Monday?

[guntruck]

Well i usually have no problems making the decisions and so forth. Although we are partners i would say that we both agree that my younger brother pretty much just goes witt the flow. This year will be a good test run. I have much confidence though, remember, the things that happen to us happen by our choice!!!

[guntruck]

Oh and i didnt see dateline but good point bout the marriage thing, gets you thinking