View Full Version : Bam! Outta business.

DFW Area Landscaper
09-02-2004, 07:08 PM
Yesterday I was running the back pack blower and I bent over to pick up a customer's news paper and throw it on the porch. BAM!!!!

Back is out. Throw the back pack off and drop the ground. This happened about 6 weeks ago on a Sunday as I was bending over to pick up the shampoo bottle. I just laid on the couch all day and Monday morning I was still a little soar, but once I started working and got the muscles warmed up, everything was fine.

Well, I tried the same thing yesterday after the newspaper problem. Things were gradually getting better. Last stop we were trimming shrubs and were supposed to remove four trees. BAM!!! Again. Dropped to the ground. Much worse this time. Barely able to walk. Go home last night, laid on the heating pad for 3 hours on the couch. Decided to get up and go to bed. No way to get to my feet. Rolled onto the floor. Now I'm really in trouble. No way to get to my feet. Ask the wife to pull on my arms to help me up. Of course, she's the meanest ***** on the planet and pulls real hard. I screamed in agony. It was so bad I started crying. Finally made it to bed and felt a little better this morning. At least I can walk. But I can't work. Just to get up out of a chair is a 90 second procedure.

Went to the doctor this afternoon. He's certain I'll need surgery. I plan to take my MRI pictures to the chiropractor tomorrow and see what he says.

I've got my steady hand out right now running my route with a Guatemalen guy. I'll have to pay the Guatemalen guy cash at the end of the day. And I have no workmans' comp on him either. My employee is driving my truck and he's got no drivers license. One serious wreck and I'm ruined financially. Same plan for tomorrow (the Guatemalan guy). If things aren't much better by Tuesday morning with my back I'll have to close down the entire business. Just not enough revenue to support two guys on a crew without me. It's either that or I finish out the season using two employees (which means very little profit for me the rest of the season) and then buy three more trucks next spring and just hope and pray that I can fill two more schedules. One two man crew with a full schedule just doesn't leave anything in terms of meaningful profit for the owner. Three crews might, but that means adding a ton of customers almost over night.

DFW Area Landscaper

09-02-2004, 07:30 PM
sorry to hear about your back. good luck on your surgery and quick recovery.

where in DFW do you run?

Up North
09-02-2004, 08:24 PM
DFW, man I'm sorry to hear that. That really sucks. I had back surgery in November of 2002 due to ruptured & herniated disk. I was brandished to the bed for a month before the surgery. IMMEDIATELY that night after the surgery it was 100% better. I actually spend 1/2 the night walking around the hospital because it felt so good to walk around without pain. Wish I had done the surgery years ago as I'd spent many $'s with the chiro, I haven't been to one since the surgery.

Anyway, good luck and hope something works out as far as the business. Any way you can shift the accounts over to someone reliable for 3 months or so, then start them up again next spring?
If you have any questions about the surgery I'll try to answer what I can.


09-02-2004, 08:31 PM
Nows the time when you need a friend or 4 in the business. I helped a guy out who had surgery a couple years ago.........did my best for him although he didn't think so. I'm really fortunate in that, if something were to happen .......... I think I could get some help to get me through.

When in biz for yourself........make all the friends you can......never know when you'll need their help.

09-02-2004, 08:59 PM
Sorry to hear your back is so bad, sure hope it gets better. At least your having some medical attention to your back and hope they can remedy. Take care of that thing, its so strange how just leaning over can screw the back up. Mine hurts sometimes if I dont work out for a little while. Just like your, I bend over to pick up a peice of trash & WHAMO. Even though Ive been picking up RR ties all day.
Sounds like your "helpers" are more like liability problems. Its hard to find good help. Im about to can one of my guys rite now for being slow and having quality issues as well, but Id be scared to death letting anyone work without workmans comp. I think I would use my down time to put into play a search for better help. Hang in there man, some how, some way, this may be a blessing in disquise if you wind up with three crews and a thriving business heavily based on your decisions you make in "survival mode".
I once worked for a guy that had a chain of gas stations after he bought one when the doctor told him he was terminally sick. He bought one as an investment to take care of his family, then ended up with seven. Guess what, he is still alive (25 years latter) and worth millions. Sure when the doctor layed it down his world came crashing down, but hes smilling today. Oh did I tell u bout his babe of a wife

09-02-2004, 09:02 PM
Dont throw in the towel. Let those guys work until you are back on your feet. At the very least you will still have a revenue base when you come back. If you feel up to it just ride with them and supervise. This might give you the sense that you are still in control of things.

09-02-2004, 09:20 PM
if you able drive truck and supervise till winter then get surgery. That would get you bout three months to recoperate.

09-02-2004, 09:21 PM
Sorry to hear that,

sometimes unfortunate things happen.

Good thing I'm in shape..

09-02-2004, 09:51 PM
Sorry to hear that mate, I can say I honestly know that pain, I am having the same probs, bloody hurts, the sudden no back strength and ya fall is scarey!

I often lose muscle strength in my arms and hands afterwards too, and legs are very weak for days after.

As I'm not a landscaper I'm not lifting things like you guys, but sitting on a ZTR all day sure doesn't help an already bad situation.

If I walk on uneven ground, or trip, bam, i'm on the ground, try and move and i think i'm gunna die. bloody wife laughs!

I'll have to get it looked at too...

As said above, try to drive and supervise until winter, if your guys have a prang ya gone if they aren't licenced.

I wish you all the best mate!

09-02-2004, 10:01 PM
I have 2 herniated discs in my lower left back (L4 & L5). It happened in 98 while mulching. After several weeks of going to a neurologist I was evaluated by a neurosurgeon and recommended surgery and therapy. I know several people that has had the surgery and most are worse than they were. Now I still have problems with it and have to be careful and it seems that the little things are what throws it out. I do know that the heating pad feels good but it is not helping you at all because it causes the blood to flow to the injured area more rapidly and ice is recommended, but if your like me an ice pack on your back while trying to rest is impossible. If I lay around when it is re injured it is way worse than if I try to move a little. Hope you can get by without surgery and you can stick with your business. I like you , don't have anyone that could run the biz. for me if I were injured for a long period of time. Good luck and chiropractors have done wonders for me.

DFW Area Landscaper
09-02-2004, 10:02 PM
I agree. Having that new guy, even on a temporary basis, is scary without workman's comp insurance. It's only temporary. I would never do business like this on a full time basis.

Really and truly, the only reason I use workmans comp is because of how easy it is to screw up your back. Sure, a guy can lose a finger pretty easily in a chipper/shredder and worse things can happen, but the busted back is the number one motivator for me to pay the premiums.

I drove by all the lawns today and they looked ok. My main guy, the employee I've had all season, is a good hand. He's great.

If the back isn't any better by Tuesday, I'll find another guy with a social security card, put him on payroll and keep him for the rest of the season. I won't make much money doing it that way, but I was pretty much planning on buying three trucks next spring, two more trailers and seeing how it goes. I think it'll work out in the end. You never know, this may turn out to be a good thing.

The back is already feeling much better today. At least I can walk around today. I'm not taking that for granted today. Last night was hell.

DFW Area Landscaper

09-02-2004, 10:05 PM
God bless you DFW, and I pray you get everything staightened out. Stick with it..

09-02-2004, 10:17 PM
Sorry to hear about the back.

I have the same problem. 3 or 4 times a year, bend the wrong way or twist and that's all she wrote! It usually puts me down for 3 days at a time. Pretty much same as you described...5 minutes to get out of bed...2 minutes to get back in. I SUGGEST LOADING UP ON IBUPROFEN NOW! I take a couple of them as frequently as the bottle says (4 or 8 hours). They help reduce SWELLING. I also take TYLENOL at the same time for the pain. Don't take all of the same, use both so you don't screw up kidneys too!

Definitely get 2nd opinion before going under the knife!

Good Luck!


gene gls
09-02-2004, 10:27 PM
Try going to a massage therapist a few times. I was in bad shape several years ago,2 times a week to the Chiorpractor. I joined a health fittness center to have acess to the steam room and the whirl pool tub just to relax my mucsels before I went to the Chiorpractor. There was a lady there that had a massage business in a small room and I said, what the heck I'll give it a try. She worked wonders on my back. That was 20 years ago. I may go for a massage a couple times a year now and one time to the Chiorpractor, just to keep in check.


09-02-2004, 10:34 PM
Good luck DFW. It sounds like difficult times but keep your chin up, and try to think positive. You'll be better in no time.

Eric 1
09-02-2004, 10:36 PM
The guy has no drivers license? i would get that fixed.

Sorry to hear about this though, it makes me realize just how venerable we are. keep your chin up. We will be praying for you.

09-02-2004, 11:59 PM
ICE - ICE - ICE!!!!! Twenty minutes with an ice pack. Put a thin towel between your skin and the pack. Do this every 2 hours for a few days. Heat causes inflammation - ice reduces it!!!!!

I have a herniated disk in my lower back that I got planting trees a few years ago. I can get bad sciatic nerve pain. The chiropractor told me if I will lay flat on the floor each morning before my feet hit the ground and pull my knees all the way to my chin a few times I will go a long way in avoiding surgery.

I used to use heat and try to stand up straight - WRONG (this was after I had to literally roll out of bed). ICE and Rolling into a ball at the first sign of trouble has greatly reduced my problems!

Envy Lawn Service
09-03-2004, 12:13 AM
Bam!.... You've just joined the crowd.... sorry...

My back went out on me 11 months ago and unfortunately I'm still suffering. I took a nasty fall and injured the bottom 7 discs. I couldn't work either. I could barely stand the trip to the doctor. Over the winter, 6 months worth of physical therapy kept me mobile but it did little else.

Now this might sound a little gay, but I had someone recommend the Winsor Palates package you will see on TV infomercials in the coming sleepless nights. It contained a lot of exercises I was doing in Physical Therapy and more. I could only physically do so much of the workout, but I did the best I could with it. Soon I was back on my feet again....

I've only been worthy of light duty all season, being very careful and protective of my back. But I have crutched my way through. I've been on a strong backslide lately though, and I'd be kidding myself if I didn't admit I'm going to have to stop and have something done about it. But I hope to make it until winter....

09-03-2004, 12:20 AM
Sorry to hear about your back, DFW. With all the obstacles you have had this year, seems like things would turn around for you soon. God bless..

09-03-2004, 12:32 AM
Sorry about your bad back DFW. It seems to be a common problem that many (including myself) can relate to. I agree with the above suggestions about ice, stretching, and a massage therapist. Those all seem to help me.

Envy Lawn Service
09-03-2004, 12:35 AM
Spare no expense in finding out the root of the problem... which may still turn out to be illusive because doctors don't like to admit it, but little is actually known and understood about the human back. So accept the fact that it may take an army of different health care providers working together to get you back on your feet. Also be prepared for the cost...

If you can find out without a doubt what the actual problem is, you have half the battle won. Submit to having MRI's and ect done. Have these done and explained to you by highly recommended, highly experienced doctors. Then accept surguery only as a last resort.

It is my opinion that once you damage an area of a healthy back, you will continue to hurt it over and over just as you describe until some sort of major change takes place. The reason being is after getting hurt you get physically weaker both structurally and muscularly with each sucessive injury. So it gets easier and easier to hurt.

Strong muscles, as in total body fitness, is the best way to maintain back health. But with an injured back it gets harder to maintain physical conditioning or get it back after being down taking care of the back. So it's a slow struggle, even if you are lucky enough to have an "instant pain relief" surgery like someone else mentioned. Taking all of this into account, you can see why the long term failure rate of back surgery is so high. Often times a well performed surgery can go bad if you don't listen and take extreme precaution until you are fully healed. Then you have to regain and maintain physical fitness once fully healed.

09-03-2004, 12:46 AM
I am sory to hear about your back. I hope you have a speedy recover and good luck with the business as well.

Fantasy Lawns
09-03-2004, 12:52 AM
This is almost the exact reason I went from "solo' to "crew"

I was blessed after 5 years to find my present foreman .... Rick your the man

Find good help, decent help or just help has to be one of the top 3 issues to running a successful business ...CASH FLOW being KING … perhaps LUCK or just Right Place Right Time running 2nd (which is parallel to “word of mouth” or customer references)

Employee issues can be a PITA

Hard too create & develop a consistent training program when behind in work and in mid summer

Hope everything works out

Envy Lawn Service
09-03-2004, 12:54 AM
Well it sounds as if no one ever educated you about the extreme importance of disability income insurance. Either that or you didn't listen to good advice. Either way it's a shame because it sure does come in handy during times like this and now it may be hard for you to obtain coverage, even after you make a full recovery. But if you, or any readers of this have the opportunity to purchase disability income insurance, please do so for your own good and the good of your family. This is not meant as a scolding towards anyone but....

Your ability to earn an income is the single most valuable asset you possess... so for gods sake insure it!!! You insure everything else...

As for handling the business during recovery... do you have any local friends in the business? Ones who you could trust to 'Sub' the work out to for a while? It's not that bad of an option and it sounds much better to me than the corner you have found yourself backed into.... Truck and equipment driven around without a license.... under the table employee not covered under workers comp....

Look, everyone here understands an man has to do whatever he has to do to survive in times like this. Personally I'd just hate to see things go from bad to worse for you. You are sticking your neck out on the chopping block right now and I'd hate to see the axe fall. So consider the sub-contracting option and explore it a bit further. It's the best option I can think of right now if you are going to be out of commission for a while, but plan to make a come back..........

Hope all I have said helps in some way...
If you have any questions or concerns at all...
Just ask... here or via PM's or e-mail...

Good Luck!

Up North
09-03-2004, 01:40 AM
Originally posted by Envy Lawn Service

It is my opinion that once you damage an area of a healthy back, you will continue to hurt it over and over just as you describe until some sort of major change takes place. The reason being is after getting hurt you get physically weaker both structurally and muscularly with each sucessive injury. So it gets easier and easier to hurt.

Strong muscles, as in total body fitness, is the best way to maintain back health. But with an injured back it gets harder to maintain physical conditioning or get it back after being down taking care of the back. So it's a slow struggle, even if you are lucky enough to have an "instant pain relief" surgery like someone else mentioned. Taking all of this into account, you can see why the long term failure rate of back surgery is so high. Often times a well performed surgery can go bad if you don't listen and take extreme precaution until you are fully healed. Then you have to regain and maintain physical fitness once fully healed.

Envy, what you say is very true. In my situation the injury became more frequent and painful each time it reocurred. I had done the chiropractor route for years up until it got to the point I was laid up. I had even done the physical therapy which helped for a short time. But a month later was laid up again eating pain killers & taking steroid therapy until I could get into surgery. My immediate pain relief was a tremendous feeling, no pain in the legs, etc. The nerve damage is still there as I have limited feeling in a couple toes but that is getting better with time. Physical therapy was very important after the surgery as well, and to this day I am very careful of how I lift things, whether it's a leaf or an 8 point buck.

Bottom line, is take care of yourself in every fashion. Whether it's your back, heart, or mind. I still need to be a LOT better at that myself but I'm working on it. Good luck DFW and hope all goes well.


Envy Lawn Service
09-03-2004, 01:55 AM

That's exactly right. The hard thing we face and many others who perform hard physical labor is this.... we are damned bull headed about physical fitness. Most of us are proud and think we are build of steel... extremely physically fit... and bad boy strong.

Truth is many of us may be strong and physically fit... but the thing we forget is the punishment we inflict on our bodies and the punishing pace in which we do it all season. There comes a point where it's not even about the lifting anymore... as is very evident here...

Eventually we arrive at a collective rundown. We just run ourselves in the ground running. Hard labor, heat stress, exhaustion, dehydration, bouncing, vibration... and the list goes on. Little by little this gains on us collectively throughout the course of the season, eventually weakening us at the core...

Then one day we bend over and BAM!!!........

09-03-2004, 04:27 AM
Sorry to hear 'bout your back DFW. I myself also have bad back problems. Don't hang yourself out to dry with the situation tho. All WILL be better soon. You'll be back, just keep your chin up!

09-03-2004, 07:58 AM
Sorry about your back mate but like someone else said, "welcome to the club"

Wait and see if its muscle or disk related. If its muscle, you'll be OK with medication. A good deep tissue massage will be good "once" your back is better and to help keep the pain away!

I try to explain to people the type of pain.... "Like a hot Philip's head screw driver getting jammed into your back," is what I use most!

I really feel for you but if its muscle, you can manage it but it will probably never be 100% again!

In the mean time get some Valium (its a muscle relaxant as well as helps sleep), anti-inflammatory, voltaran rub stuff is OK and you have to relax. I mean do as little as possible so the inflammation gos down!
I would if at all possible take some time off work! Warm packs are good to loosen muscles so get a bean one that you can microwave. When your feeling better, ask the doctor about some exercises that might help!

I've "done" my lower back about 4 or 5 times, upper back (fractured vertebra) and now I get problems with my neck(same Philip's head screw driver pain) and I manage it with medication and have done since I was 24 (36 now)

Good luck!

on edit, I didnt mean any of that to bring you down, its just that you might have to change a few things and manage the problem.
Your not the only one so take heart in that!

09-03-2004, 08:48 AM
The pain you have sounds like a pinched nerve.I went two years with that pain.No surgery.It worked itself out over time.
I was just getting out of a chair and yep,BAM!,down on my knees.Couldn't put weight on one leg at all.Appears as if the nerve runs from the back,down your leg.
I've known too many people who come out of surgery,especially back surgery,worse than they went in.So,I just lived with it.Some days good.Some bad.But after working in the heat one day(I mean real southern humid heat,not that sissy stuff you guys have up north :D),it worked out and I've been fine since.
Also,I think your matress has alot to do with it.Sleeping on an improper matress at various angles weakens your back and one wrong move is all it takes after that.I noticed that sleeping on the couch,I would wake up feeling good.That's a sure sign of a crappy matress.

09-03-2004, 12:48 PM
Have you tried those ceragem beds yet? They have changed my whole outlook on life. I was in continous pain for the past 9 years until I starting using these beds daily.


If you find you don't have a store in your area, let me know because I would sure like to make the people who have this store here happy for all the help they have given meover the past 8 weeks.

As for your labor problems, why not try a local temp. labor outfit? You tell them what you need and they will do all the rest including the paperwork.

09-03-2004, 01:52 PM
I had a herniated disc also about three years ago. When through thearpy. The very most important thing for me is to keep my hamstrings streached. I know all you tough guys won't here of this. I started to do yoga. Best possible thing I can do for my back. Got to doing so good I started to play adult soccer. Haven't had a back problem since. Mine your posture when you sit , pick up correctly,streach your hamstrings every day. Start slowly to get active again. The first time I hurt my back I crawled around on the floor for a week because I couldn't do anything else. I had brush burns on my elbows from crawling around. Good luck It will take time.

09-03-2004, 02:38 PM
Sorry to hear about yer injury. Do a google search for "formula 303". It's an herbal muscle relaxant that my chiro turned me onto a couple of years ago. I'm allergic to most pain meds and these worked fairly well. They were kida slow, I didn't start to notice the effects until about the third dose of 2 pills every 2 hours, but like I said they do work. It helps break the cycle (it hurts making the muscles tighten up making it hurt more making the muscles tighten more making.....)

That and I would straighten out the situation with the driver's license before it causes major problems.

Good luck!

09-03-2004, 03:52 PM
I have to agree with Envy. Disabiltiy insurance is were it's at. It can be got for a fair price. I just had to have knee surgery and have diabilitu ins. thru my full time job.

I get 60% of my income no tax for at least 90 days. I'll only be out for 4-5 weeks though. It will pay for itself. My wife had foot surgery and got paid for 90 days.

DFW hang in there, things will turn around.


DFW Area Landscaper
09-03-2004, 05:13 PM
My best friend sells disability insurance. If you're new in business, it simply isn't available to you. After two or three years, then yes, maybe you can buy it. But if you've only been self employed for less than two years, it can't be purchased.

As far as disability insurance is concerned, I'm uninsurable right now.

DFW Area Landscaper

09-03-2004, 06:45 PM
Good luck with this. I spent an evening watching TV stratched out on couch with feet on coffee table some years ago. Went ot get up and couldn't. Same pain your talking about. Have had b ack aches for years from working construction, thought I'd jsut tough this one out too.2 wks later broke down and hobbled into a chiropractors office for first time in my life. He took xrays, showed me the piece of twisted spaghetti that was my back. Laid me on his table, yanked me hard, rolled me over did the same and I could have kissed him. 2 wks of treatments and good as new. Happened one other time when in Seattle visiing my daughter, spent my vacation day after day in a chiro office. He got me straightened out in time to get on a plane home. Good luck, hope you don't need the surgery.

09-03-2004, 07:53 PM
for your back, hold off surgery as long as possible. You should consult with your chiropractor (and even check out other chiropractors than your own, since there are hundreds of different techniques). Also, you will want to work with a physical therapist to strengthen your core muscles, especially your back muscles, abdominals, and even your leg muscles. A lot of back problems can be set off from your hamstrings. You may want to also check to see if your boots/shoes have something to do with your back problems.

My chiropractor uses some technique that uses some sort of electronic pulce behind my ear. it somehow gets the spinal fluids excited and wala, feel great again. I haven't seen my chiropractor in a few years and think I'm ready to go back again soon for a tune up.....

good luck with your back and hang in there with your business....

Lux Lawn
09-03-2004, 08:14 PM

Good luck man it sounds like it has not been a good year for you I really hope things turn around fast for you.

09-03-2004, 10:49 PM
I also recommend the disability insurance, expensive as it is, if you dont' have a 2nd source of income or savings to tide you over. Risky not to. You risk ruin.

Although this injury was from simply bending over, this situation also serves as an example why the "mow/blow/go" strategy for solo ops is a good one. It is much easier to get hurt straining and struggling with shrubs, planting, sodding, digging, stooping over for weeds, etc, than just mowing, trimming, blowing. I know my back can tell the difference in cruising on a ZTR vs. struggling with brush, lugging sod and mulch around, or other heavy work.

In 8 hours of a work day, a solo op doing residentials might literally be sitting down fairly relaxed (on a ztr or in a truck) 5-6 of those hours, and doing physically taxing work only 2-3 (string trimming, mostly ) If you are full service I recommend leaving the tough stuff to the grunts. Maybe do the shrub work if that's what it takes to get customers. Employees are younger and have better backs, and can be spared from work a lot easier than you can if an injury occurs. And invest as much as possible in labor-saving machines. You can buy spare parts for them, unlike your body.

Some things one can do even with an injury. A broken hand or a bad back, you might still be able to sit on a mower. One reason I liked the Toro T bar mowers in the past was that I knew that if I did have one hand banged up, I could still mow with it, albeit slowly. A stick edger, properly sized for the user, might be easier to edge with than a string trimmer. A lightweight blower, though less powerful, might work better for a person with a bad back than a bigger one.

Other things, like sticking to reasonably flat yards, can help both prevent injuries and make it easier to cope with them. (try manhandling a walk behind on a steep slope with a bad back!)

If you can eventually get your back ok and stick to just mower-sitting, driving the truck, supervising, and leave the back-unfriendly work to your staff, you can probably cope with your problem. I'd invest in good seat suspension system, too. Some folks say the standers are beter for guys with back problems, too.

None of these ideas are cheap, they're downright luxurious in terms of lost time, money and productivity, but it beats sitting home in pain making nothing.

Be sure to get a 2nd opinion before surgery. BAck problems are notoriously hard to diagnose. Doctors will rarely tell you "I'm not sure" and will just present a solution (surgery) as if god told them to do it. My brother was a home builder hurt on the job, and has had 3 surgeries and his main problem now is scarring from the 1st surgery impinging on nerves. His foot now drags somewhat when he walks. He'd have been better off w/o surgery, it turned out.

And strange as it seems, a lot of new stuff has come out saying that sometimes even really severe acute back pain is more stress related than people realize. Actually even Howard Stern had a situation like that he wrote about. A situation where you could swear you had a physical problem it hurt so bad, that turned out to go away w/o surgery once the stress was resolved. It's not "made up" pain, it's real. But the body has a way of letting you know to back off when you push to hard.

I hurt my back this winter btw, probably from moving in to two different homes and lifting a stupid ramp that weighed 150 lbs. I could work, but I wasn't able to do shrub work very well, and any bending over left me in pain. It's almost 100% now, but it took 6 months. But that time was a very stressfull one for me (new city, restarting a biz, moved 2 times, bought a house, etc) so it could have been partially due to the stress. Things got more in a groove by May and the pain went away at the same time.

09-03-2004, 10:59 PM
I'm sorrry to hear about the back. I say finish ou the season and get the surgery done over the winter. Start back healthy next year. Good luck.


09-03-2004, 11:04 PM
An article on stress-induced back pain


Ken Kesey
09-03-2004, 11:23 PM
"I've got my steady hand out right now running my route with a Guatemalen guy. I'll have to pay the Guatemalen guy cash at the end of the day. And I have no workmans' comp on him either. My employee is driving my truck and he's got no drivers license. One serious wreck and I'm ruined financially."

You've got to be kidding.

Get those guys off the road and have some respect for the other drivers.

I can just see someone getting hit by your truck and trailer and having to explain to their insurance company they got hit by a loser with no license in someone else's truck with a guy who is probably an illegal alien, who both probably aren't legally employed.

What do you think would happen if the were to kill someone in an accident? Not to mention the other driver but yes, you would be financially ruined for the rest of your life.

That's a train wreck just waiting to happen.

Sorry for your bad luck and I do hope you get better soon but come on!

09-03-2004, 11:43 PM
Sorry about the back, but arent you the one writing to your congressman about others paying cash and breaking the law? It is against the law in TX to drive without a license? And why do you have to pay the other guy cash? Not an illegal is he? Or is it a situation where you go by the book unless your in a bind and dont think others are ever in that situation? I wouldnt worry about them killing someone leagl or not your screwed if that happens, but what if they get stopped for a tail light out? Going to crawl out of bed and get a ride to where they are so you can drive the truck home? And when that happens the cops will be looking for something else to ticket you for.

Turfcutters Plus
09-04-2004, 12:47 PM
That's a tough break.So sad to hear as it could happen to any of us.NEVER go without workmans comp or with an unlicenced driver!BIG mistake.Like bruce32 said,toro t-bars could be driven with one hand,i love them.I don't have disability insurance but have lots of $ put away.I've paid myself this way for a long time now.But i also have a loving wife who has a successfull business and no kids.Don't worry so much about profit right now,but keep the business going so when you recoup you'll be glad you did.Hang in there buddy,may the lord be with you!

Turf Medic
09-04-2004, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by DFW Area Landscaper
I've got my steady hand out right now running my route with a Guatemalen guy. I'll have to pay the Guatemalen guy cash at the end of the day. And I have no workmans' comp on him either. My employee is driving my truck and he's got no drivers license. One serious wreck and I'm ruined financially. Same plan for tomorrow (the Guatemalan guy

DFW, you have my sympathy for the back problems, lower back pain can be a never ending problem. I would get to a doctor that uses accupunture along with conventional treatments.

Now on another note, of all people, I can't believe that you have illegal, and unlicensed people on the payroll. All of the complaining and griping you have done about other LCO's doing the same thing. Not only are you putting your financial future on the line for a few dollars, but you are risking the future of anyone your guy wrecks into. AMAZING, sure changed my opinion of your position on the industry.

09-04-2004, 01:08 PM
Sorry to hear about your back. Hope you get to feeling better soon.


09-04-2004, 02:30 PM
DFW I am sorry about your back and my thoughts are with you on that. But I also have to agree with the others here as you sure are talking out of both sides of your mouth now after all the complaining you have done on here about other LCO's breaking the law and being unprofessional and then you are unwise enought to flat out admit on here that you are doing the very same thing you point your finger at others for doing. That is the kind of thing that loses respect with others faster than your back went out.

As I am a retired cop you do know that you are not only liable in Civil Court if this guy hits someone while NOL but also you are Criminally Liable for Aiding and Abetting as well and Lord forbit that he kills someone cause then you'll be in the cell next to him.:(

09-05-2004, 04:31 PM
DWF - I too am sorry to hear about your back problems. But you must know by now that your trouble didn't start with bending over... bending over is just the "last straw" so to speak. You, me, and all the rest have degeneration in our spines. It comes from working hard and from aging. The trick is to pace ourselves BEFORE we come to the end.

I've had back problems over the years, and then started seeing my wife's choirpractor. At first he seemed to help, then one day, snap, my disk ruptured during a treatment. For the longest time I felt it was his fault, but he did show me my X-rays which clearly showed the degeneration was there. I was a walking time-bomb... but really, we all are.

I suggest the first thing you do is forget about going to the choirpractor. See an orthopedic specialist and talk about your options. If you continue to remain in great pain, consider having an epidural done on your spine. That will give you relief and buy you some time, like a couple of months or three. Take it easy and don't lift anything heavy or jump off anything, like with a blower on your back.

If the pain comes back, I strongly suggest you consider having the diskectomy done. It is a simple surgery and will provide relief. I have lived with my problem for two years now: the nerve problems in my legs and feet, and will go in for the diskectomy in December after my season is completed. I thought I could conquer this back problem with time, but that is a fallicy.

Get on a good anti-inflamatory and that should give you some relief, but the main thing is to limit the strain on your back right now. With a little rest you should be able to get back on your feet and at least supervise the work until winter.

Hang in there... get professional advise, and things will get better.

09-05-2004, 09:43 PM
DFW, Sorry to hear about your back. My back injury was the best thing ever to happen to my company. It gave me the time to work on the company instead of for it.

Word of advise. Chiropractors do not have a medical degree. See an osteopath, a doctor (MD) that specializes in bone and joint related issues. My back was corrected by one of my clients (Friends like to say I hobbled up the right driveway) who is an osteopathic doctor. When I said I was going to go to a chiropractor she said don't bother they may do more damage than they realize.

:blob3: you will soon be jumping in no time...

09-06-2004, 04:32 PM
I have had lower back problems for several years and their is no doctor that can tell you that you need surgery until you have an MRI. Then make sure you get at least 3 qualified people to read it and give you their findings. Some doctors want to start cutting on you before you hit the table good. I have one friend that has been operated on 7 times and he still has a lot of problems. The chiropractor that I go to has helped me more than anything, see if you can find one that has a table that stretches you disc apart and it will help a lot before he or she adjusts you. The chirpractor will be able to tell you if you need to be cut on or as my friend says you will know if you are ready to be operated on because it will be such severe pain that nothing will stop it and you will be ready to lay down and let somebody cut you open right then and there.

09-06-2004, 05:03 PM
hey DFW, when i was 17 i herniated a disk in my back. one morning i woke up, went to brush my teeth and just colapsed at the sink, my sister was the only one home, she freaked out, and sure enough, it was someting major. at least you went to a real doctor first, i went to TexMedClinic and they kept telling me it was my muscles and stuff, and finally i went to a true back doctor and they figured it out. i was only 17, i'm 21 now, and my back is pretty strong, you just gotta take it slow the first couple months. i refused surgery, and i'm doing okay. still some pain, but you'll get use to it.

guys, DFW is in serious pain, he has a messed up back and all you can do is critisize him on his hipocracy. do what you gotta do DFW, maybe when your back feels better, you can drive the guys around. it'll work out, you just gotta do a little at a time.

good luck with the rest of the year.

Turf Medic
09-06-2004, 05:13 PM
guys, DFW is in serious pain, he has a messed up back and all you can do is critisize him on his hipocracy. do what you gotta do DFW, maybe when your back feels better, you can drive the guys around. it'll work out, you just gotta do a little at a time.

good luck with the rest of the year.

First of all I sent my sympathies for the back problems, but everyone works with challenges, be it physical, mental, or financial. If you read DFW's posts he is very quick to condem people that don't run their business in a legal or ethical way, usually based less on fact than on his assumptions. Very quick to judge others that have done what he is doing now, maybe they have been working with "do what you gotta do". One thing to do what you gotta do and another to broadcast it looking for sympathy. JMO

09-06-2004, 08:50 PM
I definitely recommend yoga for anyone prone to back strains. The more limber you are, the better. Stretching your hamstrings regularly will help give your back some extra flexibility. Strong abdominal muscles also help to support your back. I used to throw my back out about once a year but since I've been doing exercises I've been ok. You still have to be careful how you lift things, though.

The interesting thing about yoga is that you feel LESS fatigued after you get done with the stretches. Some nights I feel like I'm just too tired to do it but if I force myself, I know I'll feel better when I'm done.

09-08-2004, 08:03 AM
DFW, Sorry to hear about your injury. As I think you know, I am in your immediate area. If there is any way I can help you out, let me know. Good luck...