Natural stone retaining wall pics

[D Felix]

Just wanted to post some pics of a stone wall we did this summer. It was the first time I'd used natural stone with the company I work for now; it was also the first time I'd used it in several years.

Some before pictures to get it all started...

These were taken back in March when we first met with the clients. The work was not done until June/July so there'll be more leaves on the trees in later pics.:D

Sorry about the quality of some of these, I was still getting used to the way the digital camera works back then....

Dan

[D Felix]

As you can see, the existing "wall", if you will, was a bunch of chunks of logs that were placed along the driveway. They obviously were no longer looking decent.

The challenge for us was deciding how to do the job. We knew they wanted walls, but all we had done to that point was SRW's. The driveway is basically a terrace, we would have been installing the wall on the left side of the drive with the back of the block visible. That didn't sit well with us, so we decided to use the natural wall stone.

Figured out later that we could have used block, and installed some 9x9 (or similiar, large sized) pavers along the back of the wall, kind of as a "stand up" edge.:rolleyes:

I think it turned out fine, though. Those pics are coming.....

This is the left side of the driveway.


Dan

[i_plant_art]

where are the pics?

[D Felix]

Forgot to attach the pic. Sorry.

I_plant- be patient, I've got several more!


Dan

[D Felix]

This is the top end of the driveway, right side.


Dan

[D Felix]

This is the same side, looking down the hill. Should be a little clearer picture.


Dan

[D Felix]

This picture is from one of the last days we were there. I think it may actually be from the last day, before we had it all cleaned up and finished. That was a long day.:)

This is the right side, taken from the end of the driveway.

[D Felix]

Top end of the driveway, right side. We hope to be able to do some plantings for them next year sometime. First priority is to hide the #$%^# d*mn propane tank!:)


Dan

[D Felix]

Here's one of my ugly a$$, making some "modifications" to a stone. Sometimes you have to "persuade" them to fit like you want to.

Every once in a GREAT while, you get lucky and they just slide right in like OJ's hand in an unshrunk Isotoner.........:)


Dan

[D Felix]

This is after we finished. Right side, bottom of the driveway.

Like I said before, it was a long day. We finished loading everything as it was getting dark. And that was the middle of July!

We still need to get back to take some better "after" pictures, but this one and a couple more will have to do for now.


Dan

[D Felix]

This is the bottom of the driveway, left side.

This side was especially a b*tch, we ended up stepping the stones down with almost every stone. Yes, I said stepping them DOWN, not UP. More on that later....


Dan

[D Felix]

Picture of both sides from the bottom.


Dan

[D Felix]

Last picture until we get better "after" shots.

Different angle of both sides from the bottom of the drive.


Dan

[D Felix]

Dammit! I hate when I do that. Forgot to attach the pic again!

Here it is:

[D Felix]

Ok, now, I'll summarize the job a bit....

I don't think we made any money on this job. At best we probably broke even. The main reason for this is difficulties with suppliers.

The first supplier we went with, brought us 7 tons, about 1/2 of it was of usuable size. Turned out the quarry he gets it from changed up on him and no longer allowed him to be selective about what he got.... On to supplier #2..........

Supplier #2, for those of you in Indiana, was Stone Center. This is their "Indian Hill" stone, it's also known as Greene County and probably a few other names. Stone Center has a trademark on the Indian Hill name, but it all comes out of the same hole in the ground...... Anyway, we ordered 21 tons from them, told them the minimum size we were looking for (5-7" thick, 12-18" wide x 18-30" long). They said, "no problem, we'll sort through the pile and get you what you need". Fine. Tri-axle shows up (2 hours after they said it would... But that's another story), climb up on top to take a look. About 1/2 of what I was seeing looked small, but if the whole truck was mixed like the top was, we figured we'd be OK. Yeah, right. As the truck was dumping, I knew we were screwed with that load........... I'd be surprised if 1/3 of the load was the minimum size we asked for. As a matter of fact, probably better than half of the wall was built with stones that DID NOT meet the specs we asked for......

Ended up working with Stone Center to get the stones we needed. I went over and hand sorted through the pile and pulled out almost 3 tons of stone that was the appropriate size to finish up the walls. They delievered that stone and we palletized the stone from the original load that was too small for us and took it back. They took back around 5 tons and gave us a refund. And we left probably 3-4 tons of small stuff for the homeowners to use.....

Yes, we ordered too much tonnage-wise, but had they brought what we asked, we would have had plenty.....

Anyway, we quickly figured out that the next time we will go directly to the supplier, whoever it is, and sort through the piles ourselves. The stone will be palletized and delivered that way. And we won't schedule any rental equipment to be on-site until at least 2 days after the stone is delivered. That was part of our problem here, we had a Bobcat 331 mini-ex sitting for several days because we were waiting on delivery of the stone....

We are happy with the way the walls turned out. We will eventually get some better pictures, and when we do, I'll resurrect this thread!


Dan

[blafleur]

Man, I learned about hand picking stone the same way. In fact I've have had to delay jobs because the suppliers just plain didnt have what I wanted. There are so many more potential glitches in dealing with natural stone than precast. But as your pics show, it looks awsome.

What kind of base did you set the stone on? Is the stone dry in between stones are did you use adhesive or mortar? Again, it sure looks good.

Bryan

[D Felix]

I just realized I didn't elaborate on the stepping down aspect....

Yes the stones are all dry stacked. No mortar.

Shimming was done a little as possible, and wherever it was necessary, the shims were put in from the back. Shims were usually little fragments of the stones themselves. Occasionally we had no choice but to put a shim in from the front, and I'm sure they will work their way out....

Base for the walls was crushed gravel. The more "irregular" stones went on the bottom (base) course as much as possible. By irregular, I mean stones that really had only one good, flat side, stones that would not work in the middle courses.

We were unsure at the start where the walls would eventually end at the bottom of the driveway. Therefore, we worked backwards from how we would normally do it. We started at the top and worked down. That is the reason for stepping the end stones down, not up. A royal PITA, but there was no other good alternative.


Dan

[drsogr]

That looks pretty good D Felix. Around Certain parts of Kansas you can drive down the sides of dirt roads and find rock that looks like that, althought its not that large! Here is a picture of the bed I did around my own house, rock was free of charge! Could look better, but for the price, I am not complaining.

Derek

[D Felix]

That rock was ~$150/ton, OUR cost.... The supplier could probably charge $200/ton and still do fine, they can hardly keep decent sized stuff in stock as it is...... Which was part of our problem!


Dan

[Ken Kesey]

Looks good.

What kind of back fill did you use and how did you install it?

[D Felix]

The backfill on the left side of the drive was 100% crushed gravel. Some of the lower courses on the right side, especially towards the top where there is more batter, have crushed gravel as well to provide a more stable base for the course(s) above. Other areas simply have soil as the backfill.

The walls were built pretty much as a freestanding wall with some batter, then backfilled.

Drainage should NOT be an issue here, there is plenty of room for water to come through the walls, plus at the highest point on either wall, they are ~2' tall. Not enough to worry about!:)


Dan

[Ken Kesey]

Did you use any pipes?

[D Felix]

None at all.

Like I said, drainage should not be an issue with these walls. I'm usually pretty anal about drainage, but I'm not worried about it at all here.

Had the walls been SRW's, even at that hieght, yes I would be worried with nothing behind them. But there are plenty of gaps in between courses for water to come through the wall. If there is any build up at all, I'd be VERY surprised.


Dan

[akerr]

dan, i feel your pain on "hand collecting" rocks. i live below the blue ridge mountains in virginia and have done numerous stone jobs with my employer. on every stone project we hand collect the stones from the mountians. in 1996 there was a huge flood in our area and it washed a side of a ridge down. it filled farmers fields with stones. the government gave the farmers federal relief money to clear the stones out of there field. my boss is friends with a farmer who lived at the epicenter of the flood, so when we have a stone job we go into these huge piles of stones that were cleared out of the fields and collect rocks. the guy has so many rocks that he sell tandem loads to Luck Stone, the main aggregate dealer in the virginia area. stone work is fun but you found out you have to be involved in the whole process to get the product you want. hand selecting insure you are getting the right stone for the project.

[GreenMonster]

Hey Dan, looks like you're getting your feet wet on natural stone? Are you guys gonna continue to offer natural stone.

I love the look of nicely build stone walls, but you gotta love working with SRW block. No pickin' thru the pile to find the right ones. They're stacked right on the pallet, and they're all the same! :)

btw, looks good (except for the pic with you :D )

[TerraVenture]

I don't know about indiana but here in new hampshire stone is abundant however unless you want to do a lot of chiseling most walls are built from imported stone. Native stone tends to be more spherical than flat. Walls can be built with the stuff but it takes more of an artist than the imported stone. The stone suppliers around here only sell palletized stone. Most new developments use large boulders that were left over from the site excavation. These walls a crude at best because they were built by excavators not landscapers. I prefer natural stone walls over manufactured. However most of my clients cringe when they see the quote for natural stone walls.