Rtf

[usg2949]

Curious to know if anyone has used RFT Fescue. I heard it on a local Kansas City radio gardening show and they were talking highly about it. It sounds like a good product but wasn’t for sure about the success ratio.

http://www.aboutrtf.com/aboutrtf.html

[Hamons]

Good ole Toby Tobin

Much of waht he spouts is snake oil. Hummert Fertilizer -- junk. But -- some of what he spout si s good. Problem is -- he is sucha great salesamn -- it all sounds so good.

I have used Rhizatomous Fescue in my seed blend for the last three years. i use a particualr strain called Grande. I have had excellent result s-- and the rhizomes are difinetly noticeable and the grass does recover and become more full than normal fescues.The only problem with RTF berand rhizatomous Fescue is that it is overpriced. Over $2.00/bag at most nurseries. You might check with Scott stanley at Prosurce one about the Definace blend of seed with Grande.

[usg2949]

Thanks for the reply, I will call Scott. Can you tell me what location he is located at? Your right Toby is one heck of a sales person. Also, do you think it would be ok to apply RFT alone and not mixing another seed to the app. I am about to reseed my bluegrass lawn and I want make sure I am not waisting money or have a discolored lawn.

[Hamons]

After looking furterh at the post you have posted it appears you are a homowner and not needing to buy lots of seed. Prosource one would not be aviable opportunity for you if that was the case -- they sell the seed by the ton.

You will probably be limited to off the shelf products. The one RTF I know of sold at most tnurseriesis called watersaver. It is expnsive -- but I'm sure wotrth it. If you are seeding only one yard -- the price difference would not be all that dramtic. You could also go to Lesco in Olathe and use their transition blend. It uses Padre TTF and I beleive that has some rhizatomous qualities. I don't have any direct expereince with it for the last couple years though.

[turfsurfer]

Ohio State University has done several research test plots with these new fescues over the last couple years. Their findings are that there is some rhizome activity (about 10-15%), but nowhere near the up to 90% claimed in advertisements. Some cultivars tested were Titan Ltd., Grande 2, and Scott's winter active fescue. I do like the turf type tall fescues and look to see future improvements on this front.

[Smith Seed]

The Grasspad now carries Titan Ltd. (www.TitanLimited.com). They have multiple locations:

Grass Pad Warehouse - Olathe, KS
425 N Rawhide Dr. (I-35 & Santa Fe)
913-764-4100 or 800-922-4100

Grass Pad - Lee's Summit, MO
1711 NE Rice Rd (291 Hwy & Colbern Rd)
816-525-8885

Grass Pad - Barry Road KCMO
11500 NW Barry Rd (3 mi. West of I-29 on Barry Rd)
816-891-9100

Grass Pad - Stilwell, KS
8160 W. 199th Street(Hwy 69 & 199th)
913-681-8948

Grass Pad - St Joe, MO (At the Old Mill)
805 S. 36th Street (1 block West of Belt Hwy)
816-279-7434

[kickin sum grass]

are we to assume these RTF's are going to be a thatch nightmare like the blues?

[All Season Bill]

You know what Kickin? You brought up a good point. I have a feeling it IS going to be a thatchy nightmare.

I've tried finding the seed and its only packaged in small bags for the home owner. I know of no major supplier that carries it in larger quanities.

Has anyone talk to their local extension agent about rtf yet?

[leejp]

You know what Kickin? You brought up a good point. I have a feeling it IS going to be a thatchy nightmare.

I've tried finding the seed and its only packaged in small bags for the home owner. I know of no major supplier that carries it in larger quanities.


http://www.athensseed.com/catalog/grassseed.html

I bought 200#s last Fall and the shipping was very reasonable to NY. Sure beats Home Depot or local garden center prices.

It really didn't mature enough for me to pass strong judgement but I like it so far. It's not that deep lush green or finely bladed as Kentucky Blue that's popular around here (I'm in upstate, NY) but Kentucky Blue is pretty much brown around here in July/August unless one waters heavily. So if it's hardier and I can live with the looks (we'll see this year), thums up for me.

Oh... I rented a Billygoat slit seeder to overseed. I highly recommend that anyone overseeding rent one as well.

[vegomatic40]

Grande, Watersaver and a few other RTF cultivars have been on the market for years now and none seem to live up to the hype. I've done numerous test plots and seen nothing that impressive yet. Some I treated with pre-emergents after maturity (Barricade, Dimension,Pendimethalin) some I did not. Could not see a appreciable difference in rhizomes and believe me, thatch would be the least of my concerns. While these conditions do not replicate laboratory conditions, my customers lawns don't either.

[just1rc]

Good ole Toby Tobin

Much of waht he spouts is snake oil. Hummert Fertilizer -- junk. But -- some of what he spout si s good. Problem is -- he is sucha great salesamn -- it all sounds so good.

I have used Rhizatomous Fescue in my seed blend for the last three years. i use a particualr strain called Grande. I have had excellent result s-- and the rhizomes are difinetly noticeable and the grass does recover and become more full than normal fescues.The only problem with RTF berand rhizatomous Fescue is that it is overpriced. Over $2.00/bag at most nurseries. You might check with Scott stanley at Prosurce one about the Definace blend of seed with Grande.

I, have been using Hummert Fertilizer for about the last 6-years and I have had the best looking lawn on the block every year. I have used other brands and still have not had the results that I have had with the Hummert. If you follow the instructions and water properly, you can't go wrong. I have also had great results with the Barenbrug Advantage Turf Saver RTF Followed by the rite applications of Earthrite. It's kinda like when you go to buy a car, some people like Fords and some people like GM's. they both make a good product but It comes down to whatever works for you and your situation. Every lawn is different.

[LonniesLawns]

Regarding Hummert -- you're right -- Nothing wrong with it. But it is way overpriced junk fertilizer.

It all comes down to the analysis with fertilizer. Hummerts is just low grade basic fertilizer which uses urea, and muriate of potash as thier prime compnents. For slow release they use uflexx and scu. Heres the kicker -- even at wholesale pallet prices they ask for $18 - 22 a bag. That fertilizer should be priced at right about $10 based on its compnents.

There is NOTHING special about hummert that you won't find in other fertilizers.

Using Hummert fertilizer would be fine when you are maintaining 1 lawn -- but not a good choice if youa re mainaining 100's like the pros do.

[Mscotrid]

Until there is NTEP or reputable University data the RTF issue is mainly a advertising ploy. Currently the concept is there but everything I have seen and read questions the quality of tissue coming off the runners. Some might see some positive results but the majority of the RTF is a few years out.

Remember the old adage "I must have grubs because moles are terrorizing my lawn." In reality moles prefer earth worms but the public was sold insecticide to control grubs.

[tremor]

I had a chance this summer to see some RTF sod fields in southern Mass. We're just starting to cut some of those fields. Is the jury still out on the rhizomes? That depends on who you ask & where they've looked.

You're not going to buy straight RTF seed as a mono-culture so the naysayers might want to hold their words for now. Barenbrug won't sell their patented Labyrinth by itself. The contracted sod growers can buy & plant up to 60% Labyrinth but the blended seed I'm allowed to sell (Water Saver) is only 40% Labyrtinth RTF. The rest of the blend is conventional TTTF.

Here is what I do know from first hand observation.

>> No rhizomes will be produced by RTF for the first 12-16 months.

>> Labyrinth does produce rhizomes once it's darned good & ready.

>> RTF sod knits FAST. Less than a week under good conditions.

>> Because sod growers here in the Northeast are a conservative lot, most are still adding 10-20% Bluegrass to the RTF fields. So at harvest the only visible rhizomes are Pratensis.

>> Barenbrug is holding their Labyrinth cards close to keep seed thieves from stealing their intellectual property. Why?

>> A lot of the so called "RTF" out there isn't RTF at all. It is the result of unscrupulous seed hawks who are trying to capitalize on what may some day be a nice wave to ride on.

I don't think that RTF will ever become the thatch producer that KBG is. Poa Pratensis tends to build excessive fine roots ever spring. Then as soil temperatures rise into the 70's it sheds the superfluous roots. This leads to the steady annual buildup of thatch. Tall Fescue isn't stressed by warm soil like KBG hence there is no annual root shed. I have no evidence of this & it could just be wishful thinking.

Time will tell as it always does.

[turfsolutions]

I've used Defiance and Defiance Plus the past 2 years on my props and have seen good results. Rhizomes or not it stood up well to the tests of the seasons and it looks great. I got a great price on it, thanks to a buddy, so I paid less than I would have trying the same old TF I would have been using. Marketing scheme or not, I will keep using it. Whether it creates a thatch problem or not remains to be seen. But I don't see it as a problem if I am getting paid to dethatch or apply products that break down thatch.

[gotoindiegardencenters]

this is a little out of date but I thought id reply. hummert is actually a great fertilizer! there is a program to use the various steps and if you do you will have the best lawn on the block.
rtf is no longer available do to a massive crop failure.
toby tobin promotes only what he is paid to promote. he is mostly full of bad ideas and his ego is bigger than most buildings. I speak from personal experience. I ccould fill a book with his mistakes.

[Hamons]

What is great about Hummer fertilizer?

[cod8825]

Jeff:

Its great because Toby Tobin said it was great and the great Toby could not be wrong. I had to spend almost twenty minutes debunking a prospective client about Toby's theories.

Matt