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s and s mowing
10-10-2004, 09:38 PM
i already use opti 2 for my redmax stuff and love it,but i wanting info on the 4 cycle oil.my exmark has 100 hr on it and im gonna do the full service on it myself,good way to spend a couple cold nights in shop and drink a few(pepsi).i did a seach and not too many guys use the opti 4 so i need the info.

65hoss
10-11-2004, 12:07 AM
I ran opti 4 in all motors for several years. Its been great. I switched to Rotella in the new lazer. If I ever changed from Rotella, I would only go back to Opti. All other motors get Opti 4.

out4now
10-11-2004, 12:40 AM
They still make Rotella? That's the Shell product right? Haven't seen it in years.

65hoss
10-11-2004, 01:12 AM
They still make Rotella? That's the Shell product right? Haven't seen it in years.
Sure, its the main diesel and heavy duty oil still on the market. I get it by the case at Sam's.

Old Red
10-11-2004, 08:26 AM
I ran opti 4 in all motors for several years. Its been great. I switched to Rotella in the new lazer. If I ever changed from Rotella, I would only go back to Opti. All other motors get Opti 4.

Hoss, Do you now use Rotella in all your 4strokes or just the lazer?

Old Red
10-11-2004, 08:27 AM
I read your message again, "all other motors get Opti 4". Duh, my wife says I never pay attention.

s and s mowing
10-11-2004, 07:33 PM
which rotella you use hoss,i seen 15 40 and 5 40 syn at wall mart tonite.also kohler calls for 10 30,is the 15 40 alright.im also a big lucas fan,and they have the new syn oil stablixer out now,what you think about it.

65hoss
10-11-2004, 09:59 PM
I run the regular Shell Rotella T 15w-40.
Some Lucas stuff is ok, don't know about that.
We have been running the Rotella in a new 20 kohler all summer. Works great. The extra additives actually quiet a kohler down.

MisterLandscape
10-12-2004, 05:16 PM
which rotella you use hoss,i seen 15 40 and 5 40 syn at wall mart tonite.also kohler calls for 10 30,is the 15 40 alright.im also a big lucas fan,and they have the new syn oil stablixer out now,what you think about it.


I don't mean to get all on a soap box but don't run stuff thats not reccomened! I am a dealer and I promise you this, if you have a major engine failure under warranty most manufactures will require your old engine shipped to them before aprroving a new engine. They will do a test of the oil and look for additives and wrong oil being used in the engine. If they find you have not used the spec oil they WILL reject the warranty claim for the new engine. They are not going to approve a $1,800 or whatever engine job unless they have to. I had it happen not 3 weeks ago on a 24hp Honda. Lucky for the guy we sell alot of machines and ZTR manufacturer forced Honda to give him a new engine but they didn't have to becasue he was running an oil additive in the engine that made the oil so thick that it caused damage to the engine. Engine had oil starvation becasue the oil was so thick it couldnt get to the top of the engine and suffered major damage.

Read the engine instruction book most say specifically not to use any additives in the engine. Also, dont think if you have a failure that you can just put new oil in the engine and change the filter. Alot of LCOs think us dealers are idiots but an oil analasis performed by the OEM will detect weather the oil has been run in that motor and you will be able to scrape sluge from the pan and see if it matches whats in the crank case. Don't get me wrong as a dealer we will put as much pressure on the engine manufaturer to get a customers product warrantied but just realize they are not obligated to warranty somthing unless it is run exactly as stated in the owners manual. So the answer is no to additives. (For some of the folks on the other thread that keep saying dealers are idots and they know more than the dealer, I'd like to know why you now think you know more than the engineers that designed the thing to begin with.) If there was a "majic potion" you could add to an engine and make it last longer and get better peformance don't you think Kawi or Kohler or Honda or whoever would be the first to jump on the band wagon and offer it to you at a price??

steve

65hoss
10-13-2004, 08:22 AM
Steve, I would highly suggest you leave your irritation of another thread in that thread. No need to bring the attitude into this one.

What additives are you complaining about? The Lucas or the Rotella with better additive packages in the oil?

MisterLandscape
10-13-2004, 08:43 AM
I can't say it anymore plainly...DO NOT add anyhting to your oil and run exactly what is reccomended. The engine manufactures have done thousands and thousands of hours of tests. They know what their engines need for proper performance.

65hoss
10-13-2004, 08:48 AM
You didn't answer my question.
Which additives are you talking about?
A. Lucas
B. Shell Rotella Oil

Can't be anymore plain. haha.

MisterLandscape
10-13-2004, 09:40 AM
You didn't answer my question.
Which additives are you talking about?
A. Lucas
B. Shell Rotella Oil

Can't be anymore plain. haha.


I'm talking about ALL additives, all of them, none are reccomended by the OEM.

A L L of them

65hoss
10-13-2004, 02:10 PM
I'm talking about ALL additives, all of them, none are reccomended by the OEM.

A L L of them
Ok, you still haven't answered my question. So let me help out. The Lucas product he was talking about is a true additive.

Shell Rotella is an oil. Rated with all other oils as for gas and/or diesel motors. It is motor oil. All oils have additive packages in them. Mobil 1, Shell, Castrol, Motorcraft, Kohler, Briggs, Kawi, Opti-4, etc. Every different mfg puts their additive packages in the oil. That is the additive package I'm talking about. Not some off the shelf additive.

Opti-4 is a motor oil. Not an additive.

I agree, most if not all off the shelf oil treatment/additives are not very good and should be avoided.

Envy Lawn Service
10-13-2004, 03:42 PM
What do you guys think Kawasaki 4 Cycle Oil is? Yeah that one that doubles your warranty... Opti-4

But that warranty deal is a crock and the cost of the oil is way too much on the Opti-4. I did the math for someone once before and it just made more practical sense to bank the extra money for an entire replacement engine.

As far as the new diesel oils... 15w40 & 5w40 synthetic... I can give a long term testimonial to there quality. Superb oil for hot running hard working engines, and that's just a FACT. Very very few synthetic or conventional oils will stand up to what they MUST and that's another FACT. Even Mobil 1 has finally admitted to such and developed their own 5w40 synthetic to have somethng to compete with this class of oil.

So this is something I have to weigh personally now with the new Kawasaki. I think they only recommend 10w30... While I don't personally see a problem, Kawasaki might if I ever had a problem.

MisterLandscape
10-13-2004, 04:49 PM
Bravo, thats been my whole point, Run what they suggest which is 10w30 NOT 5w40 syn

I'm aware of what Opti-4 is, Hell I sell it and make damn good money on it and yes its a waste of money and yes I tell people that but they look at me at the cash register and think im an idot when im trying to save them money so i get to laugh all the way to the bank.

I know diff oils have diff additives in them but I wrote so NOT ADD additivies meaning lucus top in stablix or whatever dont do it, all oils with the same rating are basically the same use what you want but sont put 5W40 rotella or 15w140w rotella or whatever ina engine that says to run 10w30 in it.

65hoss
10-13-2004, 05:11 PM
Bravo, thats been my whole point, Run what they suggest which is 10w30 NOT 5w40 syn

I'm aware of what Opti-4 is, Hell I sell it and make damn good money on it and yes its a waste of money and yes I tell people that but they look at me at the cash register and think im an idot when im trying to save them money so i get to laugh all the way to the bank.

I know diff oils have diff additives in them but I wrote so NOT ADD additivies meaning lucus top in stablix or whatever dont do it, all oils with the same rating are basically the same use what you want but sont put 5W40 rotella or 15w140w rotella or whatever ina engine that says to run 10w30 in it.

Go back and look at the mfg info. It has a temp rating. Above a certain temp use a 40w. I guess you can say I am using what they say. 30w isn't perfect all the time.

Envy Lawn Service
10-13-2004, 10:27 PM
Go back and look at the mfg info. It has a temp rating. Above a certain temp use a 40w. I guess you can say I am using what they say. 30w isn't perfect all the time.
Yup... and from this copy from a Kawasaki manual we will explore just why it is we get such good service from the Rotella and other diesel oils, aside from the formulation. I'll be back...

MisterLandscape
10-14-2004, 08:56 AM
Yup... and from this copy from a Kawasaki manual we will explore just why it is we get such good service from the Rotella and other diesel oils, aside from the formulation. I'll be back...


I don't see 15w40 or 5w40 synthetic on the list...a i missing somthing, the post was talking about adding 15w40 not straight 40W...there is a difference.

Envy Lawn Service
10-14-2004, 10:20 PM
I don't see 15w40 or 5w40 synthetic on the list...a i missing somthing, the post was talking about adding 15w40 not straight 40W...there is a difference.
I'll get around to typing this up to point out what you are missing...

Envy Lawn Service
10-14-2004, 11:05 PM
OK... Now, let's translate the wording and info from the chart I posted without getting way out there technical and confusing. In other words lets translate what this means, rather than just accepting it at face value, a MFG recommendation...

Let's start with the API classification. This is ever changing. Sure you want to check the oil bottle, but most meet and/or exceed those classifications. The Diesel/Gas oils mentioned meet and far exceed them... as in SL (gas) and CH4 or CI4 which is a higher classification many diesel oils must meet for use in certain newer higher stressed diesel engines.

Now... lets start at the top of the chart with SAE40. This is not a mulit-grade oil because it is not 'W' rated for 'W'inter use. As you can see it's suitable for high temp use, but not at cold cranking temps below 68F in the morning. Same deal with SAE30. It's temp range is 32F to roughly 95F. So while it can be used above freezing and is used a great deal, we ca see by the chart it might not withstand the high temps SAE40 can. However, this chart says nothing of the flash point and viscosity index of either oil. But that discussion is for another time. I just wouldn't put either of these oils in my engines.

Moving on to the 'W'inter rated oils, 10w30 & 10w40. Both are multi-grade oils and both are winter rated for cold cranking temps down to -4F and up to roughly 95F.... 10w30 being the better choice. Note how 5w20 is only rated up to 32F. This makes several points I'll hold comment on.

Now Misterlandscape pay close attention here... Let go back up to to the SAE40 reccomendation for high temps. This tells us that all engine clearances are suitable for the use of SAE40, provided the temperature is warm enough to allow cold crank flow. So what does this mean?

This is where 10w40 and 15w40 as well as 5w40 synthetic fit nicely into the picture. Unlike the SAE40, these oils ARE 'W'inter rated. Now we have already established engine clearances are OK for SAE40 and 10w40 and they are IN the chart. So let's just pick 15w40 because there is NO 15 in the chart. Why not 15w40 too?

Now let's explore some truths as to why it's perfectly fine to use, and actually better than the SAE40 or 10w40. In basic non-technical terms 15w40, is nothing more than a multi-grade winter rated 40 oil. It carries a 15w winter rating as 10w40 carries a 10.

Here comes the simple physical explaination of 15w40 or any 'W' oil. It is a 15 Winter rated oil when cold, which contains a polymer additive package that un-coils when heated. The 40 part means that when hot, this oil will thin no more or act just like SAE40, which we have already said is OK for use. Now, ironically, SAE40 will thin down to a 15 when hot, meaning it will withstand heat better than SAE30, which also ironically thins down to a 10.

So basically with 15w40, you get an oil suitable for cold cranking at cooler temperatures, that basically remains a 15 after heating, just like SAE40. So you get the best of both worlds. So one could say that with 5w40 synthetic, you can cover the entire temperature operating range, cold cranking of 5, toughness of 40 in heat, and the benifits of Synthetic as well as the better diesel/gas additive package.

But base oil quality, additive packages, cold flow, viscosity index and the different ratings are for another posting.

Envy Lawn Service
10-14-2004, 11:21 PM
But base oil quality, additive packages, cold flow, viscosity index and the different ratings are for another posting.

Moving partially off the above quote, the moral of my last post is to explore a little bit about the oils you put in your engines. Know their specs, like you know your equipment specs before you go pouring it in.

Back to the quote... now someone is sure to pick on the 15 in 15w40, saying it's too thick or will not pump in the early winter mornings when leaf cleanups still need doing.

In thickness, the fact is, it's thinner than SAE40 or SAE30 when cold, plus it's no thicker than the SAE40 when hot. So no it's not too thick. As for the cold pumping, I have researched this and found that the actual in truth pump temps are actually equal to or lower than many 10w30 oils. But it stands up much better to the heat produced with A/C engines and has a much better additive package.

Likewise, I have found that the 15w40 and 10w30 diesel/gas oils actually closely rival much more expensive synthetic oils, while having a better additive package for working engines.

MacLawnCo
10-15-2004, 11:38 PM
Likewise, I have found that the 15w40 and 10w30 diesel/gas oils actually closely rival much more expensive synthetic oils, while having a better additive package for working engines.
Are you suggesting running 15w40 diesel oil in our A/C gas engines?

Envy Lawn Service
10-16-2004, 12:20 AM
Are you suggesting running 15w40 diesel oil in our A/C gas engines?

Mac!
Long time no see... To be honest, I'm not really suggesting anything but to get educated about oil and explore specifications. More so, what I am trying to say is if 65 Hoss and I want to run 15w40 Shell Rotella, Mobil Delvac, Chevron Delo, Synthetic Rotella 3w40 or the new Mobil 1 5w40 ect... there is no reason we can't. It shouldn't effect any warranty claims either.

Also, to make a sharp distinction, the above oils are rated for mixed fleet use. In other words they are just fine for diesel and gas engines. They just have to be tougher to stand up to today's diesel engines and extended drain periods.

green acres lawns
10-16-2004, 12:40 AM
My 1989 chevy 3/4 ton pkup(350 gas) has been running 15w/40 rotella for the last 14 years. It has 250,000+ miles on it and still climbing. Its had 2 water pumps,2 alternators, 1 distributor cap & rotor, but the engine has never been apart. When I am bushhogging, this truck/trailer and tractor gross' 6 1/2 tons. The tractor also runs 15w/40. I know this is not the same as a 2 cyl air cooled engine(I use 10w/30 mobil 1 in my mowers for its high heat qualities) but I think 15w/40 is a very good oil for all diesels and liquid cooled gas engines that run for long periods of time. Cold outside temps can put extra strain on oil pump drives during start up, so winter temps have to be taken into account.

Envy Lawn Service
10-16-2004, 12:47 AM
Thank you green acres, great post.

s and s mowing
10-25-2004, 07:56 PM
i talked to kohler today and of course they said kohler oil 10 30,but he also said mobil was great oil and he said whatever i chose use 10/30 weight oil.just passing it along,im going with mobil one 10/30.also got a new ariens 21 walkbehind with briggs intek and manaual says right in it they recomend synthetic 10/30,never seen a manual say synthetic is preferred