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MisterLandscape
10-11-2004, 02:41 PM
>>>he's never heard of running 'doubles', or Meg-mo blades, or the new Stihl backpack blowers that are due out this spring,<<<

I was going to write a post about this but since I was new to posting on the board I didn't want to upset anyone until I had popsted awhile. I just read a post about a dealer knowing less than the cutter so I thought I'd go ahead and chime in. As both a dealer and a commercial cutter I would like to say a few things.

1) running double bades: DON'T DO IT, IT VOIDS YOUR WARRANTY AND IS UNSAFE. This practice seems to be more popular outside of the Florida market as I've only had a couple of people mention it to me and only seen one customer do it (bent the shaft on his 21" $800 commercial mower and wasn't covered by warranty) Operating any machine outside its design envelope is dangerous. Dangerous to the operator, his employees and customers who may be within a distance of the machine that could be injured. To my knowelge there is not one manufacturer that reccomends or makes an aprroved system for running double blades. Hustler has designed an approved double blade system that will be available this spring. Also various companies have mulching kits that have some varation of mulching blades such as Snapper's Ninja mulching system. Just creating your own system for running doubles regardless of the results really is unsafe and puts your company at a huge liability risk (read major lawsuite)should an accident occur. More stress is placed on spindles and other components lowering their life expectancy.

2)Increasing engine RPMs: This one we see all the time. We have machines come in where the owner has increased RPMs over and above the reccomended maximum limit for that engine. There are so many bad things that can happen by doing this I don't even know where to start. Increased wear that may lead to premature engine failure, overspeed of bearing and spindles causeing early failure, overspeeding of hydro pumps and wheel motors causing failure, overspeed of the blade tip speed over and above the max designed limits--very very dangerous should a blade hit something and come apart. If you want a machine with a high blade tip speed and a faster ground speed buy a Hustler or Chopper (there may be others but those are the 2 fastest mowers that have a large market share). A machine is designed for a certain RPM and every component is made to operate at that RPM. Also, we get folks come in complaining of a problem with their machine and its really hard to track down some problems if the owner has changed the machine to operate outside of the design limits. Higher RPMS or other changes that are made by the owner make standard tests we perform to detect trouble invalid becasue we don't know what the reading should be if the pullys on the hydro pumps for example have been changed to somehting other that whan was orginally designed.

3) knowing more than the dealer about cutting: I saw a post where a commercial cutter felt her knew more than his dealer about cutting and operating the machine. I sure as heck hope the cutter does know more!!!! Thinking the dealer should know everyhting about running the machine in all circumstances and operating environments is just dead wrong. Its like expecting the mechanics at Delta Airlines to know how to fly the airplane or vice versa the pilots knowing how to work on the plane's engines. You can be a great dealer and not know everything about the commercial cutting industry. Mots of our customers don't know how to take a Kohler EFI (fuel injected) engine and perform a computer test on it, reset the throttle position sensor to its proper calibration and use a meter to check the resistance of all of the sensors and check every ground wire for continuity. (I could give 1,000 other examples from lapping Sure theres some cutters that are pretty good mechanics just like there are some dealers that know a whole lot about cutting in the field. I am both a dealer and comercial cutter and feel like I am able to help my customers in a way other dealers are not able to but I do think you can be an excellent dealer and not know everything about commercial cutting.

I had a few more things to say but I have a customer here and I need to run. I hope I havent gotton anyone too upset. Steve

ztrlvr
10-11-2004, 02:52 PM
How many RPM you talking?

25+
50+
100+
200+
300+
500+

KathysLGC
10-11-2004, 02:57 PM
There seems to be a bit of fire in this post. You seem upset at something your read. It also seems you could be a big help here by being both a dealer and operator. Shall we be seeing more in depth post from you?

Travis Followell
10-11-2004, 03:05 PM
Dixie Chopper does make a dual blade adapter for their mowers that will allow you to run double blades safely.

lasher66
10-11-2004, 03:09 PM
There have been many LCO's that have run doubles on this site (including myself) with no problems of bent shafts or anything else. I think that putting doubles on a 21" mower is over doing it anyways. Any commercial mower that is 36" and up with at least a 13hp motor shouldnt have a problem. I have been doing it for 3 yrs now, and my equipment showes no sign of wear and tear from it. Maybe the dealers should catch on to this idea and produce a mower that is considered "safe" to run these.

Lasher

txlawnking
10-11-2004, 03:21 PM
Steve, I hope you don't take this the wrong way, But allow me to look at this through a commercial cutters eyes.

1 Dixie has had their "x" blades available for a while, and I don't believe that they neccisarrily frown on the practice of running doubles.. However, I do agree that no mfgr, unless they have tested the machine for safety with doubles installed will come to your rescue if you get someone hurt running doubles..

2 Matbe if you were turning 6000 rpm's, on a piece of commercial equipment designed to cut grass. But a lot of machines as delivered, don't even turn their rated rpm's, which can often give a poor cut. A GOOD dealer, one that looks out for his customers best needs, would be checking, and correcting this before delivery of a new machine.

3 I serriously doubt that a dealer would know everything an LCO does about cutting grass. However, a dealer interested in attracting loyal customers SHOULD do everything in his power to educate themselves about the industry, to better serve their customers.. A few dealers I've dealt with in the past, seemed like they live in a vacum, totally out of touch with customers needs. While we are discussing dealers and their knowledge..
I think every dealer should at least have an excellent knowledge of their own products.. Too many times I have dealt with a dealer, and I knew more about their product than they do!! Mostly from just reading the brochure or looking on the net and doing some reaserch!! Another peeve of mine is that too many dealers/equipment sales people CAN NOT GIVE ME REASONS TO BUY THEIR PRODUCT!! They can tell me ( some times in wild lies or exaggerations ) why not to buy their competitor's product, but they don't know enough about what their product can do to tell me why I should buy it..

I could go on, but I really don't want a flame war, I'm just trying to show how this looks to some LCO's..

cgotro
10-11-2004, 04:18 PM
Well here goes my two cents. We also have a dealership and Lawn service. We use only what we sell. We also have commitments to the companys that we represent and sell their products. I can't afford to eat the cost of an engine because I raised the rpm's. I will set them where they are supposed to be. I have had people that believe that "It has to cut faster". The equipment is designed to operate at these specifications. If you need bigger, faster, better cut than move up to that mower. It will pay for it self over time.I look for quality in my cuts and we all look back at a yard when we finish and can say we did a good job. As a dealer I will talk to someone looking for a mower about how big his business is and how big he wants to be. I like to over size him a little if he can afford it, to allow him to grow. I care about these people and I have and interest in their being satified with my equipment and to let them know that I am there to serve them.If we work together we can both be successfull. I think we just need to take the time to talk to each other on a rainy day when we have time.

MisterLandscape
10-11-2004, 04:28 PM
Well here goes my two cents. We also have a dealership and Lawn service. We use only what we sell. We also have commitments to the companys that we represent and sell their products. I can't afford to eat the cost of an engine because I raised the rpm's. I will set them where they are supposed to be. I have had people that believe that "It has to cut faster". The equipment is designed to operate at these specifications. If you need bigger, faster, better cut than move up to that mower. It will pay for it self over time.I look for quality in my cuts and we all look back at a yard when we finish and can say we did a good job. As a dealer I will talk to someone looking for a mower about how big his business is and how big he wants to be. I like to over size him a little if he can afford it, to allow him to grow. I care about these people and I have and interest in their being satified with my equipment and to let them know that I am there to serve them.If we work together we can both be successfull. I think we just need to take the time to talk to each other on a rainy day when we have time.

Thank you for your post and I think you did a better job than me expressing our beliefs. I did not mean for my post to seem mean or "fired up" but I really think it unwise to use machine outside the desing specifications. Thank you

stizostedion_vitreum
10-11-2004, 04:55 PM
thanks to all who posted on this topic.... this is a little off topic but it hit me right away because it's something that FIRES ME UP!

I run a couple different businesses in both retail and service sectors....one thing that gets me fired up in all of them are businesses that try to be both a supplier and an operator/service all within the same industry (non-compete.) None of the businesses that I associate with overlap one another in the same industry.

I would have an awful hard time buying equipment/product from someone I'm also competing with on the service side, within the same industry.

It's difficult enough competing with those that are on a level playing field let alone those that are wholesaling and selling to themselves, called two stepping. I DON'T support them and wish the rest of the competition understood (which most do) this poor practice.

Yea, I know i'm gonna hear it....so let er' go---- just giving my .02

tj

Richard Martin
10-11-2004, 05:06 PM
running double bades[/B]: DON'T DO IT, IT VOIDS YOUR WARRANTY AND IS UNSAFE. To my knowelge there is not one manufacturer that reccomends or makes an aprroved system for running double blades. Hustler has designed an approved double blade system that will be available this spring.

1: Dixie Chopper has been making a double blade bracket for years on end. They are and have been approved for use on Dixies both with and without the bracket. Dixie also has an X blade arrangement that doesn't use the bracket.

2: Gravely sells double blade setups for their walkbehinds.

3: Exmark does not approve of the use of doubles but have also said (on their forum here) that doubles don't void the mower warranty. They said that any part that they deem is damaged by doubles will be denied warranty coverage.

4: Hustler is pretty much the same deal as Exmark I believe. I am sure their rep will chime in here and give the specifics.

mcclureandson was right, you dealers don't know squat.

ScCo
10-11-2004, 05:09 PM
guess it depends on the manufacturer and how much confidence they have in the parts they design their machines to be assembled with, but they're are many manufacturers that don't void warranties over running double blades.

We all know Dixie Chopper makes running doubles really easy for the end user. I believe hustler even says on their super walk behind adds that the high hp motors are to allow the use of double blades if the user so desires. I know I have read several times in the hustler forum where PJ has said that running doubles has no effect on the warranty.

Seems like another manufacturer on the site has said the same thing.

That said I don't have doubles on any of my machines quite yet, but that time isn't very far away.

cgotro
10-11-2004, 05:24 PM
We got in the dealership end of the business because we had to travel 20 miles to get the things we needed to run our business. We had good relationships with the dealers in that area and got good service. We have people in here everyday that we compete with. I want to have the kind of business that when a man comes here in the morning he can get everything he needs for that day (Excluding Plants). I have had people in here that I have lost jobs to and that have lost bids to us. We will eventually get out of the cutting part of the business, but we will have been there.Our area is in a rapid growth period right now so there is lots of work for all of us.

DLCS
10-11-2004, 07:13 PM
1: Dixie Chopper has been making a double blade bracket for years on end. They are and have been approved for use on Dixies both with and without the bracket. Dixie also has an X blade arrangement that doesn't use the bracket.

2: Gravely sells double blade setups for their walkbehinds.

3: Exmark does not approve of the use of doubles but have also said (on their forum here) that doubles don't void the mower warranty. They said that any part that they deem is damaged by doubles will be denied warranty coverage.

4: Hustler is pretty much the same deal as Exmark I believe. I am sure their rep will chime in here and give the specifics.

mcclureandson was right, you dealers don't know squat.


Yeh what he said...lol


I think Walker has a double bladed machine too, if I rember correctly.

65hoss
10-11-2004, 07:25 PM
As stated before, DC does. Gravely does. Exmark did in years past. Hustler has some new things coming out.
Doubles don't work on every mower and in all conditions. My experience shows me many dealers don't know much about the industry. The live in their little shops with very little real equipment experience. They usually are the last to know what is happening in the industry. For example, your comment about nobody using doubles or the new blowers. Its knowledge that is avaliable here and other places that dealers just don't seem to be as interested in knowing. Why is it that we the end users know more about what is happening in the industry than the dealers? Same info is avaliable, but one group doesn't seem to be as interested in knowing it.

Some dealers are great. Some are not. For me, its a matter of who is really dedicated to the industry as a whole. Seems that many dealers are not it touch.

txlawnking
10-11-2004, 07:48 PM
Well here goes my two cents. We also have a dealership and Lawn service. We use only what we sell. We also have commitments to the companys that we represent and sell their products. I can't afford to eat the cost of an engine because I raised the rpm's. I will set them where they are supposed to be. I have had people that believe that "It has to cut faster". The equipment is designed to operate at these specifications. If you need bigger, faster, better cut than move up to that mower. It will pay for it self over time.I look for quality in my cuts and we all look back at a yard when we finish and can say we did a good job. As a dealer I will talk to someone looking for a mower about how big his business is and how big he wants to be. I like to over size him a little if he can afford it, to allow him to grow. I care about these people and I have and interest in their being satified with my equipment and to let them know that I am there to serve them.If we work together we can both be successfull. I think we just need to take the time to talk to each other on a rainy day when we have time.



Cutting faster/being more efficient is what it's all about! Maybe someone has conditions that make it prohibitive to "move up to a bigger piece of equipment", nor would they want to. Example:
An Lco who's bulk of properties are very small residential lots, 21" or even a 32-36" machine would be ideal, almost a neccessity on a property like this. Some places are so small you spend more time turning a 48" or larger machine than you would mowing.. I'm sure you do like to "over size him if he can afford it" , although I wonder if your motive's are in the LCO's best interests..
Either way, I want employee's that work the hardest, and I'd sure expect the same from my equipment.. "Eat the cost of an engine"??? Get real.

osc
10-11-2004, 09:21 PM
Why would a commercial cutter want to buy from you when you are a competitor? If most of your sales go to homeowners then not a big deal but there's no way I'm going to buy a new mower from my competition.

But hey, you gotta make a living and I know that. If that's what it takes to crack the nut then do it.

MisterLandscape
10-12-2004, 12:01 AM
Why would a commercial cutter want to buy from you when you are a competitor? If most of your sales go to homeowners then not a big deal but there's no way I'm going to buy a new mower from my competition.

But hey, you gotta make a living and I know that. If that's what it takes to crack the nut then do it.

1) both businesses are completely separate, and i mean this to the fullest extent
2) my 5 biggest competitors are my 5 biggest customers
3) i was well respected by my competitors before i opened the dealership and was urged by them to do it
4) our service can't be equaled by ANY of the other dealers in town, usually we have same day service or at the worst next day service for our commercial customers on most things ( if need be i have techs that will come in at5am to get a commercial guy's or gal's mower back out to him for the start of the day)
5) we have a written loaner policy for commercial guys--it breaks and we can't fix it right away when you come in to the service department you get a loaner (we have pulled brand new mowers off the showroom and gassed them up for customers
6) we treat the small guys with the same respect and speed of service and prices as the big guys
7) i know the business and have knowledge that the other dealers don't and have even helped new LCOs get established tot he point of setting up quickbooks for them and helping them become a LLC or S-corp
8) I sell Hustler's which make my cutting operation so efficient if you want to have any hope of competing with me you better own one--or a few (see #1) on that note, my competeitors probably get better service because we really go out of our way to make sure there is NO crossover between the 2 companies Also, I only compete with about 5 companies in town. The type and scope of work my cutting operation does does not effect 99.9999999% of the companies in town so I in effect don't compete with them. (I actually send them business because I have no desire to get any bigger in the cutting operation and have even helped some with their bids)

That's why someone would buy from me. Plus we have a nice store with lots more in stock than the other dealers in town.

Steve

HOOLIE
10-12-2004, 12:32 AM
As far as buying equipment from a competitor, in my area there are hundreds and hundreds of LCOs, so I don't think it would hurt me at all. I wish more dealers had real field experience. If they knew a little better how we run our businesses, they could do a better job at helping us out.

There's one dealer about a half-mile from my house. I hardly ever go there. Why? Because they don't open til 9am. I'm long gone by then. By the time I get home they're already closed too. They might as well be 3 states away. Also, they rent U-Hauls from the part counter. Hate it on the rare occasion I stop in to pick up something small, and have to wait behind some guy renting a truck to take his kid to college, and I gotta stand there for 15 minutes. Its ridiculous.

Soupy
10-12-2004, 12:51 AM
I didn't read all the post, but I just wanted to mention. If my dealer was also in the lawn care business, I wouldn't buy a thing from them. Dealers get upset if you don't buy every little part from them, but they will go out and compete for your business. That is wrong :realmad:

How would you like it if your distributors sold directly to the public too. I don't think you would like that to much.


About the double blade setup. All the user has to do is take the double blades off before they take the mower in for service. I didn't know about running doubles until the Dixie Chopper dealer sold me the bracket. Does Dixie Choppers have some miracle spindles. The Dixie bracket will fit many blade setups with a 5/8 hole. So if a user is concerned about safety they could use the Dixie bracket, But I doubt that the spindles are effected. I think an electric clutch would be damaged first.

Soupy
10-12-2004, 01:29 AM
Well I went back and read through the thread. It looks like I'm not a lone on how I feel about (as another member called it) two stepping.

Most dealers in my area are real helpful. One dealer has a loaner and his parts department is open until 11:30 pm 7 days a week. But if they were two stepping I would not buy from them.

I would be afraid that a competitor would not treat me right also. I'm not implying that you guys are like this. But lets say I steel all of my dealers work, can I go to him and really be sure he has my best entrust at heart. How do I know he doesn't lie and say he doesn't have a part in stock, just to hold me up.

I just think it is a conflict of interest. I know of a big gas station/convenient store franchise in my area that use to buy wholesale from a distributor that was owned by walmart. As soon as walmart started selling gas at some stores, they stop buying from them. They have over 20 stores in the area and even though it isn't going to put the distributor out of business, it sure hurt their bottom line.

MisterLandscape
10-12-2004, 01:46 AM
My customers know me and trust me and the 2 compnaies are completey seperate with seperate employees. I just wouldnt do that. Like I said my 5 biggest competitors are my 5 biggest customers and will give a testimonial to me anyday, anytime. Also, not to sound bad but most LCOs dont and cant compete with us on the cutting side anyway as we serve a very niche market. Also, the manufacturers of the products have checks and balances on us and I just wouldnt risk my reputation and both businesses over it. How do you know your local dealer isn't lying when he says your mower needs X repair anyway? You have to trust him at some point. I don't believe people can steel business as you put it, if you loose business you need to look internally to see what you did wrong. A happy customer won't go elsewhere. Its not called 2 stepping its called vertical integration--makes sense--and happens in all sorts of industries. For example guess who Excel Hustler's biggest customer used to be until a few years ago...John Deere...they made cabs for them right next to their Hustler Zs. (only stopped becasue Hustler wanted to stop not becasue Deere wanted them to) The auto companies do it all fo the time...GM used to sell AMC 2.8V6 engines for their Jeeps back in the 80s and there are alot of other examples. I think it works really well when companies can work together and all be profitable. I buy all of my sod form one of my competitors--he has a great product at a better price (I just lost a $175,00 install to him and the difference was less than $100 in our bids) No hard feelings and I still bought a truck load of sod from him this week and will again next week. Another competitor I buy all of my floweing annuals from--I just lost a property management company with 3 peoperties to him, we had been doing their work for over 5 years and he had a better product to offer..it was an account worth about $17,000 a month. No hard feelings and he buys from me happily and I buy from him. Another competitor I sub-contract alot of landscape and grading work to. So we all work together, keep it seperate and all make money. What's the problem with that? The majority of customers that come into the dealership hve one or 2 trucks and do residential lawns. They don't want to and can't so the stuff we do so we don't really compete and the bigger guys I have done business with for years, know their kids, families ect and we keep it seperate.
Steve

alpine692003
10-12-2004, 03:45 AM
My dealer does the same thing you do..

He runs a logging business on the side, he cuts logs for people and has a contracts for CN railway and other logging companies..

His competitors are his customers!

Same situation..

Soupy
10-12-2004, 04:15 AM
The comment about steeling work was hypothetical... I agree you need to use a dealer that you trust or at least think you can trust. There are good dealers out there, and you sound like an honest one. But I bet there are more dis-honest dealers then not. I know most car mechanics are. I know most of the home owner equipment dealers in my area are crooks. Take a push mower in and they shoot some air through the carburetor and bill you for a new one.

Oldtimer
10-12-2004, 09:15 AM
From many of the posts in this thread the dealers really aren't very bright and certainly not aware of what is going on in the equipment industry. It's simply amazing how someone can cut grass for a year and know more about grounds maintenance equipment than just about everyone else on the planet.

The dealers must be the most uninformed people in the grounds maintenance industry, can't repair anything and are out to rip off their customers.

It looks like there is room for improvement here!

Oldtimer

crawdad
10-12-2004, 09:26 AM
........ To my knowelge there is not one manufacturer that reccomends or makes an aprroved system for running double blades........ I hope I havent gotton anyone too upset. Steve
Gravely has been doing it for, I'm not sure...a little while now...30 years or more, where have you been?
Crawdad

cgotro
10-12-2004, 09:27 AM
Who in the hell made you god!!!!!.I guess you are just trying to piss off people. I guess you know it all old boy. A mind is a terrable thing to waste and I can see yours had been wasted. I can see why your dealers give you a hard time I would too if I had to deal with a know it all like you.Have a good day. :)

Gravely_Man
10-12-2004, 10:27 AM
Richard nailed it on the head. Some manufactures offer double blades as an option!

Only a fool would wind up the RPM on a machine over the manufactures recommendations. That will tear the motor up in a hurry.

Most dealers don't know a lot about the equipment they sell (they should know) but I don't believe many of us think that dealers should know how to use what they sell. That is not their area....it is our's.


Gravely_Man

mcclureandson
10-12-2004, 11:03 AM
mcclureandson was right, you dealers don't know squat.[/QUOTE]

Not exactly the point of the original thread, but if the shoes fits...My intentional was to learn if other LCO's have experienced what I have - knowing more about INDUSTRY innovations, INDUSTRY eqquipment advances etc than their dealer. A dealer shouldn't operate in a bubble - most dealers I know carry a small percentage of available lines of equipment. It's like the old Ford/Chevy/Dodge thing...alot of it is personal preference. I don't want to do business with a guy who will only sell me the line he carries at the risk of hurting my business. MY dealer is a good guy and if he doesn't have the piece of gear available in his line for the type of work I'm doing he will tell me. For example, in his opinion it's hard to beat the Walker for bag-dedicated systems...he could sell me a discontinued Scag Cougar (HIS line), but he gives me the facts as he sees them, let's me decide what's right for my company. I go to my dealer for technical support, service on my gear and LASTLY sales. Any dealer not able to speak knowledgeably about not only his gear but other major competitor's won't get my business. And as far as techinique...I don't need or expect him to know more in that regard than I do...but he should know about running doubles, multi-blade systems etc and the whole slew of aftermarket gizmo's that are supposed to make our lives a whole lot easier!

MisterLandscape
10-12-2004, 05:52 PM
Running doubles in this part of Florida is unheard of and the lines that I currently carry (Hustler, Ferris, Snapper/Pro) and lines that I have previously carried (Great Dane and Bunton) never offered an approved double blade system. You will be hard pressed to find folks runnign doubles here.

Precision
10-12-2004, 06:48 PM
Running doubles is something that almost must be done in peak growth season on st. Augustine with True Green Lawn Scam clients.

I only run doubles in peak top growth season. The rest of the time I don't really need them. But If I burn a spindle a few months early but I saved 100 hours over the 3 years. Well worth it. I paid for the machine with increased efficiency.

Life is about little trade offs. I use 2 dealers. One sells Gravely Snapper commercial the other Toro and Snapper commercial. The Gravely guy knows a fair amount about using the equipment from talking with other LCO clients, but had never heard of an OCDC, never heard of running doubles, couldn't figure out how to put taller tires on my walk behind.

The Toro guy knows about OCDC and referred me to a guy who fabricates them for some of his clients. He suggests against doubles as a full time thing, but at least knows why. Figured out which rims and tires I could run to lift my maximum deck height and increase speed without having to totally redo my deck.

Guess who is getting more of my business.

environment
10-12-2004, 07:19 PM
your competitors are your clients, wow, sounds a lot like lawnsite, somewhat anyway, its always great to know you have the world on a string like that

PaulJ
10-13-2004, 01:39 AM
Some thoughts.

I think that the standard disclaimer that some (not all) manufactureres put out about double blades or sulkies or other after market add-ons is a big cop out.
The fact that I had to tell my dealer what the add-ons I wanted were and where to get them was a nusance. (but at least he did get them)
When I can go into a dalership and tell them more about a machine they sell than they can tell me is frustrating.
I don't expect them to know everything about what I do but It would be nice to here about a new product from the dealer first instead of havieng to ask them about it and getting "what's that?"
Most new things are seen here on lawnsite first. machine specs can be found from websites or slaes brochures. but to find out more we have to read lawnsite.
the dealers around here don't know what a demo is. They want you to buy before you try. or try one model and expect it to represent the whole line up.


Just some random thoughts on the supject.

sawman65
10-13-2004, 07:57 AM
i sell mowers and repair them i had my own lco in miami back in the 80's
this is something i deal with all the time.i have 10 acres to mow at my home
and 8 acres to mow at the demo grounds at the shop.
i use these mowers that i sell and i use them hard and i do know more than
most of my customers........BUT!! the customer is allways right even if they are not and this is the case most of the time.

geogunn
10-13-2004, 08:00 AM
MISTERLANDSCAPE--thank you for participating in the forum.

obviously you have something to bring to the table so thanks again.

GEO

MisterLandscape
10-13-2004, 08:45 AM
MISTERLANDSCAPE--thank you for participating in the forum.

obviously you have something to bring to the table so thanks again.

GEO


Thank you.

I really didn't mean to get everyone fired up here. Being a dealer is exptremely difficult. In fact over 40% of the power equipment dealre sin the US have closes over the last 15 years.

It takes alot of money and hard work to be able to stay open. Yes we have demos here, currently 7 machines total that we use for demos and loaners. With winter approching they will be sold down to 3 or 4. Guess who buys the demos? We do, I have to pay for all the demos we have and then plan on selling them cheaper when we are done with them. Alot of dealers just don't have the money to have demos or liek the one man said have one machien to represent a whole line.

Anyone in FL by the way? Just curious, I do aot of flying for fun and it might be neat to meet up (NOT a sales tactic just for fun)

Steve

fcl01
10-13-2004, 09:14 AM
this is a classic. i got into this industry after working in a retail enviroment for six years. it was an outdoor supply store with hunting/fishing equip. ect. quite often a customer would ask about a new thing offered by a company and if you didnt know about it, they automatically thought you were an idiot. which, anyone who's ever worked any kind of retail knows, its almost impossible to know everything about everything.

take this for example---
as a lawn care proffessional, you have 15 main pieces of equip. from 3 or 4 different manufacturers. you know alot about your equip. but not alot about somebody elses. sound fair?

now for the second part---
as a retail proffessional, such as a dealer, you carry 500 main pieces of equip. from 20 different manufacturers. its awfully hard to know everything about that many items. let alone know everything about the manufacturers you dont carry.

and with todays information superhighway, its very easy for joe shmo to hear about a new product before a dealer. manufacturers will advertise products before they've even been built. its impossible for a dealer to know how a product will perform when its not even in production yet.

sorry about the length of my post

Dan

kkat
10-13-2004, 10:31 AM
Being a dealer I have some of my custermers come back and tell me things that a certain machine can and cannot do, I don't run the eguipment day after day like you guys or run it in all types of conditions or situations like you guys do. Some of my knowledge or learning of a piece of equipment comes from talking to LCO'S

65hoss
10-13-2004, 10:39 AM
Being a dealer I have some of my custermers come back and tell me things that a certain machine can and cannot do, I don't run the eguipment day after day like you guys or run it in all types of conditions or situations like you guys do. Some of my knowledge or learning of a piece of equipment comes from talking to LCO'S

Very true. Maybe some time dealers will start taking a day off on time a year to work with an LCO to get some real world use. Seems like that would benefit them and the new customers coming in. Kinda like equipment, we research equipment to know as much as possible before we buy from you. Maybe you could work with some on day to learn from them. 2 way street that would give you a good reputation.

cgotro
10-13-2004, 10:56 AM
People are very well informed about the equipment they want to look at. They have come to your store to see if is all true. They want to know if you can give them more information to make up their mines. Having used all the equipment is very importmant to me personally. I don't claim to know everything about anything, but I can tell that person what I like and how the mower performed for me.The guy who makes his living on his machine doesn't want no bull **** from you and most of the time he can see right through that as soon as it leaves your mouth . But then again he can be very difficult to convence because a pro cutter because of the treatment he may have gotten somewhere else. I'll be the first to admit I personally have learned alot for the people who come in my store. I like it when they come in on rainy days to just shoot the bull.